In this episode of Family Talk, Dr. James Dobson and his team delve into the challenging issue of teenage rebellion, exploring the personal stories of Franklin Graham, Pastor Raoul Rees, and Pastor Mike McIntosh. Through powerful interviews, these men share their own experiences with rebellion during their teenage years. Their journeys, marked by destruction and a later transformation into esteemed ministry leaders, offer cautionary tales and hope for parents and guardians struggling with similar issues in their families.
You’re listening to Family Talk, the radio broadcasting division of the James Dobson Family Institute. I am that James Dobson, and I’m so pleased that you’ve joined us today.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast ministry of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I’m Roger Marsh, and on today’s edition of Family Talk, we have a very special program for you. Last time here on Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, we shared part one of a powerful conversation featuring three men whose teenage years were marked by rebellion, anger, and pain. Now, these names are all very familiar to most of us. Franklin Graham, Pastor Raoul Rees, Pastor Mike McIntosh, each walked through very different circumstances, and yet all three of these men found themselves on a collision course with destruction before the Lord intervened and what powerful ministries each of them established in those years after the rebellious season was over. On today’s edition of Family Talk, we’re going to hear part two of Dr. Dobson’s interview with these men who went on to become respected leaders in ministry, and their stories offer both warning and hope to parents who are watching their own children struggle. Maybe this is the season that you and your spouse are going through right now with your own kids, or maybe as grandparents, you’re watching your grandchildren make questionable decisions, and you’re wondering, when on earth are they ever going to turn back around? As we’re about to hear, rebellion doesn’t always stem from parental failure. Sometimes it’s just simply the sinful nature of the human heart. Put another way, sometimes smart kids make dumb decisions. But in every case, prayer and the faithful proclamation of God’s word can make a difference. Now, Dr. Dobson has written extensively about this subject. He wrote an entire book on the topic called When God Doesn’t Make Sense, How to Deal with Difficult Seasons in Life. And we’ve recently published a new booklet called Faith Must Be Tough – daily insights to renew your trust in God’s goodness, even in today’s uncertain world. It’s a perfect resource to utilize to take advantage of these 10 daily devotional entries that all have links to additional material from us here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute that you can access online. Go to jdfi.net for more information about the brand new booklet called Faith Must Be Tough by Dr. James Dobson. You’ll find that information at jdfi.net. Well, the men that we are about to hear from today, Franklin Graham, Mike McIntosh, and Pastor Raul Ruiz, did in fact go on to have remarkable ministries. But as we think back to this conversation that was recorded in 1986, here we are 40 years later realizing that the work that God started in these men did take them through a season of rebellion, kind of a crucible, if you will, before they actually launched their ministries and what ministries they had. So, you know, teenage rebellion is one of those subjects that does hit close to home, doesn’t it, Dr. Dobson?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, it hits Christian parents especially hard, and that’s why we come back to this subject often, trying to give encouragement and advice to parents. And this program that we’re going to hear now, this is the second part of a two-part program, was recorded in 1986. And I had an idea for a invited three well-known ministers to come into the studio with me, men who are winning people to Christ, men whose lives are dedicated to ministry. But they were rebellious teens. All three of them were really tough to deal with. And they have not only come through that, but they are being used mightily by the Lord today. It was true in 1986 when I invited them here, and it’s even more true today.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, it certainly is. And now let’s get into this classic edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk.
SPEAKER 05 :
When you look at adolescents today who are going through rebellion, when you see teenagers who are angry at the world and they’re breaking all the rules and they’re getting kicked out of school and they’re on marijuana and their parents are having all this trouble with them, do you see them differently than we see them, those of us who did not come through that kind of rebellion? Can you give us some insight into what those teenagers are feeling and thinking? What’s going on in their minds? Why are they fighting the world in this way?
