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In this heartwarming episode, Kim Munson and her guest, Brad Beck, dive into nostalgic childhood memories, exploring the essence of freedom versus force in everyday life. Brad shares his evocative recollections of a simpler time, weaving tales of playing with dirt clods and sneaking into theme parks. These narratives not only offer a glimpse into his past but also highlight the importance of storytelling in preserving family histories and traditions, especially during Thanksgiving. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own past experiences, promoting a sense of gratitude and demonstrating how formative these moments can be.
SPEAKER 20 :
It’s the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
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The socialization of transportation, education, energy, housing, and water. What it means is that government controls it through rules and regulations.
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The latest in politics and world affairs.
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Under the guise of bipartisanship and nonpartisanship, it’s actually tapping down the truth.
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Today’s current opinions and ideas.
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On an equal field in the battle of ideas, mistruths and misconceptions is getting us into a world of hurt.
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Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
SPEAKER 06 :
And welcome to The Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You each are treasured, you’re valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. I get to work with a great team. That’s producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, Amanda, and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. And as you know, we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. We are pre-recording these shows for Thanksgiving week with great guests and special topics. And so pleased to have in studio with me, and that is my friend Brad Beck. He is a co-founder of Liberty Toastmasters, a frequent guest host on the show, a frequent guest on the show, an author at The Kim Munson Show. Great to have you here. Well, thank you, Kim.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I’m familiar with those words that you opened the show with. I think you are.
SPEAKER 06 :
You’ve said it before.
SPEAKER 04 :
I have. And, you know, it’s part of my pattern when I get in here.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. And I’m serious. We want to be looking and thinking about lofty things. That’s what our founders did. And so I want to encourage people to do that on a daily basis. Let’s talk about this piece that you’ve written, which is just a lovely piece of I remember when stories to pass along. And as families are getting together for Thanksgiving and there is so much to be grateful for. We have so many things we’re concerned about, but the blessings abound. So where do you want to start with this?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you know, I just thought that when you started to mention, you know, come in and pre-record something for Thanksgiving, why not talk about those stories of our past? And we don’t do it enough anymore. You know, we used to sit around after Thanksgiving and unloosen the belt a little bit and… try to rest and be with family. But, you know, the thing that we miss is handing down those stories of growing up. And with so much strife and just everything that’s happening today, I think we need to reflect a little bit on all those great escapades we had as kids and share that with our families. And, you know, some of them are hysterical. Some of them are serious. Some of them are teaching moments. But it’s like playing the game topper. You know, you’ll tell a story about something that happened and then somebody will say, oh, that’s like the time I remember when. And next thing you know, you have a great conversation going on. And I started to think about growing up in Southern California where I did. It was called Sepulveda at the time. I grew up in Van Nuys and then Sepulveda. Now it’s called North Hills, the area that I grew up in. And it was just it was. like leave it to beaver incarnate. I mean, it was just a happy time. I don’t remember any strife. We had eight houses on this dead end street. It was a newer neighborhood and we had everything that you could imagine. I mean, we had a Japanese family. We had two Jewish families. We had a Baptist family and evangelical and two Catholics. And I mean, you know, the, we all got along. It was amazing. And when we, Came home from school. My brother and I would go outside after our homework was done and find something to do. We’d play football or baseball or, you know, we got tired of that. We would play Blyman’s Bluff. Somebody’s garage would be the designated place. And we would, you know, it’s kind of tag in the dark with somebody blindfolded or dog pile or hide and go seek. And it was just an innocent time. Nobody had electronics. The only electronics we had was a transistor radio. to listen to the ball game or our latest AM top 30 songs. And we had a great time. And every once in a while, we’d get bored with that and we’d hop over the fence into this big field that was right next door to our neighborhood. And we would play and have a great time and build forts, as boys do, and take these things that today, I don’t know if kids know what they are, but dirt clods. Oh, my gosh.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’d forgotten about dirt clods. Oh, my.
SPEAKER 04 :
That was so much fun. I think we should market them.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think we should come up with them and market them.
SPEAKER 04 :
Like a pet dirt clodder. Yeah, exactly. And we would build these these little forts out of dirt clods. And you always wanted to have a pile of dirt clods first and then build your fort because you would always hear the opposition going dirt clod fight. And if you weren’t ready, you were always grabbing for a dirt clod. You usually got clobbered. Yeah. And usually we were far enough away, you didn’t really hurt each other. But every once in a while, a wall would come down after a dirt clot hit it. And whoever was behind it, they started to get up and run away. And you got one beamed in the head or, you know, and then you’d go home because you were bleeding. And, Mom, where’s the Bactine and the Band-Aids? Oh, Bactine.
SPEAKER 06 :
Again, that was a staple at our house, too.
SPEAKER 04 :
And that stinging was a badge of honor. Yeah. And then you go back out and play. Yeah. You know, most of the time it wasn’t a serious issue. But we would play out in the field and just use our imaginations. And we did everything, like cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians and monsters and, you know.
SPEAKER 06 :
Army, I saw that. Army. My cousins, I had two boy cousins that I just adored, and they played Army all the time.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. And you just did it. And it wasn’t politically correct. It was just fun. We used our imaginations, and we delved into those comic book heroes that we loved, or somebody would grab a National Geographic and see some villager from some far-off place. I know where you’re going to go. That was hot, you know, but didn’t feel it was necessary to wear clothing above the waist. And that was, you know, my goodness, you know, somebody has that. It was on the cover. You know, you just grew up very innocently and we had so much fun. And then one day. One of the kids said, hey, my dad has a shovel. Why don’t we dig a trench and really have kind of a battle line like they did in World War I, the trenches. So one guy got a shovel and another guy got a shovel and we started digging these trenches. And then somebody went over and said, hey, my dad’s got some plywood over here and a big box from a washing machine or something and then some planks. And we bring those over and then cover it with dirt. And next thing you know, it was dark in there in those tunnels. But it was a great place just to hang out. So we would go to somebody’s house and take a votive candle or a Sabbath candle and dig little niches into the side and light the candles. And so we had light in there and we just hung out and, you know, swap lies and told stories and just had a ball. Now, as a mother, though, I have to ask, I’m a little concerned about the walls falling in on you guys. You know, we were little, so it wasn’t that tall, maybe, I don’t know, three, maybe four feet max. But we would add on, and we were like humanoid ants. I mean, we dug all over this field. It was just nuts. And we would take the tumbleweeds and cover the entrance, and nobody knew where it was. And, you know, we’d go out and play every once in a while and then come back and, you know, something would crumble.
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Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
You have to do repairs. Repairs and fix it up. And we’d have other kids from the neighborhood down the street come over and have dirt cloud fights and we would disappear. And we had our ammunition ready.
SPEAKER 08 :
So you invite them over.
