Have you ever pondered why people still hold onto ancient faith beliefs in the modern world, or how Christians perceive concepts like the afterlife and resurrection? In this enlightening episode, Steve Gregg addresses these pressing questions while interacting with listeners. From the story of Esther and her Persian King to the deep theological discussions around judgment, Steve brings biblical narratives to life. Listeners have the chance to call in, engage with complex biblical passages, and learn how those ancient texts apply to current issues. Steve further explores personal anecdotes and insights, revealing why he remains steadfast in his Christian
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 09 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon taking your calls so that you can call in and we can talk about the questions you may raise on the air about the Bible or about the Christian faith. If you have questions, maybe you’ve got problems, challenges, objections to the Bible or to the Christian faith. feel free to give me a call. If you disagree with the host about something, even if you’re a fellow Christian and have a different viewpoint, you’re welcome to call to balance comment. The number to call is 844-484-5737. I’m looking at a couple of open lines here. If you want to call now, you’ve got a good chance of getting through, perhaps a better chance right now than you will have later on in the program. The number is 844- 484-5737. One announcement, well, a couple of announcements have to be made. One is that this Wednesday is the first Wednesday of the month, and on the first Wednesday of each month in the evening, that is the evening Pacific time, 7 o’clock Pacific time in the evening, but of course, any time zone can join us for it. There’s a Zoom meeting. These are usually Q&A sessions, but once in a while I’m asked to teach on a certain subject, so I’m going to be teaching I’m going to give a talk called Why I Am Still a Christian. And this is particularly relevant for those perhaps who think that maybe there were reasons for people to be Christians in a pre-scientific age or in more ancient times. Maybe it was more forgivable that people would be Christians in times of ignorance. But why, at this late date, would someone still be a Christian? Or perhaps some people listening have been Christians in the past and they gave it up. And they think they have reasons, maybe good reasons, they think, for giving it up. Usually these have to do, most of these reasons, generally speaking, are emotional reasons or very subjective reasons, but maybe they have others too. But I haven’t given up. I’ve been a Christian since I was a child. And I’m 72 years old, and I’m still as much a Christian as I’ve been every day of my life since I was converted. Now, why? Why wouldn’t I give it up? Have I had no disappointments in life? Have I had no challenges presented to me? Well, I want to tell you why I’m still a Christian, still in the sense of historically, in modern times, is it still credible to be a Christian? And also personally, why I’ve hung it out, I’ve stuck it out, I should say. And not everyone does. And what would be the difference between somebody who abandoned their Christianity and somebody like myself. Well, I’ll be glad to tell you that’s going to be what I discuss Wednesday night on our Zoom meeting, 7 o’clock Pacific time. If you’re in a different time zone, make the adjustments. If you want to join us for that, that’s Wednesday night. You can go to our website, thenarrowpath.com, look under announcements, and all the login information for that Zoom meeting is there waiting to be accessed and used. Now, the other announcement I want to make is I’ve got a whole bunch of meetings in the Seattle area starting, I guess my first one is going to be this coming Sunday, if I’m not mistaken. Yeah, Sunday. And running through, I believe, the following Sunday, maybe the following Monday, too, right? No, just Sunday. So a whole week. I’ll be in various places in Seattle almost every night. In fact, we had one night still free, which was Monday, and I just got an email today from someone who might want to book me for that. Or maybe that will be a daytime booking. I’m not sure. Anyway, this is a pretty full week if you’re in the Seattle area or in western Washington State because I’m down, I think, Sunday. I’m down south of Tacoma. And I’m up in Arlington on another date, not too long after that, so I’m all over the place. But if you, you know, I’m probably at a location near you if you’re in western Washington. So you can check our website for those and feel free to join us at any of them. Again, that’s at thenarrowpath.com under the tab that says Announcement. All right, well, let’s go to the phones. And, again, the phone number if you want to call. It is 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484-5737. I’m going to talk first to Barbara from Roseville, Michigan. Hi, Barbara. Welcome. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, thank you, Steve. My question today is about Queen Esther. What nationality or origin was her husband? And did they have any children? And did they use birth control in biblical times? And I’ll take my answer off the air.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right. Well, of course, Esther was Jewish, but her husband was Persian. He was the king of Persia. So we assume he was a Persian man. The Bible doesn’t tell us reference to his ethnicity, but I believe I think all the kings of Persia were Persian men. And in the Bible, his name is Ahasuerus. He is known to be the same Persian king that was known also as Xerxes. And so, yeah, he was a Persian, which is Iranian. We’d say Iranian today. Now, as far as whether they had children, we don’t know if they did or not. They may have. The Bible doesn’t tell us, and we wouldn’t really have any way of knowing. unless it did. Did they have birth control in biblical times? Well, they didn’t have the modern forms, of course. Modern birth control is kind of a high-tech invention, whether it’s the pharmaceutical type or the, we could say, what should we call it, mechanical types of birth control. But way back in the book of Genesis, people attempted birth control and sometimes succeeded. No form of birth control is foolproof, even in our day, even with our high-tech forms of birth control. There’s still plenty of people who have gotten pregnant while using them. So, you know, God is kind of more powerful than our technology. If God wants there to be a baby, they labor in vain, not seek to prevent it. But there was, we do know, there’s testimony in the book of Genesis of people onan who who practiced what we call today withdrawal as a form of birth control it apparently worked for him but it didn’t work out for him because he was killed by god god was not pleased with his actions all right let’s uh talk to gavin from river rouge michigan hi gavin welcome it’s kevin oh kevin okay gotcha well it says gavin on my screen go ahead oh hi don’t steve yeah um