SPEAKER 03 :
I’ll take a shot at it. Sandy and I have five beautiful children, and two of them are teenagers, and we’ll have a third one in a couple months. We’ll enter her teen years. And I look back at my teenage years, and as we mentioned in the last program, there was a death of my oldest brother, who I thought was going to be our great white hope. He was the only one in college, and he was going to get us all into a nice house and out of poverty. I had a lot of unanswered questions. And I was struggling with, you know, becoming a man from a boy physically. I was just finding out what girls were all about. As an athlete, I was trying to keep in shape for that. And then there was the party scene, and then there’s this Christian thing. And so I was fighting battles on several fronts. And I had questions about life and questions about who am I and questions about hurt and pain. And since my mother was a single parent and working, I didn’t have anybody to answer those questions for me. So I struggled a lot. without the questions being answered. And when you couldn’t get the answers, then frustration builds up. So you go to your peer group. And in the peer group, you find those that like you and accept you and those that don’t like you and reject you. So you gravitate towards those that like and accept you. And they may not be the most desirable people for you to gravitate towards. So I think that there’s a lot going on that the parent doesn’t see that this sounds strange, that the person that loves them the most is the hardest one for them to talk to. Mm-hmm. And I think the parent needs to realize that that child is an individual. God made them an individual. They’re not responsible for everything. For everything. But we’re so domineering as parents. Like you said, we want to give them the best. We want them to have the best. And when we see them make a falter, we take the negative upon ourselves.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, in the third film of our film series, Turn Your Heart Toward Home, I deal with adolescence. And I describe the adolescent journey as being like a river, and you come to a time of turbulence. You come to the rapids there, and the water’s boiling all up, and the little boat is bouncing all over the place. And parents at a time like that are inclined to fear that the falls are right around the bend. But in most cases, that doesn’t happen. In most cases, they come through this turbulence, and lo and behold, they get into the early 20s, and the river smooths out again. And I have offered the advice in that film that what you want to do when their boat is bouncing all over the river is get them through it. That is the advice. Get them through it. And if you press too hard at that time, you’ll turn that boat over. You know, you don’t want to rock a boat when it’s already bouncing all over the river.
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, I’m here today because of prayer. And my parents prayed me through that turbulent period in my life. And maybe that is simplistic prayer, but my parents loved me enough to pray for me. And my grandfather and my grandmother. So I’m here today because of prayer and the grace of God. I don’t deserve anything but death. But yet Christ, for some reason, God has allowed me to be raised in a Christian home and exposed to the gospel in age 22. giving me that opportunity to receive him as my Lord and Savior. And I thank God for parents that prayed for me.
SPEAKER 05 :
My daughter was too when I realized that there isn’t enough knowledge in the books. There isn’t enough wisdom in what I write or anybody else to get them through those years without divine help. And that’s why I began praying for her and later Ryan because I knew I had to have help. I don’t care what your training is, what your experience is. Satan is too vicious, and you’ve got to have the Lord’s help at a time like that. Raul, you’re a pastor of a large church now, and you’ve got a lot of teenagers in that church. I visited you one night, and I couldn’t believe the number of young people you have there. So you see a lot of adolescent rebellion, don’t you?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, I was thinking about Franklin, what he had said concerning his childhood. And I have a son that has grown up in the Lord, but at the same time, between 15 and 17, he’s become rebellious in his own way. And one of the things is the anger that what he wants to identify himself individually. They don’t want any rules and regulations. And it’s come to the point that even one time, you know, where he got so angry that he kicked the wall in his room. And I was at work and my wife called me. And so what I did is I called the police because I said I will not stand for that. And so when I got home, I started sharing with him and I made him pay for the wall. And I said to him, I said, Raul, I don’t want you to go to hell. You know, deep inside of my life, I was sharing, Raul, I want you to know that Jesus Christ loves you, but it doesn’t seem to penetrate. They have to learn for themselves. And I know that a lot of times in my own nature, when I become angry towards him, that he’s rebelled more against me. And so they want to get tough, you know, and it’s hard.
SPEAKER 05 :
Franklin, did your mom or dad, and I don’t want to get too personal because they’re so visible, but did they ever say, Franklin, you know we’re in the ministry, and there’s a lot of people watching us, and you’re really undermining the whole ministry, and we’re going to have to ask you, do you ever get that approach?
SPEAKER 01 :
No, sir, never, not one time.
SPEAKER 05 :
I admire that. I admire that.
SPEAKER 01 :
I think they knew that wouldn’t have made any difference to me. What were you like in junior high school? Junior high school. I was rebellious, but again, I was at home, and I had very much respect for my mother and father. And it was right at high school I went to New York, this private school, and that’s where I learned, really, I think, a lot of disrespect. And that’s where I got an appetite for the world. And I think that’s important. You’re going to lose your children one day anyhow. They’re going to pack up and move on and leave the house. I think it’s important that we have as much contact with our children as long as we can. And I hope and pray that I’ll have my children all the way through high school. But I was 13 when I left home. To go to the boarding school? Yes, sir. But not by your own choice?
