In this episode, we are thrilled to welcome Dan Cockerell, a veteran leader from Disney and an exemplary figure in creating and managing thriving company cultures. Chrysandra Brunson, the host of ‘The Calling,’ explores how Dan transitioned from a liberal arts graduate to a key leader at Disney, parking cars to becoming the vice president of Magic Kingdom. Dan shares insights into his international career with Disney, his passion for diverse experiences, and the decision to embrace change and entrepreneurship later in life. Listeners will discover the importance of defining and nurturing company culture, as Dan explains how he
Welcome, everyone, to The Calling’s radio show to all the dreamers. I’m your radio host, Chrysandra Brunson, founder and CEO of The Calling. It is such an honor to be with all of you today. You know, at The Calling, we have realized that so many people are afraid to go after the dreams that God has put on their hearts. And that’s just plain wrong because… You have been given that dream, and if you’re not living it out, you are wasting it. And we know that it’s not worth dying with regret. We love to inspire, empower, and equip people to live out their true calling in life, to live in long-lasting legacy. We know that people have so much potential and we love doing this through custom programs, workshops, global conferences, and especially through this radio program to all the dreamers and having incredible guests like we do today, the one and only Dan Cottrell. Welcome.
DAN COCKERELL :
Thanks, Chrysandra. Really, really appreciate you having me on.
CHRYSANDRA :
Oh, we are so glad to have you. And you know, Dan, I apologize. I should have asked in advance. Did I say your last name? All right.
DAN COCKERELL :
Yeah. Cockerell, Cockerell, Cockerell. Right on. Yeah.
CHRYSANDRA :
I love it. Well, Dan, it is such an honor to have you on today. And we are just thrilled to be able to hear your incredible wisdom. And I think everyone would probably know your name and hear about it and say, oh, that sounds really familiar. But can you just tell our listeners a little bit more about your titles underneath your name?
DAN COCKERELL :
Sure. Well, I… I grew up mostly in Maryland, outside of Washington, D.C., and went to Boston University. I was a liberal arts major, didn’t really know what I wanted to do, and every summer was working somewhere. I waited tables at the beach one summer. I worked in an investment bank one summer, just trying different experiences. And I’d worked for Disney on the college program one summer, and I really enjoyed it. So when I graduated, I still had no idea what I wanted to do, so I figured I’d go back to Disney. and started as my first full-time job at Walt Disney World as a parking attendant at Epcot.
CHRYSANDRA :
Really?
DAN COCKERELL :
Yeah, and parking cars. And a lot of my friends said, Dan, you got your four-year degree from Boston University. What are you doing in Florida? I said, I’m going to be parking cars. But I did have a plan, though. This was in 1991. And I knew that Euro Disney, which is now called Disneyland Paris, was going to be opening the following April in 92. So I applied for an international work visa before I graduated. So when I got to Florida, not only did they hire me, but I asked Disney if I could be part of the opening team. You know, they send a big group of Americans to open these parks internationally. Really? And yeah. And so they said, yeah, you can go. You need a visa. I said, I have a visa. And so I parked cars in Florida for six months. And then on January 1st, 1992, I got on a plane and flew to France. And of course, I did what I knew how to do. I parked cars in France. That was my specialty. And it was quite an experience. I mean, just living in another country. having to figure out the language, figuring out the culture, you know, just everything is different. And everything you take for granted every single day is just upside down. And it’s exhilarating. It’s tiring. It can be frustrating, but it really pushes you and it makes you become much more humble. So I did that. We opened the park April 12th, 92. And from there, my wife, my girlfriend at the time, and I started dating. And eventually we got married in April 1993. I’d still kind of joke about it because people will listen to her interviews. She’s from France. So she still asked me after almost 30 years of marriage if I married her just to get the green card to stay in France.
