Washington Watch’s Jody Heiss brings to light concerns over religious liberties with expert Eric Niffin, examining Washington State’s controversial Senate Bill 5375. Additionally, Maine Representative Laurel Libby shares her battle to protect women’s sports in light of recent political challenges, underscoring the broader implications for free speech and parental rights. Concluding with insights from David Claussen, explore the intersections of church, state, and morality.
SPEAKER 03 :
From the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Sitting in for Tony is today’s host, Jody Heiss.
SPEAKER 21 :
Well, good afternoon. Hope you have had a fantastic week. It’s already Friday. I am Jody Heiss, a senior fellow here at the Family Research Council. So glad to have you joining us today. We’ve got a lot to bring your way. Here are some of the headlines. First of all, President Trump is going to be making his way to the Middle East next week for his first major foreign trip.
SPEAKER 10 :
The President looks forward to embarking on his historic return to the Middle East, visiting Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates next week, where he will focus on strengthening ties between our nations.
SPEAKER 21 :
Well, that was White House Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt earlier today. Well, what are some of the hopes as the president makes his way through the Middle East? Well, I’ll be discussing that here in just a couple of moments with Texas Congressman Randy Weber. He and I also, by the way, will be discussing some of the changes that we’ve been seeing in some of our nation’s higher education institutions. While there have certainly been some troubling anti-Semitic protests, There has also been some encouraging responses like this one from the acting president of Columbia University.
SPEAKER 08 :
Let me be clear. Colombia unequivocally rejects anti-Semitism and all other forms of harassment and discrimination. There’s a line between legitimate protest and actions that endanger others and disrupt the fundamental work of the university. Today, that line was crossed, and I have confidence the disciplinary proceedings will reflect the severity of the action.
SPEAKER 21 :
Wow, that was Columbia University acting president Claire Shipman on Wednesday, and we’ll talk about what other responses came out this week as well. And then we have a troubling new law out of Washington state that is raising a lot of concerns in regard to religious liberties.
SPEAKER 13 :
Senate Bill 5375 requires members of the clergy to report child abuse and neglect, even if the information is divulged in confession or sacred confidence. This bill protects Washingtonians from abuse and harm.
SPEAKER 21 :
Wow. That was Washington State Governor Robert Ferguson at last Friday’s signing of that bill, SB 5375. The legislation is so concerning that now the U.S. Department of Justice is looking to investigate it. So we’ll be discussing a lot on that when I’m joined with Eric Niffin. He is with the Ethics and Public Policy Center, an extremely important religious liberty issue. And then meanwhile, in another corner of our country, we have a lawmaker in Maine who continues to fight for the right to vote and speak in behalf of her constituents. All this comes after Democrats there censored her simply for speaking the truth about a gender-confused boy who was competing against girls. Well, now, now she is being supported and backed up by attorneys generals from 15 different states as she’s taking her case to the Supreme Court. And that state representative from Maine, Laurel Libby, will be joining me a little bit later in the program today. for an update. And then we’ll close out the program today with David Claussen for our weekly Biblical Worldview segment. We’ve got a lot to discuss in the headlines this week, including the battle to defund abortion giants like Planned Parenthood through budget reconciliation. And just speaking of that, by the way, I want to encourage each of you to send a message to your members of Congress. If you’ve not already done this, you can do it quite easily. Just simply text the word Congress to 67742. Text Congress to 67742, and we’ll provide you a way that you can send a message to your entire congressional delegation, and you can urge them to end taxpayer funding of abortion providers and those who provide gender transition procedures while Congress at the same time is hammering out bills to fund the federal government. So now is the time to speak, and you can speak to your representatives again. Text Congress. to 677-42. All right, now let’s jump into our first topic for the week. As I mentioned already, we’ve got universities from New York to Washington and other places who have experienced another horrible week as it relates to anti-semitic behavior where students and citizens have damaged and or forcefully occupied school property and those demonstrations by the way are shutting many of them have been shut down and many of the perpetrators have been arrested but all of this is a stark contrast what we saw under the biden administration So what exactly has led to the change in the approach, and does this have any chance, really, to squash anti-Semitism? Well, here to discuss this and more is Congressman Randy Weber. He sits on a couple of different House committees, but he’s also the co-chair of the bipartisan task force for combating anti-Semitism. And he represents the 14th Congressional District of Texas. Congressman Weber, always great to see you, my friend. Welcome back to Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 18 :
Thank you, Jody. Thank you for what y’all do. We appreciate it.
