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Welcome to the Corner cafe about.
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The things.
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And welcome to the corner cafe. I’m your host, Rachel Maines, and today I have Brett Zachman with me in studio, and he’s with the Beeman organization, the Masculine Empowerment network, and they have a summit coming up on Saturday, August 23rd.
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From 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.
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And welcome Brett Zachman in studio and you like to be known as.
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Zach.
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That’s true. Thank you, Rachel. Thanks for having me.
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It’s.
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Great to have you. I met you through Kirk and Samuels. Great guy. He’s one of the speakers at your upcoming event, which is so exciting. I guess I’m not invited, though, because it’s called be mint.
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Now, now, before, before we get half the population hating on us, I I just want to be clear about a couple of things. We love women. We think women are fabulous. Honestly, this little species would be extinct without you all. So yeah, but for this event.
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This is a men’s only gathering, yeah.
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We need these. I think men are struggling in our culture right now and probably since time began. You guys have some struggles that sometimes women aren’t aware of. Why did you decide to start being man? Let’s go into the history of that. And then, of course, this summit, which is the second annual summit. That’s exciting. Why did you decide to?
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Start this.
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Uh, honestly, one word pain you might have heard this cliche that kind of out of your pain comes your purpose.
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So the Reader’s Digest condensed version of this 20 years ago. I go through separation and divorce right, which is not a fun life experience that’s challenging as it is. But I did 3 of the top five most stressful things on any psychotherapist list simultaneously and didn’t know it. So right, we separated and divorced. So I changed my major.
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Relationship. I moved out of our home, so I changed my domicile and I launched my first company. So I changed my.
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Prayer now to anybody listening, man, woman, human. I don’t recommend that, nor does any professional. But it wasn’t a choice. It’s just the way life presented itself. And then I watched seven of my closest male friends, my inner share of guy buddies do it too. Not all three, but they all went through divorce within the next two years.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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So that took kind of my pain and just compounded it. And when I got through all that, I asked an operative question where do men go in our adult lives when the crap hits?
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Fan.
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Right.
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I could only come up with two answers, Rachel bars and churches.
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Really. Yeah. And. And that’s, I would say that’s correct. Where else?
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Do you go?
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And well, and let’s be clear, bars are problematic for pretty obvious reasons. Churches can be problematic now. I grew up in the church for more subtle reasons, and a lot of men don’t go anywhere. They just isolate, right? Because for them, divorce feels like failure. Weakness, you know, maybe a little bit of shame.
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Same guilt in there. And so they just kind of recede. And that is not the way to deal with any difficult life event.
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Right. Wow. So through your own experience and seeing your friends as well, what would you say would be the root of why marriages are failing?
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Honestly, I feel, you know, maybe just speak for myself first and foremost, and then kind of expand from there. And what I’ve I’ve learned from other men.
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I once told my wife while we were separated, I wish I would have let that 24 year old grow up a bit.
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Hmm.
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I sure I thought I knew exactly what I was getting into.
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But you know, quaint phrases like till death do us part. Does the 24 year old really understand what that means? For decades and a half a century to come, and even more importantly, did I even really know who I was?
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No.
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Which I didn’t, and and neither did she, and so some some of what I talk about in being men, I’ve learned to talk in metaphors and analogies. I think men. I like it this way. I like to try and take this complex world and really dumb it down. Not because I’m an non intelligent man. I just. I just need it straightforward and simple and direct.
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And so I’ve told guys, you know, look, I I did like most of us. Oh, yeah. I got divorced because my wife is bad, you know, blah, blah, blah. Crazy. And I threw that boomerang out into space because I needed to learn why she behaved the way she did. And what happened was the Boomerang came back with the cinder block attached and knocked me clean out.
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Right.
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Because obviously when I found out wait, I have people pleaser issues. Oh my gosh, I wax codependent. Ohh, I have need for approval stuff going on. Yeah, I have a semi broken relationship with my father. In fact Freud. Were he alive would tell me that I just married my dad in female.
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Nothing.
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It was an alternate universe opened up to me.
