Welcome to the Kim Monson Show podcast. Kim Monson is your host. Forced charity is not charity. Presidents of Liberty Toastmasters Denver Marshall Dawson and Liberty Toastmasters North Cathy Russell and my fellow Liberty Toastmasters discuss the difference between benevolence and altruism. Colorado, along with 20 other states, sue the Trump administration over cuts to homeless housing. Homelessness expert Michele Steeb addresses “more spending, more suffering-the failures of America’s homelessness policy.” CEO Meghan Shay explains that Step Denver and Step Springs take no government money and successfully help men get out of the homelessness cycle. ————————————————————————————– The Kim Monson
SPEAKER 15 :
It’s the Kim Monson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 03 :
The socialization of transportation, education, energy, housing, and water. What it means is that government controls it through rules and regulations.
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The latest in politics and world affairs.
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Under this guise of bipartisanship and nonpartisanship, it’s actually tapping down the truth.
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Today’s current opinions and ideas.
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On an equal field in the battle of ideas, mistruths and misconceptions is getting us into a world of hurt.
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Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
SPEAKER 06 :
Indeed, let’s have a conversation. In fact, we’re going to have a number of different conversations today. Pleased to be with you today. My name is Marshall Dawson. I’m sitting in for Kim Monson. In studio with me is Kathy Russell. And Kathy, good morning.
SPEAKER 24 :
Good morning, Marshall. I am so excited about this show. There’s a lot of great stuff here. Some of my favorite topics.
SPEAKER 06 :
Same here. We are doing Toastmasters Day on a Monday. Do you remember that movie Office Space? Did you ever see that? No, never did. There was a character that always said, oh, somebody has a case of the Mondays. I feel like that’s me today.
SPEAKER 24 :
Oh, it doesn’t.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’ve been having trouble getting started, but we are going to have a great conversation. And to each of you, thank you for listening. Each of you are treasured, you’re valued, and you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence. Take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. We were made for this moment in history. We have producer Joe behind the glass. Joe, thank you for letting us in this morning.
SPEAKER 22 :
Of course. My pleasure, Marshall.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, and I’m not going to say happy Monday. Those words just don’t flow like they should. But anyway, happy day. Let’s go with that. The website is KimMonson.com. You can sign up for Kim’s weekly email newsletter. You can get the first look at all of her upcoming guests as well as the most recent essays. You can email her at Kim at KimMonson.com. And we do like to say a special thank you to the Harris family for their gold sponsorship of the show. And Hooters Restaurant. Hooters, Colorado is your neighborhood wing joint, home of the world-famous Hooter Girls and craveable wings that make game day legendary. Whether you’re catching the basketball game, UFC, or just meeting up with your crew, Hooters is where the energy’s high, the beer’s cold, and the wings are always saucy. There’s three locations, Loveland, Westminster, and Aurora. Now, how about we get to the word of the day? I picked one that really resonated. It really kind of, I felt, described me at some times. Today’s word is recalcitrant. It’s an adjective. It’s spelled R-E-C-A-L-C-I-T-R-A-N-T. You’ll see why I liked it so much right here. It means stubbornly resistant to or defiant of authority or guidance. It can also mean difficult to manage or operate, not responsible or sorry, not responsive to treatment or resistive behavior. And our quote for today, I picked because of our topic that we’re going to be discussing with our Liberty Toastmasters a little bit later. This comes from Benjamin Franklin. Franklin was one of our founding fathers. He was a polymath. He was a scientist, publisher, statesman, and many, many other things. Born in 1706. This comes from Poor Richard’s Almanac in 1757. Proportion your charity to the strength of your estate, or God will proportion your estate to the weakness of your charity.
SPEAKER 24 :
Oh, that’s awesome.
SPEAKER 06 :
How do you like that?
SPEAKER 24 :
That’s really good.
SPEAKER 06 :
Ben Franklin had so many just wonderful quotes. At least he gets credit for them now. I wonder if he sat around and just tried to dream up things that we would talk about years and years and years later.
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah, he’s a great guy.
SPEAKER 06 :
How about some headlines, Kathy? Hey, did you watch any Olympics?
SPEAKER 24 :
I confess I did not.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, no. I watched a little bit, but mostly just so that I could come here and say that I had.
SPEAKER 24 :
Oh, good. What was the highlight?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, last night, the highlight was the USA men’s team beating Canada.
SPEAKER 24 :
Yes! Hooray!
SPEAKER 06 :
And actually, that was on the 46th anniversary, if you can believe that, of the Miracle on Ice. Do you remember? Do you recall that? Were you a hockey fan back then?
SPEAKER 11 :
No.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know what? I wasn’t either, but I do remember that evening and… and just the overwhelming joy and pride when the men’s team back then defeated the Soviet Union, and the Soviets were heavy favorites. If I remember right, the Soviets might have won something like five out of the last six hockey matches in the Olympics. Well, I’ll tell you what, on this day in Colorado, Homestake Avalanche in 1885 killed nine miners in Leadville, Kathy, you know, up our way, we have Lafayette, Colorado. Did you know on this day in 1889, Lafayette was incorporated? Also in 1881, Pitkin County is created from a portion of Gunnison, Colorado. You know, Joe, it occurred to me, I’ve never done this on a Monday. I think the Monday guests, I think you get to have headlines and on this day from the entire weekend. I don’t know. So we talked about the Olympics. Also, Kathy, I want to get your opinion on something. To me, it sort of felt like tariffs and getting shot down by the Supreme Court was becoming old news. And it wasn’t. That just happened Friday. So even our Friday guest was not able to talk about that. It was decided that Trump could not use emergency powers to determine tariffs. So do you have any initial thoughts on this?
SPEAKER 24 :
My initial thoughts are just that in general, I think I’m one of the people who initially thought tariffs were a bad idea, but then the more that I’ve been learning about how our country was set up, and just the realization that we don’t have a level playing field with all the other countries who are effectively putting tariffs on us, so it’s a kind of insanity to be hurting American citizens, American workers, And essentially giving away our country to other peoples who don’t play fair.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, I sort of came down on the same side as that. As a matter of principle, I’m not in favor of tariffs when it comes to economic policy. However, you know, Trump surprised me. He sort of made a believer out of me that they can be used effectively for negotiations. And to me, it seems like Trump has just been masterful at that. So… You know, I’m torn on this. I think it is very important that the Supreme Court ensures that we are getting things right and proper. This is not the only avenue that the president has for setting tariffs. So, you know, we can expect to see tariffs continuing, but under different statutes. I think it is, as I say, important to get that right. And I think Joe said he had something.
SPEAKER 22 :
Was it something on tariffs, Joe? Yes, sir, it was. My concern is, well, it’s a very useful tool, but when you overuse a tool, you end up forgetting about the other tools at your disposal. And that’s what I worry that he’s going to do.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think that’s a fair point. And, you know, where I was going is our president has been using all the tools at his disposal, in my opinion, has been walking right up to the edge of the line on what has been delegated to him both through the Constitution as well as powers that Congress has given him. And you know what, sometimes your toe is going to dip over that line a little bit. And I think it’s perfectly fine for the Supreme Court to say, you know what, not this time. And as a result, look, the president is going to have the president’s rhetoric. We know how that is. So I would say don’t get too worked up over the things that he’s saying about the Supreme Court right now. We will get this worked out and things will be resolved.
SPEAKER 22 :
I agree. It’s just, you know, kind of at the back of my mind just in case. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah. Another point, too, with Trump and all of his powers, I think in an ideal world, we wouldn’t have such a powerful president that the power would reside more in Congress. But they goofed and they gave that power to the president. And now we’re kind of stuck with backtracking on all those mistakes.