SPEAKER 21 :
Well, thank you. Listen, I want to get into this anti-Semitism stuff real quickly before I get into that. President Trump is about to make his first trip to the Middle East. He’ll be in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirates. What do you anticipate the president is going to be focusing on while he is in the Middle East?
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, of course, supporting Israel is our best ally, obviously. You know, he was the one who moved the embassy to Jerusalem, the rightful capital of Israel. And so I’m assuming he’s going to go down that path again, support Israel. And I hope he gets to meet with Bibi, Benjamin Netanyahu. And reassure him that we’re going to make every effort we can and certainly make sure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon. And, of course, he’ll probably talk about the Abraham Accords. And that’s probably going to be how many days he’s going to be there. I guess he lost my phone number. He didn’t call me and ask me for topics.
SPEAKER 21 :
Well, I’m sure had he not lost his number, he would have called you. No question about it.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, but he’s going to be there with our good friend Israel for their back, you bet.
SPEAKER 21 :
Absolutely. All right, well, let’s come back, if we can, to discuss all the activity taking place on campuses across the country. We had Columbia University, about 80 different individuals protesting there. The police were called. They shut it down pretty quickly. And, of course, that, in fact, was praised by the Trump administration as an encouraging development. Yeah. You would think that this would be normal. Why is it now that when we have these individuals, these perpetrators arrested, that that is looked upon as encouraging?
SPEAKER 18 :
You know, the world has gone crazy, absolutely crazy. You and I have been around a long time, and we’ve never seen anything like this. And just saying, you know that President Trump, by the way, sought to eliminate the tax status of one of the – I read a quick one on that university. Was it yesterday, the day before yesterday? Was it Harvard? I forget which one it was. And we’re seeing these people where, I mean, it is so bad, Jody. You know this, in the last time the Bible says men were called good, evil, and evil, good. You’re seeing all this transgender stuff. And I know this isn’t necessarily about the colleges per se, but I’m glad Columbia is waking up at least. But did you see, I think it was this morning or yesterday evening, Pete Hagseth is saying they’re getting transgendered out of the military. Did you see that?
SPEAKER 21 :
That’s fantastic.
SPEAKER 18 :
Absolutely it is. Absolutely it is. So we’re watching this with a great degree of interest. It’s for Christians. We have been absolutely bombarded with, we’re uncaring, we’re so intolerant. Well, it turns out the only intolerant people, or mainly the intolerant people, are these protesters, these people who hate Israel, these people who hate God’s law. They’re the ones who are intolerant.
SPEAKER 21 :
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, we’ve got this at Columbia University. It’s happening at the University of Washington. Brooklyn College had some incidents this week. But all of this just it seems like there is a different attitude now. The reactions are so different now from the way colleges treated these protests under the Biden administration. Why is that? What’s the big difference, you think?
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, did I mention that Trump is threatening to take away their tax-exempt status?
SPEAKER 21 :
You did mention that with Harvard.
SPEAKER 18 :
You know, follow the bouncing dollar, you know. And I think you’ll get an answer to that because there’s a new sheriff in town. He’s not going to tolerate this kind of stuff. You know, these kids, a lot of them, they want to go to college to learn, these Jewish kids particularly. And the fact that they’re being threatened, they don’t feel safe. They can’t get into their own classroom, their own dormitories, their own institutional buildings, whatever that might look like. That’s unacceptable. It’s unconscionable. It’s unconstitutional, for that matter. And so I’m glad that Trump’s finally doing something about it and that these universities are waking up to the fact that there’s a new sheriff in town.
SPEAKER 21 :
Absolutely. Well, if I can switch gears with you, Congressman Weber, to the topic of immigration. I know this is another one that you are heavily involved with and have been for a long, long time. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem told senators on Thursday, yesterday, that as many as 600,000 migrants who were on their way to the United States have now turned around when they realized that President Trump had closed the border. Your reaction to that?
SPEAKER 18 :
Oh, it’s unbelievably great. You know, like I said, they know that Trump means business. I don’t know if you saw Tom Holman’s report. The first, was it three months of this year? Nine people were apprehended at the border compared to under O’Biden. You heard me say I call him O’Biden because I think it’s Obama’s third term. His first three months, was it the last year he was in office? I forget which year it was. There was like, you know, 100,000, that was an unbelievable number. Or maybe it was a little less than that. I forget the exact number. But it was multitudes larger than nine people at the border. People down south, people in other countries are learning that Trump is not going to put up with this stuff. And it’s showing up in the statistics.
SPEAKER 21 :
Well, and now I understand as of earlier this week, the administration, DHS, at least started offering $1,000 stipend for illegal aliens to self-deport if they do so through the CBP app. You have an opinion on that?
