In this riveting episode, we delve deeply into Revelation chapter 5 to uncover the mysteries of the new song of the redeemed. We explore the critical theological debate between the pre-tribulational and post-tribulational rapture, as explained through the lens of Greek manuscripts and their interpretations. The elders, angels, and creatures unite in a powerful chorus that shakes the heavens, declaring the worthiness of the Lamb who was slain. Join us as we analyze the implications of these heavenly scenes and their relevance to our faith journey today.
00:00:00 Discussion on Revelation and Rapture Debate
We are going to rule with Christ. We are kings and priests under the Lord. Now back to Revelation 5, and let’s take a look at the problem of this text. Is it us or them? Now here it is, folks, in a nutshell. Listen carefully. This is going to determine whether you believe in the pre-tribulational rapture or whether you believe in a post-tribulational rapture.
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Thank you.
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This is Hope for Today with Bible teacher David Hawking. And on today’s program, we close out our study of Revelation chapter 5. But what unfolds is beyond imagination. The Lamb steps forward, His hand on the scroll, and in that moment, heaven erupts. Elders crash to the ground. Scores of angels shake the very foundations of glory, and every creature in heaven and on earth, under the earth and in the sea, join a single thundering cry, Worthy is the Lamb. It’s a scene so massive, it pulls you in and grabs your heart and won’t let go. Well, stay with us for our final look at Worthy is the Lamb from Revelation chapter 5. Today, we’re focusing again on verses 8 through 14. Before we get started, let me ask you a quick question. When was the last time you just sat still and let God’s Word sink in deep? You know, maybe you’ve been wanting to dig in, maybe to get clarity on what’s coming or how to stand strong right now. Well, that’s why we built the Hope for Today Media Center. The Hope for Today Media Center is a place where you can watch powerful teaching series from David anytime, and it’s all for free. It Picture this. You’re with a cup of coffee and your Bible open, hitting play and finding yourself drawn into God’s Word like never before. You can start today by clicking on the Media tab at davidhawking.org. Let’s get back into Revelation chapter 5 now to continue our study there. Worthy is the Lamb. And here’s David.
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In verse 8 it says, And when he had taken the scroll… The four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. I want you to notice four things in this we want you to see about the new song of the redeemed in heaven. Their immediate reaction, we’ve noticed, involves praise and prayer, but their continual response is Verse 9 and 10 records this. It says they sang a new song. The new song is not a style of music. The new song is directed towards the Lord from a redeemed heart, praising the Lord. The new song is a song of the redeemed. Go back to Revelation chapter 5. I think one thing we need to understand in looking at their continual response of singing unto the Lord is the preeminence of the Lamb. The preeminence of the Lamb. Thou art worthy. That describes in very simple language the whole issue of praise. Notice the place of the cross, because it says in verse 9, thou art worthy to take the skull to open its seals. Why? Why do we sing this song forever? Thou art worthy because thou wast slain. It’s very clear. Look at the purchase of the redeemed. It says, you have redeemed us to God. By thy blood. I’ll comment on the us-them problem in just a moment. Just to say this, that when the redeemed are purchased, it’s only by the blood. That’s the only payment. The price was the precious blood of the Lord Jesus. You don’t belong to yourself anymore. You belong to the Lord Jesus Christ. He bought you. He owns you. You are a slave of Christ to do his bidding. The purchase of the redeemed. Notice the people who are redeemed. Chapter 5, again, verse 9. Who are the people who are redeemed in glory? It says, out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation. Look at the position of the redeemed. The position of the redeemed. It says in verse 10, you have made us unto God kings and priests. Now some translations read a kingdom of priests. But the best texts that follow the King James tradition in this case have kings and priests. We are not just a kingdom of priests. We are going to rule and reign with Christ as kings. Look back at chapter 1, please. In chapter 1, verse 6, it says, He has made us kings and priests unto God and His Father. That theme is repeated again here in chapter 5. The promise to the redeemed is stated here at the end of verse 10. And we shall reign on the earth. Turn to Revelation chapter 20 and look at verse 6. It says, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection, that’s for believers only, on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years. Look at chapter 22, verse 5. In the future, in the eternal state, in the heavenly city, the new Jerusalem. It says, there shall be no night there, and they need no lamp, neither light of the sun, but the Lord God giveth them light, and they shall reign forever and ever. It won’t just be in the thousand-year millennial state. We are going to reign forever and ever. I don’t know what God has in mind. Maybe we’re going to manage various galaxies. I have no idea. But we are going to rule with Christ. We are kings and priests under the Lord. Now back to Revelation 5, and let’s take a look at the problem of this text. Is it us or them? I’m going to quote one of the greatest scholars on the book of Revelation, who is also a post-tribulationist. He says in his book, George Eldon Ladd, Commentary on Revelation, that if in fact it is us, then that group is speaking about their own redemption and must refer to the church, which immediately makes us all pre-tribulational. Because whatever the 24 elders are, they represent a completed group of people. He happens to believe they are angels. I believe they cannot be angels, and it’s stated so back in our message in chapter 4. But this is a little bit stronger than you can believe. I decided to go through all of the Bibles I have. I got two shelves of them in all kinds of translations. And I was amazed how often this particular footnote appears. Most ancient authorities agree that the word is them or they. Even in versions that are King James and support the us in the text, there’s a little footnote. I have a King James. It has a footnote. Here’s what it says. Most early manuscripts omit us in verse 9 and read them and they instead of us and we in verse 10. One of the leading pre-tribulational teachers in America says in his commentary that that beyond a doubt all scholars know that the translation is them and they, not us. That we pre-tribulationalists should not use this passage to teach our point since it reveals our lack of scholarship. Oh, hey, there are worse statements than that. I have spoken publicly on this matter and have been asked also by some who are Greek manuscript men to keep my mouth shut. I’m not going to. See, the insinuation is, listen carefully, the insinuation is that the average layperson cannot really fathom this. I don’t believe that at all. I believe the average layperson can fathom it and ought to know about it. First of all, out of all the manuscripts we have, the most important ones are, of course, in the original language. Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Far more important than any other language into which the Greek is translated. Well, how many manuscripts out of some 5,000 on the New Testament do you think have the book of Revelation? Any part of it in the manuscript? Only 95%. There’s only 95 known Greek manuscripts on the book of Revelation in existence in the world. Now, some may be under the protective covering of some hill that archaeology hasn’t uncovered yet, but we have only 95 known manuscripts in Greek on the book of Revelation. Now, I ask myself, since these are all fragments, how many of those have Revelation 5 in the fragment? Very interesting, only 24 out of the 95 have Revelation 5. There’s only 24 Greek manuscripts in the world that have Revelation 5 in it. I find it extremely interesting that 23 out of the 24 read us. There is, in fact, only one manuscript, Codex Alexandrinus, that says them. Next project. When the Latin Vulgate was translated 4th century AD, Jerome, who translated the Latin Vulgate, became the standard Bible of the Catholic Church for a thousand years, at least, and some still use it. The Latin Vulgate of Jerome, he had more Greek manuscripts available to him than we even know exist on this book. And I find it extremely interesting that in the Latin Vulgate it reads us in both verses, verse 9 and 10. First person plural. I looked up the versions. You know, versions mean Greek translated in another language, like Latin and Syriac and Armenian and Coptic and all that stuff. I decided to look up the versions, and I found out they all read us. Well, this is getting more interesting. As a matter of fact… In verse 10, the word them in the third person plural, they shall reign, are all what we call variant readings even in the manuscript evidence. It means there’s a lot of variation as to whether it’s them or not. By the way, it would be possible to read us in verse 9 since only one manuscript ever changed it, and you could read them in verse 10 as an editorial comment of the redeemed ones in verse 9 and still have the same argument. Did everybody follow that? I didn’t think so. Here’s the point. In verse 9, it’s very clear that only one Greek manuscript contains anything but us. Well, let’s suppose for a moment, even though there are variant