DAN COCKERELL :
So I stayed over there for five years. We lived in France for five years and worked at Disney. And I was in many different jobs. About every year, I was trying a new job, parking, ticketing, food and beverage. I just wanted to keep getting experiences. I’ve learned over growing up and now in my career that diverse experiences makes you so much more flexible. It makes you more open-minded. It gives you more opportunities. And so every time I got a chance, I’d go do a different job. And everyone kept asking me, well, what do you want to do eventually? I said, well, I don’t know what I want to do, but I know if I keep trying different things, I will have more options in the future. And then in 1997, we decided to move back to the United States and we moved back to Florida. And I worked the next 21 years at Walt Disney World. So I was in parks for a while. I went back and got my MBA at night at Rollins College, the Cromer Graduate School in Florida. I hadn’t studied business in college and I thought if I’m going to be working in business, it probably is a good idea to go learn about business. So I went back eight years after I got my undergrad and got my graduate degree in business. And then I worked in resort hotels for about six years and then back to parks. And my last nine years with the company, My first vice president role was the vice president of Epcot. And then I was at Disney’s Hollywood Studios for four years. And then I finished up as the vice president of the Magic Kingdom from 2015 through 2018. And then Val and I had raised three kids and they were almost all out of the house by this time. And we started chatting about maybe doing something differently. And we talked about it for a year. And after a year, we finally made a huge decision to leave Disney and start our own company, our own consulting company, speaking company. And we’ve been doing that now for four years and are learning a ton about being entrepreneurs. And it’s kind of like we’re back to that really exciting time earlier in our careers, except this time, I think we’re a little bit wiser than we were that long ago. And We got some money in our pocket, but it’s been, it’s kind of a whole new, it’s just sort of relaunching the second half of our life and finding ways to share all the incredible experiences we’ve had with companies and individuals from all over the world on leadership, management, and most importantly, my specialty, which is how to build a great culture.
CHRYSANDRA :
Wow. Well, we’re so grateful, Dan, for your entrepreneurial heart and for your wife as well. And you both are just such a power couple of an example to everyone around the world of what it looks like to live life to the fullest. And I love that you just said that recently it’s a whole nother world because you guys are brave enough and courageous enough to do that and to dream about it and to exemplify the Disney magic in your own relationship as a couple and family and now to give that to other people and organizations through your consulting firm is just phenomenal and we’re just so excited to gleam so much wisdom from your heart So when you were a little lad, what would you say you can see looking back that you had all these seeds in your heart of that this would be your dream now that you’re living now to be this entrepreneur? Can you see looking back how that was starting to be developed in you?
DAN COCKERELL :
Gosh, you know, it’s funny. I don’t I don’t think necessarily the entrepreneurship thing was in me. I always enjoyed working in organizations that were highly structured, that were organized, that had clear expectations. I worked at when I when I was in Boston, I waited tables at a bar at the Copley Marriott. And Marriott and Disney are very similar when it comes to operations, very high standards, very specific. Everything is done with intentionality about how the guest experience happens and very high standards. So I think probably it wasn’t necessarily maybe the entrepreneurship spirit in me. It was more about probably the adventure aspect. adventure. Uh, as I grew up, my parents, you know, we moved, I think we moved 10 times before I was in fifth grade. So I was always in a new neighborhood, meeting new kids, uh, having to figure out how to connect new, new schools, uh, traveled a lot. You know, my parents were big on travel and we traveled a lot. And then after once Val and I got married, we’re, uh, We love traveling. We just love seeing the world. And I think that is probably the most important thing that drove us to making this big decision was two things that I define, freedom and simplicity. And when I say freedom, when you work in a big corporation, there’s a lot of freedom you don’t have. Now, you have a lot of security. Things are very routine and you know kind of what’s coming. So there’s an upside to that. But you don’t always have the freedom to decide who you want to work with. Or you may have ideas, but there’s a large group to convince. And it’s not entrepreneurial in nature, which is fine if you choose to do that. And so we really wanted the freedom to decide the kind of work we would be able to do, where we would travel, who we would meet and have that opportunity. And the other piece is simplicity. That’s probably been one of the things I really was surprised with. Working a big corporation for 26 years, there’s a lot of complexity. on getting your job done. And there’s a lot of things you need to do and a lot of responsibility. And I think now that we’ve taken a step back, we kind of concluded, you know what? We don’t need a bigger house. We need a smaller house. We don’t need more things. We need less things. And we just want to take advantage of all the experiences there are to have And we’re not going to be able to do this forever. I would say this is a part of our life right now where we’re healthy, we’re energetic, we can be on the road, we can travel and really use all this to our advantage. And then the next chapter will come eventually and we’ll end up eventually buying a house again and settling down somewhere and having that whatever that next chapter will be. But I think those are the two big drivers for us, freedom and simplicity. And so far, we have plenty of both. And that’s really kind of fulfilling what our goal was.