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, it’s a plane ticket and $1,000. You know, I’m a Texan. I guess I’m old school. I think that they ought to really be punished in some fashion. You know, maybe they either get, I’ll say this tongue-in-cheek, you know, they get a plane ride, they can either have, and we fly over their country, open the door, they can either have $1,000 or a parachute. So they can, you know.
SPEAKER 21 :
It all depends on location, right?
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, I’m not going to say that. I say that in front of the camera. But no, I mean, it’s cheaper for them to do that. Obviously, you know, the administration, Trump’s administration has counted those dollars than it is for us to have to pay for airlines to get them down there and do all the paperwork stuff. If they’ll do it voluntarily, then I’m sure they’ve counted the numbers. It’s going to be a little cheaper.
SPEAKER 21 :
We’ve only got a couple of seconds left. Real quickly, are we going to get the reconciliation bill across the finish line?
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, it’s going to be tough. We’re working through this. As you know, Energy and Commerce has the largest amount, $880 billion. Democrats are trying to say we’re going to kill Social Security, we’re going to kill Medicaid, Medicare. We’re not doing that. We want these able-bodied young men who don’t belong on Medicaid to get off of it. We want people who have lined up, signed up for two or three times worth of Medicaid because they do it in different states. They’ve got to get off the waste, fraud and abuse has to be ferreted out and done away with.
SPEAKER 21 :
Congressman Randy Weber of Texas. Always great to see you. Thanks. Have a great weekend. Coming up, Washington state, a new law. They’re requiring Catholic clergy to violate privacy in confession. We’ll get into it right after the break. Stay tuned.
SPEAKER 14 :
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It’s very important for us to have organizations such as FRC. First of all, I think it keeps us grounded, in addition to which the issues that you champion are issues that we should all be championing.
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SPEAKER 21 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Great to have you joining us today. I’m your Friday host, Jody Heiss, and an honor to have you on board with us as well. All right, a bill that has now been signed into law. In fact, it was signed into law last Friday by the state of Washington’s governor, Bob Ferguson. Well, that bill now is raising all kinds of religious liberty concerns to the extent that the U.S. Department of Justice has now opened an investigation into it. The legislation in question is Senate Bill 5375. It mandates clergy to report instances of child abuse and neglect with no exemptions of privileged communication between priest and parishioner. And in response to that, the Archdiocese of Seattle has said that it would excommunicate excommunicate clergy who follow this law and violate the seal of confession which they say must remain quote sacred secure confidential and protected by the law of the church well How might all of this play out? That is the big question, and what could be the potential religious liberty implications of all of it? And here to discuss this is Eric Niffin. He’s a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center who’s been sounding the alarm on this issue for really about the last two or three years. He’s also represented plaintiffs in three different matters against the state of Washington. Eric, welcome to Washington Watch. have you.
SPEAKER 16 :
Thanks, good to be with you.
SPEAKER 21 :
Okay, let’s jump into this bill, SB 5375. Tell us more about this law. What does it specifically mandate?
SPEAKER 16 :
Sure. I guess to begin, all 50 states have mandatory reporter laws saying that certain people, whether it’s everyone or certain professions, have to report suspected child abuse or neglect to public authorities. All 50 states also have a recognition of the clergy-penitent relationship with respect to the confidentiality of certain religious communications. So the question is, what happens when these come into conflict? So Washington, in passing this bill— recognizes that there are privileged communications under the law in a lot of different professions. The clergy penitent communication exists traditionally alongside the attorney-client privilege, the physician-patient privilege, the spousal privilege, and other privileges. And what’s really remarkable about this bill is Washington State has said, we will respect every other privilege except for the clergy privilege. And that’s what makes this law really unique.
SPEAKER 21 :
Yes, so can they do that? I mean, this is singling out one specific group while allowing exemptions for others. What is the reasoning behind that?
SPEAKER 16 :
There’s no reasoning. And that’s one of the things that makes this really remarkable. I worked together with others with the sponsoring senator last year in order to create a narrow religious exemption, which the senator, she seemed to be OK with last year. And this year she came out and said that she was abandoning that for no other reason that she’s tired of compromising. And that’s not a good reason enough.
SPEAKER 21 :
So what is your take on the other side of this coin on their response from the Archdiocese of Seattle? It’s a pretty strong statement that they’ve made.
SPEAKER 16 :
It is really strong. I think it’s important to note that this is not the Archbishop of Seattle’s rule, that this is part of the canon law of the Catholic Church. Good point. The canon law actually says that violating the sacrament of the confidentiality of the confessional is so important, it ranks right alongside physically assaulting a pope. This is just an absolute no-no, and a priest automatically excommunicates himself if he does so.