SPEAKER 01 :
I just want to make a brief statement. I promise it’ll be brief, and then get to my question. I got saved in 73 in Frankfurt. I’m 72. I’ve talked to you before. I’m just beginning now to realize how little I know Jesus Christ. I knew all about him, even as a Christian going to church, whatnot, as a born-again Christian, yet we talked about the apathy of the Word of God and I think the leap of faith that Kierkegaard had coined is very predominant in the church. I’ll get to my question that it’s in 1 Peter 1, verse 23. I’m puzzled as to the word incorruptible, meaning that a lot of people might assume that might be people believing in reincarnation, or I know it says silver and gold are forefathers. Could you… Elaborate and clarify that verse for me, please.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay. I’m not really sure why anyone would think it’s relevant to reincarnation. Peter says that his audience have been born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible seed, through the word of God, which lives and abides forever. Now, corruptible, in modern English, we usually use the word corrupt to speak of maybe ethically or morally corrupt, like corrupt politicians or something. Um, but the word corruptible is an older word that means perishable and incorruptible means imperishable. So he’s saying that, you know, we have been born, uh, the first time, of course, from our parents with, from corruptible or perishable seed, our bodies will die. Um, and obviously the sperm doesn’t last forever, so it’s perishable. But we have also been born a second time, spiritually, with imperishable seed, which is the Word of God. Now, the idea that the Word of God is like seed comes from all kinds of things in the Bible. I mean, Jesus used the word seed in his first great parable of the sower, and the seed represented the Word of God. And if it took root… and continued to grow in the soil, then it would last to eternal life, basically, be incorruptible. Now, the word of God is incorruptible. That is, it’s imperishable. It won’t ever rot. It won’t ever wear out. It doesn’t have a shelf life. God’s word is eternal. And that’s what Peter is saying. Now, I don’t really know what. anyone would think that has to do with reincarnation, but just in case anyone does, it doesn’t have anything to do with it. Okay. We’re going to talk to Rich in Los Angeles, which kind of sounds like sleepless in Seattle or something. Rich in Los Angeles, welcome.
SPEAKER 11 :
No, I’m awake.
SPEAKER 09 :
You’re awake? You’re awake, and you’re rich.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, I think, yeah, born again, I think, under what Kevin’s question was. Awake but not woke. I’m sorry, go on. Awake but not woke. Definitely not woke. Go ahead. Yeah, listen, a couple of weeks ago a guy called, I’ll do this briefly, and just essentially said he reads through the Bible every year and just wanted to thank you for your website and all of your teaching and how it’s really opened his eyes. I don’t read through the Bible every year, but I sure echo his comments. I mean, I just… You’ve opened up so many things for me, and I’m just so grateful. My question relates to Revelation 20, and maybe a simple question, but I don’t know about the answer. Is there a physical resurrection in Revelation 20? Yes. Or either sheep or goats?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, yeah, there is a physical resurrection there. at the end of Revelation 20, because it says in verse 12, I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God. The books were opened. Another book was opened, etc. And it says in verse 13, the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and death and Hades, they delivered up the dead. Now, Hades is, of course, the grave. So, Jesus said in Matthew chapter 5, verse 28 and 29, marvel not at this, for the hour is coming in which All who were in the graves will hear his voice and come forth. So this is that resurrection that Jesus spoke of where they come out of Hades and out of death and they come alive again. And it’s the first resurrection. That is the only resurrection. Yeah. Now, there’s a there’s a resurrection that’s called the first resurrection in verses five and six. And it says, but the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years. Well, it says in verse six. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God in Christ. They shall reign with him a thousand years. Now, the first resurrection is a reference to, in my opinion, the first coming to life from the dead that a Christian experiences, which is a spiritual resurrection. We were dead in trespasses and sins. But we are now made alive in Christ. That’s our first resurrection. And then at the end of the thousand years, which I take to be the end of the church age, there is the second coming of Christ and the physical resurrection. So that’s going to be our second one. Now, it does say that those who aren’t the believers, the rest of the dead, they don’t experience the first resurrection. They haven’t come alive from the dead. They are spiritually dead still. The only resurrection they will have is a physical resurrection, but we have, prior to that, a spiritual resurrection. Remember, John wrote Revelation, and he’s giving this explanation. A lot of things in Revelation, he’s just describing what he saw and what he’s told and so forth. Hi, Dan. Hi. Without, you know, making his own comments. This is his own, a friend of mine from a long ago just walked into the room. Anyway, so John gives his own comment here. And remember, John, who’s making this comment, also wrote the Gospel of John. And there, in John 5, Jesus said in verse 24, Most assuredly I say to you, he who hears my word and believes in him who sent me, has everlasting life and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. So Jesus is talking to people who were living at the time, had not yet physically died, but they had passed from death into life by believing in him. So that’s a coming from death to life. And in verse 25, the next verse, he says, Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming and now is. when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. Well, he said, okay, this is true of the future and of the present. The time is coming and now is. And, of course, I already mentioned verse 28. He said, do not marvel at this for the hour is coming. He doesn’t say and now is. In which all who are in the graves will hear his voice and come forth. So there’s an hour coming in the future. When all who are in the graves, that’s physical bodies, will hear his voice and come forth. He said some to the resurrection of life, some to the resurrection of condemnation. So this includes the righteous and the unrighteous in a certain hour. There’s an hour coming when all who are in the graves will come out, the righteous and the unrighteous. But he has said there’s an hour coming and now is when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God. And those who hear will live. Well, okay, he’s told us in verse 28 what the hour is coming is. It’s the future physical resurrection. But what’s the now is? Well, that’s what he described in the previous verse 24.
SPEAKER 11 :
And you take that to be in Revelation 20, 12, the great and the small.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, well, I believe the great and the small simply means everybody.
SPEAKER 11 :
You know, I mean, everybody. Okay, so believers and unbelievers. And that would be John 5, 28.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, 528. I think that to understand the first resurrection, we have to look as far back as John 5, 24 and 25. But of the physical resurrection, it’s John 5, 28 and 29. Yeah. Okay. Thanks so much. All right. Good talking to you, Rich. Love your teaching. Thank you. Bye now. All right. Let’s talk to Mike in cool California. California is not always cool, but this town is always cool. Hello, Mike. Welcome.
SPEAKER 04 :
Good afternoon, Steve. Great talking to you again. So my question is, when as Christians we stand before God on the great judgment seat for our good works and our bad works, when do those good works and bad works that we’re being judged for start as we become saved or our whole lifetime? And the second part to that would be, if it’s when we are saved What do people who are on their dead best conversions get judged for?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, okay, that’s a good question. Everyone, Christian and non-Christian, the Bible says, will be judged according to their works. Every passage in the Bible that talks about the judgment, all the New Testament writers who speak of it, and that’s plenty of them, mention it’s a judgment of works. Remember, Jesus talked about the sheep and the goats, they’re judged by works. You know, I was naked and you clothed me. I was hungry and you fed me. Or you didn’t. And their fate is determined on how they did or did not respond to him when they met him, which was his brethren. He says, when you did it to my brethren, you did it to me. Paul says in Romans chapter 2 that God will judge everyone according to his works. And he then unpacks that to include believers and unbelievers. Because he says… Verse 5, well, verse 6, Romans 2, 6, who will render to each one according to his deeds eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality, but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation, and wrath. tribulation and anguish on every soul of man who does evil, to the Jew first and also to the Greek, but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, the Jew first and also the Greek. So Paul, he’s talking about the judgment where God will render to each one according to his works, and some receive, you know, wrath, and some receive eternal life. And he says it’s on the basis of what they did. And we have that, you know, we have a lot of references to the judgment. You know, Peter says, In 1 Peter 1, in verse 17, he says, If you call God your Father, who without respect of persons judges every man according to his own works, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear. Now, he’s talking to Christians who call God their Father. And he says God will judge everyone according to their works without partiality, he said. And that’s the occasion for us living in the fear of God in this life. So Revelation 20 also talks about how everyone’s judged according to their works. works in Revelation 20 and verse 12. And there’s more, but we don’t have time to go through all of them. So what works are we talking about? Well, all their works. But there is a special case with the Christian who comes to Christ and repents. Because when you repent, that too is a significant work. That, I mean, repentance, according to the promise of God, expunges the record of all previous evil works. That’s what repentance is about. And faith is So when we come to Christ, even if it’s as a thief on the cross in our dying breath, if it’s genuine, then, of course, it expunges all the past. And those works don’t remain on the record to be tested on the day of judgment. Now, after we’re converted, we still do works, obviously. I mean, the Bible says that God created us for good works. which he has foreordained that we should walk in them in Ephesians 2.10. And Titus chapter 2 and verse 14 says that Christ redeemed us from every lawless deed to be zealous for good works. So obviously the Christian life is composed of good works, but we’re not saved because of our good works. We’re saved because of Christ. We’re saved because we belong to Christ. But our belonging to Christ bears evidence. If we really are Christ, if we really have surrendered to Christ, it’ll show in the way we live. Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, Lord? You don’t do what I say. In other words, I don’t believe that you mean it when you say I’m your Lord, if you don’t do what I say. Clearly, a person who is a true Christian lives a Christian life, which is a life of obedience. So the Christian has no fear of the judgment. Because all past sins are expunged, and the life that is lived afterward is a life of obedience to Christ. Now, of course, Christians fail too. James said we all stumble. But as with the expunging of all of our other past sins when we repented, if we sin after we’ve been converted, we need to repent again. And it says in 1 John 1.9, if we confess our sins, he’s talking to Christians, If we confess our sins, he’s faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So Christ is the only salvation we have, but we will be seen to be his on the judgment when Exhibit A comes out, which is our works. Anyone who really is a follower of Christ, well, follows Christ. And following Christ is obedience to him. So on the day of judgment… God won’t have to judge us on whether we claim to have believed or not. He can bring out the evidence. The evidence is if you do believe, it’ll show. And that’s why Jesus said in Matthew 7, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven. And so we’re judged on that basis. Now, I mean, some people have an idea of salvation that’s probably based on a much more watered-down conception of greasy grace or whatever some people call it, hyper-grace. But in other words, their view is that since we’re saved by grace, the way we live doesn’t matter at all. We maybe should do good things, but it doesn’t matter very much if we do or not because we’re going to be saved no matter how we live. And there are people walking around who think they are Christians because someone told them they’re saved by grace. And yet they have no evidence that they’re saved by grace or anything else. They’re not living saved. What are we saved from? We’re saved from our sins, Jesus said. And the angel said that to Joseph. His name shall be called Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins in Matthew chapter 1. And, of course, Jesus said, whoever sins is a slave of sin, but if the Son sets you free, you’ll be free indeed. So what Jesus saves us from is our sinfulness. And so if I’ve been saved from my sinfulness, then my life is going to look different because it won’t be a sinful life. It won’t be free from all sin because we all stumble. But it will mean that if I do sin, I’m going to be very concerned to repent about that and to amend my ways the best I know how and trusting God to give me more strength and more grace in the next temptation. But see, the very act of doing that will tell you whether I’m committed to Christ or not. Because if I’m committed to Christ… I will very much grieve any sin I commit because I’ll realize that that goes against where my commitments are. Just like if a man is committed to not wasting any money and then he finds out he made a bad investment, he kicks himself for it. He makes every effort to not do it again because his conviction is that he doesn’t want to waste any money. Now, if a Christian is a person whose conviction is that they want to follow Christ, then when they fail to do so at any moment, they regret that. They repent and they amend their ways. That’s just what being a Christian looks like. So we’ll be judged by our works, the Bible says. But you see, an unbeliever’s works, generally speaking, are all done for selfish reasons, which puts a pall of sin upon them. But the Christian’s works, at least after conversion, are works that are done in an effort to please God and a desire to please God and out of a commitment to being a disciple of Jesus. And so those works will obviously show a trajectory that points to whether you’re saved or not. And like you said, the thief on the cross, obviously he didn’t have any works after his conversion, but his final action was, And works basically in that context means actions. When James said faith without works is dead, he means our actions have to conform to what we say we believe or else we don’t really believe it. And the final action or works of the thief on the cross was to repent. And that tends to, of course, erase all other works that would have condemned him. By the way, knowledge that that is true may cause some people to say well I don’t think I’ll repent until I’m dying because I like to live it up and live in sin and then I’ll repent when I die but actually if you know what God wants you to do and you’re saying no to God now you’re not remaining unchanged your heart doesn’t stay unchanged if you’re saying no to God knowingly your heart’s getting harder and if it gets hard enough you won’t be able to change even on your deathbed though you may desperately wish you could there have been many who have found it impossible though they were counting on doing so when they were younger. Well, we’re going to take a break. We have another half hour coming, so don’t go away. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. We are listener-supported. You can write to us at The Narrow Path, PO Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593, or go to our website, thenarrowpath.com. I’ll be back in 30 seconds. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 07 :
Do you find that reading the Bible leaves you scratching your head with more new questions than you had before you read it, but don’t know where to go for answers? You may be interested then in Steve Gregg’s many online lectures, downloadable without charge from our website, thenarrowpath.com. There’s no charge for anything at thenarrowpath.com. Visit us there and be amazed at all you have been missing.