CHRYSANDRA :
I love it. Well, that is that I love that you were able to say that it’s stamped with adventure on your heart and your wife’s heart of just where this is all led, even when you were little and has led you to where you are now. And Danny, you, you briefly mentioned it, but you are So you were the vice president of Magic Kingdom for a while and came out with some books. You’ve come out with so many. But when we first met, that’s why I knew who you were right away was because of one of your books that was led in our leadership course. And can you just share the titles of those books?
DAN COCKERELL :
Yeah. Well, here’s this is where some people get a little confused between both, because my father also worked for Disney for about 16 years. He retired at 63 years old and he wasn’t done either. So he’s been a great a huge role model for me. So he he when he got out, his his first book was Creating Magic, which was a book I think that you used in your courses. And then he then he went on to write three other books about leadership, about time management, about career management. And then when I left Disney back in 18, I talked to a few people and they said, you know, if you really want to improve on your credibility, you really should write a book. just to prove to people you’ve kind of thought this through. So I decided, as I mentioned earlier, to pick something that I knew a lot about, I was passionate about is building culture. So my book’s called How’s the Culture in Your Kingdom? And it really is a book about my career experiences, my life experiences, and what I personally think are the most important parts of how to lead yourself, lead… teams, lead your organization and lead change. And so, uh, and, and the way I look at it is your, your kingdom could be, uh, it could be where you work. It could be your home. It could be your church. It could be wherever you spend time. There’s a culture and the people who participate right there.
CHRYSANDRA :
We need to take a quick break, but we want to hear all about this. We thank everybody for tuning into all the dreamers radio show. We’ll be right back. Hi guys, this is Crisandra Brunson, host of To All The Dreamers. I am so happy to introduce personal training, nutritional guidance, and behavioral change coaching. Healthy, happy, and heavenly for your wellness, spirit, soul, and body. Contact Mimi Kroger at healthyhappyandheavenly.com.
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CHRYSANDRA :
We are back. Thank you for tuning in to all the Dreamers radio show. And we have the one and only Dan Cottrell with us today. Tuning in from Brazil that I forgot to mention earlier on, but that is just, it applies so much and is such a great example to what we’re talking about. And Dan, you were just sharing about the power of this book that you wrote. Can you just tell us again about company culture or culture in our kingdoms?
DAN COCKERELL :
Yeah. So the way, you know, the way I define culture, I read, I’ve read lots of definitions of culture, but the one that was the most resonated with me is culture is how things are done around here. So really culture is a definition of behaviors and what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable. And when you’re in a culture where you feel valued, it’s because you connect with the behaviors that are acceptable and unacceptable. And when your values connect with an organization, it’s much easier to be successful. It’s much easier to be committed. And that’s what I learned at Disney. Culture is big on, or Disney’s big on culture. And it’s big on making sure people know what behaviors are acceptable and how to create magic for guests. And so Valerie and I, and I think everyone who’s worked at Disney have learned a lot about how to create culture. And a lot of it is very simple. It is role modeling. It’s creating a lot of clarity, making sure people understand what the goals are, and then holding people accountable and rewarding them for the right behaviors. And that’s how you kind of get 75,000 employees at Walt Disney World all to sort of walk generally in the same direction by making sure there’s really great training and really great leadership. And every organization has a culture. Whether leadership has decided that’s what they want their culture to be, that’s when you got to look at it because culture will be created no matter what you do. If you do nothing, you’re still going to have a culture, but you just want to make sure it’s a culture that you mean it to be. And that’s what leaders are responsible for is to guide culture and make sure they’re very clear about what it should look like. And there is no good culture, bad culture. There is just culture and it’s what’s acceptable and what’s not. And so Valerie and I now, you know, we travel the world speaking and doing workshops and working with companies and we try to help them define what they want their culture to be. And then we help them with all the tools and tactics to actually bring that to life. And I think that’s where a lot of companies fall short. They have a poster on the wall that says who they want to be or who they think they are. But when it comes to the reality, you don’t see those behaviors play out every day. And that’s really where the discipline is.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, I think everyone tuning in wants to know, OK, well, how can I get started on changing my company culture, even culture within our families? And, you know, this relates to everyone. You don’t have to be part of a Walt Disney per se, but to be part of your own little facet, your own little community. What’s the first step?