SPEAKER 04 :
And then clobber them, literally. Yeah. I mean, it was just a lot of innocent fun. And I remember one time when I was home. It was after, you know, I was older now. I was in high school. And I’m looking out the kitchen window into the field in my mom’s house, my mom and dad, where we lived. And there’s a tractor there. He’s out there mowing down all the weeds. And all of a sudden, he disappeared. I’m like, holy cow, where did he go? All I could see was the top of the man’s head. Oh, my gosh. And then it dawned on me, oh, my goodness, we never filled in those holes, those trenches. And I don’t know how he got out of there, but the next day, that tractor was gone and all the trenches were filled in. Oh, my gosh. And it reminded me of all that fun, but also those memories being covered over. Yeah. And then when you’re sitting around and you’re talking with family and friends and telling them what you did, they come back up. Yeah. And they’re like friendly old ghosts that you revisit. Yeah. It was just a very innocent time. And, you know, you built tree houses if you had trees in your neighborhood. Southern California, you have a lot of trees unless you’re by the foothills. But, you know, we had open fields and we would just plant them, you know, and have a good time.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, I remember. So I grew up in western Kansas, love my little town. And there was a group of girls that we hung around and. Every family had two-seated bicycles. For some reason, that was the thing. So we had all these Schwinn two-seated bicycles. So we would drive around, ride around town on these two-seated bicycles. And I remember that we would trade off who was in the front and who was in the back. And I was on the front one time, forgetting that I was on the front. I was thinking I was on the back. Because on the back, you take your hands off. And I took… My hands off the handlebars. And, of course, we fell over. And my friend’s like, Kim. But one of the things that we did for the county fair, they always had a big parade. And my hometown has a whole brick main street. Folklore is that an old Indian was hired to come in and lay all those bricks. And they’ve lasted all these years. They’ve done some repairs. But it’s pretty cool. But anyway, great town. a great parade down Main Street, and so what we decided to do, there were eight of us, is we went to, and we thought it was a little gross and morbid, but we went over to the local mortuary and asked them for the boxes that the coffins come in, because that would fit over our two-seated bicycles, and then we decorated them and rode in the parade in one first place. Oh my goodness, that’s awesome.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you know, remember, everybody had a Schwinn Stingray, and the only difference was what color it was and what kind of seat. Yeah. Was it a single seat or was it a banana seat? Right. And some had a big bar on the back. Right. And we rode our bikes everywhere. And, you know, my mom used to say, you know, get out of the house and go play outside. Don’t get in trouble and come home before the streetlights come on. I mean, those were the commands, right? Mm-hmm. And we would drive our bikes down to the local convenience liquor store, we called it. And we would go get a Mad Magazine and, you know, big pieces of bazooka bubble gum when we weren’t buying baseball cards because that candy was hard. And we’d blow bubbles and we’d go to the gas station across the street and get STP stickers. We didn’t know what they were. They just look cool when you put them on your peachy folder. And my wife asked me, what the heck’s a peachy folder? What is it? Those are just kind of manila-colored folders that you put your schoolwork in. And it had little sports drawings, like a football player, an ice skater, a baseball player. And everybody had peachy folders. And when my wife said, I’ve never heard of that before, I said, well, here, let me look. I looked it up and shouldered the picture. She goes, we never had those.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’m going to have to look that up, too, Brad Beck. So this is fascinating. And we’re pre-recording these shows for the week of Thanksgiving. And we have so much to be grateful for. But I did want to mention Hooters Restaurants. Grateful for their sponsorship of both the Kim Munson Show and America’s Veterans Stories and how I got to know them. It’s one of those really important stories about freedom and free markets and capitalism. And then those pesky PBIs, those politicians and bureaucrats and interested parties that think they know how we should live our lives. And so really do appreciate Hooters restaurants. And while the family’s in, on Wednesdays, they have a great special for to-go or dine-in. You buy 20 wings, you get an additional 10 for free. And locations are Westminster, Aurora. and and loveland so be sure and check that out and also the roger mangan state farm insurance team has been a great sponsor of the show for many years as well roger’s been in business for over 50 years taking care of his family and his clients and giving back to the community and so give them a call for a complimentary appointment you might be able to save some money you don’t know unless you give them a call that number is 303-795-8855 like a good neighbor the roger mangan team is there
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SPEAKER 06 :
And welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. And are you ready for financial freedom? Call our friends at Mint Financial Strategies. As an independent firm and an accredited investment fiduciary, they always put your interests first. Mint means more than money. It stands for meaningful relationship, information sharing, a network of smart strategies, and a thoughtful advisor who puts you in control. No cookie cutter plans. Everything is tailored to you. So call Mint Financial Strategies today. That number is 303-285-3080. 303-285-3080. And happy Thanksgiving week to you. We are doing something so special. We are pre-recording shows for this week and very special themes and guests. And I’m pleased to have in studio with me Brad Beck. He’s a co-founder of Liberty Toastmasters, a frequent guest host on the show, a frequent guest of the show, and an author. at the Kim Munson Show, and we’re talking about, I remember when, stories to pass along. And as I was reading this, and you were talking about dirt clods, because that was a favorite toy in my house as well when I grew up. But you said you thought maybe you should have named your group. And you’re reminding me of The Sandlot. The Sandlot was, again, Southern California. It was one of my most favorite movies ever. But you have a new name for your group, huh?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I always thought it should be called the Dirt Clock Club because that’s what we played with. And, you know, we had pretend guns. We’d have a stick, but you couldn’t throw a stick. I guess you could throw a stick, but, you know, if it’s pretending to be your… Your rifle, you know, you’re not going to throw that. So dirt clods were the next best thing. And none of us really had any money. It was a middle class neighborhood. We lived about two blocks from Busch Gardens. So and Van Nuys was where the big Budweiser brewery was. And it was expansive. And they turned part of it into a theme park called Busch Gardens and a free admission area. In the beginning, and you pay for parking and so forth. But our neighborhood got inundated because people didn’t want to pay when they started charging. So we’d have people coming over and parking all over. But we would, as I will say retribution, we would sneak into Busch Gardens when we were kids. And whether it was going over a fence or under a fence or a lot of times we take the Budweiser tour. They had a tram and then you could get off on the inside of the building and then walk down this walkway. And we would slide down the barriers and find a door. And we were in the park. I mean, we we would get in and then they’d find out and then they kick us out. And then we were just like, you know, trouble for security. I mean, like the southern border.
SPEAKER 1 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
We were like that. We knew a way to get in, and we would sneak our friends in. The funny thing was that we would, there was all these beer pavilions, and I think you could have, if you were a guest there, you could have two glasses of Bud or Bud Light or whatever. And we would say, hey, we’re thirsty. Can we get a clean cup for water? And they’d give us a little cup. And we’re kids now. We’re, you know, 10, 11, 12. And we get this clean cup, but there would be all these half little leftover cups of 10-ounce beer. And we would go, oh, there’s one over there on the table. And we’d pour it into that clean cup. And we weren’t thinking hygiene. We were thinking free beer. And, you know, we’re little kids. We were drinking beer and, you know, just acting crazy. And we would see some great concerts. They’d bring in at one point when they put the new edition onto the park. David Clayton Thomas from Blood, Sweat and Tears or Lou Rawls. And you get to hear some great old soul music. And my buddies and I, oftentimes we would see the shack where the characters were, the Budweiser characters. They have these birds costumes and they would get into one. I got into one once and we walk around the park and. You know, clunk people in the head with the wings. And when those were locked up, we would be in the bushes by the waterfalls and shake the bushes really hard and make, you know, I won’t even do it now, but like bird sounds, big noises like monsters or whatever. And the people in the boats are like, what’s that? You know, and they had no idea.
SPEAKER 06 :
We were just renegades. Speaking of bushes, now, again, a little town in western Kansas, and one of the things that we would do is drag Maine. We’d go up and down Maine and wave at everybody, honk. That’s what we did. And so I remember I was on a date with basically a family friend, and we’d made the loop and we turned around and we were coming back to the street that would get us back onto Main Street. And he said, is that a purse in the middle of the street? I said, well, it does look like a purse. So he pulled over, got out, and he reached down to pick it up to see whose it was, and it moved.
SPEAKER 1 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
Somebody had a string to it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Somebody had a string to it in the bushes, and we just cracked up.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, that is funny. We talk about dates. There was a young lady who I had a crush on, and I invited her to go to the theme park, to Busch Gardens, and I thought, well, this will impress her, right? Well, her mom said the only way she could go is if her sister went. Okay, great. So I invited my little brother. Problem fixed. The only thing is I only saved up enough money for the entrance fee for two, not for four. So I decided, hey, Randy, you and I are going to go. We’re going to sneak the girls in under the fence. Boy, that’s impressive. Oh, that was really impressive. You know, I’m in my nice Hawaiian shirt, my corduroy pants, my wallabies. My puka shells, I think I put on some of my dad’s old spice. All right. So I was styling. And we snuck them in. And this is funny because I remember it because they had a little tag on it. The girls were wearing Shemenda fur pants. My wife said, what is that? And I said, it was just a brand. But I remember them having dirt on the backside because we snuck into the park.
SPEAKER 06 :
And you delivered her home that evening with her?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I did. I said, you’ve got dirt on your back because I wasn’t going to rub it off. And we got in there. We had a ball. Oh, did you? So it was a fun day. It was a fun time. And we would have things like that going on all the time. Cousins would come into town and we’d sneak them in and just, you know, ride all the rides and hang out with our buddies.
SPEAKER 06 :
So that’s why they invented you have to have a ticket to go on a ride now, huh? Right.
SPEAKER 04 :
Exactly. I remember there was a one part of the theme park that was kind of a wider area where the river was. And the boats used to come around there. And UCLA and SC used to have crew races. And for whatever reason, I was in the front of this photograph they took. And my picture was in the paper, the local paper. It was kind of cool. I still have that piece of newsprint. But we just would have fun and enjoy that facility there. And then they ended up tearing it down and expanding the brewery. And again, it was like the trenches. They took it away, and it’s just all memories now. But I still have a ticket that says Busch Gardens, and I think I have a pamphlet somewhere around in the house. But they’re all great memories to share with people. And I don’t think we do that enough to, one, tell the stories, but two, it doesn’t have to be a huge saga. It doesn’t have to be something that’s really important. Although I did, I think, learn some lessons. One is, you know, fill in your trenches after you’re done digging your hole.
SPEAKER 06 :
I don’t think kids would ever think about doing that.
SPEAKER 04 :
What a great adventure, though. Oh, it was fun. We would get on our Schwinn’s and ride all over the San Fernando Valley. I remember we would go up to the TGNY, which is a little closer, and the variety stores back in the day. You had Ben Franklin’s or whatever they’re called now. We called them the Dime Store. Dime Store. Five and Dime. And looking at all the new toys that were in these little glass dividers. And most of them came from Japan back then. Do you remember that? Yeah, they had Stapped on the bottom. Or they were going from metal to rubber. Right. At the time. But there was just this whole section of toys. And for me, it was dreamland. Yeah. Because I didn’t have money to buy a lot of stuff. And we would maybe recycle bottles or work for somebody for a weekend and earn some money. But we really didn’t have money. You know, there weren’t jobs out there. I don’t remember until I got into high school working at the local pizza joint washing dishes. You know, that was that was work scrubbing those pots and pans. But it was just a wonderful time. And I think people need to tell those stories about their childhood because there is so much going on these days and getting back to just having conversations with family and friends. So grandparents, were your grandparents nearby or tell me about that. My mom’s parents were not too far away and they were in Van Nuys. We used to go over there. My grandfather had gotten remarried and that was a fun place to go because my grandmother made the best brownies and believe it or not, chopped liver. I loved chopped liver the way she made it. And we’d just hang out in the backyard and play. My other grandfather lived down in Palm Springs. And he lived in a trailer park. And that was a big thing, these trailer parks for retired people. But he lived not too far from the Indian Canyon, they called it. And we used to go explore out in the desert. And it was a beautiful oasis with a river, little i would call it a river it was a creek and palm trees and it was just a wonderful little area and i loved going to palm springs and just going to the pool and swimming all day and so they you know that was about an hour and a half away when we went down there but it was just a fun time southern california back in the 60s and 70s was really cool it wasn’t overbuilt there were canyons places you could go hiking little streams and creeks and the film lots you know were still there so you could Yeah, that’s one of the things you said you would go over to Universal Studios. Yeah, we would ride our bikes over to Universal, which was about 12 miles away from my house. And going there was no problem because you could go south and then you could go east and along Ventura Boulevard and you’d run into it coming home after a full day of fooling around at the park. I didn’t know it the first time we went that that end of the valley was at a diagonal. So we would get on Lancashire and keep driving, riding our bikes. And we’re like, where are we? Oh, no. We got so lost. Well, nobody had cell phones. So we finally found a pay phone and had it, you know, quarter. Hey, mom, where are we? Let me get your dad. And he would give me directions and we would get home, you know. They didn’t come get you.