readings that have they and them and they shall reign, let’s suppose that that’s correct. Then verse 10 is simply an editorial comment on the us of verse 9. The problem here would still exist. If you say in verse 9, thou art worthy because you have redeemed us to God, then the 24 elders are singing a song about themselves that they in fact are redeemed. Angels cannot be redeemed. They are not angels. They have to be people who are redeemed. I believe Revelation 1 really settles it. Go back to Revelation 1. Verse 4 says, John to the seven churches. Verse 5, from Jesus Christ, in the middle of verse, unto him that loved. Well, isn’t that interesting? He didn’t say unto him that loved them and washed them from their sins in his own blood. He didn’t say he made them kings and priests unto God. And this is a direct quotation also in chapter 5 that he’s made us kings and priests. No, the us belongs in Revelation 1, 4-6 settles it. Because there’s no variation on that text whatsoever. You see, friends, what this means is the 24 elders in heaven, a completed body of people in heaven, are literally redeemed believers. The church of Jesus Christ is in heaven all during the tribulation. It is not on earth. I believe the evidence is overwhelming. The church will be in heaven while the tribulation goes on on earth. They’re singing a song about themselves. You redeemed us with your blood. And I praise the Lord for that. Which brings us to the heavenly refrain. Verse 11, chapter 5. Chapter 5, verse 11. I heard the voice of many angels. Talk about a multitude. It says 10,000 times 10,000. Now people figure that out, you know, and figure they have the number. Well, the Bible adds and thousands of thousands in case you were trying to figure it. But just to help you a little bit with that, the word 10,000 is not going to help you if you’re trying to just multiply 10,000 times 10,000. Because 10,000 is the highest number in the Greek mathematical system. What it is saying is, however high you could count. There’s so many people you can’t count them. Chapter 7 verse 9 should have told you when it says, when God even saves people in tribulation, it’s a number nobody can count. There’s going to be so many people in heaven, it’s going to blow us away. number of them. Now the message they proclaim is interesting. Count up the words and how many of them are there in verse 12. Power, riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory, blessing. How many words? Seven. You see the word seven all the way through the book of Revelation. A seven-fold, manifold, complete description of the Lamb’s worthiness. Power, riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory, blessing. All of it belongs to him. And then look at the universal reverence for God the Father and God the Son in verse 13 and 14. The adoration comes from every creature in heaven, on the earth, under the earth. Are those demons? Some people say, I resent you saying that demons can worship the Lord. Listen, God’s going to make unbelievers bow the knee and recognize that he’s Lord. They don’t worship from our, quote, redeemed worshiping hearts, but they will fall down before him and recognize him as Lord. Can God also do that of demons? You bet. The demons fell at Jesus’ feet and said, surely. You are the Son of God. Demons believe there’s one God, says James 2.19, and they tremble. No, it won’t be in saving faith, and no, it won’t be the expression of worship in the redeemed, but everything will praise the Lord. Everything will acknowledge that He is who He claimed, even in unbelief. Everybody is going to. The acclaim will go to the Father and the Son, the Bible makes it clear. I like the word amen in verse 14. The four living creatures said amen. The Greek text has what we call an imperfect tense, which means they kept on saying it. And there are folks that don’t want us to say amen today. But in heaven, the four living creatures, you talk about an amen corner. Notice the act of worship which characterizes the 24 elders again. We mentioned it earlier. They fell down and worshipped him that liveth forever and ever. There’s nothing more wonderful than this song. Worthy is the Lamb. Revelation 5, follow it. Right on the text. Redeemed us to God. It’s a King James Choir.
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that was slain. O God, forgive us to die, to die by his blood. Verse 13. Verse 13. CHOIR SINGS That greater what? Worthy is the Lamb. Praise the Lord.
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That’s David Hawking with a powerful time, classical praise, and declaration of God’s holy word here on Hope for Today. David will be back to close out our study. Just ahead of that, have you ever wondered what the future that God has for us and our world looks like? David pulled it straight out of Zechariah and put it in one powerful book. And right now, David’s son Matt’s here, and together we’re going to tell you all about this book.