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s almost like you’ve been reading my mind for the last four or six years since I’ve been involved with politics. Our founders never really intended for the president to have this much power. And yet it’s much easier, I think, to stand for reelection if you don’t have your name tied to so many policies that could be unpopular with one group or another. Yeah. Well, let’s move on here just a little bit. There was… Sorry, I’ve got to get my pages together here, searching. Well, I can do it without looking. There was some violence this weekend in Mexico. It was rather shocking. And the U.S. Embassy has put out a message to Americans in Mexico to shelter in place while this is happening. Here we go. Americans told to shelter in place across Mexico after Almento’s death spreads widespread cartel violence. I got this off Breitbart. The U.S. Embassy issued this emergency alert Sunday, and this came after the Mexican government killed a top cartel leader, the CJNG, Cartel Jalisco New Generation. This leader’s name was El Mencho, or I think that’s what he went by. Maybe that wasn’t his actual name. You know, when I was looking at pictures and videos of this, I have to admit, it reminded me of Democrat-run cities when they start rioting with all the fires and vehicles in the street where they’re setting up blockades. It’s affected air travel. So that’s something that certainly for the rest of the day I think we should have on our radar.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Here’s something else that I thought was really interesting, especially in the age of technology. And, Kathy, I’m going to be interested in your opinion on this. But OpenAI knew about the alleged transgender mass shooter in British Columbia but didn’t report it ahead of time. Internally, about a dozen staffers debated whether to take action on these posts. I’m not going to name the name. Some employees interpreted them as an indication of real-world violence. So a couple of things, right? It’s an indication that, number one, they probably could have saved some lives. But number two, OpenAI and ChatGPT, if you’re thinking about it, has direct access to what you’re typing in. And they can go and look and see, you know, your nature of the relationship that you have with this machine. So what do you think about that, Kathy Russell?
SPEAKER 24 :
I think that I’m going to shift away to using grok, which doesn’t do that. That’s just a horrible violation. It’s insane.
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s pretty wild, and I think it serves as a good reminder that when it comes to our tech companies, you are actually the product. Your data, your things that you’re typing in there, you’re not doing it privately.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 06 :
As sad as that story is, I think it’s a good lesson. Well, let me tell you, a great sponsor of the show is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team, and they want you to feel safe and well-served, to understand your insurance coverage, and know that their office will respond to your call or text 24 hours a day. For that 24-hour peace of mind, call Roger Mangan at 303-795-8855. Like a good neighbor, Roger Mangan’s team is there.
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To learn more, reach out to Kim at kim at kim monson.com kim would love to talk with you again that’s kim at kim monson.com
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to the Kim Monson Show. This is Marshall Dawson. Kathy Russell and I are sitting in for Kim today. This is quite a treat. Actually, first time I’ve done this on a Monday, but we’re going to get through it just fine. I’ll tell you what, the guest hosts that Kim has had as she’s been traveling this time have completely knocked it out of the park. Kathy, the bar is set pretty high for us, but thankfully we’re going to be talking to some of our Liberty Toastmaster friends here shortly.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, they’re great.
SPEAKER 06 :
And so they’re going to help us carry it on through. Well, check out Kim’s website, which is KimMonson.com. And you can email her at Kim at KimMonson.com. And thank you for contributing to support Kim’s independent voice and the exercise of our freedom of speech. And through all of Kim’s work with veterans, she’s honored to highlight the USMC Memorial Foundation. and all that they are doing to raise money to remodel the official USMC Memorial, which is located right here in Golden, Colorado, at 6th and Colfax. Paula Sarles is the president of the foundation. She’s a Marine veteran and a Gold Star wife. Paula and her team are working diligently to make the remodel a reality. You can help by donating at usmcmemorialfoundation.org. That’s usmcmemorialfoundation.org. We have some more headlines to talk about. Let’s shift our gears to Colorado this time. Sadly, our legislature is in session, and we know all the many bad things that came out of that. One of the things that popped up here recently, and I got this from the Denver Gazette, is immigration resolution ignites hours of debate in the Colorado House. A joint resolution affirming lawmakers’ commitment to Coloradans navigating the complex United States immigration system sparked more than three hours of debate on the House floor on Tuesday morning. And the resolution seeks to condemn the actions of federal immigration agents. Of course it does. And, you know, I’ll call out, well, that sounds negative, Representative Carlos Barron, a Republican from Fort Lupton, who spoke about his experience as an immigrant from Mexico, and he emphasized legal immigration. He said, the first conversation around immigration, sorry, the conversation around immigration is deeply personal to me, he said. I know firsthand the pride, responsibility, and contributions that immigrants bring to our community. And he said, I truly believe in legal immigration. I push that for everybody. I’m not trying to push away immigrants. I’m trying to emphasize the importance of becoming part of this great nation.
SPEAKER 24 :
That’s so great. So glad to hear his message. And it’s so sad that so many people on the left believe that there’s no difference between an illegal immigrant and an illegal immigrant. And it’s just so tragic.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, we’ve seen a lot of the behaviors around our sanctuary cities and those types of policies. Do you think that they are completely bought in, that we need, number one, do we need the illegal immigration, or is it that they are just bleeding hearts and they’re very compassionate? Or do you think that there’s an element of this which is recoiling against the Trump administration?
SPEAKER 24 :
I think both of those things are going on. Some of my friends are fully convinced that Trump, the only reason he wants to stop them is that he’s a racist. And they also believe that we need more more immigrants in here, and I agree. Like you said, many people want more legal immigrants. I think that’s kind of, maybe that’s not universal, but Trump himself has said that he wants more legal immigrants. It’s just when people come across illegally that everything goes haywire. And yeah, it’s just a tragedy what’s happening.
SPEAKER 06 :
You definitely live in a different environment than I do. With these friends that you have these conversations with, do they ever bring up Obama and talk about some of his policies?
SPEAKER 24 :
No, they have no awareness that under Obama, or even most recently under Biden, when Biden let in at least 8.9 million people,
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, I think that’s low, yeah.
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah, that’s the official statistics. And nobody knows that he sent back at least $5 million. And the tragedy of that is horrendous. And anybody who is compassionate, I don’t know how they could allow that to happen because Statistics are that something like 30% to 80% of the women who come into our country are raped. And that’s insane. That is so horrifying.
SPEAKER 06 :
It really ignores the human story in all of this and the human tragedy. And that’s one of the things that enrages me. Setting the politics aside and setting policies aside, the fact that – gosh, I hate going back and complaining about the Biden administration. But those policies and the tolls that they were having on the individuals –
SPEAKER 24 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 06 :
That were only seeking to make a better life for themselves.
SPEAKER 24 :
Exactly. Yeah. Spending their entire life savings to come over here and then being turned immediately back. That’s just not compassionate at all.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Well, let’s look at another Colorado story here, Kathy. I think we’ll find this a little bit interesting. This comes from Denver 7. Two weeks after announcing difficult decisions, RTD leaders will cut jobs to reduce the budget deficit. This was an unspecified number of jobs, but they said that it should result in $10.7 million in savings. RTD calls these cuts operations realignment. Fancy words, right? Just to juxtapose that $10.7 million, their 2025 personnel costs were $431 million. And they have a little more than 3,100 employees. So it’s not a huge amount, but if you start trying to do the math, that $10 million can be a fair number of people. Now, RTD, I don’t think, has the best track record as serving the needs of the Colorado commuters. Do you have any thoughts on this one, Kathy Russell?
SPEAKER 24 :
Inefficiency. It’s just mind-blowing that they could even be in business. Because in my town of Boulder, the RTD buses, so many of them, there’s like one or two riders on this ginormous bus. And any sensible business would either get smaller buses or change the schedule. They would just become more efficient. They wouldn’t have this massive inefficiency.
SPEAKER 06 :
And I think down this way, when I say down, I’m in Longmont, right? So both of us are from Boulder County. Down this way, RTD has a reputation for building the trains to where the rich people are.
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
And not really serving the mass population as they should be. One of the things that I found particularly interesting in this article was that one of the people that they interviewed tried to say, well, these savings are going to be coming from a lot of jobs which aren’t currently filled. Okay, let’s think about that. So we’re not spending the money right now, and we’re going to save money by not spending money. Now, I know that there’s some accountant out there or, you know, some executive who deals with finance, and I just made their ears bleed. But, you know, it’s not the policy. It was the messaging that really caught my attention on that one.
SPEAKER 22 :
Let’s hear it. So it’s really interesting that you put it that way because there’s also a, like, downhill loss in revenue as well because all those buses are really, really heavy, and they’re tearing up our roads, but they don’t ever fix the roads. So, I mean, that’s just extra cost and crude on top of what you just said. That’s a really good point. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, we’re going to go to a break here shortly. I want to say happy birthday to a few people. If today’s your birthday, happy birthday. You would share a birthday with, let’s see, Michael Dell, Dell Computers, and recently in the headlines last year for his $6.25 billion for the Trump accounts.
SPEAKER 24 :
Oh, I love those Trump accounts. That is the best idea ever.
