Aaron Budjen, with Living God Ministries, established his radio program for the purpose of evangelism and discipleship in the knowledge of our Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. The radio ministry began on October 30, 2006. Aaron was studying to be a Jewish Rabbi when he discovered Jesus as the Messiah. He has a PHD in computer science and has done advanced scientific work for the Office of Naval Research and DARPA, as well as repairing circuit boards for computers for Apple and the space industries. He also was a professor at the University of Colorado. His skills as a
00:00:00 Introduction to the Interview with Aaron Budgen
Hi friend, I am Rachel Maines, and this is part two of my interview with our ministry partner Aaron Budgen with Living God Ministries. Enjoy the interview. One thing I alluded to earlier was your ability to, well, first of all, simplify, but also pull the whole scriptures together in a way that you can understand. So I’ll start with the fall, Adam and Eve, when they chose the knowledge of the tree of good and evil. You talk about that a lot. And it wasn’t until I listened to your program that I could really understand, oh, okay, so the knowledge of the tree of good and evil, I shall know good and evil, and therefore I can be as God if I understand. And you pull that out to show us that that is the lie. Can you expound upon that? Sure.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, that’s a touchy one. That’s the satanic lie. That was the original lie of the devil that caused the fall of humanity to begin with. That if you only know what is good and evil, then you can be like God. And unfortunately, that has been probably the most popular message in the Christian world ever since the founding of the church. That if you will… know what is good and evil and do what is right and don’t do what is wrong, then you can be, well, we don’t want to say be like God because that would be too obvious. We’ll say, well, we can be like Jesus or we can be a good Christian instead of understanding that there is an important place to the knowledge of good and evil. But this is not the covenant that we are to live by. There’s another covenant that has gone into effect since then. And that is a covenant based on the inheritance that we have, not based on our obedience. It’s based on what he has done for us, not what we do for him. And that’s a challenge, you know, but it’s an important challenge. And often people will abandon the Christian faith because they realize that there’s just no end to that and there’s no success in that. And they feel further away from God than when they first got saved. And I’m very fortunate that on the stations that I’m able to broadcast on, I’m able to catch a lot of those people who were just about ready to just throw in the towel entirely. And they tell me this, and that’s how I know. And then they can move forward. They can move forward in their faith and growing to know the Lord.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, absolutely. And for those like myself who started out with just the simplicity of, you know, knowing the Lord and I wasn’t under any law of any sort. I knew that. But then as I tried to grow my faith and being exposed to different teachings and stuff, then we get all confused. So those people can go to you and get kind of, you know, get clear again on the simplicity of our faith. And it’s just all about relationship with the Lord. And he’s like you say, an active participant in our lives. Yeah. One of the things I want to highlight, too, regarding faith, and I love how you communicate this. You’re a great communicator. When we are afraid that God’s mad at us, you know, after we have received salvation, we have a relationship with him. And then we receive these teachings that are making us think that we aren’t completely forgiven. Then we feel condemned and then it causes us to draw away from him when in reality we need him to be able to live the Christian life. So it’s kind of like a dichotomy here of a lot of teaching saying, hey, if you live by the law, you’re going to be closer to the Lord. He’s going to be happy with you. But the actual opposite effect is happening if we’re living under that, because then we’re pulling away from him because we don’t feel like he loves us. And if we don’t feel like he loves us, then we’re going to go, like you say, to the world to receive what we’re wanting. We’re wanting love and we want to be accepted. So can you expound upon that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, the first thing I want to make sure people understand is that I don’t think that God lives in denial of reality. I’ll be very open with the fact that the Lord and I talk about my sin often. You know, it’s not a… a situation where he just doesn’t consider its existence. I don’t feel that way at all. But the big issue is that we need to address the reasons why we sin, not just deal with the sin itself, but why. And it tends to come down to the fact that we’re looking for a sense of love and acceptance, meaning or purpose. It usually filters down into one of those four categories. And so what people do is they, of course, would like to turn to God to meet their needs for love and acceptance and meaning and purpose. But if they’re being condemned… because of their failure to obey, you know, or their failure to observe because of the sin in their life, then they’re not going to be accepted by God. They’re not going to be loved by him. And so what are they going to do? You know, I mean, this is a real struggle for people in ministry. A big struggle is, you know, what are you going to do if, you know, you don’t think that God loves you, then you still have a need to be loved. you’ve got no alternative but to go into the world and pursue sin. That’s the only alternative. And sometimes those who are the most aggressive about condemning people are often trying to do that to condemn themselves, and they fall into this trap easily. So it’s not dealing with the issue. If we will rest in the love and the acceptance of God, it makes it possible for us to be able to say no to those temptations when we’re actually confronted with them.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