SPEAKER 09 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for another half hour, taking your calls. If you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith or anything like that, feel free to give me a call. We’ll do our best to answer your questions. The number is 844-484-5737. Our next caller, it looks like, is Melinda in Redwood Valley, California. Hi. Welcome to the Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hi, Steve. It’s Melinda. We met recently in Ukiah. Thanks so much for coming up.
SPEAKER 09 :
Great. Yeah. I thought it was probably Melinda. Sorry.
SPEAKER 05 :
Go ahead. um so i was taking a walk earlier it just felt like something dawned on me and i wanted to run it by you in the bible but like you know there was a beautiful gentle breeze and there’s the spring flowers and i was just thinking like all of these like universally like pleasant things that exist in our world um obviously god knows full well that they exist and i would imagine that he’d that he knows that they are pleasant to us and they lift our spirits. Like, compare being in a raging sea storm in the middle of the ocean. That’s not pleasant. It’s scary. And then you have these things like beautiful weather, and it’s like a comfort to the soul. So I was just wondering, like, how do you view these things? Like, are these not so much just sort of vague, passive, like pleasant byproducts, or are they very, like, intentional things?
SPEAKER 09 :
gifts from God and like could we look at that as one way that he manifests his love like is that not just a flowery thought or is that like outright true well Paul said in Romans chapter 1 that we can learn the invisible things of God by observing the things that he has made so apparently he intends for us to recognize what kind of a God he is what his character is like and so forth by observing the creation so many people have I think rightfully, observe that there’s a great super abundance of pleasantness in what God has created. I mean, there’s an awful lot of colors that probably the world could have done without. You know, there’s all kinds of pleasures that are not necessary for our survival. I mean, some of the pleasures in our lives are necessary for human survival, but there’s plenty of them that are not. I mean, for example, God wouldn’t have had to make food taste good. We would have to eat it anyway. We’d have to eat to survive anyway, but God made food with a huge variety of pleasant tastes. The world could have been all in black and white instead of in living color. It still would have been okay, but apparently dogs live in a world like that, but we don’t. I do see the superabundance of a variety of pleasant things that are not essential to survival as simply God’s generosity. So I do think we see God’s generosity there. Now, some people would say, well, listen, when I look at nature, I get the opposite intention. I see these horrors of the insect world. And when we watch lions chasing zebras in a palace and grabbing them by the throat and draining their blood out like that while they lay helpless. I mean, how could a good God do that? Yeah. I don’t know that I can explain everything like that. I would say there are things in the world that are less than pleasant from my perspective, but some of them I believe I can attribute to the fall. Maybe not all of them, but I would say the world is a lot worse in some ways than it would have been had we remained in the Garden of Eden. So we can blame man for that, not God, but The interesting thing is even in a fallen world where there’s a great deal of violence and bloodshed and, of course, human evil, which is not God’s fault, there’s still an incredible amount of opportunity to just enjoy things that God didn’t have to give us. And it says in James, you know, every good gift and every pleasant gift comes down from the Father of lights. You know, that is, it’s a gift from God. So I think your instincts are correct. I mean, when you look at things, you just, you know, gasp at the beauty of them. A sunset or, I mean, and there’s so many different kinds of beautiful places, you know. And, you know, I’d say that God, yeah, this is just God showing off his handiwork for us and for our pleasure and his. You know, there’s all kinds of interesting stuff and beautiful things he’s made. and weird-looking stuff, too, like at the bottom of this deep sea, some weird-looking creatures, which no human being ever saw until recent times. But God saw them. For thousands of years, God saw them and apparently took pleasure in them. So he must make some of these things for his own pleasure, but he made us capable of appreciating them, too, because, after all, it’s much more enjoyable to enjoy something if you’ve got somebody who shares in the enjoyment of it. So, yeah, I would say that’s correct. God enjoys it, and we do too.
SPEAKER 05 :
Can I ask one more question?
SPEAKER 09 :
Sure.
SPEAKER 05 :
So I was reading a Bible study, and I’m sure this could apply to the Psalms and all kinds of things, but in this Bible study, it was about God’s love and such, and they quoted Zephaniah 3.17, The Lord your God is with you, the mighty warrior who saves. He will take great delight in you. In his love, he will no longer rebuke you, but will rejoice over you with singing. My question is, can I look at that as a… Not a personal message to me, but can I take that as me as the audience? Or are these things really you need to be looking at them just obviously in context and whoever that was being addressed to? Like, is it appropriate for that to be in a Bible study about God’s love and his care?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, you know, obviously the promises in the Old Testament, generally speaking, are made to people other than ourselves, notably the nation of Israel. But some of the passages, especially in the prophets, are addressed specifically to the remnant, which is identified with the body of Christ, of which we are a part. For example, in just a few verses before that, in verse 13 it says, The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness and speak no lies, nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth. For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, and no one shall make them afraid. This is… This is a reference to the remnant of Israel when the Messiah would come. Now, the Messiah came, and he poured out his spirit at Pentecost on the remnant, the faithful remnant of Israel. They became what we call the church in Jerusalem. And eventually Gentiles like us became part of that. So we’re part of that remnant now, too. So when he says only a few verses later, the Lord your God in the midst of you, The mighty one will save. This is almost certainly referring to that group of people that is the faithful remnant. And that does apply to the church. Because, again, the faithful remnant on the day of Pentecost were the Jews who were faithful to God and who received the Messiah. But they were also called the church. That’s where the word church comes from. It’s from the early chapters of the book of Acts. They’re referred to as the church. That’s the same church. That we’re part of now, the body of Christ as Gentiles. So that entity is the recipient of these promises. Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Awesome. Well, thank you so much.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right, Melinda. Thank you for your call.