SPEAKER 06 :
Is it? Well, see, maybe we should have a discussion on that at some point. I have mixed feelings on it. I think the recipients will have a lot of good benefits. I don’t like the idea of government being involved. But let’s go on to break. We can report more birthdays and more things that happened on today here shortly. But these conversations are thanks in part to great sponsors like Karen Levine.
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All Kim’s sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Monson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmonson.com. That’s Kim Monson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to the Tim Monson Show. I’m Marshall Dawson. Filling in for Kim today, Kathy Russell is in the studio with me, and we’re going to be doing our Liberty Toastmasters here shortly. So, Kathy, great to have you in the studio.
SPEAKER 24 :
Oh, it’s great to be here, Marshall.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think it’s going to be wonderful today. Listen, sign up for Kim’s weekly newsletter at the website, KimMonson.com. You can email her at Kim at KimMonson.com. And thank you for contributing to support our independent voice and the exercise of the right to freedom of speech. And each of us has a unique goal in our life. With over 25 years of experience and the credentials of an accredited investment fiduciary, Jody Henze and her team at Mint Financial Strategies can help you create a strategy-first wealth plan built for you. Whether you’re preparing for retirement, planning for education costs, or navigating major life transitions, Mint Financial Strategies will design a customized strategy to help you invest confidently and move forward with clarity for your life. Call Mint Financial Strategies today at 303-285-3080 to embark on your journey to financial freedom. That’s 303-285-3080. All right, Kathy. We are, as I say, doing our Liberty Toastmasters today. This is the first time I’ve seen us do it on Monday, but we are going to make the best use of a Monday as far as I’m concerned. So what is our theme today?
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah, our theme today is benevolence, the quality of being kind, helpful, and generous versus altruism, or what I would call toxic altruism, which according to Ayn Rand is harmful because it demands excessive self-sacrifice and denies individual rights by the use of force.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right, I think there’s a lot of confusion between benevolence and altruism, so let’s hear what our friends have to say. Who’s our first caller?
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah, our first caller is Rick Rome. Rick, are you there?
SPEAKER 14 :
I am here, and good morning. Before I begin, I’d like to illustrate that I’m actually an engineer, and I love acronyms, and I’ve come to realize that RTD stands for Reason to Drive. Make no mistake. Now, on the topic… I have a good friend, Bill, and I’ve known him for a long time, and Bill’s a little bit off. And he would say things like, you know, Rick, you give a man a bud, he smokes for a day, you teach him to trim, and he smokes for a lifetime. Very wise man. I have no idea what his source of wisdom was, but it was empowering to me. It helped me to understand a lot about that relationship between altruism and benevolence. You see, we are a kind and generous nation, and we’re able to do so Because we have those blessings of liberty, that freedom of expression to express our ideas, express our art, express our work product, and rise to the highest form of person that we can be in this society. It is a wonderful thing. And it feels good to give to people, whether you’re doing so out of the goodness of your heart or even doing so to the detriment of someone else. it’s innate within us. It’s part of who we are as Americans. It’s part of who we are as people. But I have to ask the question, is there a point where we’re doing more harm than good by not setting expectations? And that’s where the difference between benevolence and altruism starts to come in. We look at public policies, things like housing, Section 8 housing. I’ve seen landlords who’ve been really burned by it because there’s no expectation set in the condition of the home or how you choose to live. There’s no expectation established for the generosity of the public body to help you have shelter, to help you have a home. We look at what happened with food stamps and the SNAP program when the… Our friends on the left decided to shut down the government for 45 days. People were in a panic who were dependent on those food stamps, dependent on that source of supply, because food is the one thing that you absolutely have to have. And we see it in our immigration policies. By not setting an expectation that you learn the language, understand the history, adapt to the culture. What we’re actually doing is creating a hostage situation. It’s very altruistic where it’s damaging not only to the people who are receiving that benefit, but damaging to the people who are providing it. And we see it play out in real time. Now, what happens when you start to set expectations? And we do this in Toastmasters all the time with speakers, people who are coming in who are definitely afraid to speak, afraid to get on the stage. We establish an expectation that you try your best, that you understand what it is you’re trying to do, get on the stage, take your chance and learn from it. That’s an expectation that is empowering. And I’ve come to realize that every single time we establish an expectation, especially with young people, They take to it because they realize that benefit between risk and reward is very real, and it allows them to rise above their situation and become more than they thought they could be.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you, Rick. And I’ll tell you what, your word of expectations resonated with me. I’m just going to throw this out there. You want to stick around for the 7 o’clock hour, the 7 a.m. hour. We’re going to be talking some good stuff and expectations, in my opinion, is going to be an important part of it. Do you have any initial thoughts, Kathy?
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah. Well, Rick, I loved what you said about it feels good to give. And that is so true. You can see that when people give back. bread to birds you know or I mean people just love to give that’s what humans are and you’re absolutely right it goes terribly wrong appreciate that Rick always appreciate your thoughts yeah thank you Kathy who’s up next our next guest is Greg Morrissey from Liberty Toastmasters North in Longmont hey Greg good morning how we doing good outstanding that’s good
SPEAKER 16 :
I had to go through the dictionary and find out more about altruism to find out what it means. And then you talk about the difference between benevolence and altruism. One appears to be that you just keep on giving to the people, and they don’t have an opportunity, and they just stay where they’re at. They won’t grow. My immediate needs are met. I’m just going to stay there. But the other one is you give this person… You give them a chance, but then they’ve got to get off their feet, get on their feet, and become a better person. I think the difference between being benevolent to someone and having an altruism, benevolent, you just keep on giving. The person doesn’t do anything, doesn’t get a job, doesn’t do anything like that. If I’m understanding correctly, you go to altruism, you give them the opportunity, there’s instruction, and further down the road, overcome what the trials have gone through, but they can just stand on their own two feet and become a good member in society. And right now, especially in Colorado, we need a lot of good members in society with the changes that are occurring. Did you hear about the man who ran Planet Air? He left and went to Florida?
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, Palantir. Oh, my gosh, yes.
SPEAKER 16 :
Palantir, yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, Colorado.
SPEAKER 16 :
Didn’t say a word to anyone, just got up and left. Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Colorado’s largest publicly traded company, if I’m not mistaken.
SPEAKER 16 :
Oh, dang. Correct. Yeah. Being here for six years, just got up and left. And I think some of that’s to do with the policies, how Colorado runs and how he sees people. He wants to be an area where people go get us, not sitting back doing nothing.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. That’s my say on that. And being that to myself and being an immigrant coming over to this country, no one gave it to me. I had to get off my butt and go out and meet people, get a job, get going, and here I am.
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah. Great. Well, thank you, Greg. You’re welcome. You know, Greg, you brought up the best point. I think this is so overlooked. And it’s about, yeah, when altruism gives to people, but it ignores their dignity, people’s need to contribute. And benevolence helps people grow. That is so important. And I see that among people. Those who don’t contribute, they’re miserable. They don’t know what their purpose in life is. They’re so miserable that they turn to drugs and drugs. all kinds of horrible, self-destructive behaviors. But people who know that they’re contributing, they feel great.
SPEAKER 16 :
They should just come to Toastmasters, start speaking, get some self-confidence, and stand on their own two feet.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Thanks, Greg. We’ll see you Saturday. Now, Kathy, you’re president of Liberty Toastmasters North, and that club meets when?
SPEAKER 24 :
It meets on the second and fourth Saturdays of every month from 10 o’clock till noon.
SPEAKER 06 :
And I’m president of Liberty Toastmasters in Denver. If this was a competition, I think you would be winning. The club in Longmont is on fire. But I’m optimistic about the club in Denver. We’ve had a bunch of new people join us. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, it’s been growing. So that one’s exciting, too. Who’s on the phone next, Kathy?
SPEAKER 24 :
Our next person is Fred Clifford.
SPEAKER 12 :
Good morning, Fred.
SPEAKER 24 :
Good morning, Fred.
