In this episode, Dr. Chrysandra Brunson hosts a captivating discussion with Mike Mathews, vice president of Oral Roberts University, exploring the integration of faith and technology through the inspiring lens of Mathews’ newly released book, Heaven 7.0. Brunson and Mathews delve into the concept of living out God-given dreams, emphasizing the importance of tapping into the mind of Christ and seeking the kingdom of God above all else. Mathews provides insights into breaking down walls of religion to welcome the kingdom of God into our everyday lives.
Welcome, everyone, to The Calling’s radio show to all the dreamers. I’m your radio host, Dr. Chrysandra Brunson, founder and CEO of The Calling, and it is such an honor to be with all of you today. You know, at The Calling, we have realized that so many people are afraid to go after the dreams that Jesus has placed inside each of our hearts because they are afraid to fail. And that is just plain wrong because if God has given us a dream and we’re not living it out, we are wasting it and we do not want to die with regret. That’s why at The Calling, we love to inspire, empower, and equip people to, after God’s calling on their lives, to reap the best eternal legacy possible to have immediate impact on ourselves and our families. We love to do this through so many different avenues, through custom tools and programs, workshops, seminars. but especially through this radio show where we bring on world-renowned guests to share how they’re going after God’s calling on their lives. And today, you guys, this is a familiar, world-shaking voice that you have all asked to hear again and again and again, the one and only Michael Matthews. And Mike Matthews is the vice president of Oral Roberts University. Mike, welcome to the show.
MIKE MATHEWS :
Hey, Chrysandra, what a delight to be on the show with you again, talking about dreaming, challenging ourselves, but other people as well.
CHRYSANDRA :
Yes, yes. And Mike, you truly are just a hero, a hero in the faith and have just pioneered the way for us to be able to think, dream and believe bigger. And you have several other books out, but one that has just been released that we’re so excited to dive into. First, we would love to hear some of the leadership positions that you have held for those that are Need a little bit of a reminder. And then we want to hear the title of your new book.
MIKE MATHEWS :
Sure. So the positions I’ve held all relate to technology and organizational management. So I spent 12 years at the supercomputer company called Cray Research as the training manager productions, a person for global training for people who are maintaining supercomputers, software and hardware. From there, I’ve got I say mixed up with a university. Not for you, but another university. And it was a wake up call how different a university academic setting is than a corporate setting. And yet I find God does that in our life, right? Is he takes us from this lane to this lane so that we can accommodate, or I would call it adjust, to other people’s emotions, feelings, and thoughts in the world. And so being at Oral Roberts University for 11 years, but then prior to this being with a company that’s the world’s largest provider of education software named Ellucian, I got to pick up a lot of different things around the world that really helps me appreciate people because America only represents 3% of the world. And 97% are somewhere else out of the 8 billion people in the world. So how do we reach them? And so on the book, as an example, I’ve got a person named Robert Kayanja, and he’s in Uganda and one of the largest churches in Uganda, Africa. But he’s the only man I know that has a what’s known as a diplomatic passport. It’s a red passport that allows you to go to any airport, get on a flight, no questions asked. And so he’s an influencer because he’s blending both science and faith in business together. And that’s really what I do is how do you help people see beyond the church walls or denominational belief system into the kingdom of the living God? It’s a whole different world.
CHRYSANDRA :
Right, right. And Mike, this new book that you just released, can you tell us what it what the title is and what it’s all about?
MIKE MATHEWS :
Sure. So Heaven 7.0 is sort of like my own inkling to say, you know what, technology gets way too much credit. You can see Web 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, Generation 1, 2, 3, 4 phones. But the kingdom of God should be more advanced than technology because nothing man-made could be more advanced than what God, who God is. And we are the representation of God on earth. He created us in his likeness and in his image. And he says that we have the mind of Christ. And if you have the mind of Christ, you should be operating at a whole different operating system than just showing up at church. That’s just that’s like operating system 1.0. How do we get people? So I said, you know what? God’s kingdom is guaranteed to be more advanced. So 15 years ago, I wrote the book Heaven 3.0 because everybody’s at 1.0. And I said today, heaven’s probably at 14.0, but I’ll cut it in half and call it 7.0. Is that right? We are advanced. So I take in the book and use all the language that a young person would understand about operating systems, downloads, and use the metaphors that would be more applicable to a younger generation, not just people in my generation.