SPEAKER 01 :
No, no.
SPEAKER 04 :
You’re on your own. You’re riding your bike. Yeah. We would ride our bikes. And it was, you just didn’t have the problems and the crime and the homelessness and, you know, the things that happen. Yeah, you couldn’t do that now. You couldn’t do it now. And we’d ride our bikes to the beach. And, you know, that was over Malibu Canyon or Canaan Road. And it was just a fun time. We had a lot of energy. We didn’t have, like I mentioned, we didn’t have money per se. We were middle class. The whole neighborhood was. And oftentimes I’d walk to school or ride my bike to school. Didn’t have a car until my senior year. and it was just a different time. And people today, I don’t think, realize how lucky they have it that we have all these conveniences. And even back then, it was great. It wasn’t a long time ago, but those who have gone through it, I was born in 59, so I’m just in there, barely into the baby boomers. But it was a fun time. It was an innocent time. And there was turmoil all around us. I mean, I remember watching a little black-and-white TV Yeah, the Kennedy assassination and Martin Luther King and Vietnam War. And, you know, that was all, you know, something that was tragic in a lot of ways. It seemed far away. It didn’t seem real. It was on TV and it was black and white. Very different. I remember my mom dropping us off at the movie theater. And, you know, there used to be a movie theater not too far from where we lived. And, you know, we’d see two or three movies for a buck, buck and a half. And then she’d come and pick us up. it’s just you could leave your kids you could go drop them off at the mall and pick them up in a couple hours or you ride your bike to the mall and it was a more innocent time but that’s that’s good to share with people because it can be that again i think if people would one take care of themselves first take care of their family take care of their communities You know, in my little town where I live, I’m in the Optimist Club. We’re known as Friend of Youth. And I love it because we can take care of those that are around us. Right now we’re getting ready to do our Operation Santa, which is there are local businesses and banks that will have a giving tree and people can come in. Take an age and name and buy things that are necessary for them. Believe it or not, in our community, there’s a lot of little trailer parks and, you know, people that aren’t as well off. And so it’s a great way to reinvest in the community. I think if more communities did that through their Rotary Optimist, Kiwanis, whatever the organization.
SPEAKER 06 :
Not a government program.
SPEAKER 04 :
Exactly. And you see the fruits of your kindness. Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
So the key is to lower taxes, rules, regulations, get government at the local, the county, the state, and the national level back in its proper role. And you and I can’t even do one show without mentioning that. Okay, we’re going to go to break. We’re talking with Brad Beck about, I remember when, stories to pass along. But I did… Well, when we come back, we’ll talk a little bit about the USMC Memorial Foundation. We have these discussions because of our sponsors. And for everything residential real estate, reach out to Karen Levine.
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SPEAKER 02 :
All Kim’s sponsors are in inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Monson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmonson.com. That’s kimmonson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 06 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is kimmunson.com. And while you’re there, sign up for our weekly email newsletter that goes out on Sundays that highlights our upcoming guests and our most recent essays. We are pre-recording the shows for this week in Thanksgiving. We wish all of you just a blessed week. And we have So much to be grateful for here in the United States of America. And pleased to have in studio with me my friend, and that is Brad Beck. He is co-founder of Liberty Toastmasters, a frequent guest host on the show, frequent guest on the show, and an author. We’re talking about the piece that we should have published it by now. I remember when stories to pass along. But I wanted to mention the USMC Memorial Foundation. Thank you so much. usmcmemorialfoundation.org but brad beck one of the things that when we’re talking about i remember when as i’ve done so many of these uh america’s veteran stories shows with uh vietnam veterans who were treated terribly when they returned back uh from vietnam and they were just doing what they thought well i mean they were drafted but they still went they they uh We’re doing their duty. And I’m thinking about all of us back here riding our bikes and not realizing what was going on over in Vietnam all those years ago. And I just want to say thank you to them because it was a magical time if you were in America. It wasn’t such a magical time if you were a U.S. soldier over in Vietnam.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s right. It was. My grandfather was in World War I. He was a kid. In fact, the first time he went to Canada because he couldn’t get into the U.S. military, he was too young. He was like 14, 15. Now, had he immigrated? Yeah, they came over from what was Russia, Ukraine, Russia area. Came over, lived in the Minneapolis area. and he wanted to either run away to the circus or join the military because at that point we were just starting to get into World War I. And he went up to Canada and joined the Canadian Expeditionary Forces. And when they found out how old he was, he looked older. He was a fairly tall kid, even though I’m a runt, but he was a little taller. And they found out how tall he was or how old he was, and they sent him back to the States. He got decommissioned, and then he told my great-grandmother, either I’m I’m going to do one or the other. Go find a circus or get this wanderlust. I’m going to go be an army guy. Imagine that. Imagine. And I think he was 15 and a half when my great grandmother signed the papers. Unbelievable. And he got shipped to Europe. And he was in the… Well, yeah, the artillery. And he was part of the gun that the 11th day, 11th month, 11th day, 11th hour. And I have two of his medals still. And when I was in Kansas City going to the World War I Museum, I found those same medals. So I got them listed there in a nice little shadow box. But he never wanted to talk about it because he said war is hell. War is. And he saw some stuff that he just he could never talk about. But he got gassed. And his whole life, he had lung problems. He had to live in the desert. So this is the one that lived in Palm? Palm Springs, yeah. And they moved to Arizona at first. And here’s my dad and his brother, his older brother, actually. And they were in Knickerbockers in their little… Lid skin hats, you know, and then the Cowboys and Indians were in the 40s, early 40s in Levi’s and T-shirts. And they got the heck beat out of them the next day. My grandfather bought them Levi’s and T-shirts. They fit in. But then they moved back to Minneapolis and then back to Southern California and lived there ever since. So that’s where my mom and dad met. But I remember big gatherings of family on both sides. And my uncle and my grandfather would be sitting there in the big easy chairs in my mom’s living room talking in Yiddish. And I’d be sitting there next to them. And at some point they would argue about where the family came from. And, you know, I was just a little kid listening to this stuff. And I just found it fascinating. And even when we went to a friend’s house for different holidays or different occasions, I always liked sitting at the adult table and listening to the stories. You know, you were silent. You didn’t say anything. Right. Unless it was like, what is that? You know, you ask your parents afterwards. Oftentimes you get, never mind. Right.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right, right. I remember, so I’m one of 24 grandchildren on my paternal side, and almost everybody lived there. One, my dad’s younger sister, had moved to Missouri. But otherwise, everybody was around, and we… It was primarily girls. And every one of, let me think here, every one of the, there were four boys in the family and two girls. My dad was one of four boys. And each of the boys had one son. And then the cousins in Missouri, there was four sons to my aunt and then two sons to my other aunt. So we would divvy the boys up because, and then we would play. Did you ever play Annie, Annie over? No, what was that? Okay, so it’s kids and a ball. And my grandparents, you could run around their house. There was no fence. And so you would throw the ball over the house, and you would say, Annie, Annie, over. And if the other side caught it, now you wouldn’t know, but if they caught it without it bouncing… then they could split up and they would come around and whoever had the ball could tag people. And if you got tagged, then you were then on their side. So that’s why it was good to have one of the boys on your side. So we divvied them up and we played that for hours. Kids and a ball in a house.
SPEAKER 04 :
Where’s the rules for that? You know, it was all in your imagination. It was. There’s no rule book. There was kids have imagination and they come up with fabulous things to play and do. And that’s the marvelous thing about freedom.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and I remember the contortions that as you figured out who had the ball coming after you, you know, the back break to try to get away from him and run. We played that for hours and lots of times Thanksgiving because there were years that it snowed. But there were also years that it was like this weather that we’re having right now.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, yeah, that’s great times. And you know what? I think people need to get out and be with their family at places during the holidays and not just go to an amusement park, but go to somebody’s house and sit around and tell the stories or gather with their friends and just, hey, this is what I lived through, just like you’re telling me. I’ve never heard that game before, but it’s a great story.
