Rethinking the Role of Church, the TRUE Gospel, Baptism, Solitude with God

SPEAKER 01 : 0:01

Welcome to Classic Christianity Radio with Bob George. Today we are pleased to present a special radio show featuring call-in listeners from Bob’s original people-to-people daily radio program that was on the air for over 30 years, offering real answers for real-life problems as he addresses common questions as well as the tough issues of today, directing callers to the centrality of Christ in you, your only hope of glory. We want to remind our listeners that Bob George Ministries needs your financial support to continue to have Classic Christianity Radio on the air. Please visit BobGeorge.net to find out how you can help support us financially. Let’s now join Bob as he presents practical biblical insights as he helps people experience a life of faith, hope, and love in Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER 04 : 0:49

Boca Raton, Florida, listening on WLBJ. John, you’re on the air.

SPEAKER 06 : 0:53

Hey, how you doing, Bob?

SPEAKER 04 : 0:55

I’m doing good, John.

SPEAKER 06 : 0:57

Good. God bless you.

SPEAKER 04 : 0:58

Thank you, pal.

SPEAKER 06 : 1:00

Listen, I was just calling. I wanted to ask a question on the gentleman who called in, and I’m glad that he has a relationship with Christ. No question on that. But he said he wasn’t going to church. And that leads me to believe maybe he’s isolating himself somewhat from the Christians within the Christian community. Is it not part of You know, being a good Christian, obviously going to church and reaching out with others and trying to bring other people to Christ.

SPEAKER 04 : 1:34

Well, John, there’s no place in the Bible where it tells a believer to go to church. It tells the church to go to the people, but it doesn’t tell people to go to church. It says, don’t forsake the assembling of ourselves together, such as the custom is, but rather to realize that a log on a fire by itself will suddenly smolder and go out, whereas you put numerous logs together while they will feed on one another. But you see, the problem with that, John, is we’ve developed a concept that the church is that building on the corner of Walk and Don’t Walk with the stained glass and the organ, and that’s where you go to church. We don’t realize that the early church was home studies, home Bible studies and home groups. And that is just as much of a church today as going to some large assembly. But in Jonathan’s case, he wanted to take time to get alone with God and to learn from God through his word and experience the love of Christ. Sometimes you cannot, I mean, my goodness, to do for an hour on Sunday, you’re not going to do that. And so that’s something that you have to pull away in order to grow in your knowledge of God’s love and grace. Now, when a person matures, as an example, It’s like a baby doesn’t go to the dinner table. The baby is fed where he is, and he’s fed by his mom until he gets old enough to sit at the dinner table and have fellowship with others. Outside of that, he’s just taking in some food and spitting it back at you sometimes. But you have to realize there’s a growth process that has to take place in all of us. And I’m going to tell you, in my own life, where I learned the Scriptures, because I certainly didn’t learn it in the church that I was going to. They never taught it. I learned it in Bible study and doing exactly what Jonathan did, and that is getting away by myself many times for days at a time and doing nothing but just fellowshipping with God and getting to know him. So we don’t want to sit back and criticize the way in which a person is being led to grow in Christ. Now, ultimately, when that maturity comes, why a person… Definitely, and not necessarily to wait for that. You sit apart and wait for that. But ultimately, you will get into fellowships with other believers and to grow together as you learn together. But I just want to emphasize the fact that the church in the early days was home church. And there was no big things going on there. It was just a group of people meeting in homes. studying the apostles’ teaching, fellowship, and prayer. That’s what the church was in its origin, in its original form. They met daily for fellowship, the apostles’ teaching, and for prayer. If the churches today would stop making it an activity center, and a place where you send your kids so that they’ll have friends and activities. Instead of going there for the purpose of fellowship and apostles teaching and prayer, we wouldn’t have the situations that we have going on in America today with the weak condition of the church. So I appreciate what you’re saying, but again, that depends on what church you’re going to. To say for a person just to go to church for the sake of going to church, I’d rather stay home. Now, if you’ve got a church that teaches the Word of God and truly teaches the Word of God, that’s where people are going to go and grow in their knowledge of the Word of God.

SPEAKER 06 : 5:08

Absolutely. It’s not just teaching the Word of God, though, Bob. It’s also doing the Word of God.

SPEAKER 04 : 5:12

Well, again, you don’t do the Word of God sitting in a church on Sunday, Jonathan. You do the Word of God.

SPEAKER 06 : 5:18

The church is the body of Christ. If it’s a good church, it’s the body of Christ. It’s the hands, the feet, the eyes.

SPEAKER 04 : 5:24

Do you go to a good church?