CHRYSANDRA :
We love that. And Mike, what was what has been your inspiration for allowing this to be in time in history now? Because just like you said that we need to tap into the mind of Christ. I’ve never known anyone, Mike, that truly does have the mind of Christ like you do.
MIKE MATHEWS :
Yeah, well, I think we all do. It’s just I discovered it because Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. And that’s hard for people who are always showing up somewhere looking external versus inside. And so when God said that he pounded at my heart’s door, his son did, Jesus, I let him in. That means nothing. he’s inside of me and I have to treat this body like the temple of God because it is. And all of a sudden everything starts making sense. But if I’m always striving to compare myself among other people and trying to follow a pattern of just religion, I don’t fulfill his first command. No, I say his first command is not the 10th commandment. It says, seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and everything else begins to be added to you. So I, every morning I would say to God, Lord, If I seek your kingdom today, tomorrow, all my life, I’ll just scratch the surface of what you created for mankind. And so I found out in time that God is a lot like a good father, like the Bible says. And he loves playing hide and seek with his children. And that’s why the Bible so many times says it’s a mystery. The mystery is unfolding in time. Knowledge is increasing. So it’s like he enjoys the playfulness of people learning, of people experimenting. And the people that are in the book of… Hebrews 11, the hall of faith, where people just like you and I, they stumble, they fall, they dream, they do everything, but they never give up. That’s the key. They always keep seeking Him. And as you do, the heavens open up, just like Scripture says.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, and I think, Mike, you have been able to tap truly into the kingdom of God and bring it to earth like never before in these realms that haven’t been tapped into hardly in our generation. But you’re allowing there to be a doorway for people to walk through, just like this tool of this book. Mike, when you, you know, you’ve been on our show, but just to rekindle the memory of your childhood and your upbringing. Yeah. Can you just share, you know, looking back, what it was like when you were little, what seeds God started dropping in you to be able to do what you’re doing today?
MIKE MATHEWS :
Sure. I believe God dropped the seeds of exploration. exploring things that other people may be not interested in and and at times being by myself and it’s true that if you will be by yourself you will grow more than anyone else because god chooses when you’re by yourself to be confronted with him You are focused on him, not other people or teams or groups. And I’m not saying those are wrong because they’re not. But every significant person in Scripture from Moses on the, you know, getting the commandments was by himself. Abraham sacrificing his son was by himself. All the way back to John in the Isle of Patmos, all by himself. So it’s when you’re by yourself that you begin to be desperate and maybe explore things. Or maybe better yet, you’re not listening to other people’s opinions. Right. So your dreams become more real to you. You’ve got not much to hang on to, but maybe the dream that he poured out in your spirit to say, you know what, I’m going to go after that. I may stumble, but I’ll get back up and I’ll go. And in time now, it’s always it’s all going to be proven out that heaven is real. But the difference today is heaven is starting to bump up against earth because he’s ready to come back. And so when I read a story like Rob Reiner’s son who killed his parents, my heart breaks. But it breaks more because he admits he was in rehab 28 times. And it frustrates me because man-made systems don’t really work that well. God-given spectrum or voice changes everything. So when I can get in the frequency and hear the word of God, the voice of God, it changes everything for me. I’m not afraid of things I was afraid of before. And so we now live in a world where people don’t, they’ve lost their identity. Am I this? Am I that? Who do I want to affiliate or associate with? And they haven’t taken the word of God at faith value, I call it. And say, wait a minute, if I’m going to live for God, I’m also taking it at faith value, even if I look like a strange person. Now, those of you who would call me interesting person, the Bible says that I got redeemed and he has called me as a child of God, as a peculiar person. It says right in Scripture. So I am very peculiar. But so are people who serve peculiar people. And God loves that. He doesn’t like cookie cutter people. You know, I don’t say he doesn’t like them. He doesn’t like the attribute that you’re trying to copy other people all the time because he made you so unique. And that’s what I’m so appreciative of the book that Chrysandra wrote the show, because how do we push people into the realm of the unknown when they only rely on themselves? So I say it this way to people. And this is what the book tries to explain as well. is if I want God to be created in the image that I have of him, I think I’m God. It should be the opposite, that he created me in his image, and I need to let go and let him form me into the possibilities that he wants me to go. So in my career, if I only depend upon my education and my desires, I’m going to miss fulfilling his calling.