SPEAKER 06 :
It is. Another story, because you mentioned Indians. Yeah. And so we had a… My dad rented this… They owned some farmland, and they rented some. And I guess they owned this, but they purchased it from a guy named Pat Deans. So we had names for all of the different pieces of farmland, and that was Pat Deans. And Pat Deans was actually… I don’t know exactly. I think it was a former dump. And then also, there was Indian stuff there. We would go out and dig, and we would find arrowheads. Oh, sure. Yeah. Unbelievable.
SPEAKER 04 :
Where my wife Kathy’s from in Middle Tennessee, her family grew up off the… I think it was Buffalo and Duck River. And they had a log cabin house up there. And when Kathy was a little girl, she used to sit in the river and a chair dangling her feet in the river by the spring and read books. And they would find arrowheads and all kinds of Native American stuff all around that area because it was a meeting ground even during the war. pre-civil war days there the family has the original papers the homesteading of this old log cabin which unfortunately is not there tornado came in and and wiped it out but uh kathy and i went back there a couple years ago our cousin bought the property next to it and they were digging up the utility lines and in those trenches i found all kinds in the trash midden area little pieces of brick and wood and all kinds of little things no native american things but Just pieces of pottery and glassware that, you know, were discarded from her family that are a couple hundred years old. And we have that in a little shadow box just to remember, you know, a little bit of the past. And every family has those little pieces or probably has it in a box somewhere. And it’s just fun to bring them out and talk about them and imagine what life was like or if somebody doesn’t have it written down to write it down now so you can pass it on to those who come after you. I often wonder what my grandparents sat around and my great grandparents. I have some photos, but I don’t know what they were like because nobody wrote it down. And that’s the shame. We’re losing some of that history. And I think people are more aware of it today, but it’s hard to find the time just to write it. So when I had this opportunity to write some of these stories down, it just encouraged me to do more. I could go on and on and on and on about different stories, but we all have them and we should share them with our family.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I think we should be thinking about them as we are getting together to share with children and grandchildren. Recently, my cousins on my dad’s side had a reunion back in western Kansas. And I was one of the younger grandchildren because my dad was number five out of six. And so I ended up sitting next to one of my cousins, one of the older cousins, who they lived just down the street from my grandparents. And my grandmother… Was never really warm to me. But by that time, she had 20-some grandkids. And so I didn’t really know her that well. But as I’ve looked at stories, I’ve had cousins that have said, you’re like her. And I have a picture of her with her sister in front of an old sod house. Oh, wow. in western kansas and so i said to my cousin i said i wish i would have known her i i remember things she ran her house was spotless she made these great spice cookies at christmas and thanksgiving and you would go in before the we all got there and There would be tables of these spice cookies, and they were cut-out cookies. Do you know how much work that is to do that? And some would have sugar on them, some would have frosting, and some wouldn’t. And it’s a family recipe that all of us cousins have, but we don’t share with anybody. And the story is, again, a story was that, let’s see, her grandmother… I know her mother, I know her grandmother worked for a royal family in Germany. And she was one of the servants. And she would make these cookies over there in Germany. And then I guess she gave the recipe to my great-grandmother who immigrated to America. The story is that she was basically an indentured servant for a number of years for a family in Omaha. that had paid for her passage over, so she helped with things around the house. And then that recipe went to Western Kansas, and my grandmother made those cookies every Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow. These are just great stories. And, you know, in Toastmasters, storytelling is so important to get an audience to be engaged. And I love, especially with my granddaughters when they were little, they would say some of the most incredible things. It’s like, I need a pen and paper right now.
SPEAKER 01 :
I’ve got to write it down.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, I know. But they illustrated a point and an idea that you could share with people. And that’s what communication is all about. It’s sharing those stories, those experiences, connecting at the heart to get to the head. I think more people need to do that so we can have conversations rather than arguments and debates and arguments. I mean, debates are good, but somebody will say, well, that’s not my truth. Okay, let’s go back. There’s truth, and then there’s not. So that’s the challenge we have today, because people aren’t telling the stories in a way that engage with the audience or the people like a good novel. Mm-hmm. Ayn Rand wrote some incredible books and novels. I mean, I can go on and on with different people that I’ve read over time. And it engages you. And it makes you think about, wow, what was life like then? Or what is the point that somebody’s trying to get to you? And oftentimes, if it hits you emotionally, they’ve got you. And getting to the emotions of so many of these stories, the cookie story. I mean, I’m salivating now. I want one of those darn cookies. Yeah. I will make you some. I will make you some.
SPEAKER 06 :
We’re talking with Brad Beck about I Remember When, stories to pass along. And I really think all of you think about these stories and pass them on to children and grandchildren. And while you’re sitting around the tables, talk about them. It’s so important. And we get to do this because of all of our sponsors. And I’m so grateful for John Bozen and Bozen Law. I get to work with really amazing people as our sponsors.
SPEAKER 17 :
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SPEAKER 19 :
April 26th, 1777. Colonel, the British are raiding Danbury and burning the town. I’ll go tell them. Sixteen-year-old Sybil Ludington mounted her horse and rode 40 miles through night and pouring rain. That’s twice the distance of Paul Revere to sound the alarm.
SPEAKER 02 :
Quickly, assemble at my father’s house.
SPEAKER 19 :
The Kim Monson Show is our modern-day Sybil Luddington, bringing us the latest breaking news in the battle for truth and freedom. Ben’s Plumbing, Heating, and Cooling is proud to stand with Kim. Will you stand with us? Get engaged with the issue that keeps you up at night so that you can influence your school and community with truth and justice. And for quality craftsmanship at a fair price, call or text Ben’s Plumbing, Heating, and Cooling at 303-995-1636. That number again is 303-995-1636.
SPEAKER 13 :
Sometimes it is difficult to make sense of it all. How can you sift through the clamor for your attention and get to the truth? The Kim Munson Show is here to help. Kim searches for truth and clarity by examining issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Tune in to the Kim Munson Show each weekday, 6 to 8 a.m. with encores 1 to 2 p.m. and 10 to 11 p.m. on KLZ 560 AM, KLZ 100.7 FM. The KLZ website, the KLZ app, and Alexa. Play KLZ. Shows can also be found at KimMunson.com, Spotify, and iTunes.
SPEAKER 06 :
and welcome back to the kim munson show thank you so much for joining us we are pre-recording these shows for the week of thanksgiving and hope you’re having just a really blessed time we have so much to be grateful for in this country i know we have challenges and we’ve got to step forward to address those challenges but we’re talking about stories and an organization that is great with stories is the center for american values They tell the stories of our Medal of Honor recipients. And these are men who many times they don’t talk about it because they receive the medal for actions they took on one of the most challenging days of their lives. But they step forward to take action to protect those around them. The Center for American Values in Pueblo is a very special place. I’d highly recommend that you put this on your bucket list. Take the children, the grandchildren down. It’s changed people’s lives. In fact, before Veterans Day, I was out at the USMC Memorial for the event that the foundation had put on in honor of Veterans Day. And there were some listeners there that they said that they had gone down to the center. And I said, it’s a special place. And she said, it is. I said, it changed my life. She said, mine, too. So I’d really recommend that you support both of these organizations, the USMC Memorial Foundation and the Center for American Values. Those websites are USMCMemorialFoundation.org and AmericanValueCenter.org as well. And in studio with me is my friend Brad Beck. He is a co-founder of Liberty Toastmasters, frequent guest host on the show, frequent guest on the show. And we’ve been talking about I Remember When, stories to pass along. And this is so important. And I think we can weave the stories from generation to generation. You said that you loved sitting around the adults’ table and just listening to the stories. And there’s a fan favorite that is requested by me many times. And I weaved this story from my maternal grandfather. And he had the funniest sense of humor and shared this. And I remember Western Kansas, we were out. I was with my mom and my grandmother and my grandfather and me, I think my little brother and sister as well. And I guess, I don’t know why, but my grandfather was across the field, and he was going to walk across the field and get in the car with us. And somehow a badger started chasing him. The next thing I know, I see my grandfather. You know, dirt’s flying. He’s running. This badger’s after him. And he’s running like crazy. And badgers are mean. And we had the car door open. And he jumped in and closed the door just in time for him to not be attacked by a badger. But that is a fan favorite that I am requested to tell on a regular basis. Great story.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and you mentioned the center. Drew Dix, if I may put a plug in for his podcast with Brad Padula. They’re fabulous. And they tell some great stories. And, you know, I talk about the issues. I love how they open the show about in the undisclosed silo somewhere on his ranch. You know, you sit there and you listen to it. I have on cassette tape all the old, not all, but a lot of the old radio shows. You know, the Green Hornet and you just name all those. You have them on a cassette tape? I have a cassette tape because I have a cassette player. And I bought them years ago. The old Abbott and Costello and, you know, just everything. great listening opportunities and when i used to drive a lot for business go from city to city on my business at night i put in one of those tapes as well and just listen and use your your imagination and imagination is to me it’s the second greatest nation besides the united states the greatest nation in the world is america uh stole that from a disneyland ride years ago but You know, the person who was leading the group around said, what’s the greatest nation in the world? And everybody would say their country or the United States. And this guy said, no, it’s imagination. And we need more of it. He’s right. Because there are so many problems and so many issues. But if we have good stories and good leaders and good imaginations, there’s nothing that’s impossible. I mean, you look at where humankind has come from and think of all the stories that are Hundreds and thousands of years old. We don’t know how long mankind has really been here. And so from written language, maybe 10,000 years ago. What’s beyond that? I know. You know, all the oral histories, thousands and thousands and thousands. How many stories are out there? And where we get our myths and our legends. I often wonder about, you know, it’s too bad that they didn’t have writing back then and we could read those stories. And when there’s an archaeological find, I’m just fascinated. I was like, what did they find out? What do we uncover as human beings that we’re rediscovering now that the ancients knew, you know?