SPEAKER 05 :
No, sir, not at all. That’s a very risky move because if there ever is a time in a child’s life when he needs stability, it’s that 13, 14, early adolescent phase.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, one of the things, too, that I feel as we’re dealing with kids today, like you said, is that their main complaint to me is that my parents both work and they want me out of the way. They don’t want nothing to do with me. Do they say that to you? Oh, yeah. We have fellowship on Monday nights for kids in my area where I live in La Verne. And most of the kids that were coming over were kids that their parents, they don’t want any, they buy them off, you know, with money. Nothing to do. And they’re in drugs. They’re in sex. They’re a whole thing. And somebody starts paying attention to them. And my house is always full with kids, which they can’t get that in their homes. And so we have become like parents to these kids through my kids coming and bringing their friends.
SPEAKER 05 :
Wow. And you see a real problem with latchkey kids then?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, a lot.
SPEAKER 05 :
What advice do you have to parents? They have to work, at least those in your context do.
SPEAKER 04 :
But I would advise them at least spend some, it’s not really the quantity time, but the quality time with them. They want to be touched. They want to be loved. They want to be able to see that you really care for me and I can talk to you. The child comes and says, Dad, I want to talk to you. I’m too busy. I’m watching football or baseball or something like that. I’m going into the gym. Well, the child already feels rejected. So what’s the next thing? Drugs, alcohol, or go see my girlfriend and get into sex and escape.
SPEAKER 05 :
You’ve been there. You’ve experienced it. What do you say to them? Any advice to them? To the kid right now who, if he sat down and talked to you, you’d say, I got a right to be angry. I haven’t been done right. Nobody’s loved me. Nobody cares about me. I don’t like the way I’m built. I don’t like my face. I can’t learn as well as other people. I don’t do well in football. It hits me in the face. I got a right to be angry. What do you say to them?
SPEAKER 04 :
I would sit down with them and I would share my life with them, first of all. and then share the Word of God, how Jesus Christ loves them so much. And just going through the Scripture, showing them that anything apart from the Word will be rebellion, and it could even be hell for them. And I’m just trying to save them that time so they don’t have to go through what I had to go through. Do they respond to that message? Yes. You know what? Because they know that you care for them. You open your heart to them. And sometimes we cry together, we laugh together, and they see that trueness in your heart.
SPEAKER 05 :
Would you agree, Mike, that sometimes the parent is not the one to do that? Sometimes it needs to be the youth minister or it needs to be the pastor. It needs to be a neighbor or a friend or a church member. Why isn’t the pastor and youth minister afraid of the youth? That’s a good question. You think they are? Yeah, I really do. Mike, I sense you have some criticism of the way youth ministries usually work.
SPEAKER 03 :
When I started in San Diego with those 12 people, we grew to about 75 in three months, and then we grew to 506 months. It was all a lot of teenagers and young college students. But youth ministers would come and say, well, we brought our kids here and so on and so forth. But I found out, and I found in my own life while I was in high school, that it was charades, it was games. And sometimes when I’m asked to speak at a youth camp, they’re missing the point. They’re missing, here are these teenagers that are going to movies that are PG or PG-13 that’s showing… sex between unmarried peoples. They’re swearing left and right. They’re snorting cocaine. They’ve got all the role models that are wrong for them, and they’re hearing it at school. They’re talking it themselves. They’re doing it. And they go to a quote-unquote youth minister who’s talking syrupy things that aren’t even relating to them, but they’re acting like they’re nice kids in front of them. As soon as they leave, they say, gosh, and they go do their own thing. So I feel that the youth minister really… He needs an experience with the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus said, to whom much is forgiven, there’s much love, but to whom little is forgiven, there’s little love. And I’ve found in helping people with the Lord and with the Word that the Lord uses my past a lot, like with Raoul, too, and Franklin, to really share from our heart and not to be afraid of them. They don’t like it when you’re afraid of them, and they know if you’re afraid of them and you’re afraid to… confront him say hey are you and your girlfriend getting it on and after the meeting here because i used to go out and have sex after our meeting and nobody ever stopped me and said now you’re a senior in high school here mike are you and what’s her name uh going out what are you going up there on rocky butte for and sitting there and well we’re nobody ever challenged me and if they would have told me it was in the bible and it’s fornication i would have stopped jesus was confrontational
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, he had some pretty strong things to say to the rich young ruler who walked away from him and he let him go. I think we are afraid of them. We’re afraid to preach the truth. We’re so afraid we won’t build a program.