SPEAKER 06 : 5:25

Absolutely, I do. I have that Lutheran church in Boca Raton, Florida.

SPEAKER 04 : 5:28

Okay. Now, again, what good deeds are you doing that you think God is so impressed with?

SPEAKER 06 : 5:35

In other words, what I’m saying… I’m not saying he’s impressed. I’m not trying to do good works. To get to heaven at all.

SPEAKER 04 : 5:43

Well, I’m saying what is the church doing? What is the church doing? What you’re talking about, what are they doing? That is unusual from what other churches are doing.

SPEAKER 06 : 5:51

The church is not being isolated. Our church is not being isolated in the sense that I felt that other gentlemen were.

SPEAKER 04 : 5:57

Oh, I see. I got you.

SPEAKER 06 : 5:58

They’re being isolated Christians. They’re reaching out into the community, spreading the word of Christ.

SPEAKER 04 : 6:03

Well, so is he. So, see, you’re talking about.

SPEAKER 06 : 6:06

See how he’s doing that. He’s just being alone in Christ there.

SPEAKER 04 : 6:10

I see what you said.

SPEAKER 06 : 6:11

Now, wait a second, Bob. Let me say one thing, please. I see what you said about feeding a baby and this and that, but the bottom line is eventually the child learns to eat on their own. And just like a person comes to Christ, they don’t just come to Christ. People are brought to Christ generally by other people who love Christ.

SPEAKER 04 : 6:31

Let me ask you a question, John. How many people have you led to Christ personally?

SPEAKER 06 : 6:38

Personally?

SPEAKER 04 : 6:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER 06 : 6:40

Probably about 50.

SPEAKER 04 : 6:41

Okay. Now, hold on. Let’s just go through this line of thinking for just a minute because I’m not arguing with you. I’m just trying to get us on an even keel. Now, did you do that in the church service or did you do that outside of the church, outside of the building?

SPEAKER 06 : 6:58

A little bit of both.

SPEAKER 04 : 7:00

But you see, evangelism was not meant to be done in the church. That’s where discipleship is supposed to take place. Evangelism is supposed to take place out in the marketplace where you live, work, and play. So again, it’s not to bring somebody to the hired gun on Sunday and let him shoot them down. That’s the pastor shooting them down on Sunday. Our role is to get discipled so that we know how to communicate the gospel so that when we’re out in the marketplace of life, we can share Christ with somebody. And again, what I do not… approve of is the fact of being critical of somebody that says that he wanted to take time to learn about god and to experience the love of christ which obviously he is i wish that we had an entire church building full of people who were on their face before god saying lord jesus i love you what a great savior you are so don’t be critical of these things uh if if your church is doing critical you said the word critical i didn’t Well, you were calling because you were criticizing this man for… I wasn’t criticizing. Oh, what were you doing, John?

SPEAKER 06 : 8:02

I was just making a comment. We’re off on another line here, John.

SPEAKER 04 : 8:13

I think you’re wanting to be argumentative about something. You called to be critical about this guy who said that he wanted to get alone with God, and you’re saying, I don’t approve of that. He needs to be in a church. And that’s what the conversation was all about, is whether he needs to be in a church. Well, as long as he’s growing in his relationship with God, as long as he’s got a Bible and he’s growing, why, that’s all that really is important is he’s growing in Christ. If that is taking place on a Sunday morning, just how much of teaching do you get on a Sunday morning? If it’s like the Lutheran churches I’ve been in, if you get a 20-minute sermon on Sunday, you’re pretty lucky. Now, maybe yours teaches more than that, but I want to tell you the ones I’ve been in, it’s about a 20-minute sermon. And I say, is that what your life is? Is that where you grow? That isn’t where you grow. Now, if you’ve got other deals that help to teach and this type of thing, that’s fine, but that’s discipleship. But the evangelism is going to have to take place outside. So if I misinterpreted what you were saying, I apologize for that. But what you your call was, was in relationship to John of Jonathan’s call, where he said he simply wanted to get alone with God and to learn faith. about him through his word and to experience the love of Christ. And if I’m remembering correctly, what you were calling was saying he needs to be in church. I can’t think of a better teacher than the Holy Spirit. Yeah, exactly. But again, do we need to be fellowshipping with other believers? Absolutely. It’ll help you to grow. No question about that. Well, I hope we didn’t have too much misunderstanding there, John. But at any rate, that’s my take on it. Let’s go to San Diego, California, listening on KBRIGHT. Jimana, you’re on the air.

SPEAKER 05 : 9:59

Oh, hi. You said my name very well.

SPEAKER 04 : 10:03

Well, good.