SPEAKER 06 :
So reading, we talk a lot about education. Reading is so important. And I was an avid reader as a child and had an imagination. And I still have this book. And in fact, Christy Whaley, who’s one of our fellow Liberty Toastmasters, I brought it out at one of our girls’ gatherings. And it is like 50 famous fairy tales. Brad, the book is falling apart. But Chrissy said, I want to see this book. And so I think she borrowed it for a little bit and gave it back. But I would read these stories and imagine. And that’s why… Love these devices, all these electronic devices, but also paper, pencil, writing. We need to make sure that we’re encouraging our children and grandchildren to do that as well.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. And I wasn’t a voracious reader as I am now, and now I can’t read enough. But when I was a kid, I remember going to the library in school and pulling out the picture books. And just imagining, you know, ancient mariners, the Egyptians, the Romans, the Greeks, the Etruscans, and looking at the pictures.
SPEAKER 06 :
You were too busy. I was looking at stuff just enjoying it. But you were too busy with all your buddies and everything you were doing as a kid, you know?
SPEAKER 04 :
I won’t tell you all the stories we get in trouble about. Oh, I want to hear those. But it was just a different time. But we used our mind. And we created a world that was fun. You know, you didn’t go off the deep end and imagining things, but it was just a lot of fun. I remember making a little mini Disneyland on the side of my house with a little boat ride and, you know, the Matterhorn, all the dirt. I mean, it was fun.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, this brings back, this brings back memories. So with my neighbors and my mother, and this was really good advice. We were not allowed to go into anybody’s house. She also knew how to keep us safe. And, but then if we went to somebody’s house, we had to have special permission. So my neighbor crossed the alley, she would come over and we would play, let’s make a deal. And we would take everything out of our, my closet. And then we’d have door number one, number two and door number three. And then we would put little prizes behind those and then we’d play that game. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Do you remember that? Oh, yeah. And it didn’t matter to the gender. I mean, I remember playing with the girls in the neighborhood. Oh, yeah. You know, kitchen or whatever they had, you know, a little wooden box that made a refrigerator out of and tea parties. And, you know, guys had G.I. Joes and played with those. And you played army man.
SPEAKER 06 :
And it was just fun. Now, my mother would not let us have a kin. And I think she thought it was ridiculous. Probably too close to add it. So my brother had G.I. Joe. So I remember the great love stories. We’d go, G.I. Joe, Barbie, G.I. Joe. Oh, my gosh. You have brought back. This is such a great conversation. Liberty Toastmasters, we’ve got about a minute to talk about that, because being able to communicate means being able to connect. And it’s not just with public office. It’s with children and grandchildren. Liberty Toastmasters is invaluable for that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I think it is. And the Liberty Toastmasters in Denver meets the first and third Saturday of the month from 10 to 12 at the Independence Institute. And the Liberty Toastmasters North meets up at the Boulder County Republican Office the second and fourth, the same time, 10 to 12. Don’t have to be Republican, though. No, it’s open. It’s just a building that they let us use. And please come, visit, listen, enjoy the stories, enjoy the camaraderie. We laugh a lot in both clubs. And we’ve become friends. We don’t agree on everything. But when we’re in that setting, we try to help our fellow TILS masters be the best they can be. That kind of reminds me of a quote my dad said when I was growing up. He says, Bradley, I don’t care what you are in life as long as you’re the best. And I always strive to be the best in whatever I do.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and on that, because I had the same thing, and it was – I think I needed to come to kind of an understanding. It was not be the best because of that competition match, you know, with others, which I – It’s to do your best to strive for excellence. And I think that’s probably the message that you’re really talking about. Exactly. And if you can be your best, you inspire people around you to be their best. And then just think what America happens then. Oh, yeah. And do you have a quote from your mom as well?
SPEAKER 04 :
Sure. Well, you know, my mom said, you have no right to complain unless you get involved. And goodness knows I’ve been involved, whether it’s Toastmasters or public policy or just being in my community doing Optimist. It’s fun. And I think more people need to be involved in their local community and then they can make it a better place.
SPEAKER 06 :
Everybody needs to do one thing. Exactly. If we do one thing, we will be able to reclaim this great state, this great country. And then we can have our kids say, I remember when. Yeah. And just have a great, blessed Thanksgiving and share the stories. Brad Beck, thank you. This has just been fantastic. So, my friends today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you’re not alone. God bless you. God bless America. Stay tuned for hour number two.
SPEAKER 18 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 20 :
It’s the Kim Munson Show. Analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 06 :
An early childhood taxing district? What on earth is that?
SPEAKER 20 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 06 :
I don’t think that we should be passing legislation that is so complicated that people kind of throw up their hands and say, I can’t understand that.
SPEAKER 20 :
Today’s current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 06 :
And it’s not fair just because you’re a big business that you get a break on this and the little guy doesn’t.
SPEAKER 20 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
SPEAKER 06 :
And welcome to the Kim Munson Show, hour number two. Thank you so much for joining us. You each are treasured, you’re valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence. Take care of your heart, your soul, your mind and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. And I get to work with a great team. Producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, Amanda. and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. And happy Thanksgiving week to all of you. We are pre-recording these shows for Thanksgiving week, and I’m so excited to record this show with our young producers. That’s Producer Joe, Producer Luke, and we’re doing our book discussion regarding The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli. Producer Joe, it’s great to have you as one of our featured guests.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s glad to be here.
SPEAKER 06 :
And Luke, the conversations are always so fascinating. And we always kind of have an after party sometimes and talk about things. So we thought, okay, let’s do a recorded show so that we have a little bit more time. So it’s great to have you here.
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s great to be here. Thanks for inviting me back.
SPEAKER 06 :
So thanks for suggesting this book. And we’re going through, I suggested the first book, which was Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. And you selected the next one, The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli. And then Joe wants us to do the Communist Manifesto when we get done with this. But for somebody that might be new, set The Prince up for us.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. Written. You know, we’ve talked about when it’s written a couple of times. I think I’ve got it wrong a couple of times.
SPEAKER 1 :
1513.
SPEAKER 16 :
It was written in 1513, but wasn’t published until 1532. So it’s a pretty old text written by a man, Nicola Machiavelli. can really be described as kind of the guy like the advisor for, uh, his little part of the world during this time. Uh, this isn’t some like cloistered scholar, uh, writing down feverishly in a book atop some high tower somewhere. This man was, um, directly involved in the advisory of and dealings with politics and policies with princes across kind of, you know, that entire swath of land, you know, Italy and that neck of the woods there. So he’s very, very involved, very knowledgeable man. And he wrote The Prince as sort of A like a quote unquote guide for future princes in a kind of tongue in cheek, a little I’ve seen enough and am going to reveal the things I have seen. in this piece of work, which is where Niccolo Machiavelli gets a reputation, I think, kind of famously for being like the author of evil. You hear it in common phrase, you know, to be a Machiavellian, right? Is to be someone where like the ends justify the means. And I think it’s, misattributed at times, in the sense that Machiavelli wasn’t saying, these are the things you should do. He’s saying, these are the things that princes and people in power do do. This is what they have been doing, but it’s framed in the way of a guide so that it would be viewed more favorably. Like trying to deliver a poison pill by coating it in sugar. He is delivering this piece as a gift of saying, here is what all good rulers should do. When in reality, the subtext, the very foundational level of this piece, piece of work was written as a, I’m going to reveal and share the strategies that people have been using for a long time. It’s kind of like the historical framework. There’s a lot of history on Machiavelli. He talks a lot about history in his work. And just for some additional context, to ask, why would someone in such a big position of power do this? Why go through all this effort? He was also famously imprisoned by and subsequently tortured by the very regimes he was helping for a time where it’s like he had given these ideas and he was presenting these things and he got thrown in prison tortured and was not a good time so I think he was perhaps a little resentful a little spiteful I mean I would be a little history about the book about him and kind of what’s going on in the context in which it’s written
SPEAKER 06 :
A couple of things. First of all, I’ve heard a lot of young people talk about the prince. Do you feel in, and I’ll ask both of you, in the groups that you run with, is the prince quoted or referred to a lot? I’ll go to you first, Luke.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, I think so. it’s seen kind of a revival among individuals who are interested in like the deeper workings of politics and history. So I wouldn’t say it’s like super popular, but within certain spheres who are engaging in this kind of idea, it’s something that’s come up a couple more times because it’s such a foundational work of like political philosophy. It’s one of the, Political classics, in a sense. If you’re a literature major, you should probably read Homer’s Odyssey and the Iliad, right? You should read Romeo and Juliet. If you’re into political theory and political philosophy, then The Prince is one of those should-read books. Okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
OK, thanks. Joe, how about your sphere of influence?