SPEAKER 03 :
You’d know better than us, though, but hasn’t that been the cycle from generation to generation? Of course. That teenage year, that confrontation. See, that’s what got the hippies with Chuck Smith. He was fearless with the Word of God. I mean, he would just preach the Word of God. We’d come out of Laguna Beach, you know, flying high on LSD, and this wasn’t the Maharishi. This wasn’t a guru. This was a man that was speaking from the Bible that everybody knew was some sort of a special book. And he would say, this is what God’s standard of living is, and are you living this? And then this is how Jesus will help you live that standard. And when somebody would just clearly tell us what the Bible said— You better believe we’ll throw everything away for Jesus if he died for us.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s worth these broadcasts just to get across that message, that the Bible will speak if we give it half a chance. Right. Even to the rebellious youngster who looks like he couldn’t care less, the truth of that word will come through if we don’t edit it. It’ll never return void.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. That’s right.
SPEAKER 05 :
It bothers me that that’s not only done to teenagers, but to adults as well. Preachers today are afraid to lay it down straight. And yet in the first century, why were Christians willing to face the lions? Why were they willing to die for their faith? It was not just some bland something. I mean, this is worth giving their lives to. And it’s the whole gospel that carries that kind of power.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s what Paul told Timothy from your youth up. You’ve known the scriptures been able to save you. And his grandmother and mother had such an influence with the scriptures, they didn’t pull the Bible back from little Timothy. And had somebody stopped me at 16 and said, here, we’re going to help you, it would have saved me 10 years of hell. Would you have listened? Yes, I would have. I was trying, when my brother died, to find somebody to talk to. There was a man that was a stockbroker that lived in our apartment building. I dropped out of high school my senior year. I got so frustrated. Wanted to join the Army. Well, he had said, if you won’t marry this high school sweetheart, when you get out of the National Guard for six months, I’ll give you the money to go to Portland State College. I said, okay, that’s a fair deal. I won’t marry her. So I didn’t get married, but when I came back— She must have felt great about that. Oh, she did, yes. It was a pretty ugly scene. But when I came back, I remember I got a job, and I called him up, and I says, I’m back, and I’ve been working for three months, and fall season’s coming. I need $75 for tuition and books. Could you help me out, and I’ll pay you? He says, I’m really strapped for cash. I can’t help you. Thank you very much, and hung up. He had an opportunity to have me further my education at that time. For $75 for a stockbroker was nothing. He had made a promise to me and then broke the promise. I can think of other times when I looked for help from people. If they would have just given me the time of day, they could have pointed me towards the Bible. The guy in charge of the youth group. I cannot remember him telling me you need to be born again, that you might put your faith in Jesus Christ. And at 19 years old or 18 at that time, had he just told me that, I would have stopped right there and just said, Jesus, I surrender to you. And so I went on all those years till the drinking and the cigarette smoking. Some people could poo-poo that. But that was to me, too, because as an athlete, so I knew I could hurt myself. And some of the kids that are listening right now are only doing the things that they’re doing to hurt themselves because nobody’s giving them the love they really want. And it went from beer to when marijuana nobody heard of. Then I was on my own. I’m going to smoke some marijuana. This will show everybody. Then it went to LSD. And then it went on and I said, well, I’m maybe going too far. Until one trip when I thought a man stuck a .45 to my head and blew my brains out. And it took me two years of psychotherapy to believe that I didn’t have a hole in the side of my head. But all that time under LSD and my mind gone and thinking the left side of my head was missing, I knew I had damaged myself because of the chip on my shoulder of bitterness and anger. I didn’t have a good family. I never had a dad that loved me. I didn’t finish school. Nobody would give me a helping hand. And I would encourage anybody that’s listening, if they’re in a position of authority or a position to help A young man or a young woman, help them. Just reach out right now and help them. If it means pay their tuition, don’t hang on to those stupid dollars.
SPEAKER 05 :
That story explains your passion to reach out to young people, doesn’t it, Mike?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, yeah. You were determined to be to others what others were not to you. Yeah. Now, I hope that’s not a selfish motive, but I think the Lord’s purified my motives in that area. But I realize that if just one life, I should be dead today in hell. And when Christ Jesus stepped into my life and said, hey, you didn’t get your head blown off. You were on drugs and you’re messed up. I’m going to heal you. And I was healed of brain damage, the doctor says. I mean, when they prayed for me and I just came back into my senses after two years of thinking I was gone. That was it. And now I look at these young men and women, our whole nation is wiped out with one of the stupidest things the entire generation brainwashed through drugs. Raul, we need a revival, don’t we?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, we do. And that’s the only thing that’s going to save our nation completely.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s the answer to teen rebellion and about every other problem.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I think God is going to bring revival because I’ve been seeing it in, I think, me and Mike with the kids and we travel and all of us, Franklin. The kids, they want to do right, but they need guidance. They need godly people to guide them.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, you gentlemen have provided a lot of that guidance. I know you love the Lord. You’re working for him. And I feel a real sense of camaraderie with you. I share your burden for young people. We have got to do something to help them. That whole generation and all that you’re talking about. Right. Those little kids. It breaks my heart what we’re doing to kids. We have got to do something about that. We need to make a stand. And the Lord still has the answer.