CHRYSANDRA :
And Mike, I’m going to stop you right there. We need to go to a short break, but we are on the edge of our seats because this is just priceless wisdom. We’ll be right back. Twist and shout with Lee & Co. They are the premier oldies band delivering the rock and roll vibes you’ve been missing. Great songs, great memories. Book them at LeeAndCo.com. Hi guys, this is Chrysandra Brunson, host of To All The Dreamers. I am so happy to introduce personal training, nutritional guidance, and behavioral change coaching. Healthy, happy, and heavenly for your wellness, spirit, soul, and body. Contact Mimi Kroger at healthyhappyandheavenly.com.
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CHRYSANDRA :
At Ignite Brilliance Coaching, you will get 34 years of science teaching, a decade of university-level instruction, and over 10 years of instructional coaching to empower educators with the tools, mindset, and confidence to thrive. Contact Ignite Brilliance Coaching on Facebook. We are back. Thank you for listening to all the Dreamers radio show. We have the world world renowned and dearest friend and world shaker, Mike Matthews, vice president of Oral Roberts University. And Mike, you were just just sharing with us before we went to break about how we can truly embrace being peculiar creatures of Jesus Christ and not blending in to be a copycat.
MIKE MATHEWS :
Oh, absolutely. And I think a lot of it starts now. Keep in mind, the book of Job, Old Testament says God whispers in a person’s ear once, twice to seal up instruction, to keep them on the straight path. So I need to have confidence in my dreams that are God given to see them come out. The promises of God come out in time. And as I do, I’m honoring God. And he repays me because the Bible says in the book of Hebrews, there is no other way to please God than to have faith in him. And just going on my degrees or my education is a pretty limited life, very limited. And I don’t fulfill many dreams that way. So I’m watching now as I’ve aged, everything start to come together. And I’m like, wow. He is who he says he is. Oh, my goodness. And for those of you who would wonder, I couldn’t even get through English class in high school. I was bad. I mean, oh, my goodness. And here I am writing. But God would say to you and me, you know what, Mike? I needed to find someone like you who couldn’t take pride in their writing. I needed to find somebody who would give me the credit for writing a book such as Heaven 7.0. And Chrysandra, here’s a dream that came to pass maybe about three years ago. I’m in London in a very private meeting with one of the wealthiest people in the world. And they’re talking about Web 3.0. And I said, you know, I know a man about 14 years ago who wrote a book called Heaven 7.0, well in advance of even knowing technology would be 1.0, 2.0. Everybody turns on their smartphone and look up, who’s this author? And guess who the author was? Yours truly, their speaker. And I never felt so blessed because when I wrote that book 14 years ago, I was stepping out on a limb in the church world as we know it because what gives Mike the right to talk about heaven? The Bible does. God does. And so think of the simple prayer that every religion can align with, the Father’s Prayer. Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. That’s a prayer. So we need to be praying that heaven bumps up against earth so that we can receive the fullness of God in our daily lives. So the book helps expose a lot of that and tries to break apart religion because religion by itself is a dead end. But the kingdom of God is alive and well.
CHRYSANDRA :
Well, you know, Mike, I think that you’re our modern day Albert Einsteins that love Jesus with their whole hearts and minds and souls. And so I think people listening or just even knowing you, Mike, would be like, how do you you never struggled with writing, but you haven’t fully embraced the abundant life of trusting Jesus with every part and being able to see the possibilities through heaven’s lens. And a common question that was given to the calling of, what would be your job description in heaven? I think, Mike, that’s something that you can relate to. Can you just, for people tuning in, to articulate what we can do right now as a generation in humanity to really embrace this mindset that what we see in heaven and us doing in heaven can be brought here on earth through technology, through operating with the mind of Christ.
MIKE MATHEWS :
Sure. So let me first start by maybe framing it this way. Every day in America, there’s approximately 400 people who have an out-of-body experience, all documented. If you’re interested in reading about them, you go to a website called the Near Death Research Foundation. And there are people who are in a car accident, on the surgery table, where their faculties are shut down, leaving only room for what? The kingdom of heaven. You see, if I get in a car accident, almost die, I’m not worried about my dinner that night, my 401k plan, the weekend plans, my summer vacation, all the things that I worry about. That consumes my mind. And so I believe when we can rest and allow God to let us rest, we will start envisioning things we couldn’t see before. But if I truly am spending all my free hours, which isn’t that many for any one of us, Worried about my 401k plan. Worried about planning the perfect vacation and saving every coupon so I get a cheap discount. I said, that’s tiring. Oh, my goodness. But people feel that that’s worth it. But that’s their heaven.