SPEAKER 08 :
My sphere of influence, I actually like hanging out with older people, generally speaking. So I’m always trying to gain knowledge. But they obviously have read it, too. But I also see it kind of as like a starter for into learning more about the background workings of government and what can be. OK.
SPEAKER 06 :
And Luke, you just mentioned something that we are seeing from the radical activists today. That in in our country now, and that is the ends justify the means. And that’s somewhat Machiavellian, right?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yes. Yes. I mean, that’s what he talks about in his book is a way that this is the best way I can describe it is he frames a lot of his stuff in very logical arguments, which is the same method and approach that a lot of people in power use. So it’s like he is using the strategies of those in power to reveal the strategies of those in power as like a look at here is what they’re doing and how they are doing it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. So this could be, it’s probably really a good read for people no matter where they are on the political spectrum, yes?
SPEAKER 16 :
I think so. Machiavelli does a decent job of being… A political in the sense that he doesn’t really give a whole lot of his explicit opinions in when he does. They’re framed in a way of this is how a good ruler should should do things. But again, framed from that perspective of here is what rulers are already doing. So it’s a little layered. Right. It’s not like an easy read. Very dense, very rich with subtext. So you kind of have to really sit down and dissect it. But I believe so.
SPEAKER 06 :
So I probably need to read it again after I get through with this.
SPEAKER 16 :
I’ve read it three times so far. And every time I’ve read it, there’s a little something extra in there.
SPEAKER 06 :
Something new to learn. These are such important discussions. And so pleased to have these discussions with these young guys, producer Joe and producer Luke. And all this happens because I really get to work with great people. And I am so grateful for each and every one of my sponsors. And as I mentioned earlier, we are pre-recording these shows for Thanksgiving week with great guests, great subjects, and also with our great sponsors. And talking with John Bozen with Bozen Law. If you’ve been injured, be sure and reach out to them sooner versus later. John Bozen, welcome.
SPEAKER 03 :
Good morning and yeah, happy Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER 06 :
and wanted to get your reflections on Thanksgiving. We have so many things that we’re concerned about, but we’re really blessed people. There’s so much to be grateful for.
SPEAKER 03 :
We’re an incredibly blessed people, incredibly blessed nation, and we must show and have incredible gratitude and thankfulness for just being born in this country. For those that weren’t born but legally got here, I have to be incredibly thankful, too, because we have opportunities that no one else in the world have. And I just, yeah, I mean, Thanksgiving, we have a lot to be thankful for, Kim.
SPEAKER 06 :
Awesome country we live in. We do. And with that, we talk, John, on a regular basis. There’s these blessings which we stop and reflect on Thanksgiving. But because of these blessings, we also have a duty. And that duty is to preserve and conserve this great American idea and pass that on to the next generations as it’s been passed to us.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely. And you and I have talked about this. It’s our time to step up. And we see it all around us now. We have… challenges. We have attacks on our freedoms. And we can be thankful and we should be thankful. But we also have to recognize that to maintain what we have, we’ve got to step up. And you’ve done that. Your voice has been loud and bold and very clear in terms of educating people and letting people know what they can do and how they can do it to fight the attacks that are being made on our country on a daily basis.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and I think here in Colorado, many times we are at the tip of the spear with a lot of these things that are going on. And I guess in a way, as daunting as it can be sometimes, I’m grateful that we’re in the battle. And John, you and… Your firm are a great sponsor of the show to make this happen. We’re an independent voice so that we can step into this battle of ideas that is raging in our country today. So I do thank you and your colleagues for that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, yeah, I mean, I’m thankful that I have the opportunity to help people. I’m thankful that the majority of people listening to the show right now will never need my help. I’ve been very blessed and given a skill set that I think I have put to very good use in helping folks that do face a different kind of challenge when they’ve been injured on the job or when they’ve been in a car accident that was not their fault and all the other things that can happen to us out there, the curveballs that life throws at us. I help folks deal with those things, and my lawyers, we’ve got one of the most experienced law firms in the state with elite lawyers that can help folks get through those tough times.
SPEAKER 06 :
And again, just refresh our listeners’ memories on the different kinds of things that you help people with.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, motor vehicle collisions. When someone gets rear-ended, when someone gets hit by a drunk driver plowing through that red light. Anything where they’re in a motor vehicle collision and it was not their fault. Someone else did something or didn’t do something, caused the accident. Trip and falls, slips on ice that wasn’t removed, that should have been removed three days prior or two days prior. Dog attacks, on-the-job injuries, workers’ compensation claims. We also help folks who are unable to work either due to illness or injuries. We help them apply for and obtain Social Security disability benefits. We go after big pharma for putting drugs out there and not disclosing the harmful effects or side effects those drugs have. Bad products. Anything that hurts somebody, Kim, we’re going to step up and help folks put their lives back together.
SPEAKER 06 :
And what’s that number that people can reach you at, John Bozen? That number is 303-999-9999. John Bozen, thank you and happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
SPEAKER 03 :
And happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, Kim. Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
There’s so much noise coming at us. Sometimes it is difficult to make sense of it all. How can you sift through the clamor for your attention and get to the truth? The Kim Munson Show is here to help. Kim searches for truth and clarity by examining issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Tune in to the Kim Munson Show each weekday, 6 to 8 a.m. with encores 1 to 2 p.m. and 10 to 11 p.m. on KLZ 560 AM, KLZ 100.7 FM. The KLZ website, the KLZ app, and Alexa. Play KLZ. Shows can also be found at KimMunson.com, Spotify, and iTunes.
SPEAKER 06 :
And welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. Check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. And very pleased to be recording these shows for the week of Thanksgiving with special guests and special subjects. Before we get into it, though, from Parker to Golden, Little Richie’s Pizza and Pasta is your go-to for real New York-style pizza, hearty pastas, and that unbeatable local vibe. Little Richie’s is serving up daily specials, quick and tasty weekday lunch deals, and and a happy hour the locals actually build their plans around. So whether you’re bringing the crew, catching up with friends, or flying solo for a hot slice, Little Richie’s is your neighborhood hangout. And I am pretty sure that I’m going to be ordering a number of pizzas for an event sometime this week. So again, Little Richie’s is in Parker and Golden. Pleased to have in studio with me, that is producer Luke, and of course we always have producer Joe in studio because he’s behind the board. And with these two young guys, we’re going through The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli. And I wanted to drill down just a little bit more on something that you said, and we came up to it during the break, and that is the ends justify the means. We are seeing… For example, even with the Charlie Kirk assassination, there are those that seem to think that it’s OK to silence other voices. I believe all voices should be able to be heard. But this in justifying the means can go a very long way. Dangerous route, I think. And I’ll go to you first, Luke, and then to you, Joe.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The end is justifying the means. And I think what that means to me is people become willing to excuse atrocities because the atrocity is perceived as a short term event. Like a short-term negative for a long-term gain. But I think a perspective that gets lost a lot of the times is that even if your perception is, you know, I will perform a short-term evil for a long-term good. Perceived consequence. Perceived good. Well, that short-term evil has a real bad habit of persisting in memory. People will remember the evil thing you have done even once that evil thing has come to pass. So the specific event may be over, but everyone’s going to remember you are the person who did that. And if you are capable of doing that, what else are you capable of doing? It’s very much… This idea of, you know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions taken to its ultimate extreme in the sense that your good intentions, you know, the intention doesn’t matter if the thing you are doing is still getting you to hell in this instance. So I think, like I said, there’s a. An analogy I’ve used a couple times in the sense that sort of related to the current political climate, that it is very hard to win a game of chess if the person you’re playing against is cheating. You can be the highest level grandmaster in a game of chess playing against a total beginner. And if this beginner is stealing the pieces off the board when you’re not looking, you’re going to lose that match every time. Well, then the most… logical conclusion some people come to, well, then the grandmaster must also cheat then to win, right? An end justifies the means. Well, if they’re cheating, I’m going to cheat so I can win.
SPEAKER 06 :
And you’re going down a very dangerous road.
SPEAKER 16 :
Goes down a very dangerous road. I think… The more honest answer, the more difficult answer, is to find a way to get the beginner to stop cheating, is to prevent that from happening at the beginning, which, again, is much harder. It’s a more noble path, but a more technically difficult path to convince someone to stop cheating or to enforce rules or to get other people to watch the person to prevent them from cheating, however many analogies you want. That’s harder. That’s much, much harder than just stealing the pieces yourself as well. So, I think those all kind of go hand in hand.
SPEAKER 06 :
Very interesting perspective. Okay, Producer Joe, your thoughts on this, on the ends justify the means. And again, a lot of young people, my understanding is a lot of young people think that’s okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
So, what’s your perspective on this? To me, it’s kind of an excuse. So… When I actually got curious and I looked up the definition of an excuse and it’s actually it is the attempt to lessen the blame attaching to a fault or offense or to seek to defend or justify and justifies in there. So. An excuse oftentimes is just some way of allowing this bad thing to happen. We have this conscience in ourselves that say, what are we doing? Is it good or bad? And nine times out of ten when we say the ends justifies the means, it’s because our gut feeling was bad and we still did it anyways. And now we’re making excuses about it.