SPEAKER 02 :
If you’re a parent who’s been praying for what seems like years for your wayward child, the testimonies we heard today here on Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk are proof that God is still in the business of transforming rebellious hearts. On today’s edition of Family Talk, you heard a classic conversation featuring Franklin Graham, Pastor Mike McIntosh, and Pastor Raul Reist. The words and wisdom that were shared on these past couple of programs still ring true. And if you missed any part of this two-day broadcast or you know a mom or dad or a grandma or grandpa who needs this encouragement, I encourage you to go to jdfi.net. As we discuss the topic of dealing with rebellious teenagers, there are many times during that season when a lot of parents come before the Lord, arms extended, tears in their eyes and asking the question, God, this doesn’t make any sense. Why are we going through this season right now? Let’s face it, there are times when we struggle with heartaches and trials that are so severe, we really can’t understand how God could let them happen in the first place. But fortunately, in those situations, he seems not to make any sense at all, but he is working behind the scenes far beyond what we could ever ask or imagine for. Many years ago, Dr. Dobson wrote a powerful book called When God Doesn’t Make Sense. And gleaned from the wisdom of that text, we’ve created a free 10-day email series where these insightful messages can strengthen your faith and show you how dark valleys can bring life’s greatest blessing, which is a closer walk with Jesus. Now, to start receiving the 10-day email series called When God Doesn’t Make Sense, Simply go to JDFI.net and search for that title, When God Doesn’t Make Sense. Again, the email series is absolutely free. All you have to do to sign up is go to JDFI.net and search for that title, When God Doesn’t Make Sense. Every day, you know, we hear from listeners who feel like they’re at the end of the rope. We’re hearing from parents who are watching their children make destructive choices. Grandparents who are grieving over prodigals who have walked away from their faith. They wonder if their prayers are really making any difference at all. And programs like the one you heard today remind them that no one is beyond God’s reach. For more than 15 years, the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute has been a trusted resource for families navigating life’s toughest seasons, offering biblical truth, practical wisdom, and the reminder that God’s grace is sufficient for every struggle. And we are committed to promoting marriage, strengthening families, and pointing people to the gospel of Jesus Christ now like never before. But we can only continue this work because of friends like you who believe in this mission and believe that we have been entrusted to carry on the legacy of Dr. James Dobson, taking this message to new generations and geographies. So if today’s program has encouraged you, we encourage you to partner with us. You can make a secure donation when you go to jdfi.net. You can also call a member of our constituent care team at 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Now, if you’d prefer to write to us, our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Once again, our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, or just use those initials, JDFI for short. P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, 80949. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and on behalf of all of us here at Family Talk and the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you can still trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. Here’s today’s Dr. Dobson Minute with Dr. James Dobson.
SPEAKER 05 :
Since there’s no such creature as a perfect parent, we subject ourselves to a constant cross-examination in the courtroom of parental acceptability. Was I fair in my discipline? Did I overreact out of frustration and anger? Round and round go the self-doubts and recriminations, and guilt becomes a constant companion. The best way to handle guilt is to face it squarely, using it as a source of motivation for change where warranted. I would suggest that parents sit down together and discuss their feelings. Then ask yourselves, is my guilt valid? Can I do anything about it? If so, how? If not, isn’t it appropriate that I lay the matter to rest? Remember that none of us can be perfect parents. Fortunately, we’re permitted to make many mistakes through the years, provided the overall tone is somewhere near the right note.
SPEAKER 02 :
For more information, visit drdobsonminute.org. This is Roger Marsh from Family Talk. The freedoms we enjoy today were hard won by those who came before us, and it’s up to all of us to protect them. Here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, we’re committed to defending religious liberty and the timeless values that shaped our nation. Through our broadcasts, articles, and resources, we equip you to stand for godly principles in your own community. So thank you for partnering with us to protect faith, family, and freedom for future generations.