SPEAKER 21 :
So, all right, break this down. Your interpretation of this law as it relates to religious liberties. Okay, what is the potential violation in terms of divisions between church and state that you see as being at stake here?
SPEAKER 16 :
Sure. Well, fortunately, both the federal constitution and the Washington state constitution have strong protections for religious liberty. And I think to look at this and, you know, religious liberty is not absolute, but the state is put to a high burden when it invades religious liberty. And so here you look at one thing. You can say that the state is treating other secular privileges with more respect than the religious privilege. So that’s one really important thing to note. Another is that the vast majority of other states have found that they do not need to invade the clergy penitent relationship in order to protect children. And those, I think, are going to be the two big problems that Washington state runs up with as it seeks to defend this law.
SPEAKER 21 :
And you may not have an answer to this question. I think those are two excellent points you bring up. But does this bill adequately even define child abuse? I mean, these days I’m getting to these days wrong pronoun is looked upon as child abuse. I mean, does this clarify exactly what abuse is?
SPEAKER 16 :
It does not. And that’s a really good point, is that these laws are meant and, you know, states across the country say this, that they want mandatory reporters to err on the side of reporting. And so if something might be abused, if it’s something might be neglect, they want mandatory reporters to tell the government and let the government sort it out. And so what counts as neglect? What counts as abuse? Those are really unanswered, undefined questions. And that’s what makes the cloud over religious liberty all the more important here.
SPEAKER 21 :
Wow. Okay, so now we have the U.S. Department of Justice. They’ve launched a civil rights investigation into all of this. What are you hoping that the DOJ might find in its investigation? If you could just kind of have a bird’s eye look at this, what do you hope is the outcome? What do they find?
SPEAKER 16 :
I think they will find, as I think they will confirm what they already said in their statement, that this is blatant discrimination against religion. It would be one thing if religious clergy were asking for something that nobody else got. But as the Washington law itself acknowledges, there are privileged communications. And it is unfair. It is unconstitutional for Washington state to treat secular privileges better than religious privileges. That is what DOJ is going to focus on. And I think that they will agree with me that this law is unconstitutional.
SPEAKER 21 :
And it’s very frightening, you know, when you see things like this happen, when they get a foot in the door, it seems to never close again, the door. It always, in this case, could lead to greater violations of religious freedom. And, you know, I like that. We used to say in Congress all the time, you give some of these people an inch and they become a ruler. And that very well could be the case here. Thank you so much, Eric Niffin, fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. We deeply appreciate your frontline involvement in this issue. And thank you for coming on Washington Watch to break it all down for us.
SPEAKER 16 :
Thank you for having me. Good to be with you.
SPEAKER 21 :
All right, coming up, I’ll speak with a state of Maine representative, Laurel Libby, to discuss what’s happening in her case to protect girls’ sports. You don’t want to miss this. We’ll be back in just a moment.
SPEAKER 15 :
At Family Research Council, we believe religious freedom is a fundamental human right that all governments must protect. That’s why FRC President Tony Perkins went to Capitol Hill to testify on behalf of persecuted Christians in Nigeria. Islamist terror groups target Christians and other religious minorities in Nigeria with brutal violence. Representative Chris Smith, who chaired the hearing, said 55,000 people have been killed and 21,000 abducted in the last five years alone. The congressman also stressed that 89% of Christians in the world who are martyred are from Nigeria.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yet the government of Nigeria has failed to make progress against religiously motivated persecution of Christians despite religious freedom being enshrined as an essential human right in their constitution.
SPEAKER 15 :
Tony Perkins called for the United States to send an unmistakable message.
SPEAKER 20 :
This is systematic religious violence. Nigeria must be redesignated a country of particular concern. The Biden administration’s removal of this designation was a reckless mistake that emboldened the very terrorists who are slaughtering Christians.
SPEAKER 15 :
Redesignating Nigeria will enable the U.S. government to pressure Nigerian leaders to protect vulnerable Christians.
SPEAKER 20 :
These are not just numbers. These are fathers, their mothers, their children, their families.
SPEAKER 15 :
Bishop Wilfred Onagabe risked his life to speak out, sharing firsthand accounts of the danger faced in his church district in central Nigeria.
SPEAKER 01 :
We live in fear because at any point it can be our turn to be killed, but to remain silent is to die twice. So, I have chosen to speak.
SPEAKER 15 :
FRC is calling on President Trump to act now to promote religious freedom around the globe and speak up on behalf of Christians in Nigeria.