DAN COCKERELL :
All right, let’s say I’m in a coffee shop and I say, okay, we want to decide what the culture is. Well, first of all, why do we exist? What are we trying to do as a coffee shop? First of all, well, we need to sell quality coffee at a decent price so people will continue to come back. All right, great. So we’re going to give everyone what they expect to get out of a coffee shop. But then what is it above and beyond that? What is the emotional connection? What is going to make our coffee shop special? How are we going to differentiate ourselves? We could decide it is going to be an incredible place to be able to stay in that third place where you work from, kind of like the Starbucks, Howard Schultz’s vision for Starbucks. Or I could say, you know what, we’re going to be the friendliest coffee shop in town. When people come here, they’re really going to feel welcome. There’s going to be a sense of community. So once you decide what your purpose is, what you’re trying to bring to life, then you get with your employees and you say, okay, if we want to be the friendliest coffee shop here, what are the things we should be doing so people know we are the friendliest place? Well, we should probably open really early for all those people to get up really early and go to work early so we’re accessible to them. When people come in, we should probably greet them and make sure that they know they’re welcome here. We should probably ask our customers what kind of amenities they need in our coffee shop. Is the Wi-Fi working well? Do we allow people to have meetings? Do we offer loyalty programs? If you come in regularly, we’re going to be able to… value you by maybe giving you some free coffee or something for free? And then when you order, do we know your name using technology or that looks like? Because that has to do with it. So you start to talk about how each person in the organization behaves and how they deliver that. You set those clear expectations and then you start offering that. And then you go back and you ask your customers if they’re enjoying that experience or not. And if they are, you know you’re on the right track. And if they’re not, you start to make changes and you’re never done. Right. One of the big things I like to tell audiences is everything you need to know about proving your business is you can ask two people, your employees and your customers, and they know what that is. You just have to learn how to ask them in a way to help them respond, listen to what they have to say, make those changes. And over time, you’re going to create a place that is special and is differentiated from your competition.
CHRYSANDRA :
Wow. I think that everyone wants to be able to replay all of that, Dan, because every single point is just it’s life changing. And but that’s why we’re going to tell everyone at the end of our show how they can get in touch with you and your beautiful wife to be able to come for consulting to wherever they’re located in the world. So Dan, you’ve been able to implement this. I love that you used a coffee shop and just being able to know that it’s, creating culture just starts with the basics, but identifying them and creating the life that we want and that Disney magic, quote unquote, having those experiences to go above and beyond, to love one another, to just show people that nothing is impossible. What did you, when you were at Disney, just in that role as, you know, I guess I just see, you started out in the parking lots and then slowly throughout time, Because of your heart and just knowing that it was golden hearted, was able to become a VP at Disney. What did you see with just the most magical experience that you were able to take in? I’m sure there’s so many, but the first one that comes to mind that is inspirational.
DAN COCKERELL :
Yeah. To your point, I saw them every day. I mean, guests come from all over the world to celebrate occasions. And I saw every day birthdays, wedding anniversaries, proposals, being free of cancer. There’s all kinds of reasons people would come to Disney to celebrate. There were some, you know, there’s some ones that were pretty emotional. One that this really that stuck in my mind. We had a family came with, you know, their grandparents, their parents, the grandkids were pretty big group. And they were at the Magic Kingdom for dinner at Crystal Palace. And that’s a restaurant that’s right across from the castle in the main plaza area in the middle of the park. So the family was there pretty late and they were enjoying themselves. And the server came up and talked to the family and kind of found out why they were there. And so eventually the restaurant was almost empty and the park was clearing out. And the server went to the manager and explained the family situation. And what was happening was the grandmother said, had pretty severe Alzheimer’s. And this is probably going to be her last visit with her family to Walt Disney World. And so the manager, you know, this is where, you know, people get creative at Disney and employees manage to get creative. They said, well, you know, since, and they didn’t say to the group, they said it to the grant, the children, since this probably is going to be your last visit as an entire family to Walt Disney World, would your, you know, would your parents, your grandparents, the older couple, Like to have one last dance together in the park. And so once the park was clear, they put the Cinderella music on the speaker system in the park. And the couple danced in front of the castle. And the family got pictures and videotape of that. And just creating a moment like that. I mean, you can imagine being by yourself in the Magic Kingdom in front of the castle, watching your grandparents dance. And that was, they wanted just to have a great memory of them. So those were the kind of things that, you know, once again, you can’t plan this stuff in advance. You just have to have employees who say, you know what, we’re here to make magic and always looking for opportunities to bring those moments to life and be creative and make those moments happen. And that’s not any standard operating guideline. That wasn’t something we had done before, but in the moment they said, this is what we should be doing for these, these families. And that’s, you know, that’s why Disney differentiates itself because you get everything you think you’re going to get and hopefully a little bit more. And that’s what makes the difference.