SPEAKER 05 : 10:05

I talked with you last Thursday, and you stopped because you said that we didn’t have time anymore. And you said that we cannot live the way Jesus Christ did.

SPEAKER 04 : 10:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER 05 : 10:19

Now…

SPEAKER 04 : 10:20

And not unless we’re Jesus.

SPEAKER 05 : 10:21

Yes, the way Jesus Christ did. And to me, the message of the new covenant is to change the old way in which we live on the old principalities of this world. And as a matter of fact, it says in Proverbs 14, 12, that there is a way which seemed right unto a man, but the end thereof are the way of death. So the way of this world is,

SPEAKER 04 : 10:48

Janana, let me stop you for a minute.

SPEAKER 05 : 10:52

Yes, please.

SPEAKER 04 : 10:52

What I want to do on this program is to answer the questions that people have, not to give a format for some kind of discussion. So if you’ve got a question, I would love for you to pose the question for me.

SPEAKER 05 : 11:07

You said that we cannot live the way Jesus did. But that’s what he said. I am the way. If I…

SPEAKER 04 : 11:14

All right, so now hold on a minute. Don’t. Your question is, can we live like Jesus? The answer is no. How in the world do you think you can live like Jesus when Jesus said the way he lived was listening to what the Father told him to do? As a matter of fact, he said, I don’t do.

SPEAKER 05 : 11:29

Thank you for saying that because you’re helping me right now. So tell me if I’m wrong then.

SPEAKER 04 : 11:35

Yeah, you are. You are, but again, you’re calling for a question. You’re going to have to let me answer it, Janina. Okay. Jesus said, I do nothing unless the Father tells me to do it.

SPEAKER 05 : 11:48

Just be the Lord. Exactly.

SPEAKER 04 : 11:50

I say nothing unless the Father tells me to say it and how to say it. Not only what to say, how to say it. And as the Father sent me, so send I you. So what is he saying? Copy that? No, he’s saying copy my dependency. In other words, don’t try to copy my actions because God isn’t telling you to do what he told me to do. It’s copy my dependency. Jesus walked in total dependency upon his father and said, go do likewise. So we cannot live like Jesus lived. We’re to live like God is telling us to live. And that is living in dependency upon the father. And so trying to imitate Jesus is nonsense. That’s out trying to be an imitator, talk like him, act like him. We don’t know what he talked like. So the whole issue there is not to try to mimic the actions of Jesus, but to mimic the faith of Jesus. That’s why he came to walk as a man, because God doesn’t need to walk by faith, but he did. And why he did was to teach me how he wants me to walk, and how he wants me to walk is by faith in his Father. So quit trying to imitate the actions, and we imitate, hopefully, the faith. Do we do that all the time? No. If you think that you’re doing it, Read 1 Corinthians 13 on what love is, that he said is the only thing that counts, is faith expressing itself through love. And to put an I am always to the definition of love. I am always patient. I’m always kind. I’m always good. I never keep records of wrong. I’m not proud. That would be a good one to listen to. And all of those type of things and see how are you doing. And the whole issue is you’re not doing very well. And the reason for it is we’re trying to imitate instead of live in dependency upon Christ. Janann, I hope that helps. That’s what you called for was to get your question answered. And I hope that takes care of that. And I appreciate your call. You call again.

SPEAKER 01 : 13:55

We’ll be right back. Your donation, large or small, makes a lasting impact. Visit BobGeorge.net today to explore helpful resources and partner with us in spreading God’s truth. That’s BobGeorge.net. Together, let’s keep this ministry moving forward.

SPEAKER 04 : 14:32

We’re going to go to WBRI in Indianapolis, Indiana. Eric, you’re on the air.

SPEAKER 02 : 14:41

Hello, Bob.

SPEAKER 04 : 14:42

How you doing, brother?

SPEAKER 02 : 14:42

Okay. Good. I kind of wanted to throw a question out there to you. You know, I’ve talked to a lot of people, and I’ve heard a lot of people say this to me, too. It seems like after you get in your walk with God for a while, that they say, I wish it was like it used to be. You know, I wish, yeah.

SPEAKER 04 : 15:02

I can relate to that, yeah.

SPEAKER 02 : 15:05

And I kind of feel that way now myself.