SPEAKER 21 :
Thank you so much for joining us today on Washington Watch. I am your Friday host, Jody Heiss. Glad to have you. All right, whether it’s intentional or not, the state of Maine has now become a battleground for protecting girls, both their sports and their spaces. Democrat leaders there, including the governor, have doubled down in allowing gender-confused males to participate in school sports that are intended for females. And as we’ve discussed on this program, one of the state representatives there who critiques the anti-female policy was literally censored by Democrats who were in power. Well, that lawmaker now has taken her case to the courts and has found many, many allies all along the way. And here now to update us on her fight is Maine Representative Laurel Libby. Representative Libby, welcome back to Washington Watch. Always great to have you.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thanks so much for having me, Jody. It’s a pleasure.
SPEAKER 21 :
Well, listen, you have been on the show a few times ever since you were censured, and you’ve given updates all along the way. So, again, there may be some who need to just be refreshed. So briefly remind our audience why you were censured and give us the latest update on your legal battle.
SPEAKER 11 :
I’d be happy to. On February 17th, I posted side-by-side photos of a young man participating in the pole vault last year in the male category and then winning the female state championship here in Maine this February. It got a lot of attention millions of folks sought across the country and my democrat leadership and the democrat majority in the house censured me the following week and that means that i can no longer vote or speak on behalf of my constituents so i have a district of 9 000 constituents who have been disenfranchised because i’ve been unable to speak or vote on their behalf for the last two months because I will not apologize for speaking up for Maine girls’ rights. At this point, we are waiting on the Supreme Court for an emergency application that we filed to ask for my vote to be restored in the House. And we also have an appeal pending before the First Circuit Court of Appeals to get my full rights back, the ability to fully represent my constituents using my voice and my vote. And so both of those are pending and we are looking forward to having our full day in court and having my First Amendment rights restored and that my constituents can be fully represented once more.
SPEAKER 21 :
Representative Libby, every time I hear you describe what happened, I shudder in disbelief. I just can’t believe that this is happening here in the United States. But let’s go down a little further. Okay, so your response is now going, hopefully, before the Supreme Court. But while all that’s happening, the Democrats are targeting your lawsuit, and they are defending the censure, saying that it was over your conduct, and not your views. What’s your response to that defense?
SPEAKER 11 :
It’s a red herring. It’s really nonsense. They complained that the Post had a photo of a minor, which it did. And that individual chose to participate in a public event. Think about how public a state championship is. And all of the photos that are taken and shared by the press, by social media, the photos that I shared were public photos. And the real problem the Democrats have is that this highlighted an ongoing issue in Maine, the fact that Maine women and girls are being discriminated against, and they didn’t like that coming to light. This was a censure done in political retaliation, and it has huge ramifications, not just in Maine, but across the country. If you think about a majority party being allowed to silence a member of the minority with a simple majority vote, that would be a very dangerous precedent to set, and that’s why we have to fight this.
SPEAKER 21 :
And we all say thank you a thousand times over for fighting this. And joining alongside the fight, coming right alongside you, I mean, we now have 15 state attorneys generals who have signed an amicus brief to the Supreme Court asking them to grant your application. What does this level of support signal to you about your case?
SPEAKER 11 :
First of all, I’m so thankful for the support shown by the filing of this amicus brief, but I think it highlights the very high stakes here and how critical it is that we win at the end of the day and ensure that not just my First Amendment rights, it’s a much bigger picture than that, but that the rights of every individual to speak freely, whether it’s speech that we agree with or not, and not to be silenced because of it, I think those 15 attorneys general understand very clearly the danger if this is allowed to stand.
SPEAKER 21 :
Well, and it’s not only the attorneys general. There are now some local school districts in your state that are taking matters into their own hands. So it looks like this is a movement that is gaining more and more momentum. About a minute left. How do you respond to that?
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s accurate. We’ve seen two school districts so far vote to uphold Title IX and ensure that they are not discriminating against our young women here participating in sports. And they will be complying with Title IX, which all of our school districts should be. As folks know, Governor Mills here in Maine has gone way out on a limb and is prioritizing allowing biological males to participate in girls’ sports. So I’m glad to see individual school districts standing up and saying that they will protect our young women.
SPEAKER 21 :
Well, we’re thrilled to see that as well. And it seems as though your willingness to step in the gap, to stand strong, to push back, to fight back, you know, courage always attracts additional courage. And we’re seeing more and more people support you and support this whole movement. And again, thank you, Representative Libby, and thank you for again joining us here on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 11 :
My pleasure. Thank you.