SPEAKER 06 :
Of course. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right. God bless you. Bye now. Okay. Let’s see. Our next caller is Robert from Red Bluff, California. Robert, welcome.
SPEAKER 12 :
Hey, Steve. How’s it going?
SPEAKER 09 :
Good. Thanks.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, hey, I just had a question for you that came out of a reading in Daniel 7. I’ve heard you talk and teach and comment a lot on the ten horns, the ten kings, and the little horn, but I’m wondering if you have any thoughts, comments, or insight on the three kings that are uprooted or subdued by the little horn.
SPEAKER 09 :
You know, I don’t have any original thoughts about this, but it is thought by most of the historicist commentators on this, that the three ribs in the mouth between its teeth are Babylon, Lydia, and Egypt. Now, you’re talking about in verse 5, aren’t you?
SPEAKER 12 :
I’m specifically looking at verse 8 and verse… Okay, verse 8. Verse 8 and then in the interpretation, verse… Where’s it come from? Yeah, where the little horn is said to subdue the three kings.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, because in verse 5 it also talks about a bear, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. That bear, of course, is believed to be Mediapersia. Now, the fourth beast is the Roman Empire, and that’s the one that it says it had ten horns, and let’s see, there’s a little horn… In verse 8, three of the first horns were plucked out by it. Yeah, I’ll tell you, there are different views about this beast. Some think it’s a future, you know, beast. But most Christians throughout history have thought that this is a reference to the Roman Empire and that the little horn… is what arose after the Roman Empire. And so the Protestant reformers all believed that that little horn was the papacy. And so they would say that the three horns were plucked up by the papacy. Now, I don’t know how they identified them, but I’ll tell you if you read their commentaries, they would say what they believe. Apparently the papacy reduced or conquered or whatever three different nations when it came to power. But I don’t have the names of those nations ready because, frankly, the nations in those days were different nations than exist today. We’re talking about things like, you know, the Burgundians and, you know, the Ostrogoths and the Visigoths and, you know, those kinds of nations that existed back then. And I frankly forget which ones it is said that the papacy uprooted. Of course, not everyone agrees that the Little Horn is the papacy, but that’s That’s the view that was held by the reformers. Most futurists, like dispensations today, believe that this is some future Antichrist, and they don’t have any suggestions as far as I know of what those three horns would be that are plucked up. But the historicists who believe this is the papacy, there’s some ancient kingdoms that apparently when the papacy arose it was at the expense of them. I don’t remember the details of that particular point. I’ve read their commentaries before. But again, the nations, the ten nations they refer to are not modern nations at all. They’re the Angles and the Saxons and the Burgundians and the, you know, Germanic tribes and things like that. So I don’t remember what their answer would be about that. Now, you know, there’s not very many historicist commentators out there anymore, although there are some older ones, like people like Matthew Henry would be a historicist and And if you have the treasury of biblical knowledge or scriptural knowledge, that has comments on these things. But I don’t have it in front of me. So I can’t help you. But I do know that all all historians as commentators have something to say about that. For sure. Well, yeah, no worries. Thanks for taking my call and appreciate you. OK, well, God bless you, Robert. Sorry, I can’t help you more. No worries. Thank you. All right. Bye now. OK, let’s talk to Craig in Canton, Michigan. Craig, welcome.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hi, Steve. I’d like to really thank you for taking my call. My pleasure. Okay. I’ve got a pretty common question about what happens after death in terms of is the person conscious at all or unconscious? And it appears that the Bible has answers that don’t agree. Like Luke 16 with the rich man and Lazarus talked with Abraham. Matthew 17, Moses and Elijah talked with Jesus. 1 Samuel 28, dead Samuel appears before Saul. Then in Ecclesiastes, of course, chapter 9, verse 5, the dead know nothing. So it seems that it doesn’t agree. So I wonder what your thoughts on that are.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, the Bible doesn’t really speak very often about the state of the dead. You mentioned Lazarus and the rich man parable in Luke chapter 16, verse 19 to the end of the chapter. If that story is a true story, then it is saying that both the righteous and the unrighteous have a conscious existence after death. In that story, they were both in Hades, but in different compartments. One was in the compartment called Abram’s bosom, and the other was in a compartment that was for the punishment of the sinners. So if that story is intended to give us information about the afterlife, then we could say both the righteous and the unrighteous are conscious after death, though we would not be able from that story to say that they are conscious for a very long time after, as they might be, In the story, it’s apparently just after these people have died that they see each other in the afterlife. And the man who’s in the flames begs Abraham to send Lazarus back to warn his living brothers. Obviously, his living brothers have not died yet, so this is shortly after he’s gone to the flames. Now, if this is telling us that the righteous and the unrighteous are alive and conscious after death, I say if because there’s several different views on this. Some people think it’s a true story. Some think it’s a parable. And some think it’s simply an illustration taken from rabbinic usage, since there were several rabbinic stories very much like it, and that Jesus is borrowing a rabbinic tale and putting his own spin on it to make a point. But that point was not necessarily what happens to people after they die, because The point of the story ends up being, at the end, that if people do not receive the law and the prophets, as if they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t