And so that’s something that I’ve really emphasized a lot in the programs that I recorded.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, yeah. And once again, listeners, just go to livinggodministries.net and click on the radio archives. And Aaron has subjects broken down, forgiveness, different topics and stuff that you can click on. They’re just excellent. One thing I want to highlight too, Aaron, is discipleship. Uh, so oftentimes people think discipleship is, you know, following, following the commandments or, you know, following the Bible. But you have a perspective that discipleship, correct me if I’m wrong, is relationship with the Lord. And then he works in your heart. He fulfills your need. So as you understand the complete forgiveness and as you understand the complete rest, then we’re able to be properly discipled. Am I understanding that correctly?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, that’s when you can move forward. Otherwise, you’ll end up being stuck wandering around the wilderness. Right. You can be discipled, and you’ll be discipled by the Lord. I was discipled by the Lord, and that’s also one of the reasons why I’ve been able to easily talk more about him than about me. But, you know, but it really is by him. You know, I can testify of things. I can tell people about the Lord. But if they’re going to really know him, they’re going to have to turn to him personally. And this is where it starts. It starts with understanding that the sin issue is resolved. It starts with the inheritance. And it starts with you asking him questions, and every once in a while he answers them. It could just be when you’re driving down the road or having a meal by yourself or whatever it may be. There’s going to be lots of opportunities for the Lord to speak with you. And allow him the freedom to decide what are you going to be discipled in next. And I’ve done very well with that. A lot of people, they say, well, I’m not growing in this and I’m not growing in that. So where are you growing? Well, that’s because it’s probably where the Lord wants you to grow. And so be thankful.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
And just keep going.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right. I love that. You know, the scripture says my yoke is easy. The burden is light. I know we could probably misuse that, but I’m reminded of that, our relationship with them. It’s not a heavy burden at all. And as we learn to rest, when I get in conversations with friends, I like to say, you know, the Sabbath, let’s go into the law a bit. You know, the Sabbath rest. Well, Jesus is the fulfillment of the Sabbath rest. So you better than anybody understands the fulfillment of the law was meant to bring us to the Lord. So can you go into that some like the Sabbath rest, for example, and some other things that just point towards Jesus, but how people even, you know, in Jesus’s day, they got a bit confused on that regarding the Sabbath and other things that they were doing.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, fulfillment, and I just remember there’s another word, foreshadowing, that’s used. The Sabbath law was a real personal one for me because that was the last law for me to put aside. When I was living my life for a few years devoted to, I’m going to obey all 613 commandments if it kills me.
SPEAKER 01 :
You tried to obey all 116, 16, how many are there?
SPEAKER 1 :
316.
SPEAKER 01 :
316, wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
And in my devotion to that, the Lord, one at a time, showed me how those commandments were intended to be used. And then the Sabbath law was the last one. That was the most difficult. It wasn’t until I was in Hebrews. that I saw that the Sabbath rest was a foreshadowing of us resting in what Christ has done for us, and that I needed to rest in Christ even from my work of resting. And when I saw that, then that was a very important beginning in my being able to really know the Lord. It was the Sabbath law that really made the biggest difference for me was to finally be at rest because of what he has done instead of trying to be at rest because of what I have done.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right. Yeah, I’m sure you have. The Lord helps you have a lot of grace and patience with those. Some of us Christians who would tell you, you know, hey, no, I follow these commandments. But you’re able to say, you know, just like Paul, well, I follow 316 of them. You know, have you ever tried that? You know, so when anybody tries to confront you with this, I think it kind of funny, actually, and ironic that you’re not the person that confronts somebody with that. How else have you helped others to understand the Sabbath rest? What are some other foreshadowings, if you will, in the law that point to Christ? I know everything does, but maybe you can highlight some.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, there are a few that are my favorite that not very many people seem to appreciate.
SPEAKER 01 :
Let’s talk about those.