SPEAKER 21 :
All right, friends, we’ve got a lot more yet to bring your way here on Washington Watch. Coming up next, I’ll be joined with David Claussen, who’s FRC’s director of the Center for Biblical Worldview. And we have a lot to talk about. We want to bring it all to you from a biblical perspective. So stay tuned. We’ll bring that your way right after the break.
SPEAKER 14 :
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How should Christians think about the thorny issues shaping our culture? How should Christians address deceitful ideas like transgenderism, critical theory, or assisted suicide? How can Christians navigate raising children in a broken culture, the war on gender roles, or rebuilding our once great nation? Outstanding is a podcast from The Washington Stand dedicated to these critical conversations. Outstanding seeks to tear down what our corrupt culture lifts up with an aim to take every thought and every idea captive to the obedience of Christ. Whether policies or partisan politics, whether conflict in America or conflict abroad, join us and our guests as we examine the headlines through the lens of Scripture and explore how Christians can faithfully exalt Christ in all of life. Follow Outstanding on your favorite podcast app and look for new episodes each week.
SPEAKER 21 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. I am your Friday host, Jody Heiss. So honored to have you on board with us as well. All right, before we jump into the last segment, I want to just one more time encourage you to send a message to your members of Congress and urge them to end taxpayer funding of abortion providers and so-called gender transition procedures. As congressional Republicans are hammering out bills to fund the government, now is the time to defund some of these abortion providers. And you can have your voice heard by simply texting the word Congress. Text the word Congress to 67742, and we’ll right away, we’ll send you a way that you can message your congressional delegation and be heard. Again, that is text the word Congress to 67742. All right. As we enter into this last segment, absolutely, there has been no shortage of news this week. I mean, we have the election of the very first American pope. We’ve got this ongoing continuing battle in Congress over President Trump’s spending bill, as I just referenced. There’s a lot happening. And as we conclude the program for this week, We always like to look back at some of the highlights, some of the biggest headlines of the week, and try to consider them from a biblical worldview perspective. And joining me to do that is FRC’s David Claussen. He’s the director of our Center for Biblical Worldview, and he’s also the author of the recently released book, Life After Roe. Equipping Christians in the Fight for Life Today. A great, great book. David, thank you for joining us as always. Good to have you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Happy Friday. Great to be with you, Jody.
SPEAKER 21 :
All right. Let’s see. Before we get going, David, I know that you’re not in D.C. today. So why don’t we just start there? Where are you and what’s happening at the Biblical Worldview Center?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, Jody, it’s actually been a really busy week for the Center for Biblical Worldview. I actually started the week in Idaho. There was a wonderful event hosted by the Idaho Family Policy Center, and I had an opportunity to speak to over 100 just real American patriots who love their church, who love this country, and encourage them with some of the work that we’re doing at FRC. And I’m actually right now in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. There is a homeschooling conference, Teach Them Diligently, one of the nation’s largest homeschool conferences. And FRC is a part of that. We have a booth and we’re specifically letting folks know of an upcoming resource. Jodi, you mentioned my life book, which just came out. We have another resource coming out called Worldview Basics. In the next coming months, it’s a curriculum for 10 to 12 year olds that looks at apologetics and ethics and biblical theology. We know that one’s worldview, George Barna tells us, is formed by the age of 13. And so FRC is trying to get this resource into the hands of parents to specifically target 10 to 12-year-olds. So in those crucial years when one’s worldview is forming. So that’s where we are right now, Jody, Pigeon Forge.
SPEAKER 21 :
Pigeon Forge, what a beautiful, beautiful place. I know you’re going to enjoy that. Real quickly, where can people go to find those resources?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, you can find the work that we’re doing at frc.org slash worldview.