believe even if a man comes back alive from the dead, which probably is a cryptic allusion to Jesus, that if the Jews are not believing the revelation God gave them through Moses and the prophets, they’re already hardened against God and will not be impressed when Jesus rises from the dead either, which is a pretty accurate prediction. And some think that that’s the message of the story. Now, there are people who believe that it is a true story. And if it is, then, of course, it is telling us something about things. But it doesn’t tell us all we would want to know. Because even if it tells us that the good man and the bad man are both still conscious after death, it doesn’t tell us that they remain conscious for a very long time, especially the man who’s in flames. Unless he’s made of asbestos, he might have burned up shortly after the conversation. We don’t know. There’s not much said about, in fact, that’s the only story in the Bible that tells anything about the unrighteous dead. Most of the things that the Bible says about life after death, and there’s not much, are about Christians’ life after death, because we have eternal life. In John 5, verse 24, Jesus said, He that hears these words of mine and believes in him that sent me has everlasting life. Not will have, but has everlasting life. and has passed from death and life. So Christians already have eternal life. And that, to my mind, means that when my body dies, I don’t die. I am not my body. I live in my body. Paul talked about being present in the body and absent from the body. While we’re alive, he said we’re present in the body and absent from the Lord. But he said we’re eager to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. That’s in 2 Corinthians 5. in the early verses of that chapter. And then in Philippians chapter 1, Paul said he’s eager, because he was in prison fairly miserable, he said, I’m eager to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. That is, I’d like to die and go be with Jesus. That’d be better than this. So it seems like Paul did believe that when he died, he would be in the presence of Christ in a better situation, and he’d be present with the Lord. So I understand Paul to be correct about that, that when a Christian dies… we continue to be in the presence of Christ alive until the resurrection of the body comes at the end of time when Jesus returns. Now, there’s several positions that could be taken from this. It could be taken that all people have continuing consciousness after death because we have eternal life. And then, of course, we have that story of Lazarus and the rich man who are still alive. But some might say, that the rich man, we aren’t told that he lived for very long in the flames. He might have, but we’re not told. So we don’t really have any information about unbelievers having a continuing existence for long after they die. And maybe only Christians live, you know, on after death. And then the unbelievers do not. They have soul sleep until the resurrection, perhaps. Then they are taken to the judgment and thrown in the lake of fire, the Bible says. There’s different views. Now, you mentioned that Ecclesiastes 9 says the dead know nothing at all. You need to be careful about trying to form any kind of doctrine from Ecclesiastes because Solomon… if you’ll read the book, is telling us that he was far from God. And he was looking for answers among everything that’s under the sun, meaning not in heaven. Things that are not taking God into account. Just here on the earthly level, he was looking for answers. He was looking for meaning. And he tried all kinds of things to find satisfaction. He says he tried women. He tried alcohol. He tried parties. He tried horticulture. He tried money. He tried all kinds of things. And he was a man who had opportunity more than any other man probably until modern times, he had access to all those things more than most men do. And he said again and again, it’s all emptiness. It’s all emptiness. And at the end he said, let us hear the end of the matter. You know, fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Now, in the course of telling about his past life, and this is very similar to, you know, if you went to a church and maybe some famous celebrity was giving their testimony about how they got saved, and they told, well, I was a Buddhist before, and I thought reincarnation was true. Or I was an atheist, and I thought you don’t know anything when you die or whatever. Well, that’s kind of what Solomon’s doing. He’s telling the story about his life away from God. He’s not recommending it. And in chapter 9, verse 1 of Ecclesiastes, he says, I considered all this in my heart. This is what I was thinking at the time. And a few verses later, he says, the dead know nothing at all. The living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing at all. Well, that’s what he thought. He’s not saying that that’s what’s true any more than if I was given a testimony, or I should say if an atheist would give me a testimony of his conversion to Christ and say, well, I thought there was no God. Well, yeah, he thought that, but he’s not saying that’s true now. So you need to take Ecclesiastes for what it is. It’s a testimony of a man who spent much of his life away from God, telling what it’s like, searching for meaning and truth away from God and saying, hey, everything I tried, It’s empty. It’s emptiness. So concluding at the end, you need to fear God and keep his commandments because he’s going to bring every work into judgment, whether it’s good or bad, he said. So obviously he’s saying there is a life after this. There is a judgment. There’s going to be some kind of retribution after death. But he’s not standing by the philosophical notions that he threw out there when he’s talking about what he used to believe when he was away from God. In fact, at least a half a dozen times in Ecclesiastes, he seems to say, there’s nothing better for man than to eat and drink and enjoy the fruit of his labor. Well, I guess if you don’t know there’s a God, there’s maybe nothing better than that. But Solomon knew better than that when he wrote the thing. It’s what he used to think. So anyway, I don’t see that Ecclesiastes poses any real challenge to the general teaching of Scripture on this subject. People who misunderstand Ecclesiastes might take it that way, and they often do. Jerry from Vancouver Island, B.C. Welcome.