SPEAKER 12 :
Good morning, Kathy. Good morning, Marshall. It’s good to be on today. And, you know, I was listening to Greg, and I thought, I sort of agree with what he’s saying, but not 100%, because I don’t really see a difference between altruism and compassion or benevolence. But the main difference is it’s a free will choice. If you have a free will choice, you can give whatever you want to. And I was thinking, I read Atlas Shrugged twice. And the second time I had a different edition, which had an appendix in the back that explained the tenets of objectivism. And, you know, I like some of them, but then I realized from reading that appendix that I don’t follow objectivism. Because one of the major tenets was atheism. And I think atheism is kind of an extreme, crazy religion. And I would find the lifestyle of an atheist rather boring. I can’t imagine why we like to go through life without experiencing answers to prayer on a regular basis. So how do I see altruism, compassion, benevolence, whatever you want to call it? It’s probably a little bit different than the way the character John Galt saw it. And I see three legitimate ways to get rid of, or so to speak, of your wealth. The fruit of your labor. For one, you can exchange the fruit of your labor for a product, an item that you want. Secondly, you can exchange the fruit of your labor for a service. Last summer, I was overwhelmed by weeds, and I paid somebody, I don’t remember how much, it was $250, $300 to get rid of your weeds, my weeds. Thirdly, you can give something of the fruit of your labor out of love. You can also give away your labor or service out of love. And this year on New Year’s Eve, New Year’s Day I think it was, I went to a restaurant. I was so impressed with the waitress that I gave a much bigger tip than I normally give. And I think John Galt would have, the fictional character John Galt would have agreed with me on that because I saw value in that waitress. But not all giving situations is like that. And going back to what Greg said, I had a friend that kept coming to me for, for loans and and help once in a while and i eventually had to cut him off because it just seemed like he was self-destructive and that was the best thing for him so i you know even the act of cutting him off was an act of compassion or altruism and you know sometimes we do things for which we’re compensated um but we don’t really do it for the compensation i was i was at the retreat this weekend And Will Kane was the speaker at the lunch on Saturday. And that’s, by the way, why I wasn’t at the meeting on Saturday, Marshall. And he had a great line. He says, we don’t work just for a living. He says, we also work to build our community. And I agree with that a lot. You know, I get paid every two weeks. And so every two weeks I get a direct deposit and an email with my pay stub. But I don’t really think about that pay stub on a day-to-day basis. As a teacher, my main focus is helping the students. When I go every day or three times a week, that’s what I’m thinking about. I want them to learn. And that also reminds me of what I… when I was in theater. As an actor, you try to figure out the motivation for everything your character does. And they always wanted me to figure out what was in it for the character. Altruism was never a consideration. I don’t think they knew it existed. And one other thing, I like the idea of redistribution of wealth, but certainly not redistribution of wealth by government. When government does it, there is no compassion, there’s no love, there’s no benevolence. There’s just theft. When individuals give the fruit of their labor, it’s a beautiful thing. Love and compassion is a much better thing than theft. So what do you think about that?
SPEAKER 24 :
Oh, Fred, that was great. I totally agree with you that wealth distribution is a beautiful thing when it’s voluntary. And it’s theft and coercion when the government does it.
SPEAKER 06 :
And good. Fred, you just about stopped my heart when you said that you believe in redistribution of wealth there.
SPEAKER 24 :
To loved ones.
SPEAKER 06 :
That was a good one. Yeah. And by the way, Fred, you mentioned the retreat. At Saturday’s meeting, I did thank the people who showed up for choosing Liberty Toastmasters over Leadership Program of the Rockies that day. But we had a good meeting. And surely it was a good retreat. I mean, there were some great, great speakers there. I was sorry that I missed it. Oh, yeah. Jonathan Turley was my favorite.
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, I love that guy.
SPEAKER 06 :
He’s always top notch.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Fred, thank you so much. I guess I’ll see you next time then. Sounds good. And Kathy Rosalind is in studio with me, and we’re going to go to break, Kathy. And, you know, these conversations are thanks in part to great sponsors of Kim’s show, like Lorne Levy.
SPEAKER 23 :
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SPEAKER 07 :
I’ll go tell them. That’s twice the distance of Paul Revere to sound the alarm. Quickly. assemble at my father’s house the kim monson show is our modern day sybil luddington bringing us the latest breaking news in the battle for truth and freedom ben’s plumbing heating and cooling is proud to stand with kim will you stand with us get engaged with the issue that keeps you up at night so that you can influence your school and community with truth and justice And for quality craftsmanship at a fair price, call or text Ben’s Plumbing, Heating, and Cooling at 303-995-1636. That number again is 303-995-1636.
SPEAKER 05 :
So much noise coming at us. Sometimes it is difficult to make sense of it all. How can you sift through the clamor for your attention and get to the truth? The Kim Monson Show is here to help. Kim searches for truth and clarity by examining issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Tune in to the Kim Monson Show each weekday, 6 to 8 a.m. with encores 1 to 2 p.m. and 10 to 11 p.m. on KLZ 560 AM, KLZ 100.7 FM. The KLZ website, the KLZ app, and Alexa. Play KLZ. Shows can also be found at KimMonson.com, Spotify, and iTunes.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to the Kim Monson Show. This is Marshall Dawson. I’m sitting in for her. Kim will return at some point. I think it’s tomorrow. I should have looked that up. And Kathy Russell is in studio with me. Kathy Russell is president of Liberty Toastmasters North in Longmont. Check out Kim’s website at kimmonson.com. And… Also, I want to mention the Center for American Values, which is located in Pueblo on the beautiful Riverwalk. The center is focused on the foundational values of America, honor, integrity, patriotism. Through their K-12 educational programs, training for educators, and portraits of valor of over 160 Medal of Honor recipients, the Center is helping to instill integrity, honor, and patriotism for our next generations. Check out their website. It’s AmericanValueCenter.org. That’s AmericanValueCenter.org. And today is Liberty Toastmasters Day, Kathy. What is our topic and who’s our next caller?
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah, our topic is benevolence, the quality of being kind, helpful, and generous versus altruism, which according to Ayn Rand is harmful because it demands excessive self-sacrifice and denies individual rights by the use of force. And our next caller is Ross Klopp from Liberty Toastmasters in Denver. Ross, how are you doing?
SPEAKER 08 :
Hey, Ross. I’m doing really good. Good. I’ve got a little bit different take, not way different, but a little bit different take on this. The way I look at this is when I want to be giving money out to an organization, I want as much of that money to go where it’s supposed to as possible. I want it to be as efficient with that dollar as as possible. And every study that I have seen has shown private organizations are way more efficient than a federal government that hasn’t balanced a budget in 26 years. So that’s kind of the way I look at it. The other thing is they’re taxing us such a high rate, it actually makes it harder for us to give to a charity because we don’t have nearly as much money to work with. when a bunch of it’s stolen from us. So that is extremely unfortunate. If we had a more reasonable tax rate, it’d be a lot easier for us to give more to charities. So that’s the other thing that is kind of an issue. And then one other thing that’s been concerning me lately a lot is, I mean, we all know about regular welfare programs, and they have their problems for sure, But there’s also corporate welfare, and it has the same issues that regular welfare has. Some examples of it are like the CHIPS Act that got passed right after COVID. And it basically just gives money to the chip companies to the tune of a total of $284 billion over 10 years. And just like a regular welfare program, These corporations actually get hooked on getting that money and they kind of get dependent on it if it’s there too long. So it’s crucial that we get rid of this corporate welfare as quickly as we can or it becomes a permanent issue. And we’ve seen that happen with our subsidies for food subsidies that were put in during the Great Depression. It’s gotten to the point where we could remove it, but it would take a lot of work. So it is crucial to get rid of these corporate subsidies and so on. One example where we actually did get rid of them quickly, and luckily we did, is the Cash for Clunkers program. That was a complete waste of money. Oh, yeah. And that was right after the financial crisis. They wanted to help the car companies out.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
And that turned out to be a complete disaster. So… Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of work that needs to be done on our taxes to make it more fair and make it so we’re not losing a ton of our money every paycheck. And that would help, I think. That would make it a lot easier for us to give significant amounts of our money. Then it would actually do a lot more good. So I think it would be a win-win if we’re able to do that.
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you, Ross.
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah, thank you, Ross. Yeah, I loved a couple of your points that you want to be efficient. Government policy makes it harder and harder to give, and corporate welfare is a problem. So thank you for those points. Thanks. Yeah. And next up is Dave Walden from Liberty Toastmasters North. Hey, Dave, how are you doing?