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How did you discover these revelations, if you will? Did you go to counseling or was it the?
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Lord or just?
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Oh, no, no, no. This is not what men do. I call it the machismo effect. So we’ve got a few years on us, so we’ll relate to this. I don’t know about the younger crowd, but I for men, I call it the old yeller. If you remember the dog. Right. And ladies, just to be clear, men are not dogs, although there are a few of us who are bad.
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Apples that might behave as such.
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So the story about Old Yeller is he gets injured and he wanders off into the forest and he curls up under a tree and one of two things happens. He either dies or magically he recovers and bounce back to his master and that I feel emotionally, mentally, maybe been spiritually is what a lot of men do, right. The worse it got.
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The more I receded, I isolated, and it wasn’t necessarily intentional. I think it was just kind of subconscious. I I felt weaker. I felt disempowered. I felt like I was failing.
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You know, as a father, as a husband, as the head of household, so to speak. And I didn’t really want to broadcast that to anyone at all.
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Well, I feel like in our society that’s kind of how men are trained. You know, there’s there’s no preparation, if you will. Nowadays it seems a lot of guys have good dads. I have a good dad, but unless you if you get it from your dad or the family members, if you don’t get that, then where would you get training up on how to be a good man?
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MHM, MHM.
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You know, I will interject on that. I think that’s a fantastic comment because I wander in right to the booth this morning and I’m 54.
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And and I’ve been doing this for 15 years roughly now, I don’t think I have more answers, so I want people to be clear that I don’t think I’ve arrived. I just have better questions as I’ve done this work. So. So the question we could ask about me is why would we expect that I would wander in here and be a grounded, stable, productive member of society?
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He’s a 54 year old man.
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Well, it would be the training and the coaching and the teaching right to your point. So I never saw a man 101201 or 301 course ever in school, not grade school, high school, undergrad, grad, PhD. It doesn’t exist. OK, so they’re not teaching us that in the classroom, but we kind of expect that.
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So let’s go to the church, right? That would be another institution. I grew up Lutheran, right? Ohh. You did great. So here’s my tongue in cheek comment about being Lutheran. Right? It’s sort of.
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So did I by the way.
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Like Catholic light.
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For all the Catholics out.
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But you know, if you’re a very literal kid, I I learned a lot of shame.
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In the church and and maybe some things that didn’t didn’t necessarily make me feel wonderful about myself, especially when it came to divorce. Because if you go biblically, you don’t really get divorced. That’s just not something you should do. So, OK, so if we didn’t learn into school, maybe we didn’t learn in a church to your point.
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Ohh, that’s the home, but for a lot of men or women or humans. Unless your dad is going to get nominated for father of the Year award.
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That might be problematic also.
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So and then we talk about, OK, well, with men, where did would they go, you know? And I love things like Brené Brown, who talks about belonging or, you know, failure to thrive, stuff like like humans and and certainly boys who become men are going to find their human needs somewhere, somehow. So why do gangs exist? Why do?
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Little tribes, you know, growing up, even even if you’re not part of something and you feel kind of like a misfit, then that’s, like, stand by me. Right, for two or three misfit kids kind of create their own little pinky swear club, right.
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Oh yeah, we have so much to talk about. This is such an interesting conversation. One of the things I talk about with my, my best friends who are Christians, the gals that we talk about often is the lack of manly men and church. And we’re not just talking about, like, physically manly men.
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OK.
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But just.
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Men who know how to be a man in our society and some of the things that I brought up within our conversations is sometimes the church environment is more feminine and it’s lacking the masculine. Where a man would desire to go because a lot of the stuff is a very feminine nature, you know, talking about feelings and so forth. Do you have anything to share?
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OK.
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Regarding that.
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Yeah, I mean and and and since you’ve gone there, you know, I I kind of steer clear of this whole separation of church and state. And I have a very secular conversation, but once somebody invites me into that realm, I have no problem going there. So I grew up in the church, right? I did all sorts of things from, like Vacation, Bible study to.
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Ah.
