In this episode of ‘To All the Dreamers,’ we’re inspired by the courageous dedication of Dinesh and Debbie D’Souza as they discuss The Dragon’s Prophecy. This extraordinary documentary explores biblical archaeology and prophecy against the backdrop of modern-day conflict. Dinesh and Debbie share personal stories of producing a film in a war zone, their unwavering faith, and their commitment to pursuing God’s divine purpose amidst life’s giants.
Welcome, everyone, to The Calling’s radio show, To All the Dreamers. I’m your radio host, Dr. Chrysandra Brunson, and it is such an honor to be with all of you today. You know, at The Calling, we have realized that so many people are afraid to go after the dreams that Jesus has put inside each one of our hearts because they are afraid to fail. And that is just plain wrong because if God has given us a dream, And we’re not living it out. We are wasting it. And we do not want you or anyone else to die with regret. That’s why at The Calling, we love to inspire, empower, and equip people to, after God’s calling on their lives, to reap the best kind of eternal legacy possible to have immediate impact on themselves and their families. We love to do this through so many different avenues of custom tools, programs, workshops, global conferences, but especially through this radio show where we bring on world-renowned guests to share how they’re going after their God-given dreams and how you can do the same. And you guys, today is no exception. So honored and thrilled to be able to share with everyone that we have the one and only Dinesh and Debbie D’Souza. Welcome to the show, you guys.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Thank you very much. We’re very excited to have this conversation. Thanks for inviting us.
CHRYSANDRA :
Yes, thank you guys so much. And Dinesh and Debbie, I am able to have a visual on you, but will you just share with our listeners, they’re tuning in, where are you guys at right now? It looks pretty spectacular.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Well, we’re actually at home. This is our study. Oh, thank you.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
And as you can see, probably a lot of books in the background, a bust of Abraham Lincoln, who was one of my heroes. And so Debbie actually jokes. She says that I actually conduct work all over the house, including the living room, the dining room. She says, try to keep it confined to the study. But now this time we really are in the study.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
Yes, one of many of Dinesh’s offices. Not counting the kitchen counter, the kitchen island, the dining room, the living room, my office.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Well, I sometimes joke that I do this for tax reasons because that way I can say that most of my house is really part of my business.
CHRYSANDRA :
Hey, that’s what a great entrepreneur thinks. So good job. But Debbie, good job for just pulling it in. Well, Dinesh and Debbie, everyone, your name sounds familiar. Most everyone tuning in knows of you guys. But just in case someone may not know, will you just share with our listeners some of the roles that you’ve played in humanity thus far and ones that you’re in currently?
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Well, I guess I’ll go first and then Debbie can follow. We’re both immigrants. I’ll let Debbie talk about her background. I’m an immigrant from America, I mean, from India to the United States. I came at the age of 17. Both of us have spent most of our adult lives here. I’ve spent most of my career in politics at these so-called think tanks, which are sort of scholarly research foundations. I spent a lot of years writing books and have now done a couple of dozen books or close to it. And I’m probably best known as a documentary filmmaker, which I started about 2012. And we’ve done now eight or nine documentaries, the latest of which is called The Dragon’s Prophecy. And it deals with current issues. It deals with issues in the Middle East, but it also ties them to the Bible. It ties them to biblical archaeology and also a hint of biblical prophecy. So that’s my background. And honey, it’s time to give them yours.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
My background. Well, as Dinesh said, I was born in Venezuela. My mother is Mexican-American and she is from South Texas. And my father was Venezuelan and I was born in Venezuela. And I came to the United States to live with my mother’s side of the family about 40, about 50 years ago. Yeah. A long time ago. No way. Well, you look stunning, Debbie. I was 10 years old and I knew no English. So I had to quickly assimilate, learn the language. And really, I became an American. I was very patriotic. I was very patriotic. in Venezuela, but I became very patriotic in America. I would even dress up like, I think my favorite person to dress up like, and I didn’t even know what really what she looked like was Martha Washington. And the funny thing is we’re celebrating 250 years this summer, but I remember celebrating the bicentennial and I dressed up like Martha Washington in 1976. So, yeah, It’s been a great ride. America has been really, really good to me. And, you know, now I do movies. I help with movies with Dinesh and produces podcasts and really living a really great, wonderful life. And, yeah, I can’t say enough about my hubby, but…
CHRYSANDRA :
oh well i would say a true kingdom power couple and one that we could all look up to and so personally just thank you guys for your guys’s example and truly just continuing to pioneer the ground of which jesus has called you to which is very hard ground and together saying yes continually saying yes to that and so debbie and dinesh we do we love when couples are able to come on here and especially having the opportunity to have both of you we have to know your love story and how you guys met each other how did you snag debbie