SPEAKER 17 :
Good morning, Kathy and Marshall. Hello. You know, I would urge Kim and whoever probably gets Kim, that she devote an entire show or series of shows on this subject. And the reason I say this is because if you give it a little thought, most of our current social dialogue in forums such as this one, is on politics. And the fact is that politics flows directly from what a culture’s view of morality is. If you decide what you believe is good, just, proper, right, and you’re comfortable with your answer, it is only logical that you will attempt to practice that with your politics. And that leads me to my next point. And that is this. Altruism, allegedly kindness, compassion, thoughtfulness, caring, whatever, is simply, in my mind, a cloaking device. Because altruism… is entirely different than benevolence, though benevolence is what is thought of when one thinks of altruism. And I would say that, you know, as a final point, three minutes is not much time, but human beings, they want and need and strive for two things with their lives. First is material life. Improvement, security, life, the stuff that makes life possible, material values. But the second thing that they think of and strive for is they want whatever they’re doing to get those material values to have meaning. And so they will always seek meaning no matter what it is they’re trying to do. Now capitalism, or let me put it this way, individual liberty, freedom, and the capitalism that such liberty creates has taken care of in an unprecedented manner material needs. However, spiritual needs, the meaning of those material satisfactions is seemingly very elusive. And I would urge everyone to consider the possibility that altruism, and when it is invaded, invades politics, compulsory altruism is nakedly evil. And it creates the exact opposite of what is intended. So in three minutes, that’s all I can say about that subject.
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah, Dave, that’s fantastic. I love that. Cloaking device. Altruism as a cloaking device. That’s really good. And I have to say, I agree with you that, yeah, people want material benefits, but then just as importantly, they need meaning, purpose, and spiritual needs. And it seems that our government, many bureaucrats tend to hijack that spiritual need and and use altruism or goodness in order to gain more power. And it’s just such a, it’s so important. And I agree with you. We need more conversations about this.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, and this is really going to inform, I think, also what we’re talking about in the second hour. Dave, you mentioned the social dialogue in politics. We’re going to be talking about some important things, and I’m going to do my best to keep politics out of it. But in the final few seconds, I think of the difference between benevolence and altruism as the motivation. I would say that benevolence is you are doing this for yourself. It could be a reward in heaven. It could be to make your community better. Altruism is simply do it because I said so. And really what that kind of comes down to is, and Dave, I think I’ve heard you say this before, but in order to be moral, you have to have the choice to be such. You cannot be a moral person if you don’t have the opportunity to select not to be moral and not to be good and giving. So, Kathy, we just have a few seconds left. What are your final thoughts here?
SPEAKER 24 :
Oh, this is a fantastic conversation. And as Dave said, I think we should have more of these conversations. And because some people I’m one of those people who believes that the number one problem facing our country is what I call itch. inconsiderate kindness, which is when people think they’re doing something kind, but they don’t consider the consequences of what’s going on.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’m going to use that one. So today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. You are not alone. God bless you, and God bless America. We’ll be right back with hour number two.
SPEAKER 10 :
fast on a rough road riding high through the mountains climbing twisting turning further from my home young like a new moon rising fierce to the I don’t want no one to cry, but tell them if I do.
SPEAKER 01 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 15 :
It’s the Kim Monson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 03 :
The socialization of transportation, education, energy, housing, and water, what it means is that government controls it through rules and regulations.
SPEAKER 15 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 03 :
Under this guise of bipartisanship and nonpartisanship, it’s actually tapping down the truth.
SPEAKER 15 :
Today’s current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 03 :
On an equal field in the battle of ideas, mistruths and misconceptions is getting us into a world of hurt.
SPEAKER 15 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
SPEAKER 06 :
Let’s have that conversation. Good morning. My name is Marshall Dawson. I’m sitting in for Kim Monson today. And in studio with me is Kathy Russell. Kathy, we had a rousing conversation about altruism and benevolence earlier.
SPEAKER 24 :
Yeah, I think that is such an important question. Good.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. So to our listeners, thank you for listening. Each of you are treasured and valued and you have a purpose. Today’s strive for excellence. Take care of your heart, your soul, your mind and your body. We were made for this moment in history. And thank you, producer Joe, for your team and your good work. I swear Joe always keeps the wheels turning and the plates spinning back there.
SPEAKER 22 :
It’s my pleasure. That’s my job.
SPEAKER 06 :
Great. It’s good to have jobs. Kim’s website is KimMonson.com, K-M-M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for Kim’s weekly email newsletter. You’ll get a first look at all our upcoming guests as well as the most recent essays. You can email her at Kim at KimMonson.com. And thank you for contributing to support our independent voice and the exercise of our right to freedom of speech. Thank you to the Harris family for their gold sponsorship of the show. And let me tell you about Little Richie’s. Little Richie’s is your local neighborhood spot where you can get authentic New York style pizza and pasta. We are locally owned and have been serving Parker and Golden for over 20 years. Little Richie’s is the place where teens celebrate and families meet up. And at Little Richie’s, Tuesdays are for families. Kids eat free after 4 p.m. with the purchase of an adult entree. So let us handle dinner and the dishes. Monday might be Little Richie’s best-kept secret. Buy one pizza, get the second pizza half off. And at Little Richie’s Parker, we’re pouring half-priced bottles of wine. I wonder what time they open, Kathy.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, sounds good.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, today’s word of the day, let’s get on to that, is recalcitrant. Recalcitrant is an adjective spelled R-E-C-A-L-C-I-T-R-A-N-T. And it means stubbornly resistant to or defiant of authority or guidance. And our quote for the day is from Benjamin Franklin. He was one of our founding fathers, of course, born in 1706. Scientist, publisher, statesman, many, many things. And this came from Poor Richard’s Almanac, written in 1757. Proportion your charity to the strength of your estate, or God will proportion your estate to the weakness of your charity. And Kathy Russell, we were talking during the break off air about the conversation that we had before. Did you have any final thoughts on that?
SPEAKER 24 :
Well, yeah, I just want to reiterate with what Dave said, that this is such an important conversation. And I have a quote by Dr. Martin Luther King who wrote or he said, nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. And to me, that quotation captures what altruism really is. It’s mostly engaged in by people who really do have great intentions. Their intentions are so good. And we know that without thinking about the consequences of those good intentions, we know where that road goes. It goes straight to hell.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow, mentioning intentions makes me think of, let’s see, one of the other headlines I had here. This was from Yahoo, and I think they picked it up from Fortune magazine. The U.S. spent $30 billion to ditch textbooks for laptops and tablets. The result is the first generation less cognitively capable than their parents. Earlier this year, in written testimony before the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, neuroscientist Jared Cooney Horvath said that Gen Z is less cognitively capable than previous generations, despite its unprecedented access to technology. And it just reminds me, you know, this is another example of an unintended consequence. I think that it’s important that we read books. And it also reminds me of a study that I’d heard where because we have such ready access to Google and, you know, other search engines and, gosh, now AI, people tend to have the impression that they are way more intelligent, way more smart and aware than what they actually are.
SPEAKER 24 :
Hmm. Okay. You know, I have to say, I’m a true believer in technology. I think technology is great. And I think at some point it can be appropriately applied in schools. The problem is, is when you have teachers who don’t know how to use technology, when you have technology that just isn’t suited for the needs, then a problem arises. All kinds of problems ensue. But technology is a huge tool that is going to make people, it is making people smarter. I believe that if used properly, this opens up the world so that people can study the past so that they become smarter and think, make better predictions about the future. So I’m very pro-technology, just pro-appropriate technology.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think Joe has some opinions on this.
SPEAKER 22 :
Joe’s a little bit of a technologist, right? Yes, sir. I love technology. And, you know, funny enough, I was talking to my 16-year-old sister about this last night. It’s interesting because they gave them the technology and then they sent them home because COVID happened and nobody, they didn’t get any assistance, really. It was just, here, learn from this technology. I think the big key point is we need experts who can teach it alongside that technology.
SPEAKER 24 :
Amen.
SPEAKER 06 :
One of my new favorite sayings is that the measure of success for people who are big government advocates is the amount of money that you spend and not the outcomes.
SPEAKER 24 :
Exactly. That hits the nail on the head.
SPEAKER 06 :
And Joe, you raise a great point. You know, buying all this equipment and sending it home, especially during COVID, it feels to me like we tried to come up with a one-size-fits-all solution to this. And one size doesn’t fit all. One size fits one sometimes. And so there’s countless examples of students who are falling behind because they weren’t getting that personalized touch and the specialized instruction that they really needed.
SPEAKER 24 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 22 :
I have one more thing on that too. I think where we need to go to now is not necessarily these are the things you need to learn, but this is how you learn. Because like Kathy said, we have all this information on the internet readily available, but how do we take it in and actually learn it and not just read it and word dump it out again?