SPEAKER 06 :
We’re trying to – very good point on that. And so to bring both of those things together is – it is more difficult. So, for example, there are those that say – that look at one side of the political aisle or the other side, and they say, well, they’re doing whatever, and it’s not right. But the only way to win is to start doing what the other side is doing, which is not right. I have found, even when I was on city council, That it was difficult to take the stand of what is fair. For example, under economic development, under the guise of economic development, you’ve got PBIs, politicians, bureaucrats and interested parties that are doing special deals. And it’s cronyism. It’s not capitalism. That’s cronyism, where government and business gets in bed together so that they can use rules, regulations, taxes, fees, whatever, to squash the competition. And so every time that we had any kind of an economic development issue, presentation i always voted no because the reason is luke and joe is under the vision of the declaration that all men are created equal with rights from god of life liberty and pursuit of happiness that’s our ideal and if we’re created equal we should be treated impartially under the law so that means no special deals for anybody else you will go to you first joe
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it just makes me think about the reason this nation is so great is because of the equalness, but not in equalness of conclusions, equalness and opportunities to start something and go somewhere. And maybe it goes somewhere different than, say, Luke. He and I do the same thing at the exact same time. We’re still going to end up with different results each and every time. So there is no equal conclusion. It’s always equal opportunity. Like that.
SPEAKER 06 :
OK, Luke, your thoughts?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, I think you see sort of like what you were saying, you know, business and government in bed with each other. And we’re talking about that chess analogy of people cheating. And it brings me to the saying that evil wins when good men stand by and do nothing. And I think we’re in a space now where good and evil, however you want to phrase it, operates on a bell curve. You have a small minority of people who are truly bad and a small minority of people who are righteous and just in all things that they do.
SPEAKER 06 :
Or try to. Because there’s human nature.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right. And most everyone kind of falls in the middle between, you know, they want to kind of do their own thing, keep themselves, mind their own business. And you get into this position where evil, in this instance, has been allowed to fester. You know, these people have been allowed to make these backroom deals and, you know, get in bed with each other because no one’s doing anything about it because no one wants to be the nail that sticks up. Right. which is difficult because it’s allowing these things to happen it’s like I said it’s very easy to sit by and go man someone should do something about this and much harder to be the person to do something about it but if everyone’s sitting around going man someone should really do something about this well then the bad guys are going to win every single time that it’s an excuse in the same way we were talking about the ends justify the means if you’re sitting around going someone else will deal with it well that’s an excuse right it’s It is an offloading of the burden of responsibility to a future someone or even a future you. If the ends justify the means, well, then I can excuse any action now for the benefit later. Well, if someone else is always going to do something about it, well, then that’s not on me, right? That’s on someone else to take care of that. Everyone’s doing it. So the problem persists.
SPEAKER 06 :
And that’s why we do this show is so that we can kick the tires on these ideas. Gentlemen, this is a fascinating conversation. I’m talking with producer Luke, producer Joe. We have these important discussions because of our sponsors and really appreciate the sponsorship of the second syndicate. The second amendment is in our bill of rights to protect everything else.
SPEAKER 07 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
All Kim’s sponsors are in inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Monson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmonson.com. That’s Kim Monson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 06 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. And we are pre-recording these shows for Thanksgiving week with special guests and special subjects. And we have in studio producer Luke and producer Joe. We’re talking about The Prince. Before we get to that, though, financial freedom starts with the right guide. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So let’s go over to you, Producer Joe. You said you had a thought regarding Producer Luke’s comments at the end of the other segment.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, ma’am. When Luke said it’s a way of pushing off the blame, so to speak, it made me think about, well, what is the inverse of that? I think the inverse is courage. We often want to push it off on someone else because we’re afraid someone’s going to react some way or the anxiety in us is eating some way or another. But the I see a huge drop in courage. We don’t see kids going outside and riding a bicycle and maybe falling down and getting back up on it much in days. And so this stepping forward to do the hard things, we need courage.
SPEAKER 16 :
I was just going to say, that leads into something. Courage is… I don’t think, for a lot of people, courage isn’t inherited. It’s not an inherent trait. It’s something that’s fostered. It’s something that needs to be learned in the sense that, for example, I’ll say, not to get too far into the weeds, discomfort. is an underexplored emotion and feeling, because on a very primal level, it is the acknowledgement that something is wrong, and comfort is the primal need to be safe. Doing something that scares you, makes you uncomfortable, and it is in that discomfort that growth happens, in the same way that a muscle only grows when it is stressed and broken down and then allowed to rebuild. I think there is a culture of comfort above all else, where if you are uncomfortable, that is a bad thing that we need to remove, and your comfort is the No. 1 priority. I think that’s the wrong approach. I think discomfort, doing the uncomfortable thing, needs to be explored because it is in the pushing of that boundary that courage is found. If you are uncomfortable, with jumping into a pool, well, then you’re never going to jump into the pool or learn how to swim. And it is in the fear and overcoming of that fear, pushing beyond that discomfort, which creates courage. That is an emotion that needs to be fostered and brought up and sort of well-kindled. And I think, again, culturally, I don’t think we’re doing that enough.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, I don’t either. Under the guise of keeping kids safe… I see kids riding their bicycles with their helmets on. I didn’t ride with a helmet. Maybe that explains a lot. But I’m thinking about it. Parents want to keep their kids safe.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, I think that’s a good thing to want to keep them safe. But there’s a difference between safety and coddling, where if your child never experiences the reality of life, then that is stunting them. In the same way, you shouldn’t throw your child into traffic, right? Right. Right. There’s a line, and a lot of people aren’t willing to see where that is.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, the other thing I wanted to mention, though, is with the indoctrination of our kids, people are concerned about the outside of their heads. But we really need to be focusing on what’s going on and being taught to them on the inside. But we’re going to run out of time if I don’t get you over here to the book. So we’re going through chapters 13, 14, and 15 in the prints.
SPEAKER 16 :
So where do you want to start, Luke? Yeah. Well, beginning on Chapter 13, and again, these things are very universal, and it really does very naturally lead into what we’re talking about, these universal foundational ideas that exist outside of a specific regime because they apply themselves to the human condition and the very nature of how society functions. So it’s pretty universal. At the very end of Chapter 13… Machiavelli says, “…I conclude therefore that no principality is secure without having its own forces. On the contrary, it is entirely dependent on good fortune, not having the valor which an adversity would defend it. And it has always been the opinion and judgment of wise men that nothing can be so uncertain or unstable as fame or power not founded on its own strength.” And what that means, in essence, kind of what we’re talking about is that there’s nothing as uncertain as people who have come into power and fame and position founded outside of their own capacity and ability, right? Those people are dangerous people. Danger in this instance being they’re kind of poisoning the well. And I think that leads into directly what we were saying previously. Yeah. Regardless of arms, talking about those in leadership, power, and position who have gotten there outside of their own merit, call it nepotism, call it any other outside force that has allowed them into power, is they are… presenting the ideas they are presenting these thoughts and opinions trying to pass laws or enforce rules that aren’t founded on a life of lived experience they have been Given fame and fortune and power through other means. And, you know, these people who have existed outside of reality are now trying to impose their version of reality on other people, which is a dangerous game to be playing. If you’ve never lived in society and you’re trying to tell society how it’s supposed to work, that’s not good. You know, that’s I think we can all agree that it’s a pretty bad precedent game.
SPEAKER 06 :
You mean like Mondami, who’s not really had a job? So, OK, producer Joe, you had something you wanted to say.
SPEAKER 08 :
I was actually going to mention Mondami, who literally had only three years of air quotes working because he was dealing with other people’s money as well, which I still see kind of a faculty of the left. So I don’t. He’s been in politics the entire time and really hasn’t worked. How is he supposed to know how the economics of the state works when he hasn’t even experienced it personally?