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You know, all the Sunday school classes to, you know, catechism and confirmation. And we had like, a a church council youth council that mimic student council. And I was a member of that. I was the Co chair of my senior year. I went to a couple of National Youth gatherings for the Lutheran Church.
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So it’s steeped in it. So let’s talk about masculine spiritually and of course, we’ll get into all, I imagine, layers of sort of masculine, feminine and behaviors.
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For those of you who are very biblical, you know I really love watching chosen that show right now. And and I think what we miss is that yes, he taught humbleness. Yes, he taught meekness. He was a lamb, but he was also a lion.
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Right.
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He literally got slain.
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Plane.
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For basically telling the institutions of that time politically, religiously, that they didn’t know what the heck they were doing, and they decided to take his life for it. So, you know, being a godly man or being a spiritual man is not for the faint of heart.
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Right.
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Right.
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I don’t think and you don’t have to like hand in your man card, right like that. That’s. And if you feel that then I would want to invite any guy to come to one of our monthly gatherings or come to the summit because I think I think maybe you’ve been.
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LED astray a little bit.
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Right.
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Yeah, yeah, it would be nice to see in church and maybe it’s not the place. Maybe what you’re doing is the Ave.
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For guys to feel and and get the sense of their manhood and in church, maybe it’s not the place, but I I do feel that it’s a bit more feminine than masculine and there’s something there that could be processed through regarding the entire church, the body of Christ, of how we can become.
00:11:57 Speaker 1
More attractive to to men and wanting men to go and to feel community when they go and like you said not to check in the man card when they go to church.
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MHM.
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Yeah. And I mean, so, so let’s talk about some things that come to mind that are kind of very stereotypically male.
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I grew up in a.
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Locker.
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Room. So I grew up an athlete. I wanted to be John Elway until I met John Elway. But.
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You know, that was my, you know, childhood dream. I thought that that is what was the pinnacle of being a man, right and.
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Which that’s a.
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Results oriented society. It’s not who you are in your person or who you are as a human or who you are as a male or a female. It’s, you know.
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What are you doing? What did you? What did you do? What have you done? What are you going?
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To do but competition, striving, setting goals and achieving them victories like we we sit down in our monthly gathering or we sit down with our Advisory Council and before we get to business, we try to practice what we preach and we go around the Horn and the simple question is.
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Not mandatory. Do you have a challenge, a victory or both to share? Now if you have a challenge, we’re here to just listen.
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Not fix not solved.
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But empathize now, if you ask for solving and fixing, then we’ll get into that too. And with a victory, we’re here to help celebrate and be your cheerleaders. Because how many guys you know, they’re going through the motions and they’re working 52 weeks a year, you know, 5-6 days a week. And where are their victories? And and?
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Even I’ve talked to a lot of men that they have victories, small, medium or large.
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But they don’t even take a breath. You know, victory happened. And Boom, we’re on to the next.
00:13:56 Speaker 1
Yeah, I did mention earlier that Kirk and Samuels is one of the the speakers and also Jason Kendrick, which is a friend as well. And you as well. What are some of the topics that each of you and all the?
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Yes.
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Speakers are going to be talking about.
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Yeah. So the whole the kind of the premise underlying be men is speaking into the gentleman, the hero and the warrior and all men.
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And I know those sound kind of quaint and young and like when we’re kids and dreaming, but but that exists, right whether you’re 2040 or 60. I think there’s a real drive in men to be anyone, if not all three of those things. And so we’re trying to tap into that and and the overarching theme this year our tagline.
00:14:39 Speaker 2
For the summit, and by the way, Men Summit is an acronym, Masculine Empowerment Network. The theme for this year is redefining masculinity, and the tagline is stronger men better.
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And so we’re very particular with these words. Masculinity does not need to be reinvented.
00:15:03 Speaker 2
Masculine behavior has existed since humans existed, and we get confused. I think a lot. We confuse gender with behavior. So when we say masculine, we’re talking about a behavior, right? And when we say male, we’re talking about a gender.