SPEAKER 24 :
Exactly, yeah. And how do we know what sources to trust? What’s our criteria for trust?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Well, happy birthday today to Paul Tibbetts, who was born in 1915. He was the U.S. Air Force Brigadier General and pilot of the Enola Gay. There’s a famous picture of him on the Enola Gay. I guess it was either preparing for or after the bombing of Hiroshima. In 1945, U.S. Marines raised the flag of the United States on top of Mount Suribachi in Iwo Jima. And we all surely know that famous photo and the Marine Corps War Memorial sculpture in D.C. is based on that. And in 1927, U.S. President Calvin Coolidge signs into law the Federal Radio Commission. That became superseded by the FCC in 1934. But we’re going to go to break here shortly, and let me tell you about Roger Mangan and his State Farm Insurance team. Roger wants you to feel safe and well-served, to understand your insurance coverage, and know that their office will respond to your call or text 24 hours a day. For that 24-hour peace of mind, call Roger Mangan at 303-795-8855. Like a good neighbor, Roger Mangan’s team is there.
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SPEAKER 05 :
Would you like to access a broad customer base that loves our country and wants to make life better for ourselves, our neighbors, our colleagues, our children, and our grandchildren? then you may be a perfect fit as a sponsor or partner of The Kim Monson Show. To learn more, reach out to Kim at kim at kimmonson.com. Kim would love to talk with you. Again, that’s kim at kimmonson.com.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to the Kim Monson Show. I’m Marshall Dawson. Sitting in studio with me is Kathy Russell. We’re filling in for Kim while she’s out. And Kim’s website is kimmonson.com. Sign up for Kim’s weekly email newsletter. You’ll get the first look at her upcoming guests as well as most recent essays. You can email her at kim at kimmonson.com. And thank you for continuing to support our independent voice and the exercise of our right to freedom of speech. Through all of Kim’s work with veterans, she’s honored to highlight the USMC Memorial Foundation and all the work that they’re doing to raise the money to remodel the official USMC Memorial, which is located right here in Golden, Colorado at 6th and Colfax. Paula Sarles is the president of the foundation. She’s a Marine veteran and Gold Star wife. Paula and her team are working diligently to make the remodel a reality. You can help by donating at usmcmemorialfoundation.org. That’s usmcmemorialfoundation.org. And I’ve been, frankly, looking forward to this next segment for quite a while now. Because on the line, we have our special guest, Michelle Steeb. Michelle is CEO of Free Up Foundation, freeupfoundation.com, and author of Answers Behind the Red Door, Battling the Homeless Epidemic. And recently, I ran into Michelle’s work. In the Daily Wire, an article called More Spending, More Suffering, the Failure of America’s Homelessness Policy. Good morning, Michelle. Welcome to the Kim Monson Show.
SPEAKER 20 :
Oh, I’m glad to be here and look forward to our discussion. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, likewise, as I say, I’ve been looking forward to this. I pulled down your book, Behind the Red Door, off Amazon this weekend and read through it. And right off the bat, let me just pay you a compliment, because this is one of the things that has frustrated me so much. And early in the book, you said that homelessness is on the brink of becoming an acceptable part of our culture now. And I don’t live in Denver, but when I come down here, and see the behaviors of the non-homeless people kind of interacting and avoiding the homeless people stepping over them or you know ducking off the sidewalk on their electric scooters or whatever it it just it breaks my heart not just for the homeless people who are being served very poorly but the rest of our population here in colorado who is being desensitized to it and sees this as Something that’s perfectly normal. I think they’re not seeing them as human.
SPEAKER 20 :
Yes, and you’re exactly right. We have tolerated this. Politicians have asked us to accept this as a new normal because they’re not willing to do the heavy lifting that this requires to make, you know, to create effective homeless policy. And now they’re asking us to accept this as normal. And what we tolerate, we endorse, basically. And one of the reasons I wrote that book was to Provide hope that you can turn individual lives around. I write about 11 women who came to us at the program I ran for 13 years at the bottom, at the depths of despair. who turned their lives around and as single mothers in California, many of them are now homeowners. Individual transformation is absolutely 1000% possible. We should never give up on that hope. It should be the goal. Of our homelessness system. But over the last 12 years, the goal has been housing them. And that’s been a massive, massive failure, which we can talk about this morning.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, absolutely. And Kathy Rosenthal is in studio with me. And we were we were talking just a moment ago about. Unintended consequences. I think maybe Kim had mentioned to you that I’d run for Congress a couple of different times. One of the things that so frustrated me and that I like to talk about was that we were putting policies in place which might sound like they have very good intentions and yet weren’t thought through very well. And rather than having good outcomes that actually help people, they turned out to be very harmful.
SPEAKER 20 :
That’s exactly right.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. I wanted to ask you, so, you know, I have to confess, I didn’t realize that we had a nationwide policy of housing first. Can you explain briefly what that is?
SPEAKER 20 :
Sure. So back in 2013, so Housing First was an approach created for, in New York City, for the very severely chronically homeless. That means, largely that means the street homeless population. And the idea was, and this was created in the 80s and 90s, the idea was that we would, because people who are living on the streets are often a danger to themselves and a danger to the general public, those around them. We needed to get them, you know, this was the thinking then, we needed to get them in housing as quickly as possible. In order to do that, we shouldn’t require anything of them. Don’t require them to be sober, don’t require them to, you know, do anything as a condition of that housing, meaning don’t require them to accept treatment, mental health treatment drug and alcohol treatment just let them be in the house and and the further thinking was once they got into that housing they would relax and you know start to regain some you know, sense of, wow, I’m pretty sick, I need some help. Well, that didn’t really ever play out, but nonetheless, the Obama administration, so the United States under the Bush administration, adopted uh housing first for the street homeless population for the severely chronically homeless population which at that point and and largely today represents 10 to 20 percent of the homeless population overall in 2013 the obama administration without any evidence It would work as a one size fits all approach. They adopted it as a one size fits all approach. So under that approach, we were to give all the nation’s homeless population a house. housing for life, actually, it’s called permanent housing, without any conditions, without any requirement of sobriety, without any requirement to work ever, without any requirement to engage in treatment. And literally, President Obama promised this would end homelessness in a decade. And a decade later, we’re actually 12 years later, homelessness is up almost 35% across the country. The chronic homeless population for, you know, the population for whom this housing first was developed, it’s up almost, in the last eight years, almost 60%. So it’s just been a massive, massive failure everywhere. And the Trump administration, thankfully, within six months of the president taking office, issued an executive order and said, this has been a massive failure. We cannot do this any longer. We need to prioritize mental health treatment, drug and alcohol treatment with the federal funding. And we need to, in many cases, require engagement in those services because people who are struggling with mental illness and addiction are also often struggling with a disease called anosognosia, which is a deficit of self-awareness, meaning they don’t know how sick they are. So for those people, and it’s approximately 80% of the population that are struggling with those diseases of the brain. For those people, we’re going to have to, in many cases, require engagement and services in order for them to begin to develop clarity of mind, to heal, and to get back on a path of realizing their full potential. So thankfully, the Trump administration has you know, within six months, again, said, we’re not gonna continue this. But unfortunately, the homeless advocacy organizations, and I say that in air quotes, are trying to block these reforms In court, they’re using the courts like they do in many other issue areas to block the Trump administration from instituting these reforms. And it’s just a shame because they’re seeing the same HUD data that I cited, right? Homelessness is up 35% despite the promise to end it in 10 years, despite a 300% increase, which I didn’t even mention in funding. under this approach, and they’re seeing the despair on the streets, but yet they are blocking any sort of reform to improving how we address homelessness.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yep, and let’s talk about that a little bit more after this break right now. These conversations are thanks in part by our great sponsors like Ben’s Plumbing, Heating, and Cooling.