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Matt? Zechariah is an exciting prophetic roadmap that points clearly to the coming of our Lord and the restoration of Israel. In Zechariah 1.3, the Lord states, Turn ye unto me, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will turn unto you.
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Matt, that message, it applies today as well, doesn’t it? We need repentance, don’t we? Yes, we do. Zechariah is crucial to understanding that and God’s plan in these last days. Absolutely. Look at Zechariah 12.10. They shall look upon me… upon me whom they have pierced. You know, I’m reminded that God has not forgotten and will not forget his covenant people and that a day is coming when the nation of Israel will recognize their Messiah. What a day that will be. Yeah, exactly.
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I understand, Zechariah, and you’ll have tremendous insight into the future.
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But Matt, also, the days we’re living in right now, it speaks of nations gathering against Jerusalem, Zechariah 14.2. The Lord returning and standing on a Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14.4.
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And of the day when the Lord shall be king over all the earth from Zechariah 14.9. Clear, literal prophecies given by God about what is yet to come.
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A Visions of the Future was written by David Hawking to help believers understand the connection between biblical prophecy and the events we see unfolding in our world today. so that we might be prepared and watchful and strengthened in our faith. And the book of Zechariah gives us the clarity and confidence to stand firm, watch, and be ready. Amen, amen. Well, this month we’re featuring David’s book, Visions of the Future, for $15. And when you purchase… Would you prayerfully consider adding a donation to help us continue the work of Hope for Today, or send a contribution by itself, either a one-time gift or a regular monthly gift? And as always, please faithfully pray for Hope for Today. Amen. To order David’s powerful study resource, Visions of the Future, call 1-800-75-BIBLE, that’s in the U.S., or 888-75-BIBLE in Canada. Bible by the numbers 242- Or go to davidhawking.org. And can I ask you something? Has this program, Hope for Today, helped you hold on to God’s Word when everything else felt uncertain? Have you found hope here as we study God’s Word when you need it most? You know, it seems like every single day we hear from listeners who say that there’s a message they’ve heard here on the program that changed everything. A marriage healed, a life turned around, a faith that came alive again. So many stories. And you know something? We know it’s not us. It’s the Holy Spirit of God moving through his word, doing the work. That’s why Hope for Today exists, to get his truth into hearts that are hurting and searching. So, would you consider coming alongside us, joining us in ministry right now to keep this message going out strong? Your support helps us reach people who may never step into a church, but who desperately need to hear the hope only found in Jesus Christ and God’s Word. A donation, whether it’s a one-time gift or a monthly commitment, makes an eternal difference. So if God has used this program to speak to your heart, would you take a moment today to call, go online, or write and partner with us financially, as God might direct? Let’s keep pointing people to the only hope found in Him. If you prefer to write, our address is Hope for Today, Box 3927, Tustin, California, 92781. That’s in the U.S. Or in Canada, write to Hope for Today, Box 15011, RPO, Seven Oaks, Abbotsford, B.C., V2S 8P1. And here’s David.
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Well, thanks for listening, friends, and thank you for your prayers and support. We’re in Chapter 5 of Revelation. And in verse 12, it says, worthy is the lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing. Every creature in heaven, on the earth, under the earth, such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing and honor and glory and power be unto him that sitteth upon the throne and under the land forever and ever. And the four cherubim worship leaders of heaven said, Amen. Literally, they kept on saying it. And the four and twenty elders representing the church after the rapture they fall down and worship him that liveth forever and ever. My, what a great passage of Scripture. If you miss any one of these broadcasts, just go to our website, davidhawking.org, and you can pick up a broadcast that you might have missed. Also, we have HFT Media, and there’s where the whole series on Revelation is found. You can watch it, listen to it. All of Isaiah, all 66 chapters.
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God bless you. Tomorrow, a seal breaks, a horseman rides, and the world shudders. War, famine, death, and a fake peace that can’t hold. Don’t miss The Four Horsemen from Revelation 6, 1-8. Next time on Hope for Today.