SPEAKER 03 :
The dietary laws is probably one of my favorite ones, again, because it was important to me. It was an important part of my life. And when I saw that he first used the dietary laws in order to isolate the children of Israel from everybody else, because it really did, economically speaking. I mean, you couldn’t do business with other people. You couldn’t trade with other people. You became very much isolated. And it was important. But then when it was time for the Jew and the Gentile to be united, to be one in Christ Jesus, that was one of the things that God addressed and one of the things that he used in order to unite the Jew and the Gentile to become one in Christ Jesus. And he did that through the vision that was given to Peter and through the discussion that Peter had in the household of Cornelius. That was Acts chapter 10, Acts chapter 11, when it was discovered that a Gentile could actually be saved without first becoming a Jew. In Acts chapter 11, we have that really special passage where the Jews were silent. I mean, that’s profound. And then they recognized that God had granted to the Gentiles repentance to life. That was a big change in the early church. Maybe about 10 years after the church started, they realized that was the case. So I put the dietary laws in that category just because I found it really meaningful to me. And yet, yeah, there are others. But most of what I’ve done is historically based, explaining that Jesus was performing this miracle and this is what the people would have seen and what they would have understood that I think the writers assumed you would know that’s been kind of lost. I don’t get into symbology. There’s a lot of symbolic representations and sometimes the idea of foreshadowing and fulfillment can end up in the category of symbology or some kind of symbolic representation. And the Lord has not given me any unique insights into symbolic representations of passages or events. He’s given me no real insights into prophecy, and so I don’t discuss those topics. But he’s given me some insight into others, and so I’ve been able to do those.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, you’re doing very well. You’re such a blessing, Aaron. I just thank you for your work that you’re doing and helping us to understand historically and just, man, man, the Lord really planned you out in terms of the gifts and who you are. And I see throughout all your life being a Jew and then studying to be a rabbi and then all your other experiences with the banking cartel to PhD in computer science and everything that you’re doing really has blessed us, the body of Christ. with all your skill sets and how you’re able to communicate. So I just want to thank you for the work that you’re doing.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, well, thank you.
SPEAKER 01 :
So Aaron, how do you foresee your ministry in the next two to five years? Where are you headed with Living God Ministries?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, for the next two to five years, I’m going to be teaching through the letters to the Corinthians. And that could take about three years, possibly, to be able to complete that. But then after the letters to the Corinthians, I may not be doing any new recordings. That might be about the time when I would be looking at Living God Ministries starting to wind down a little bit. mainly just because I expect the economy to turn down significantly then. And so at that time, I’ll probably turn more towards writing books to include maybe the Isaiah Journal that I mentioned earlier. But regardless of whether I do new recordings or not, as long as there are donations coming in, those can be used in order to pay radio stations to continually broadcast the programs. And increasingly, people are discovering the programs through the Internet. So the way that I built Living God Ministries was so that it would continue and it would be eternal and everything is… as applicable today as it was when it was first recorded. And it changes lives today just as it did when it was first presented. And I expect it will continue to do so. So it doesn’t require me to build some kind of kingdom or do it until I’m physically dead. I’ve done a lot, and in order to continue to broadcast The programs that I’ve already recorded, there are so many of them that eventually if I don’t find an ending point, then they could easily get lost.
SPEAKER 01 :
True. Well, I mean, you’re building a supercomputer, so you just put them all there and somehow let us access them. I don’t know.
SPEAKER 03 :
I have the equivalent of two supercomputers in my laboratory at home.
SPEAKER 01 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s at home.
SPEAKER 01 :
I can’t even imagine. If you even tried to explain that to me, I’d be like, I don’t comprehend. So, Aaron, I know the Lord, He disciples us, and He’s the living God inside of us. But could you give us some tips how we can read the Bible in the proper context? Some things to consider, because I know even I’ve done this, taking Scripture out of context. and applying it maybe in a way it wasn’t meant to. So how can I go home and study the Bible in a way with some tips where I’m properly understanding?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, of course, I would encourage you to listen to the programs that I recorded.
SPEAKER 01 :
Of course.
SPEAKER 03 :
I have done a lot of verse-by-verse studies. Recently I did the Gospel of John, and that will give you a lot to go on. I’ve done Ephesians and Galatians, and I’m going to do the letters to the Corinthians. And so I’m not going to do them all, but I’ll do a lot. And that can be really helpful. It would be nice if I would spend some time going through the Mosaic Law. I know I would be able to present a lot there. Maybe after two to five years and I’m done with the letters to the Corinthians, maybe that’ll be what I do if there’s enough funding available.
SPEAKER 01 :
I would love for you to do that.