00:15:19 Speaker 2
Because all humans can behave in a masculine fashion, and all humans, whether we like it or not, can behave in a feminine fashion. So the redefining is OK what do we think it means to be a good man or a real man, or a manly man? You know, some of these slogans, labels that we slap on it.
00:15:23 Speaker 1
Right.
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MHM.
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In 2020.
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Live.
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Because I promise you, that’s very different than what that meant in 1995 or 1975 or 1945, right? Based on generations. And so all of these speakers are going to come at that, you know, the idea of redefining masculinity or male Wellness that climate.
00:16:03 Speaker 2
From a different angle. So like, I’m going to talk about the vision of being men, where it’s been where we’re now and where we’re headed. You know, Jason’s going to tap into some shadow work Jeff brings to the table a lot about communication and emotional intelligence.
00:16:21 Speaker 2
Kirk is fabulous. He’s he’s going to be our emcee, by the way. I’m still a little bit of his Thunder, and if you’ve ever interacted with Kirk and Samuels for even like 90 seconds, you would know why. He’s our emcee. We’ve got a wonderful title sponsor David Basara. David has built something. He calls Dad’s law school.
00:16:32 Speaker 1
Right.
00:16:43 Speaker 2
For guys like me and those seven others that went through that experience, he is an attorney by trade working in the state of California and Colorado and really helping guide men through that storm. From a legal standpoint, Torrance Jackson is just man. He’s like the Energizer Bunny. He’s an activist. Like, literally get.
00:17:03 Speaker 2
You know, roll up the sleeves, get the fingernails dirty inside the communities in the neighborhood.
00:17:08 Speaker 2
Ken Curry is a trained therapist and his program is called Solid Man, so he works almost, I think, solely with men. And Chris and Aski is one of my favorite humans on the planet. Chris is in the 8th degree, Grand Master black belt.
00:17:27 Speaker 2
Who’s led some 1000 students to Black Belt titles themself?
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Elves and he’s going to finish off our day and and I promise you, you’re not going to want to.
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Miss.
00:17:36 Speaker 1
That I’m sure nobody will get up on the stage and try to fight him, right?
00:17:39 Speaker 2
No, and and in fact Chris is, you know, kind of like the whole Mr. Miyagi, Chris is busy teaching people life lessons. This isn’t come to the be men, you know, men’s summit and then learn how to, like, kill your friend with your pinky. So just that that, that guys would be the other part of the sort of manosphere.
00:18:00 Speaker 2
And masculine, the false masculine that’s appearing so much right now.
00:18:05 Speaker 2
You got to be bigger, badder, better. Richer. Yeah, like being a man has nothing to do with being an A hole.
00:18:07 Speaker 1
Meaner.
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Right.
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At all.
00:18:14 Speaker 1
Absolutely. And you know, there’s this term around that. People have been tossing around toxic masculinity, but God didn’t make it toxic. Male. I would say sins toxic, of course, and feminine and masculine.
00:18:30 Speaker 1
Women and men can sin. Can you kind of talk about that? What are some of the masculine traits that you believe God gave men that are the ones that kind of need to be rebirthed, if you will, in your your conversations with men?
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MHM.
00:18:46 Speaker 2
Absolutely. So if you go to our website beeman.org, you can click on our values page and the values that we go after and I’ll just read them off here. Compassionate, courageous, courteous, honest, loyal.
00:19:06 Speaker 2
Sincere.
00:19:08 Speaker 2
Now, these aren’t some of the buzzwords that you’re going to hear in kind of our culture. You know, pop culture right now when it comes to men, but we feel that they’re the ones that are the most timeless and the most appropriate.
00:19:23 Speaker 2
You know, being a man.
00:19:25 Speaker 2
A Goodman has nothing to do with how loud you are.
00:19:31 Speaker 2
Being a man and a good man has nothing to do with the fatness of your wallet. You know, I’ve talked to men about that a lot. If your identity is wrapped up in your pocketbook, you’re in trouble. Just give it time.
00:19:44 Speaker 1
Right.
00:19:44 Speaker 2
Sooner or later something’s going to happen that won’t be in your favor financially. And if you’re down on your luck and the only way to be a man is to be up on your luck economically, do you have problems?