SPEAKER 21 :
Fantastic. All right, David, let’s jump into some of the news. We’ve got a lot to cover this week, probably without question, the election of a new pope, an American pope, the first ever, Pope Leo, formerly Cardinal Robert Prevost. Give us some of your thoughts here.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, you know, I’m an evangelical Protestant, Jody. And so, of course, as someone who is a Protestant, I would have differences on theology with my Catholic friends. You know, Protestants, the reason we kind of had a whole reformation was actually rejecting the office of the Pope is one of a couple of those reasons. But this is an important election, Jody. And I would encourage listeners and viewers of this program to One of my friends and a friend of this program, Andrew Walker, wrote a piece in World Opinions where he talked about why, even if you’re not Catholic, this is a really, really important moment. And it’s one that evangelicals should also be paying attention to. And the point that Dr. Walker made is that, again, for those of us who are Protestants, we need to realize we don’t live in cultural isolation. And he makes the point that the moral witness of the Roman Catholic Church matters a great deal. There’s over a billion Catholics worldwide. And under the most recent pontificate of Pope Francis, I think we could charitably say that Pope Francis, there was kind of a lot of suggesting, suggestion, suggestion and signals kind of in a liberal direction. Think of the famous comment, you know, who am I to judge when he was asked about the question of same sex marriage? And I think what Dr. Walker, the point that he made is, you know, institutions shape culture. And we’re at a time right now, Jody, where moral conviction, moral clarity, moral courage is needed. And we need to hope that this Pope, Pope Leo XIV now, will just be really clear on what the Catholic Church teaches on some of these really crucial issues that we’re dealing with. You know, as I’m a Southern Baptist, Protestant evangelical, you know, each day I’m trying to fight for unborn children and religious liberty and the nuclear family. And these are issues that the Catholic church has clear moral teaching. And my hope is that on these issues, the new Pope will speak very clearly because again, we’re at a time where the very notion of objective truth is under attack. And so again, even as an evangelical Protestant, I want the head of the Catholic church to be a voice of clarity and on these issues that scripture and historic Catholic social teaching is really clear on.
SPEAKER 21 :
A good point, and I think that is the issue that is raising a lot of concern for a lot of people. I know just what I have read and looked at this week, there seems to be a lot of people suggesting that Pope Leo XIV is going to be very similar to Pope Francis on a lot of these issues, and that’s raising a lot of concerns. And all of this, as you mentioned, David, all of this goes beyond the Vatican, right? Right. I mean, for Christians, when it comes to our ultimate authority, we have the Word of God. The Word of God is spoken authoritatively on so many issues. I mean, obviously the gospel, but so many issues even beyond that, issues that go directly and speak into our culture. So can you unpack for us why this idea of truth exists? and biblical interpretation, which some are questioning that this pope may waffle on. We don’t know yet, but can you unpack for us why this idea of truth and biblical interpretation is so important?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, the question of hermeneutics, how we read the Bible, Jody, this is, I can’t think of anything actually more fundamental. Because the question that you just asked, you know, basically interpretation, how do we know the nature of truth? This gets to the basic question, has God spoken? And if so, what has he said? And 2 Timothy 3.16 is a really important scripture for the doctrine of scripture, which simply says, you know, all scripture is breathed out by God. The whole Bible has been breathed out by God for teaching, for rebuke, for proof that the man of God may be equipped for every good thing. And so as Christians, our authority is the word of God, period, period. And if we’re looking for God’s opinion or God’s perspective on an issue, the one place that we have that is authoritative is his word. If you want to know who God is, you go to his word. If you want to know who we are as people, go to his word. If you want to know how sinful people can be reconciled to holy God, you go to the word to find out exactly what that is, the gospel, the good news that we can receive. find forgiveness of our sins and reconciliation to God. And Jody, when it comes to specific moral issues, like the life issue or the nuclear family or sexuality, You know, these are not issues that Christians can agree to disagree on. And the reason is, is because God has spoken. He has revealed how he has created the universe. There is a moral order that he has established. Again, on some of the issues that we talk about every week on abortion, you know, we don’t have to guess God’s opinion. We have Psalm 139, verses 13 through 16. We have Luke 1, 39 through 45. On the question of homosexuality, we have Romans 1. We have 1 Corinthians 6, 9. We have 1 Timothy 1, 10. And so when it comes to objective truth, right and wrong, how do we know? Well, at the end of the day, it’s our doctrine of Scripture. And we believe the Bible is inerrant. We believe it’s authoritative. We believe it’s without error that you can go to the Word and find God’s perspective. And that is a doctrine, Jody, this doctrine of Scripture, the authority of the Bible, the one that is constantly under attack. In every age, the church has to defend the Scripture. And in our age, that is questioning the very notion of truth and whether truth is objective. I can’t think of a more important issue. And thankfully, we have a clear doctrine on this.