SPEAKER 03 :
But, you know, apart from all of that, I would encourage people to ask some questions. Ask some questions like, God, what were you thinking? Lord, what were you doing? What did you see? What did you hear? What did you understand, you know? And I think that with questions like that, you will know when he speaks to you because something will come to mind that you know you definitely would never have thought of ever in your life. And you might want to write that down, you know, and put a date on it and say, the Lord spoke to me and he answered this question. This is what he had to say. And boy, it was funny, you know. Things like that are, I think, more valuable than going through the scriptures from the perspective of an academic exercise. I know academic exercise. I’ve written advanced computer science theoretical courses. I’ve done spectacularly well. I’ve got piles of letters of appreciation from former students and everything. I know what it is to open a book. and go through it as an academic exercise. But I’ll tell you, the Bible is not like that at all. And while I know of a lot of people who’ve put their whole lives into doing that, I think in many ways you can easily miss out on the person the person who’s testified of in the Bible, in the Scriptures. So as long as we stay focused on him as a person, then that gives him the freedom and the ability to share things with us he wouldn’t be able to share otherwise.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Even if it’s as simple as what were you thinking?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, I know. And obviously he has a great sense of humor and he likes to also, you know, be with us in the sense of humor. And I, you know, when you said that on one of your archives, I was like, wow, it kind of opened my eyes to you. Even myself with the Bible, kind of looking at it as an academic exercise versus seeing it as, yeah, the Bible is amazing, but it testifies of a person. So we can get so off track with that.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s the default when you don’t know the person.
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, I like that. Wow. Wow. Some powerful stuff here, Aaron. I would love to have you back on the Corner Cafe and just keep up with you and what you’re doing. For someone now who is listening and they’re like, you know what? I may have been in Christianity my whole life, but I don’t think I know the person. Could you just speak to them right now and share with them what do they have to do to come to know the Lord?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I would say that if a person recognizes that, that they don’t know him as a person very well, then that’s fantastic. Even if it’s at the very end of their life and they finally come to that point, I think the Lord would see that as success. Just to have that beginning is very exciting, and I would encourage people to keep moving in that direction. The work that I’ve done, again, it testifies of him, but if they want to know him, I can’t give them a relationship just like you and I have a relationship in a way, and I can’t just give that relationship to somebody else and say, okay, I’m going to assign it over to this person. Maybe I’ll sell it in some way. You can’t do that. So everyone has to take responsibility for themselves and pursue these things.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. Yeah, I love the way you communicate, Aaron. For those also, like myself, we’re just looking for some good teaching. We can go to livinggodministries.net. But are you going to be starting any fellowship groups or any conferences in the near future?
SPEAKER 03 :
No. I’ve only been available to the public once in the last five years or so, almost five years. I did a seminar in Castle Rock, and people came in from all over the country. And I didn’t even advertise it. It was just word of mouth more than anything. And that was nice. So in a few more years, I intend to start traveling and holding conferences and seminars. I might start doing conferences sometime later this year. I need to write a book for one. And I have that on my list of things to do. So, you know, I may be available to the public a little bit in that way. But I pastored a church for, I think it was 17 years. And I don’t think I’m going to continue to do that. You know, I let that go, like I said, about five years ago. And that’s just not so much for me. I have been producing videos on my own. This is outside of Living God Ministries and a lot of Bible studies. around the world have started just by using those videos. So, you know, I am kind of available, and people can send me emails and ask me questions that way. But now that I am old, I’m going to kind of wind down from the public stuff so much. I need to wait until my children are well-established as adults, which will be a few years. And then I’ll travel a little bit, but still it won’t be more than just a few times a year.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. Well, yeah, understandably so. You’ve done such a great work and you’ve planned it out to keep on going even when you kind of wind down with your website and all your teachings and stuff. So I think it would be great for those who listen to start some community because it can get kind of lonely sometimes not having other believers that we feel like we can really talk to things, deep things like this about with and are maybe just having somebody who’s like-minded. I’m sure you get a lot of those folks kind of asking you, where can I go? for fellowship or how can I get connected to like-minded people?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, that’s the most popular struggle, I think, that people have had. And I asked the Lord about this once, and I believe that he responded and told me that it’s important for people to feel that way because that’s what’s needed for them to reach out to others who don’t know him very well. I found that to be an obstacle when I was pastoring a church, that people just came every week. And I would ask them every once in a while, why are you here? And they say, well, we’re here just to listen to you. I say, you know, I don’t need an audience. I don’t need that.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s what I love about you, Aaron, is that you’re very direct. Yeah, I’m sure it surprises people sometimes, too. Like, I don’t know how to respond to you.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s a common problem that people misunderstand my kindness for weakness. And when my strength shows up, it will knock people off balance tremendously. Yeah.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, thank you so much, Aaron, for coming on the show. And we just love everything you’re doing and being a valued partner on KLTT. And so I just want to once again thank you and say keep up the good work. And I know you will. I understand that you’re going to be winding things down, but this is going to last for eternity. So thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, well, thank you for having me.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thanks for tuning in to my interview with our ministry partner, Aaron Budgen with Living God Ministries. And you can tune in to Aaron’s program Monday through Friday at 9.30 a.m. and Monday through Friday at 5 p.m. And make sure to check out Aaron’s website at livinggodministries.net.