DINESH D’SOUZA :
I’ll put it this way. Debbie and I were in different states. I lived in California. Debbie lived in Texas, which is where we live now. And Debbie came across a series of videos that were about Venezuela, but they were about socialism. And she knew that the videos involved a guy named Bill Ayers, a very kind of notorious and controversial figure on the political left. And Debbie said, you know, I just saw Dinesh debating this guy, Bill Ayers, on Megyn Kelly’s show. Megyn Kelly at that point had a show on Fox. And Debbie goes, I’m going to send these videos to this guy. So… Our joke between the two of us, because that’s when I reached out to her, is Debbie goes, you know, you never followed up on the videos. And so what I tell Debbie is I go, I kind of ignored the videos on Venezuela and I went for the Venezuelan. Yeah.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
So that was 11 years ago.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
That was, yeah.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
So we’re, we’ve been married nine, nine and a half years. And so, yeah. So in a weird way, all of this craziness brought us together, but it’s been really an amazing thing because God had a plan for, for us and to, you know, to fight for, for our country is as best as we could. And I think our combined, our,
DINESH D’SOUZA :
you know fervor for this country is is has made us a really wonderful couple i think yeah i know we thought we can go into it if you like but this latest project that which is a departure for us our earlier films were mainly in one way or another about the meaning of america But this is a film that for us was not merely a political journey. It was very much of a spiritual journey. Because when you set foot in Israel, you’re in the land of the Bible. You can’t miss that fact. And for us in particular, we were very interested in biblical archaeology, all the stuff that is coming out of the ground. you know, coins and seals made out of clay, stone artifacts and stone inscriptions, other things, all of which are supporting and corroborating figures in the Bible. So the way I put it is that you’ve got these biblical figures like Pontius Pilate, Caiaphas, the high priest, the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah, even earlier King David. And for hundreds of years, even thousands of years, these figures were only in the Bible. You had to accept them on faith. There was no… non-biblical corroboration or attestation of them. But now, thanks to this biblical archaeology, these figures are jumping out of the Bible and into the pages of history via the pathway of archaeology. So this was one of the first things we experienced in Israel long before we got the idea of doing a film on it.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
Yes. Yes. Yeah. So and then October 7th happened. And we you know, we really weren’t sure what which way to go, because doing a movie about October 7th would have been what we would have had to have done it. really quickly, right, right after October 7th. But we didn’t do this movie for really two years after October 7th. But I archived a lot of the footage that the Hamas terrorists did with their GoPro cameras, their iPhones. In many instances, they live streamed the family so that their family would see them being killed. Just horrors. And I don’t know why. I mean, I know it was the Holy Spirit that did this, but I captured everything. I saved everything. And then when Dinesh, you know, thought, well, you know, maybe we should do a movie that encompasses October 7th, but also encompasses biblical archaeology and biblical prophecy. And then if you want to take it from there.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Well, I mean, we realized over two years that the footage had never been publicly released. The government of Israel, I think, was very concerned about the emotions of the hostage families. And so they decided to show this to a few journalists, but we’re not going to put it out there. And so when you see our film, the first 10 to 12 minutes, it’s like… you’re on the scene of October 7th and you’re on the scene from a very unique vantage point because see normally imagine a typical like home invasion movie or like a horror movie right you see it from the point of the victims the victims are eating dinner and then somebody breaks a window and the bad guys come in you’re seeing it from the victim’s point of view but in October 7th because of who took the footage you’re seeing it from the attacker’s point of view it’s almost like You are on a motorcycle, you have a GoPro, you’re gonna ride into the kibbutzes of Israel from Gaza. So it’s a very eerie and interesting point of view and cinematically very powerful, a great way, I mean, for us to open that film.
CHRYSANDRA :
Yeah. And I just myself, thank you so much for the preview of the film. It feels like you’re right there. And I have been, you know, on foot. It was February right after October 7th. And I think you guys did one of the world class job of depicting. what those scenarios felt like from from every point you know pointed perspective and so uh this whole the the puzzle pieces that you guys are putting together though and the way that jesus has done that i think allows us to ask you guys what what jesus is doing within our generation And when is he coming back? We would love to know. And I do have to say we have to take a short break, but we will be we’ll be right back. You guys, you guys are tuning into all the Dreamers radio show with Dinesh and Debbie D’Souza, world class guests, kingdom world shakers and couple. We’ll be right back. Hi guys, this is Chrysandra Brunson, host of To All The Dreamers. I am so happy to introduce personal training, nutritional guidance, and behavioral change coaching. Healthy, happy, and heavenly for your wellness, spirit, soul, and body. Contact Mimi Kroger at healthyhappyandheavenly.com.