SPEAKER 21 :
And that precisely is why we need the Pope to stand firm on biblical principles as well. All right, David, if I can, I need to switch gears. There’s so much to talk about. All right, Congress right now, and this is a major shift. I mean, I wish we could keep going to what we’re just talking about, but I want to hit on some other big issues in the news this week. Congress is continuing to make progress on this budget reconciliation bill. It’s the bill that President Trump has called, and what he wants is that one big, beautiful bill. As we’ve all heard, of course, we have talked about this at length, but reconciliation is probably the best opportunity Congress has to defund abortion giants like Planned Parenthood. However, this week we are watching some moderate Republicans have suggested, at least, that defunding Planned Parenthood should not be included in this reconciliation bill. And a few pro-life Republicans who have other problems with how the overall bill is shaping up are now saying that they won’t fight for this thing in the reconciliation. Long way to say it, David, for Christians. Why is this such an important movement? Why is now the time to deal with such a big issue as this?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, Jody, there’s a spiritual answer to this and there’s a political answer to it. The kind of the spiritual theological reason why this is so important is that this is the issue of life. There is nothing more basic than the right to life. And again, our whole book on this issue, Life After Roe, this is important. If you don’t get the issue of life right, it’s hard to get anything else right. So this is so important, biblically, theologically, to understand whenever you have an opportunity to protect life, you take it. Politically, this is important, Jody, and you know this better than anyone as a former member of Congress. This is really the first time since 2017 that we’ve had a legitimate opportunity to defund Planned Parenthood. And why is this important? Let me just give two numbers. Planned Parenthood right now has assets numbering over $2.5 billion. This idea that they’re hurting for funds is crazy. There was one study that, and Mary Miller put this in a letter the other day, from 2019 to 2022, Planned Parenthood received over $1.8 billion through HHS grants, Medicaid, Medicare. Just in the last fiscal year, Jody, they received $700 million in So, again, this idea that they need taxpayer funding is crazy. By the way, this is the number one provider of abortion in our country. And a huge thing that they’re doing now is that Planned Parenthood provides these hormone treatments for confused children who think they can transition their gender. And so pretty much everything that we stand against as social conservatives, Planned Parenthood is for. And so again, this is an opportunity. Republicans have majorities in the Senate and the House, a president, a Republican president behind the resolute desk. And with reconciliation, you don’t need Democrat votes. And so again, if we don’t do it this time, Jody, It might not happen again for several election cycles. So I think that’s why at FRC, we’re encouraging everyone, go to frcaction.org slash defund and make your voice heard. This is such an important opportunity.
SPEAKER 21 :
It is. And this is, again, it goes back another way to get there is text the word Congress to 67742. Same thing. That allows individuals to contact their entire state delegation and urge them to stand for it. I’m disturbed by so many of my former colleagues are saying, well, yeah, we know Planned Parenthood provides abortions. They do all that we know, but they also provide other women’s health care. care besides abortions. And therefore, we better not defund them because abortion is not the only thing they do. What do you say to the person that would hold that position?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I would say that Planned Parenthood clinics are outnumbered by actual women’s health clinics. It’s over three to one. I talk about this in the final chapter of my book, actually, Jody, is that every year, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars go into these pregnancy resource centers and that go to women in need. So if you are a woman who needs healthcare services, you don’t need ever to go to Planned Parenthood. And in fact, the stories about Planned Parenthood are legion as far as they’re not clean, they’re not sanitary, there’s health violations all over the place. No woman actually ever needs to step foot in a Planned Parenthood clinic to get any sort of health care. And so this idea that we need to subsidize an organization that is all about promoting abortion and gender transition, again, there’s no reason any Christian, conservative, really any sane American should buy that argument because there is other ways and better ways to get actual real health care.
SPEAKER 21 :
Absolutely. All right. A minute left here, David. What would you say Christians need to do and how do they need to be praying for Congress as Congress is considering these important issues?
SPEAKER 05 :
I think this is going to be a matter of conviction and courage, Jody. From my understanding, it’s just a couple, maybe three or four members from kind of swing districts, from moderate districts. And we know, of course, that abortion is such a politically volatile issue. It always is. And so I know that the politics of defunding big abortion and Planned Parenthood might be challenging for some people in moderate districts. But again, I would ask the question, you know, you have a majority and conservatives and Republicans have run on defending unborn life, defunding big abortion. for every election cycle since I can remember. And if you don’t exercise the power that you have now that the American people gave you now, why should the American people ever trust you when you run again in the future? And so, again, this is an issue of this is right and wrong, Jody. This is really clear. And so let’s just be praying for our lawmakers to make the right decision. And let’s be praying for a culture of life to spring forth in this country because there’s nothing more basic, Jody. And I speak as a father now of a five-month-old. There’s nothing more basic than the right for life, and we need to be fighting for that.
SPEAKER 21 :
David Claussen, director of FRC’s Center for Biblical Worldview, well said. Thank you so much for your insights. Have a great weekend. All right, friends, that wraps up this week. I hope you have a fantastic Mother’s Day weekend. Happy Mother’s Day to each of you. We’ll see you next week here on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 03 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