00:19:55 Speaker 1
Right.
00:19:55 Speaker 2
So we’re really.
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Really. You know, I grew up in locker rooms, as I said, so I kind of look at life.
00:20:02 Speaker 2
Through the paradigm of the game.
00:20:03
Mm-hmm.
00:20:04 Speaker 2
And I was losing that game the first half of my life because I was dealing with the external.
00:20:10 Speaker 2
You can’t control the external. In fact, on your best day, the only thing you can control is the internal. So if you can reverse that paradigm and focus on the inside and go inside out.
00:20:22 Speaker 2
As you get better, your world gets better, right? It’s a ripple effect.
00:20:27 Speaker 1
Right, for sure. And I know that you’re a dad. So how do you talk to your son about this stuff?
00:20:34 Speaker 2
You know, this just even came up in our monthly gathering last night as guys were sharing and and one gentleman was sharing some stories about what was going on with his son and and what can be challenging is OK, so you’re.
00:20:46 Speaker 2
Mother and now you feel like you’re Atlas, right? Because the weight of the world, like you’re responsible for this other human and whoever they are and whoever they’re not and whatever they do and whatever they don’t do is on you. No take take take the world off your shoulders. Your dad. You can have loads of impact. But ultimately, as that little human grows.
00:21:08 Speaker 2
They’re going to be responsible. That’s one of the things we talk about. We’re very clear that every boy, every man.
00:21:13 Speaker 2
And has 100% accountability and 100% responsibility and we don’t allow for the victim card to be played right? Oh, well, my dad was or wasn’t or no.
00:21:26 Speaker 1
Yeah, This is why I messed up. Because, yeah.
00:21:27 Speaker 2
Yeah. No, no, no. Nobody. Nobody in the Beaman community or we ever encouraging to go on daytime television and tell us how you’re 50 years old and your entire world is screwed up because of how your dad spoke to you when.
00:21:40 Speaker 2
You were 12.
00:21:41 Speaker 1
Right.
00:21:42 Speaker 2
Or something he did with your mother? No. So.
00:21:46
So.
00:21:47 Speaker 2
You know what I tried to do? I feel like I learned some great things from other mentors. And one of the things I heard in the last decade was that leadership is examples ship.
00:21:57 Speaker 1
I love that.
00:21:58 Speaker 2
And and I think you know I have no acronyms at the end of my last name and I don’t think I intend to, but from a lot of people who do you know when they talk about child psychology, they’re sponges.
00:22:11 Speaker 2
So they’re learning whether they realize it or you realize it or not all the time. And what are they going to sponge from? Well, they’re going to sponge from whatever is closest in their vicinity. Typically mom and dad.
00:22:23 Speaker 1
Right.
00:22:23 Speaker 2
So how you’re talking? What you’re saying, what? You’re not saying, how you’re behaving, what you’re doing, what you’re not doing at all times is going to impact your children. So if I want my sons to be grow up to be good men, then I first really need to take a hard, fine, honest look at myself.
00:22:44 Speaker 2
And say how am I being? How am I treating their mom, whether we’re married or not? How am I treating them? Because I think too many times and I felt this growing up kind of getting that one up, one down position.
00:22:56 Speaker 2
Right. Well, I’m the parent and you’re the child. Therefore, I’m the teacher and you’re the pupil. So this is where I tell you how to be. And then that classic line of, well, you know, do as I say, not as I do. And. And kids are smart. They’re sitting there at whatever age 681012 going.
00:23:02
Right.
00:23:05
Right.
00:23:16 Speaker 2
That’s just a ginormous hypocrite. What the heck?
00:23:18 Speaker 1
Right.
00:23:18 Speaker 2
You know, the long and short of that is that.
00:23:21 Speaker 2
If you want your children to be better humans, then evaluate how good of a human you are.
00:23:28 Speaker 2
And then also I do believe in that that old cliche, you know that it takes a village.
00:23:33 Speaker 2
So the gentleman last night that was sharing I shared with him, I said, you know, it’s tough on our ego, but there was a lot of things say for example, for my oldest son.