CHRYSANDRA :
Yeah.
MIKE MATHEWS :
My heaven is above. And the Bible challenges us. It says, if you’ve been risen with Christ, set your affections on those things above, not on those things on earth. And so if I could pretend every day that I’m going to die to self, that’s scriptural, by the way, and live for him, he takes over more than me. I mean, I have a lot of energy in my body just by how God birthed me. And yet I’ve got to slow it down and say, God, I want to hear from you, not my results, because my results are pretty limited. His results are spectacular.
MIKE MATHEWS :
Incredibly spectacular. I tell you, this weekend I was praying for my my granddaughter. She got picked on this traveling soccer team. And I promised my daughter I’m going to give her the money because it’s expensive for these traveling teams. Yuck. But nonetheless, it is what it is. So I did a favor for somebody and wrote something so heavenly that they said, Mike, name what you want. I’m going to give it to you today. This was Sunday night. And it had to do with me expressing what heaven is like when you’re wealthy and you relate it to heaven. And the gentleman is actually calling it a philanthropist, meaning like an evangelist and a philanthropist together. Oh. And so I wrote that and it blessed my heart. But God said, Mike, that’s your calling. You blessed somebody with something, but you asked for no money. You didn’t care. But in return, you got it back. And so there’s a gentleman you can look him up on social media named Jimmy Darts. Jimmy Darts is all over America on social media, helping give out generosity. I did one act of generosity for two people. Next thing I know, they shipped me 900 of his books. And so I’m out passing out all these books, but I believe we’re going to see a day now when heaven bumped up against earth enough where we see heaven moving parts and pieces. But he’s the mammon of the righteous begins to be given to the unrighteous, unexplainable. Oh, no, completely explainable if your sights are on heaven. Completely unexplainable if you’re counting nickels and dimes in your bank account all the time. So I’m watching friendships, relationships, money, jobs just go boom, boom. And I happen to be so motivated by I’m living in the AI era. And I say AI is not artificial intelligence. It’s all money’s intelligence. There is no technology that can outpace him. So if I get on his bandwagon, on his timetable, in his word, I’m going to outpace AI. I have nothing to worry about.
CHRYSANDRA :
Mike, will you just tell us real briefly if you could articulate what heaven is like and why we should be so excited to be able to bring heaven to earth and that that really is our eternal home, but that we can be living in that mindset and reality now. Like, give us that. Sure.
MIKE MATHEWS :
So I see heaven now. I say it based off my own experience having dreams and visions in heaven, but also other people’s experiences. And I say the biggest thing for every one of you is this. You get rid of all your shame. I’ve had two dreams where I was accused of things that I would never do, but mankind is always accusing. The accuser of the brethren. And in my dream, I’m liberated and I lose all my shame. And see, if you carry shame in life, you don’t go many places. You go back to bed, you get on some medication and so forth. But Jesus says he despised the shame so he could get to the cross. So I can’t get to my destination. So I see heaven as being destroyed. completely empty of shame, empty of pain and empty of everything, but a love that we can never express before. And I can only say it this way. When I held my granddaughter for the first time, I understood God’s love a little bit better because she’s never did anything for me to me. I’ve never did anything to her. There’s no offenses. That’s what heaven’s like. There’s no offenses because most of our issues on earth are all about somebody offended me. You know, the doctor did something wrong. Somebody cheated me out of a job. Oh, yuck. It’s like, oh, let heaven come down on earth. And all of a sudden you find you have no offense. You don’t have offense. Many people who get cancers are hindering or holding an offense.
MIKE MATHEWS :
And it’s been proven in time. I’m not saying that’s why people have it. It’s a good cause of it. Anytime you got bitterness, resentment, uh, angers are not things of the spirit of God. And so if I want to be in my subconscious connected to heaven, I’ve got to lose all this fleshly stuff that I carry around all the time. Oh, Bible says, die to yourself every day. Mike, don’t go into work trying to get even with somebody. I’ve did that numerous days, by the way, never worked. Uh, Suddenly heaven says, Mike, let it go. And so I believe we’re going to see attributes of heaven on earth. And that’s what’s happening on all these, we call them secular campuses around the country. I think it’s up to like 700,000 people have been saved and water baptized at University of Ohio, University of Kentucky. And I say, oh, praise God, heaven is now bumping up against earth. And it’s a fulfillment of Isaiah 45, 8 that says, rain down, oh, heaven’s righteousness and spring up from the ground salvation. It’s happening right before our very eyes. But the enemy would rather have you over here offended, not rejoicing over here in the goodness of God. And so I’m just so amazed. I mean, I, you know, Chrysandra, I teach people, I can’t clap in tune. I’m like, I got something wrong with my ears. My wife, my wife would say, Mike, don’t, don’t clap or sing in church with me. Okay. And so forth. And here I am now, I am writing songs for cancer patients.