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SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to The Kim Monson Show. My name is Marshall Dawson. I’m sitting in for Kim until she’s back, which I think is tomorrow, perhaps. Joe hasn’t corrected me, so I must be right. In studio with me is Kathy Russell. But Kim is definitely off today. We’ll see her back in the saddle soon. The website is KimMonson.com. Sign up for Kim’s weekly email newsletter. You’ll get the first look at all her upcoming guests as well as the most recent essays. You can email her at kim at kimmonson.com. And thank you for contributing to support our independent voice and the exercise of our right to freedom of speech. Your financial freedom is shaped by more than numbers. It’s shaped by planning and the realities of life. At Mint Financial Strategies, Jody Henze and her team help you assess your current reality while planning for your future. Additionally, Mint Financial Strategies helps you navigate through your emotions regarding the economy, your career, and the market, while encouraging you to elevate family dynamics that could influence your financial well-being. These insights help Mint Financial Strategies to design a strategy that fits your life. Take that step towards financial freedom. Call Mint Financial Strategies today at 303-285-3080. Again, that’s 303-285-3080. And we’re back with our special guest, Michelle Steepe, who is… an author of Answers Behind the Red Door, Battling the Homeless Epidemic, and also has a piece appearing at Daily Wire, More Spending, More Suffering, the Failure of America’s Homelessness Policy. And, Michelle, it’s great to have you with us. There was that word I was, in fact, I was going to ask you how to pronounce it, and I’m glad you did, and I already forgot it. It starts with an A. I want to say agonorcia, but that’s not it. Yeah.
SPEAKER 20 :
No, anosognosia.
SPEAKER 06 :
Anosognosia.
SPEAKER 20 :
Yes. You’re not the first, nor will you be the last person who’s asked me to repeat and spell that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I think that many of us having these conversations fall prey to human nature, which is that we often project kind of our own values and capabilities onto other people. But as you’ve talked about, the fact that many of these folks are incapable of you know, kind of assessing their own situation. And that really lends itself to some of the harm that the homeless or homeless first, that the housing first policies get us into. Yes.
SPEAKER 20 :
In fact, there’s only one long-term study that, you know, the homeless advocates have really avoided any sort of formal, you know, independent analysis of this, you know, the outcomes of this approach. But there was a study out of Boston that followed the chronically homeless, again, the, you know, mostly the street homeless population that were placed in housing in Without any conditions, right? So no conditions of sobriety for engagement and treatment for work. They followed them over 14 years. By year five, nearly half of the cohort was dead. By year seven, only 30% were left in that housing. It’s been a massive failure for the 10 to 20% of the homeless population for which it was designed. But it’s an equally disastrous approach for the overall homeless population. And there’s no accountability for the people who’ve been standing behind this and continue to stand behind this massive failure that has destroyed lives and families and communities.
SPEAKER 21 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 06 :
And so the actions of the Trump administration, the executive order and the new guidance from Housing and Urban Development, talk a little bit about what conditions they would place. They have a number of recommendations for continuum of care, both for local government and service agencies. What was the Trump administration trying to do that got shut down by this judge in December?
SPEAKER 20 :
Well, again, under Housing First, well, we didn’t even talk about this. So when President Obama rolled out Housing First as a one-size-fits-all approach in 2013, what we said was nearly all of the funding that we were spending on homelessness that used to go into housing subsidies and different forms of housing, shelters, transitional housing, permanent housing, would take all that money and all the money that went into treatment services because housing up until 2013 used to be coupled with treatment services that the federal government, HUD, funded. They would take all that money instead and they would put it into housing vouchers. Today, up around 90%, between 85 and 90% of all federal funding, it’s the largest source of homelessness funding, goes to housing vouchers. What that means is even if a person is a nonprofit that was receiving HUD funding, which I never did or didn’t do after they moved to this approach, but even if a nonprofit was wanting to provide services to a client in housing that wanted those services, again, treatment for addiction or mental illness, that there was no funding to do that. So nonprofits began just providing what we call housing only. It wasn’t intended to be housing only, but when the federal government defunds those services and there’s no easy way for nonprofits to provide them and get them funded, they don’t even mention them. And the clients, as we discussed, I call them clients, from the Boston study, they’re not requesting them. So it really became devolved into housing only. And like I said, it’s just been a massive failure. So what the Trump administration has said is we need to, as a system, reprioritize funding for mental health treatment for drug and alcohol treatment we need to require engagement in those services where needed and we need to clear these encampments because they are not safe for the homeless living in them they’re not a conducive to public health uh you know uh you know, to, you know, augmenting public health. And they’re certainly not safe for the people living around them because you’ve got people with these diseases that are going untreated, diseases of the brain that are going untreated. And when diseases of the brain or the heart or, you know, cancer, when those things go untreated, they get worse. So, It’s not safe for people that are stewing in disease to be living outside and risking overall public safety, including their own.
SPEAKER 06 :
I should have hit the cough button when I cleared my throat there. Thinking about this, I completely agree with the approach, and I already agreed with what I read in Behind the Red Door. However, I’m going to play a little bit of devil’s advocate here. There’s still going to be some people who say, yes, but we don’t want those demands put on us. I kind of call it tough love. You need for somebody to come along, put their arm around you, and say, hey, we’re going to get you the help that you need. And yet there’s still going to be some folks who resist to that. And so I think the people playing devil’s advocate would say, well, we still need housing first for those folks. I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that.
SPEAKER 20 :
Well, that’s like saying we need a drug for cancer patients that we’ve proven doesn’t work. It’s ridiculous, right? This hasn’t worked. There probably is a use. for the Housing First approach, maybe in the senior population, right? We were seeing a huge increase in homelessness amongst seniors. Depending on their age, they may not be able to work for the rest of their lives. And so Housing First might make sense for that population. We need to do some more research. But the bottom line is, Again, these people, think about in first grade, all these people that are struggling with homelessness, sitting around the room as first graders, Indian style, and the first grade teacher says, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Not one of them, not one of them, I would lay down on railroad tracks over this, would have said, I wanna be homeless, I wanna be struggling with addiction, I wanna be mentally ill. and I wanna be stewing in disease. We have to help them get back on a path to health and to, you know, rehabilitation. And that’s what this president and his administration is trying to do based on data, based on evidence of the failure of a housing only system. And we need to call every member of Congress and tell them that they need to support this. This is not a partisan issue. It should rally Republicans and Democrats to
SPEAKER 06 :
to change of a system that has so glaringly failed if you really believe that governments should be helping people then you should care about the results and not simply the amount of money that’s being spent or the statistics that you can put into a report um Michelle we just have a a few moments left um let’s figure out Actually, we have more than a few. Let me ask you this or have you comment on this. Reading in your book, The Story Behind the Back Door and the work that St. John’s did, those stories made me think that some of these women that came in there almost kind of have to surrender to the awareness or the thought that they are incapable of doing it on their own. That must be a big transformation for anyone to do. Is that a reasonable explanation? And talk about your success rates there.
SPEAKER 20 :
Yeah, so we used to call it stinking thinking. You know, you’re thinking, you’re thinking… at the point that you came to St. John’s is what, you know, in large part led you to homelessness. So we’ve, you know, if that’s thinking, we need to change, right? We need to change how you, we need to clear your, you know, help you gain clarity of mind, but you also need to, you know, change the assumptions, you know, the patterns that you have you know, built and learned over time. So it absolutely, like I said, can be done. There were thousands of examples I could have included in the book, but I included 11, which were all very, you know, unique. And you know, because human beings are unique, but very, you know, similar, uh, highlighting some of the things that it takes. I mean, it takes a willingness to, to change. It takes a the education about how to do that and how to create these new habits and patterns in your life. And it takes a lot, a lot of love. I mean, these are human beings. Many of them have been ostracized whether it be before homelessness or during homelessness or after, ostracized from family, from community. They have been told by whomever, family, community, that they don’t deserve anything more than what they have been existing in. And we need to change all of that. And love is a big part of it. And this is why… government can’t do this. I mean, government can provide the direction. They can provide some funding. I would argue they need to be less involved than they’ve been under the last 12 years. And I think the Trump administration will move in that direction too once they’re able to put these policies in place. But they can’t do the loving part. And that is such a big part. I We had graduation, you know, twice a year. And as our women graduated to self-sufficiency and they would give, you know, speeches to all the people in the audience that came to watch them graduate, almost to a T, they said, you know, I learned to love, you loved me, you, you know, St. John’s, you learned to, you loved me until I learned to love myself. and um and we just heard that across the board and we did we loved them we loved supporting them encouraging them but we were doing it um in a very accountable way they needed to be accountable you know when back to your question about uh people who think they still wanna live outdoors, which again, I think is such a fallacy because they just don’t realize how sick they are for the most part. We all have to follow civil law. We can’t allow the homeless to not do that as well. And that’s a big, you know, part of the problem over the last 12 years is we’ve completely given them a buy, you know, for following, you know, basic tenets of civil law and taking responsibility for themselves. I wrote about a story. I think this was 2016 in my book. Hey, Michelle, sorry.