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CHRYSANDRA :
we are back. Thank you to the dreamers radio show and on and are just clinging Question before we went to break was, what is Jesus doing in our generation as a whole? And these puzzle pieces of archaeology, of prophecy, and the Lord just continued to unveil himself within current and historical events. What would you guys speak into is happening within us? And how can we be a part of being on Jesus’s side to be part of his story?
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Well, you certainly framed the question perfectly because the central theme of our film is the great clash between good and evil that is embodied in God with Jesus on the one side and the dragon, which is, that is an image out of the book of Revelation and refers directly to the devil. So the idea here is that the world that we experience is not the only world. There’s a world behind the world and that the events in front of us are biblical events. They’re biblical events in that in some cases they have biblical parallels. You can look back in the Old Testament, you realize that the battle between Israel and Hamas, well, we’ve seen that before in the battles between the ancient Israelites and some of their classic enemies like the Philistines. But not only that, that in the end the the choice is up to each one of us on whose side do we want to be and you know we have a choice on which side to be we don’t have a choice about whether to choose you can’t stay out of it you can’t do the punches pilot and wash your hands off the matter you really do have to choose but which side you choose is is is up to you so we want to put that right in front of people. Now, on the side of biblical prophecy, the film is quite cautious. I say that because you probably know, we’ve all heard, you know, we have an uncle. He’s going to tell us exactly how the world is going to end on what date and like what’s going to happen like week to week. So we don’t do that. But what we do say is that, you know what, the Bible gives you some kind of very clear signposts of the end times.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
One of them, Matthew 24.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Yeah.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
Jesus clearly says that he does not know the day or the hour. Only the father knows that. Right. So we have to be very, very cognizant of that and understand that even though Jesus did say these are the signs, this is these are the growing pains or what they what they call like the Braxton Hicks, a woman giving birth. Right. So. Right. We’re going through all of that right now, I believe, with the not only the the good versus evil, but our own side playing up against each other. You know, our own families going up against each other. You know, our family doesn’t like so and so and neither do we. And, you know, that kind of thing. And and dividing our Christian theology, you know.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Well, a very important sign is a rising tide of hatred, both against the Jews, but also against the group that the film calls the spiritual Israelites, which are the Christians. So in order to be a signpost, you have to see more hostility, more violence against both groups. And we do see it. If we look around the world, we see Christians are being persecuted in Nigeria and the Sudan, many other places. But the temperature of hatred and hostility to the Jews, not just in the Islamic world, but in our world here, is off the charts.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
And Jesus does say that those are the signs, right? We don’t know when, though. And I think we’re in the last days. We just don’t know how many days.
CHRYSANDRA :
Right, right. Well, and just going to this movie and you guys saying, yes, this was your guys’ calling. And I love how you were able to share with us in the beginning of the show of how God’s given you both a background to be perfectly fit and suited for this incredible, this film that was very different than any others that you’ve done in project. So The Dragon Prophecy, What are you guys hoping that we can walk away with and activate as listeners, as believers, and warriors for this time and season, not only for Israel, but for Jesus? Yeah.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Well, I think for both of us, the making of the film was itself a providential journey. It’s not easy to make a film in the middle of a war. It’s kind of like you have to sneak in when the door opens and sneak back out before the door closes again. And I literally mean the airport getting closed, rockets flying. So we were in Israel about the only nine days you could have been in Israel to make the film. And we could tell you a lot more along this line. We went down to Gaza. And I was talking to a young woman, a young mom whose husband was taken captive on October 7th. And she was describing this kind of a horror of these Hamas terrorists coming in through her window and how they grabbed the neighbor’s kid and they put a gun to his head because they were hiding in their safe room. And they said, either you come out of the safe room or we’re gonna shoot your neighbor right now. And so they came out of the safe room. Debbie and I realized as I was interviewing this woman that Debbie had the original footage of the Hamas guys coming into our house. So, you know, normally when you make a film and someone is telling you something, you have to recreate that scene using action. so that people can get a feeling of what it’s like. But we did not have to recreate anything because we had the original footage. So while she’s talking, you can actually see the event taken. That’s very rare in a documentary to have that happen.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
So I call that a God moment because realizing, oh my goodness, we have that footage. And it just so happened to be this kibbutz. There were 19 kibbutzes that were infiltrated. And I happened to have the videos for this particular one. So I thought that it had to be a God thing because I can’t explain it in another way.
CHRYSANDRA :
Right. And we want to get towards the end of the show. We want to hear how we can all get a copy of this incredible film, how we can show it to our sphere of influence as soon as possible. But Dinesh and Debbie, we do want to be able to hear… You know, you’ve been able to walk through some of the biggest giants. You know, you talk about that in the film of the Philistines and David going against David and Goliath, that whole scenario. But you both personally have encountered these giants. How have you been able to have the faith to be able to step forward and not let them stop you from what God has told you to do?