SPEAKER 04 : 15:07

Yeah. You know, Eric, I went through a period like that, and I was praying, Lord, take me back to the days when I first knew you. And it was like God said to me, Bob, I really appreciate what you’re saying, but I got so much more for you than what you had when you were a brand-new Christian. What you’ve done is you’ve gotten your eyes off of me and got it on religion. You’ve got your eyes on you and what you’re doing instead of me and what I’ve accomplished for you. It’s very simple that we’ve taken our eyes off of the source, Jesus, and put it on to the body. That’s the church. The head is more important than my body. And that’s not only case physically, but it’s the case spiritually, that he is the head and he should be the focal point of the body and what we do is reverse that sometimes Eric and I know in my own life I was sold deeply involved in activity I just absolutely working myself to death for Jesus and driving down the from down down the freeway every day on the way to the busiest Christian schedule that you could ever dream or imagine I’ve always said if you could if works got you to have a not overshot the mark a But with tears streaming down my eyes, singing that song of Andre Crouch, Lord, take me back to the days when I first knew you, I totally lost the joy of my salvation. And it was in that moment, Eric, in that point of crying out to God and saying, Jesus, I’m doing everything. that I was told that if I did, I’d just be so happy I could hardly stand it. And I’m doing all those things in abundance. I’m witnessing to people. I’m going to prayer meetings. I’m praying. I’m reading the scriptures. I’m going to visitation. I’m doing all these things, and I’m miserable. And I don’t understand why. And it was like Jesus led me to a passage of Scripture that I knew and had memorized, as I’ve been able to do with a terrific amount of Scripture. But if you abide in my word, you’ll know the truth, and the truth will set you free. And my retort to that, Eric, was, I already know the word, Lord. And he said, Bob, I didn’t say the word would set you free. I said, if you abide in my word… I will set you free. The word points to Jesus, and Jesus is who sets you free. And I had become a student of the word, and in so doing, had kind of put the author on a back burner, if you know what I mean. I don’t mean he was out of my life or anything, still was loving Jesus, but it was more important to know the word than it was to know that this word is leading me to the author. And I began to realize in an all-intellectual pursuit that I’ve ever had, I never studied a book to get to know the author. And I think we carry that same mentality over to our Christian experience, and we begin to study the Bible with the same mindset that the purpose of studying is to get to know the book, where in reality the purpose of studying the Bible is to get to know the author. And it changed my whole perspective on things, Eric. And I got down to the point of saying, Lord, what I want you to do is kind of erase the blackboard. I don’t care what Campus Crusade taught me, and they’ve taught a lot of good things to me. And I don’t care what the Baptists taught me or the Bible schools that I’ve gone to or whatever it might be. I want you to teach me. I want you to erase the blackboard because what happened is I had some truth on the blackboard and I had some error on the blackboard. They were both on the same blackboard, and all Satan has to do when that’s the case is just say, Bob, don’t you remember how much fun we used to have when you were believing this error? And so I said, erase it. I want to start afresh, and I want you to teach me what you want to teach me. And, Eric, that’s where God taught me the grace of God, and he taught me the mercy of God and the kindness of God and taught me that it’s all Jesus and none of me. And because I had a lot of me in the Christian experience, I had a lot of what I was doing for God, And I had kind of forgotten what God not only did do for me, but what he was continuing to do for me. And that’s what brought me back to a place of joy. And I can say that it surpassed. where I was as a brand new Christian. When I was a brand new Christian, like a baby, I was excited because you’re a babe in Christ. But today there’s that gentle assurance, that confident assurance that Jesus is mine. As the song says, oh, for a foretaste of glory divine. And it’s just resting in that knowledge and that Sabbath rest that he has done. and completed his work in my life. And I am going to rest in that. I’m going to rest from my works just as he did from his. And to be able to walk in that newness of life, being led internally by the Spirit of God rather than being led by laws written on stone. And I think that if you just kind of refocus and to realize a dry period of time, you know, it’s like the ocean doesn’t come in all the time. There’s a period where it goes back out again. Mm-hmm. And that dry periods aren’t something to get all upset over. But what it is is to realize that there’s a reason for that. And probably what it is is I’ve just gotten my eyes off of Jesus and gotten them on two other things. And he just says, get back where you belong.

SPEAKER 02 : 20:38

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that helps.

SPEAKER 04 : 20:42

Well, that’s great, Eric. Well, we’ve got to take care of us Hoosiers, you know. Yeah. Okay. Well, I’m glad, Eric. And if you’ve got any further questions, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever picked up our book, Classic Christianity?

SPEAKER 02 : 20:56

Yes, yes, I’ve got it.

SPEAKER 04 : 20:57

And I would just kind of read through that again, because really that’s a story of going through the dry spells and turning to Christ in his fullness and watching him do his work in your life. So it may be worthwhile just taking another read on it.

SPEAKER 02 : 21:13

I sure will.

SPEAKER 04 : 21:14

All right, brother.

SPEAKER 02 : 21:15

Okay, well, thank you.