SPEAKER 06 :
Can we hit a break? And when we come back, you can talk about that and also, you know, where people can find you. Well, these conversations are just so important. And we thank sponsors like John Bozen with Bozen Law.
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There’s so much noise coming at us. Sometimes it is difficult to make sense of it all. How can you sift through the clamor for your attention and get to the truth? The Kim Monson Show is here to help. Kim searches for truth and clarity by examining issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Tune in to The Kim Monson Show each weekday, 6 to 8 a.m., with encores 1 to 2 p.m. and 10 to 11 p.m. on KLZ 560 AM, KLZ 100.7 FM. The KLZ website, the KLZ app, and Alexa. Play KLZ. Shows can also be found at kimmonson.com, Spotify, and iTunes.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to the Kim Monson Show. I’m Marshall Dawson. Sitting in studio with me is Kathy Russell. Kim is taking the day off. Kim’s website is KimMonson.com. And while you’re there, you can sign up for the weekly email newsletter. You’ll get the first look at all the upcoming guests as well as the most recent essays. You can email Kim at Kim at KimMonson.com. And something that should be on your bucket list is a visit to the Center for American Values located on the beautiful River Walk in Pueblo. The Center for American Values was co-founded by Medal of Honor recipient Drew Dix and Emmy award-winning documentary maker Brad Padula. The Center is focused on honoring our Medal of Honor recipients and teaching and upholding the principles of America, honor, integrity, and patriotism. For more information, check out their website, AmericanValuesCenter.org. And with apologies, I had to hold Michelle over during the break because she was going to make a final point. And also, Michelle, I want to make sure that people know where they can find your work.
SPEAKER 20 :
Sure, yes. MichelleSteed.com is the website. I write a lot about this issue, a lot of op-eds. So those are all posted there. And then The organization I founded to reverse homelessness at a regional level is freeupfoundation.com. So freeupfoundation.com.
SPEAKER 06 :
And not everyone may know how to spell your name. So let’s make sure we get that out there if they’re going to be going to michellesteve.com. What is that?
SPEAKER 20 :
Thank you. It’s Michelle with one L, so M-I-C-H-E-L-E. And the last name S as in Sam, T as in Tom, double E, B as in boy. MichelleSteed.com.
SPEAKER 06 :
Great. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you, Michelle. Any final thoughts? Because we’re going to be jumping to – I don’t know if you’re familiar with our program here. It’s very similar for men. It’s called Step Denver. We’re going to be jumping to the CEO. So what are your final thoughts on policies –
SPEAKER 20 :
well uh we need to as the trump administration outlined in its executive order last july we we need to change policies it’s it’s it’s a matter of life and death that the death rate amongst the homeless population has gone up over 70 percent uh it’s just uh it’s very very critical for individuals who are struggling with homelessness but also for communities across the country that have been crushed under the weight. It’s possible. Don’t let your politicians tell you otherwise. Don’t let them make you tolerate continued failure. Call your members of Congress and let them know you stand and they need to stand behind the Trump reforms. And we all need to rally together. This is not a partisan issue. It is an issue of life and death for many across the country.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you, Michelle. MichelleSteved.com. And now it gives me great pleasure to bring up Megan Shea of Step Denver. And, you know, Megan, I didn’t realize Step Springs now as well. And full disclosure, I’m a donor, so this is really a treat for me to be able to talk to you.
SPEAKER 19 :
Well, it’s an honor for me to talk to you because none of this is possible without people like you stepping up in the ways that you do. And as an organization that’s not taking government funding, it is not an understatement to say that this would not exist without people like you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and the reason that I like Step Denver so much, and I think I was even donating back when it was Step 13, is the results. As donors, we should be very cognizant of the success rates of the charities that we give to, and Step Denver has enormous success compared to all the ones that do take government funding. So tell us a little bit about the program and why you were so successful. Sure.
SPEAKER 19 :
Sure. Well, first of all, I think you’ve really hit on an important point, which is we measure our success not based on what happens while men are in our program, but more importantly, what happens after they leave. And so a lot of what you see in the nonprofit space in general is are organizations that sort of tout these 80% success rates, and they’ll just throw out these percentages without any clarity on what success means, without defining success. And oftentimes, they’re measuring their success based on how many meals they serve, how many nights of shelter, things that are more service-driven and less outcome-driven. And so we really, as an organization that has the core principles of sobriety, work, accountability, and community, we really emphasize that accountability piece, not just for the people we’re serving to be accountable, but for us to be accountable to those who are funding us. And so I will just sort of lead with the end, which is we have outcomes that are more than double the national average. It’s very difficult, I have to say, to find any studies that actually measure outcomes. But I did find one out of Philadelphia that was a national study. And our outcomes in that scenario were actually more than three times But for men that are exiting our program, whether they leave successfully or unsuccessfully, we are following up with them. And so we do that at six different intervals in the first 12 months after they leave our program. We also do an 18-month follow-up. And we’re really in discussion with them, figuring out and collecting data, but through conversation, not a data collection survey, through continued peer coaching, how they’re doing in their life around sobriety, work, housing, family, finances, all of the things that are really critical for sustained self-sufficiency and a good quality of life. Last year, the year before, we had served 330 men. So last year, we were doing 12-month follow-ups with those men. We had an 85% contact rate. And so we were able to reach over 140 men in follow-up contacts of those who are eligible for contacts. And of those 140 men, 85% were still sober, 75% still had full-time tax-paying jobs, and 90% were still housed independently. And, you know, Michelle touched on that permanent supportive housing piece. When I say independently, I mean paying for their own housing. And so that’s how we measure income. Whether or not this works, that’s how we continue to make improvements. But I think it’s important to note also that we are an organization that specializes. So we’re specifically serving the population who needs this the most. If you look at any point in time count nationally, every city that’s doing a point in time count is going to have 65 to more than likely 75% of the people who are unsheltered are men. And as Michelle touched on, at least 80% are suffering the disease of addiction. And so for our mission, where we can focus and have the greatest impact is to focus on men who suffer the disease of addiction and get to the root cause of homelessness, which for most is addiction.
SPEAKER 06 :
I know a thing or two about being a man, but I was reading Michelle’s book when I realized that, and I didn’t know much about programs for women, but with many of her descriptions, it was evident that you almost have to specialize in a program for men or for women. Since you serve men, and because I mostly see men out on the streets, I think that’s The visual that many of us get of the homelessness problem, Step Denver has always resonated with me for the types of people that you serve in addition to the success rates. You know, one thing that comes to mind. Oh, go ahead. All right. There was a story about Bob Cote, I think, had at one point handed out business cards for people. So if a panhandler approaches you at a stoplight, you could give them this and say, if you need a free meal, you can go to Step 13, now Step Denver. And I think the story goes that practically nobody, maybe there was one person, one meal that you all gave away on that.
SPEAKER 19 :
And that’s because the number of services that are available for people who are currently living on the streets are immense. You can, at any point in time, get a meal from a number of places. You can get a tent and propane tank, and people are handing out all of these things to make it much easier to live on the streets and to remain in that state of misery and despair. And there’s plenty of shelter. I mean, there’s not a lack of services. What we are lacking are the motivating drivers that lead someone towards real help, not just a mandate, but real transformational change. And unfortunately, those come in the form of consequences. Consequences save lives. I can tell you that the majority of the men in our program.
SPEAKER 06 :
Michelle, we are sadly out of time. Are we out of time? Yeah, please get the website real quick. I hope we can do this again.
SPEAKER 19 :
Me too. Me too. Thank you for having me. It’s stepdenver.org. And then we also now, as you mentioned, have a STEP program in Colorado Springs. It’s the first replication of this 42-year model that’s now proven to be effective, and we’re hoping to bring it to other communities. So stepdenver.org or stepsprings.org if you’re in the Colorado Springs region.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you. Love you guys. I can’t do all of Kim’s read here, but you know the routine. It starts with be grateful and be like Superman. Folks, you are not alone. Let’s make sure we God bless you and God bless the United States of America.
SPEAKER 10 :
To the mountains climbing, twisting, turning further from my home. Young like a new moon rising, fierce to the rain enlightening. I don’t want no one to cry, but tell them if I don’t.
SPEAKER 01 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