DINESH D’SOUZA :
I think it’s a little, for me, difficult to explain. I’ll give you an example from the film itself that makes a broader point. So we’re down at the Gaza border. And in the Gaza border, it’s only a football field away from Gaza, and you can hear bombs going off, and you can actually hear a machine gun fire. That’s in the film. So then my film team says, well, Dinesh, for dramatic effect, we want you to walk across this field that separates Gaza from Israel. And there are tall buildings in Gaza where anybody can easily any sniper can take a shot. And so I kind of look over at Debbie as if to say, are you OK with me doing this? Both of us feel this real sense of calm. And we go ahead and it’s no problem. And now we are engulfed in a major debate about the meaning of the is was Jesus really a Jew? You know, the so-called replacement theology. Does the New Testament cancel out the Old Testament? And you have all kinds of people saying things like, well, Dinesh, you’re obsessed with Israel, even though I haven’t made I haven’t actually made a film on Israel until now. Yeah. And so we’re in the middle of these accusations of like we’re crypto Jews and all this stuff. But we have a great calm through the whole thing because we are doing nothing other than trying to show the truth and being forthright and honest in the way we do it.
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
Yeah. And Psalm 23, I mean, that says it all. You know, we will fear no evil. We are going to stand on truth, biblical truth. And I suggest everybody does, too. Go into a really good Bible study so that you truly understand that the Bible is an entire… document. It’s not just the New Testament. It’s not just the Old Testament. It’s all of it combined. And you have to read from the beginning to the end to know the truth.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
And one of our Jewish friends actually drawing on the Hebrew scriptures said to us, remember that one of the most commonly used phrases in the Bible, do not be afraid. And that is not like kind of our… That’s our mantra. Everyone is.
CHRYSANDRA :
yes well you guys you guys live it out second by second and uh i don’t know where time goes it goes by so quickly but would love to have you guys back on as soon as possible before we go though a couple questions for you guys and then we want to know where to be able to find this film Dinesh and Debbie, there’s people tuning in right now. There’s someone listening and they are afraid to go after what God’s called them to. They’re letting that giant stand in the way. What would you tell them and what would be your piece of wisdom and tips to be able to push forward?
DEBBIE D’SOUZA :
You just you have to do you have to do what God has asked you to do in your heart. And again, I feel like when you are in the word, you will know it. He gives you discernment. I don’t even know how else to explain that. But when you have discernment, you you’re not afraid. You go out and you speak the truth, even if. Even if it means, you know, people won’t like you. Doesn’t matter. We’re not here to please people. We’re here to please God. So so I believe being grounded in the word is is the only way that you can really know that you’re doing the right thing.
DINESH D’SOUZA :
The way I look at it is that and this is really the lesson to me of the Garden of Eden. Basically, what God is saying to Adam and Eve is I’m your creator. I made you and I know what’s best for you. So but I am going to give you a choice. Would you rather do things my way or would you rather do things your own way? And Adam and Eve went, I’m going to do it our own way. And that’s how we got the world we live in now. And we do have free choice and God gave it to us. But the best way to exercise your free choice is to go back to the original question. Would you rather live it out your way or would you rather allow God’s way to speak itself through you? And I think where we have faith is that in following the will of God, that actually is our best life. We couldn’t devise a life better than the one that God has devised for us.
CHRYSANDRA :
whoo yeah denisha and debbie i had goosebumps that whole time that you guys were sharing and couldn’t articulate it any better i know that everyone wants to be able to come alongside to be a part of this movement that you guys have been creating for decades um and just separately and together now as a kingdom power couple for this movie in particular in this incredible project How can people purchase this, rally behind it, this movement, and also just the movement and next steps of what’s to come in this coming year and years?
DINESH D’SOUZA :
Well, you can follow our work generally. We do a daily podcast called the Dinesh D’Souza Podcast, and it’s on audio and video in all the normal places. The film is in streaming and DVD, and you can buy a DVD right off of Amazon. Just put in The Dragon’s Prophecy, it’ll pop right up. Or you can go to the movie website, which is The Dragon’s, plural, The Dragon’s Prophecy Film. Don’t forget the film, thedragonsprophecyfilm.com. It’s streaming on a bunch of platforms. You click and watch, or you can…
CHRYSANDRA :
stock up on DVDs for chri should and everyone should just your family, but give it to uh people that I think is everyone that in our family circles and we just love and appreciate truly being kingdom we thank you for your and challenge everyone. Please go follow Dinesh, go follow Debbie, and get a copy of this movie today. Don’t let one more day go by. We thank everyone for listening to all the Dreamers radio show. Till next time, Dreamers, keep dreaming big.