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, hi, Steve. I have a question about 2 Samuel.
SPEAKER 03 :
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER 10 :
And we’re… God told David to go and count the people of Israel, and David did this, and then God killed those 70,000 people, and he said this was to punish David, and I was just wondering if you could explain that, why he would kill the 70,000 people and not punish David.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, I don’t see it saying that he did it to punish David. It says at the very beginning, chapter 24, verse 1, 2 Samuel says again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel and he moved David against them to say go number Israel and Judah so it says that this happened David was tempted by the way the parallels of this is in 1 Chronicles it says that Satan moved David to do this so interesting it says Lord did here but God allowed Satan to tempt him just like he allowed Satan to to test Job so God was behind it but Satan was the instigator but God allowed Satan to test well to tempt David to do something that David apparently was likely to do and did and that’s to number the people now why this was wrong for David we’re not told I can’t imagine why it would be wrong but it apparently was and even Joab knew it was wrong and challenged David on that and David ignored him but Yeah, I mean, of course, David’s actions did bring a judgment on Israel, and a lot of Israelites have died. I don’t know that we should assume these were innocent Israelites who died. If they were, then they died and they’re saved. I mean, all people die, even very good people die, but it’s whether you’re saved or not that matters more than whether you died or not. But it says God’s anger was aroused against Israel. That’s how the story begins. So Israel had apparently done something, as they so often did, to arouse God’s wrath upon them. They were probably not innocent, therefore. And this thing that David did became the occasion of God’s judging them. But he judged them because he was already angry at them for something they had done. So I think we have to – there’s many things unanswered in this story. Like, again, why was it wrong? What’s wrong with numbering the people? I don’t know. It’s not evident. I mean, God told Moses to number the people twice at the beginning of the 40 years of wandering and at the end, too. So I don’t know why it’s wrong for David to. But some people say, well, David’s motives may have been pride or whatever. And maybe so. We’re just not told. But it’s made evident that it was the wrong thing to do, and David was allowed to be directed in this direction at God’s permission and by the devil’s instigation. And this was an offense that brought judgment on the nation that God had already been angry with for something else they did, unnamed.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay, well, that helps a lot, for sure. How do you spell Chroniculus so I can send you a tithe?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, Temecula is spelled T as in Tom, E-M-E-C-U-L-A. Pretty much how it sounds.
SPEAKER 10 :
T-U-L-A? Okay. Uh-huh. Okay, great. Yeah, I really appreciate you. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right, brother. Hey, the address is written down on our website.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, I have the address. I just don’t know how to spell Tenecula.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 10 :
I thought it started with a C or a K, Tenecula. That’s what it sounds like.
SPEAKER 09 :
No. Okay, that’s great then. Okay, thanks, Jerry. Okay.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay, thanks, Steve. Bye. All right.
SPEAKER 09 :
Bye now.
SPEAKER 10 :
Bye now.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, well, just in time, because the music means I’ve got 60 seconds to wind this down. You’ve been listening to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. This is Monday, so we’ve got a whole four more days this week to do this. We do this Monday through Friday. We’ve been doing it for 28 years as of now, daily. And we do it by buying time from lots of radio stations for lots of dollars. If you’d like to help us pay those bills so we can stay on the air, you can write to The Narrow Path, PO Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. And you can also donate, if you wish, from our website. Though I would suggest you go to our website, whether you want to donate or not. You don’t have to donate. Everything there is free. There’s a lot of resources, and they’re all free at our website, thenarrowpath.com. Let’s talk again tomorrow. Thanks for joining us. God bless you.