00:23:42 Speaker 2
The messenger was his uncle.
00:23:44 Speaker 2
I I wasn’t the best messenger and and that hurt initially. I was like, what the heck? I’m the dad. I’m the father. I’m the one that you know is blood, you know, blood, sweat and tears. But you know, the message came from his uncle and it was more well received, more open. It just happened to be a different perspective or a different messenger.
00:24:03 Speaker 2
And so don’t fight that. Right. Put. Put your kids around other great people. And and that’ll help them.
00:24:10 Speaker 1
Yeah, I like that. That’s very humbling, too. A humble perspective just to realize not all the weight is on your shoulders as a parent and that like you said, the whole village, everybody you put around them, your friend Sue and your family can be a great support for them as well. So.
00:24:26 Speaker 2
Absolutely, absolutely. They’re gonna gain from whatever’s in their ecosystem, right?
00:24:27 Speaker 1
I love that.
00:24:31 Speaker 1
Yeah, this Beeman Summit listeners is coming up. It’s going to be Saturday, August 23rd.
00:24:38 Speaker 1
From 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM, they have some great speakers besides the speakers. What other things are you guys going to be?
00:24:44 Speaker 1
Doing at the summit.
00:24:45 Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s gonna be enough. Marvelous day. So we’re going to kick it off in the morning with the Little Continental breakfast. So. So the intent. And I know this word gets used way too much these days. You know, networking. So let’s let’s not call it networking. Let’s call it connecting. Right. So. So Beaman is meant to be a community.
00:25:05 Speaker 2
And so for guys that you know may not know me may not know but anybody last year we had 50 guys. Our goal is to have 100 this year.
00:25:15 Speaker 2
You will be courageous.
00:25:18 Speaker 2
Courage isn’t slaying a dragon or beating up a lion. Courage is going to an event where you don’t know anybody, and being open to, well, this could be a good thing and maybe I’ll learn something, or maybe I’ll meet someone. So we’re going to start it with continental breakfast. Then we’ll have the mayor of Parker. We’ll kind of launch our day. We’re going to run into the day.
00:25:38 Speaker 2
And each gentleman is going to be up for kind of like a Ted X style talk. So we’re not going to wear you out. We’re going to have a couple of speakers in the mid morning, break couple more speakers then launch so that you can connect more.
00:25:52 Speaker 2
Walk to lunch, getting some new friends. Few more speakers. We’re going to open it up in the afternoon to a panel discussion, so we’ll have all of our speakers in the Q&A.
00:26:03 Speaker 2
And we’re also going to have sponsors. So we have small business sponsors who have services that kind of cater towards the male crowd. And so you have an opportunity to interact with some folks that that might have some things that could help you.
00:26:17 Speaker 1
Nice. Sounds like a lot of.
00:26:18 Speaker 1
Fun, yeah.
00:26:19 Speaker 1
Yeah, but ladies aren’t invited. So ladies, though you can, you can tell your your spouse or your boyfriend or your brother or your dad. This is a great event coming up once again Saturday, August 23rd, 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM and you can learn more at Bmin dot.
00:26:22 Speaker 2
Sorry about that, ladies.
00:26:37 Speaker 1
Org and you can get tickets there as well bmin.org. Well, thank you so much, Zach, for coming on and we’ll just touch base with you periodically and have you back.
00:26:48 Speaker 2
That would be great, I would love.
00:26:50 Speaker 2
Thanks for having me today, Rachel. It’s a.
00:26:52 Speaker 1
Pleasure and thank you for tuning in to the Corner cafe. Make sure and check out our website cornercaferadio.com. That’s corner caferadio.com and if you’ve thought about having your own radio program, well, we just put out a course on how to have your own unique radio program.
00:27:11 Speaker 1
Just go to influencerstv.com/radio that’s influencers tv.com/radio and make the dream of having your own radio program possible. Just go to influencerstv.com/radio.
00:27:26 Speaker 1
And I’ll see you at the corner cafe next week.
00:27:47
cafe