SPEAKER 06 :
On a micro level, that’s a really good point. Okay, Luke, we want to stay disciplined here and hit the points that we want to hit here. So what’s next?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, let’s speed through to Chapter 14, that which concerns a prince on the subject of the Art of War. The Art of War, Sun Tzu, another famous piece of literature. Don’t read that one. It’s kind of boring. Not a whole lot in there. But I think Machiavelli, when he’s talking about the Art of War, probably not Sun Tzu’s The Art of War. Different one. His philosophy being, in essence, throughout this chapter, that a prince and prince is kind of synonymous with any ruling class, anyone in charge. That you should always be prepared for the possibility of war. And that the great folly of a man or of rulers in this instance is… Saying, well, we’re not in war right now, so let’s just not worry about it. Disband the armies. We don’t got a plan. We’re in peacetime. And once someone sees that you are weak and sees an opening, very similar to the chess analogy, if they see the opportunity to steal a piece, they’re going to steal the piece. You have to be prepared. And I know there’s a lot of controversy around, for example, America’s spending on defense and stuff like that. And I also personally take, not offense, but I take issue with America’s habit of spending an outrageous amount of money on the defense of other nations. I understand staying good and protecting our allies, but… We’re in this position, America, our defense budget is astronomical. It is so outlandishly large that our branches of military individually are larger than entire nations’ militaries to a degree that I think is rather insane. And I’m not saying I don’t think we should defend the country. But I think we’ve taken on this position to defend every country, to be the world’s policing force, which one shouldn’t be the role of any one nation. Because I think, for example, put yourself in literally any other nation’s shoes, right? If America was small and China was the world’s policing force, I think we’d have a lot of issue with that. Right. In the same vein that I think other countries rightfully have an issue with us being this global policing force. I think there needs to be some balance there in the sense that, well, yes, I agree with Machiavelli that. You having your own arms is essential to your own security. But that doesn’t mean we should be mercenarying ourself out to other nations. Let them deal with their defense. Let us deal with our defense. And then I think let the cards fall where they may. I think it’s one thing to protect an ally, and then it is one thing to coddle an ally and make them so dependent upon our protection that they are incapable of defending themselves. Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I think that there is waste in the defense budget, for sure. And I agree with you. I don’t think that we should be the nation or the world’s policeman. Blood and treasure has… What’s amazing to me, though, Joe, I’ll go to you on this. And I think you have something you want to say, but we’ve spent… Enormous amount of blood and treasure on fighting communism. And now we’re voting in communism in our country. It’s unbelievable to me, Joe.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s unbelievable to me, too. And I looked up the statistics for the top five military spenders in 2025. United States… Approximately $886 billion to $962 billion. China is second, approximately $246 billion to $318 billion. That is astronomically higher than the second in command. I’m kind of with Luke on this. I think we… We spend too much, and sometimes that is to the benefit of people as well, because if, like Boeing, selling a plane outwards, he’s going to rake in a profit. So I think this pairing of government plus companies has expanded outwards to do that, where we’re coddling our… People that are with us. And so it’s very slippery. And I, I, I, yeah, I’m worried.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and before that, though, we spend a whole bunch more on social programs and that. I think we need to address that as well. And that’s kind of like the sacred cow that we can’t talk about, but we’re going to have to talk about it. But Luke, even though we spend so much at the federal level, we’re concerned about it. We are voting ourselves into debt here at the local, the county and the state level. It’s crazy to me. So let’s stay on task, though. We’re just about at stopping time on this particular. So let’s do that. We’re going to stop and go to break. And all these discussions happen because of our sponsors for everything mortgages. Reach out to Lorne Levy.
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SPEAKER 01 :
We’ll see you next time. To learn more reach out to Teresa at 520-631-9243. Teresa would love to talk with you. Again that number is 520-631-9243.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. And did want to mention the Center for American Values, which is located in Pueblo during this Thanksgiving week when families in. I’d recommend that you put it on your bucket list to go down to Pueblo. I guess I’m saying down if you’re in the metro area, but visit the Center for American Values. It will change your life. These portraits of valor are so inspiring. The center is nonpolitical, nonpartisan. They focus on these foundational principles of honor, integrity, and patriotism. And that website is AmericanValueCenter.org. And then also the USMC Memorial Foundation is doing great work taking care of the official Marine Memorial, which is out at 6th and Colfax. And you can help and support them by making a contribution or getting into Christmas, Hanukkah season. A great gift is to buy your loved one a brick that will be on their pathways of service to honor their military service. You’ll receive a beautiful certificate that you can box up and wrap up and give as a gift. It’s a lovely gift. During this week of Thanksgiving, we are pre-recording in studio with me is producer Joe. Well, producer Joe’s always in the studio. Producer Luke as well. We’re going through The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli. And you said, producer Luke, that there’s a lot of meat in Chapter 15.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, there’s a lot of subtlety, a lot of nuance, a lot of layers. Not a whole lot of time to get to in the short time we have remaining. So I do encourage people who haven’t had a chance to read it to get a copy and really sit down and really attempt to digest it. Because like I said in the beginning of the show, while he gives a lot of historical context, one of the things he talks about a lot in his books is that wise men ought to refer to the great men of history. And to look back on the successes and failures of previous empires to determine why some have succeeded and why have some failed. And there will be meat and potatoes to this. And what Machiavelli does in this is really interesting. add another stepping stone in that line of historical reference for why success or why failure.
SPEAKER 06 :
I find it interesting that we’re talking about this, which he wrote this in 1513.
SPEAKER 16 :
1513 and published in 1532.
SPEAKER 06 :
So this is pre-America. This concept of self-government is not, I don’t think it’s even out there, Luke.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, he mentions kind of in passings, and I know he has another book on republics, but it’s a very different style of governance, right? He uses the word republic and republics exist, but again, not quite in the same way America was going to exist later down the line.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, Joe?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, totally agree.
SPEAKER 06 :
OK. OK. What’s the what’s the points we want to make sure we hit chapter 15?
SPEAKER 16 :
Because we’re talking about the stepping stones and the sort of links in this chain of history. And we have talked about how a lot of the points he makes here are are timeless in the sense that they appeal to and speak of a human condition in a sociological condition. It is the philosophy of governance, not necessarily an individual, specific philosophy that he is proposing. And one of the things he mentions that I think really sums this up in a nice way is he talks here at the very end of Chapter 15. I’ll just read directly from my version. which is from, I believe it is the Florida Institute. It’s the educational page from Florida University over there. I do have two physical copies, both different translations, but they’re very nice and at home. He says… I say that all men, when they are spoken of in chiefly princes for being more highly placed, are remarked for some of these qualities which bring them either blame or praise. And thus, it is that one is reputed liberal, another miserly. And then he kind of goes in and kind of describes what miserly means, which is a Tuscan term. For the sake of time, we’ll skip that. He goes on to say, one is reputed generous, one reprecious, one cruel, one compassionate, one faithless, another faithful, one effeminate and cowardly, another bold and brave, one affable, another haughty, one, I don’t know how to pronounce that word, one lavacious, I don’t know. I think you got it. Yeah, one lavacious, another chaste, one sincere, another cunning, one hard, another easy, one grave, another frivolous, one religious, another unbelieving, and the like. And I know that everyone will confess that it would be most praiseworthy in a prince to exhibit all of the above qualities that are considered good, but because they can neither be entirely possessed nor observed, for human conditions do not permit it, it is necessary for him to be sufficiently prudent that he may know how to avoid the reproach of these vices, which would lose him his state, and also to keep himself, if it is possible, from those who would not lose him it. So he gives out a big list of fundamental human ideals, which to some are seen as good and virtuous, and to others are seen as vices and character flaws. And he doesn’t specify which… of the items in those lists are, in his opinion, good or bad because those can be perceived as good or bad by whoever is listening. An atheist would perceive someone who is unbelieving as a better prince or ruler who is also unbelieving. Conversely, a Christian might perceive another Christian as a better or more fit ruler. And he goes in and talks about how It is a prince’s duty to not pick and choose the perceived most virtuous of those ideals, but how to leverage who they are in a way that benefits them the most. And I think we see in a lot of those ideals that are outlined, you see rulers, people in power, doing those things here and now, where some people prefer more passive, more effeminate individuals in power. Some people prefer more courageous or… and boys are more masculine people in power. And Machiavelli’s simply just laying the groundwork. He says, the human condition has a multitude of traits, and each of those traits can be leveraged to appeal to the people you are attempting to rule over. So it’s a very nice, I think, sort of summation of this idea that It’s not what’s right and wrong on an individual level. It’s how you can present that information in the most beneficial way for you to find the ends that justify the means, for you to do what is necessary and present yourself in a way that is necessary to get into a position of power to then affect change thereafter.
SPEAKER 06 :
So I don’t think, Joe, that Machiavelli understood a concept of men putting down their lives for someone else, for liberty. Because it looks to me like he’s always talking about, how can I do what’s best for me? I don’t think the concept of people laying down their lives for liberty probably crossed his mind. What do you think?
SPEAKER 08 :
I think it did, but it’s kind of like giving someone the benefit of the doubt. If you do it the first time and it fails, well, you’re not likely to give it again. And so oftentimes I think he’s just kind of playing from the negative side just to give an overarching view of if you’re seeing – If you’re seeing it from both sides, this is where it could go wrong. And I think a lot of times he’s referring to it and this is what will go wrong if that happens. I also find it neat that… That’s kind of the genius of America is we get all those different qualities and personalities in a room together in different configurations. And then they have to bounce those ideas off of each other to where we can find a true middle ground.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Thank you, Joe. And Producer Luke, let’s wrap this up. What’s your final thought you’d like to leave on this? And then we’ll continue our discussion on this next month.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. Man, there’s so much. There’s so much to get into. Like I said… Before I encourage everyone to take some time and to sit down and read it. And again, I think it’s important because some of the translations offer the history of Machiavelli as like the prelude of the foreword. And then some do not. I think if you’re going to read the text, it’s important to read the context in which it has been written in the sense that. You mentioned you didn’t think Machiavelli had the idea or concept of men laying down their lives. I think he did, and he wrote this text in not revenge, but he wrote this text from a position of having been wronged. And as thus is framing the text in a very logical middle ground where I think Machiavelli would say, You know, men laying down their lives for the good of others is fine if you can gain some benefit from it. And then doing it frivolously results in the only thing, you know, the only thing that results in his corpses. I think he sees he sees a lot of this or rather he’s framing his arguments as like a social contract or a political contract. How a rule or a ruler can gain the most benefit. So, OK, like I said, just just read it yourself.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, we will continue the discussion next month. And our quote for the end of the show is from Robert Shuler. He says tough times never last, but tough people do. And we will talk with you tomorrow.
SPEAKER 09 :
And fast on a rough road riding high through the mountains climbing. young like a new moon rising fierce through the rain and lightning wandering out into this great unknown I don’t want no one to cry but tell them if I don’t
SPEAKER 18 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