SPEAKER 04 : 21:16

Good to talk to you, Eric. God bless you, pal. You too. Okay, bye-bye now. Let’s go to Toronto, Canada, listening on Joy. Don, you’re on the air.

SPEAKER 03 : 21:27

Hi, I’d like to know about baptism and the difference between Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and Jesus’ name, permission of sins, and do you have to be baptized?

SPEAKER 04 : 21:40

Well, to answer to your last question, no, that is not a requirement for baptism. It says in the Scripture as clear as a nose on your face, this is the gospel that saves. Death, burial, and resurrection has nothing to do with baptism, tongues, church appearance, church attendance, tithing records, and all the other stuff that we have tagged on to death, burial, and resurrection. The gospel that saves you is Jesus’ death, Jesus’ burial, and Jesus’ resurrection, period. Nothing to add to that. Now, what is baptism? The baptism it talks about in the scripture is, well, I baptize you, John said, with water, but the one coming after me whose sandals I’m not worthy to untie will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. A few verses later on the day of Pentecost, that’s exactly what happened, was we received a spiritual baptism. And that is when the Spirit of God who now lives in you baptizes or places you into the body of Christ. That has nothing to do with water baptism. It’s a different type of baptism. It’s a spiritual baptism. And that’s precisely why the Apostle Paul was able to say, I’m glad I didn’t baptize anyone. I only gave us and I did baptize them. Besides that, I don’t remember if I baptize anyone for I did not come to baptize, but to preach the gospel. And again, what is the gospel? This is the gospel. It saves death, burial and resurrection. So baptism can be a picture of that marvelous event, a visual aid, but a necessity? Absolutely not. And when you try to make it a necessity, you have taken away from what the Bible says. This is the gospel that saves death, burial, and resurrection. Does that help, Don? Not really, because I know… Well, then if it doesn’t help, you’re beyond hope of understanding. If it doesn’t help, that is exactly what the Scripture says. And whatever preference that you have grown up with is a wrong preference. You can’t get it any clearer, Don. This is the gospel that’s saved. You either believe that or call God a liar. This is the gospel it saves.

SPEAKER 03 : 23:47

Acts 2.8 says no man can reach into heaven until he’s baptized.

SPEAKER 04 : 23:52

Where in the world do you hear that? Don, that is not a passage of Scripture, my friend. You have just quoted something that is not in the Scripture. And, Don, again, I’m trying to get you to think with your head. Read, this is what the Bible says. This is the gospel that saves. Now, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what that means. This is the gospel that saves. Death, burial, and resurrection. Now, if you’re arguing against that, you may as well look in the face of Jesus and spit in his face and say, you’re a liar. You also are denying the inerrancy of the word of God because this is the word of God speaking to you. And that’s where you must start. You don’t come in and try to interpret that after you’ve come up with an idea that you get saved by getting baptized or saved by speaking in tongues. or saved by tithing, or saved by church attendance, and now I’m going to go to the Bible to prove it. You don’t do that. You go to the obvious to interpret the obscure. The obvious is this. This is the gospel that saves. Quit trying to negate that. This is the gospel that saves. Death, burial, and resurrection of him. you are not getting dunked to get saved. That isn’t there. There are passages where in the New Testament they did baptize people. That’s a recording of what people did. It doesn’t mean that is biblical. It means that’s what they did. But what they did wasn’t any different than what you and I do. We go and some people take the communion and have real wine. Other people have grape juice. Other people have regular bread. Other people have different kinds of bread. It doesn’t matter. All of those are merely pictures. They’re pictures. And quit worshiping at the foot of a picture. There is nothing that you can do to add to what the Bible says clear. And my friend, you are arguing with the truth of the Bible. That’s why you hung up. That’s why you’re hacked out. You’re mad at me because I’m teaching you truth. This is the gospel that saves you. What you believe doesn’t save you. What does that mean? You’re not saved. You are not saved until you come to the totality of this truth. This is the gospel that saves you. Death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. You are not in that equation, my friend. And you are not saved when you believe that you’re saved by anything else except Christ. Death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

SPEAKER 01 : 26:49

I hope that helps. Thank you so much for tuning in to Classic Christianity with Bob George. We hope you’ve enjoyed today’s program. We truly hope that today’s message has inspired you to walk a life of faith in the Lord. Find more information online at bobgeorge.net. There you’ll also find available CDs, DVDs and Bible studies available for purchase. It’s through your help that we are able to spread the good word of Jesus Christ. Until next time, walk in faith, be good to one another and praise the Lord. Amen.

SPEAKER 06 : 27:21

Put Jesus first in your life and turn your