CHRYSANDRA :
Wow. I have goosebumps all over and tears in my eyes because of that Disney magic moment and how you were able to be part of that experience. And it just shows what we can do when we’re able to go outside of our minds and create something different that wasn’t there before. And I think that so many times we think that we have to stay in these boxes or, you can’t go outside of them, but to be able to set a culture where you can. And even as a family that we can and in communities that we can do what seems impossible to be able to have these lifelong moments and an inspirational story that now can ripple out forever. So that is so, so powerful. And thank you for sharing that. Dan, what would you say is your biggest tool and tip and someone living out their calling? If they feel stuck, how do you get out of that? And how do you keep on moving forward to what you really feel like is in your heart?
DAN COCKERELL :
Yeah, I think it’s very practical. And once again, it comes back to a behavior. You don’t hope it’s going to happen. You act on it. And for me, it is taking initiative wherever you are to make the best and make the most and learn the most you can about every moment you have. So one of the only reasons we’re here in Brazil was because six years ago, Valerie’s cousins were visiting from France and met a gentleman who was taking English classes who was from Brazil. And I met him once and we became friends. And now he helps as kind of our business manager here. And we’ve been here three times this year. And so it comes, these moments, people get in ruts and they’re looking for a very specific way to change things. But life doesn’t happen that way. Life happens when you’re open-minded and you just are kind and you take advantage of getting to know others and help others. And along the way, good things happen. The only reason we’re here talking to you today is because we were in Denver at the Starbucks at REI. And I was doing my podcast and you overheard us and we started to chat and we talked a little bit and you were so excited about leadership and working on your education. And we had that conversation. Well, here we are today. And we easily could have kind of just moved on and not talked again. So Valor and I are really big on taking every opportunity when we meet people, take full advantage to get to know who they are, get to know about them, learn from them. And many times those without any planning become long-term friendships. And I think it’s a great way to live life. You know, I really am a big believer you create your own luck by the way you approach the world. And you approach things in a positive, optimistic way. You look for opportunities when things don’t go right. You look for the learning. You look for the silver lining. And you keep moving on. And when you take that kind of approach in life, I think constantly good things will happen to you.
CHRYSANDRA :
Couldn’t have said it better. Thank you so much. And well, I, it sticks with me because when that is such a perfect, perfect example of your guys’s hearts as leaders and just world changers, but you said, we always say yes. And that just stuck with me as a stamp on my heart. I’m like, That is the best way to live life and live life to the fullest. And Danny, you’ve been such an inspiration. We’re coming up to the end of our show, but we want everyone, we know everyone wants to stay in touch with you and to be able to be a part of your story in this upcoming season and to get your books. And how can they do that?
DAN COCKERELL :
Yeah, so How’s the Culture in Your Kingdom is on any site where you buy books, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, wherever you find it. How’s the Culture in Your Kingdom by Dan Cockrell. And you can get, there’s the paperback, there is the digital Kindle book, and there’s also the audio book.
CHRYSANDRA :
Great. I know everyone loves an audio book, especially nowadays, and to be able to stay in touch with you at your website as well. And we are just so honored to have you, Dan. We want you back. We can’t wait. We’re excited to have your bride on as well and to stay in touch with both of you guys. But we look forward to staying in touch. We thank everybody for tuning in today to All Our Dreamers radio show. We welcome everyone to stay in touch with Dan and our other guests at thecallingnonprofit.org. We want everyone to know that they can answer the question inside of their hearts of what you would do if you knew you could not fail. The answer to that question is what you’re meant to do and you can live it out. Till next time, dreamer. Keep dreaming big.