CHRYSANDRA :
Yes.
MIKE MATHEWS :
With the name in it.
CHRYSANDRA :
Wow.
MIKE MATHEWS :
Same theory about my writing. Why wouldn’t God choose somebody who’s not trying to make a record deal or get on Dove Awards to write songs that would heal a soul? Right. Not just entertain a crowd. And I’m just so amazed at what’s being capable of being done. My granddaughter, who’s nine, has created some things that are phenomenal already with A.I., There are no more limits, but it’s going to be God’s way of fulfilling that. Truly, he’s not a respecter of people because in education, in sports and almost everything we do, families, we’re all comparing ourselves. Who’s the favorite son or daughter? Who’s the black sheep of the family? I can tell you. And there’s some I mean, if you just step back and think of the songs, Seasons in the Sun, I think of right away. I was the black sheep of the family. See, I can’t sing. Right. They taught me right from wrong. But all these songs have been derogatory towards heavenly things.
MIKE MATHEWS :
If you think of the song, knock, knock, knocking on heaven’s door. If you look at the simplicity and stupidity of that song, it’s like, what were we singing? I can create a replicate that flips it all to the right side, which is heaven bound so that heaven can come to earth.
CHRYSANDRA :
We love it. Mike, we have to have you on again sooner than later. You are such a pillar within this ministry of the calling. You are God’s dreamer. Thank you for being a leader of leaders. Mike, we want to know real quick, someone’s tuning in. They’re afraid to go after what God’s calling them to this day, this moment. What would you tell them the greatest piece of advice that you could give?
MIKE MATHEWS :
You know, close your eyes and imagine who your worst enemy is. So if I had to close your eyes right now and I said things to you like you’re stupid, you’re no good, you’re going nowhere. What if I told you you’re the person saying it? But now, what would your best friend say? Your best friend would be God, the Father. And if you look in Psalm 139, it says, if I could recall all the good thoughts that God has for me, they’d be more than the sands. Oh, I want to receive that. My Father on earth was limited. My friends are very limited. I’m limited, but not God in heaven. So, oh, maybe that’s how heaven bumps up against earth when we open up the floodgates or allow him to just rain down on us. And so that’s my piece of advice. Lose all attitudes. all resentments and read God’s word, because in that spectrum of his living word, you will get locked into depression, locked into loneliness. You will get locked into the liberation of his truth, which brings the liberty that it always promised. So, you know, and Chrysandra, one thing I love, if I can squeeze this in, I love preaching in certain places, but I got to run out the door after because they’re going to kill me. I I’m going to say, hey, do you know there’s no such thing as right or wrong? You see, religious people hate that because they built their whole religion on rights and wrongs. I say, listen, the Bible says to seek the absolute truth. And absolute truth knows no right or wrong because it’s absolute. So if you would find and go on a journey to heaven and heaven and find the absolute truth, you’re not going to worry about rights and wrong because it doesn’t exist. That sounds like too far to believe, but it’s true. It’s right in Scripture.
CHRYSANDRA :
Right. Right. We love that, Mike. And I know that everyone wants to be able to come and get in touch with you to purchase this book. And there is something special about this book as well. How can how can we get a copy of it?
MIKE MATHEWS :
You just Google Michael. Matthews with one T in heaven. You’ll find the book. It’s all free, by the way. God challenged me. It’s free. Free downloads, free online, free audio, free text, and free in six languages already. That’s the power of AI. So remember, I told you, you’re dealing with a guy who couldn’t even write a sentence. And I’ve got that in six languages. I’ve got heaven coming to earth in a book that’s all available for free. And all you got to do is go to heaven7.0.com. Oh, heaven7.0.com. And you guys, I’ve been able to see it.
CHRYSANDRA :
It is, it’s life changing. And as you can tell, just even one sentence from the Michael Matthews, will change your life. Go follow Mike. Go find this book. Be able to give it away as an incredible gift, young and old. Till next time, dreamers. Keep dreaming big.
