Callers engage with Steve on matters that test their faith and understanding. From the geographic mystery of the Garden of Eden to the complexities of early Christian teachings, Steve provides advice and biblically-rooted wisdom. Highlights include the differences in baptismal practices and what it means to be truly victorious in Christian life amidst trials. This episode offers a thought-provoking journey through Christian doctrines and personal quandaries faced by believers.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon. We have an open line for you so you can call in if you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith or maybe you’d like to discuss something, a point where maybe you disagree with the host. We welcome your calls. The number to call is 844-484-5737. The last couple of days, I’ve had to announce that our lines were full at the beginning of the program. That’s not the case. We have several lines open right now. A good time for you to get through if you hope to get on in this hour. The number, again, 844-484-5737. I think we’ll just go to the phones, and our first caller today is Glenn Ann from Centennial, Colorado. Glenn Ann, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, thank you. Thanks for taking my call, and also thank you for everything that you do. I sure appreciate it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 06 :
My question is, I’ve heard you say several times that you think it’s possible to lose your salvation. Is that right? Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I believe it’s possible to apostatize and to depart from Christ, right? Right, to depart.
SPEAKER 06 :
Do you have scriptures or in your topical lectures something that would have the scriptural support for that?
SPEAKER 02 :
Sure. In fact, if you go to our website, thenarrowpath.com, and go to the tab that says Topical Lectures, you’ll find a series called Knowing God. No, that’s not the one. Content of the Gospel. That’s the series. Content of the Gospel. And if you go there, you’ll find that the fifth lecture in that series is called Eternal Security. Now, I went so long on that lecture that I didn’t get it all in. But there’s a good hour and a half of presentation of scriptures. There’s a lot more scriptures where those came from. Someday I should do maybe a series covering all the verses because there’s so much on it. But you’ll find that there called Eternal Security. It’s in the series called The Content of the Gospel at the topical lectures at our website.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Okay. Okay, great. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Thank you for your call. God bless you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 02 :
Bye-bye. All right. Lorenzo from Huntington Beach, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hi, Steve. Good to talk to you again. I’m calling. I belong to a large church here in Huntington, and we have about three services a day. So one of the very important part of pastorship is to keep us together and one anothering. as the Bible tells us, to love one another. And we have, after the sermon, the other side of the notes is four questions for our breakout groups during the week when we meet to get different times of the week. And one is, it says, have you been filled with the Spirit every day? If yes, how are you being filled? If not, what is keeping you from happening, and how can you change it? And listening to you, I have a little different perspective maybe than I think the pastor is trying to ask us, is once we receive Christ, we have the Spirit. And things like Ephesians, you know, the putting on the full armor of God is, Not necessarily an exercise, but an attitude of who we are in Christ as we remember that as we go about our day. Would you agree?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I do agree that the discussion of the armor of God in Ephesians 6 is simply describing the normal aspects of the Christian life today. which are talked about throughout Scripture without the military metaphor. But in that particular case, those aspects like faith and salvation and truth and the righteousness, those things are simply compared to various pieces of armor seen in the Christian life as a metaphor. But I do believe it’s just describing the normal Christian life. When it comes to being filled with the Spirit, I imagine what the pastor is alluding to is probably Ephesians 5, verse 18, where it says, Do not be drunk with wine, which is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit. And since he used the term filled with the Spirit, I think this is one of the few places that term is found in Scripture. Of course, it’s also found in Acts chapter 2 and verse 4 on the day of Pentecost as they were all filled with the Spirit. Now, Paul, writing to the Ephesians, says, be filled with the Spirit. Now, this might be seen, at least by people of charismatic or Pentecostal sorts, as saying you need to get baptized in the Holy Spirit. And that would be called being filled with the Spirit, like it was on the day of Pentecost. And I won’t disagree with that. I don’t disagree that being baptized in the Spirit is being filled with the Spirit. But I think that what Paul’s saying in Ephesians 5.18 says, is not exhorting the Ephesian Christians to get baptized in the Spirit, because I think they probably already were. But the tense of the verbs in the statement, as many commentators have pointed out, when he says, be filled, many say, well, this is a continuous, you know, it’s an imperfect tense. So it suggests be being filled, be constantly being filled with the Spirit. So that… He’s not just saying, you know, have hands laid on you, get baptized in the Spirit and speak in tongues or something like that. He’s saying you need to continually be being filled with the Spirit. Now, how does one do that? Well, I think it’s probably the whole of our devotional life with Christ and our whole of trusting him and obeying him and meditating on the Word of God and things like that are all conducive to being filled with the Holy Spirit. But in the verses that follow it, he probably is expanding on what he means by being filled with the Spirit. Because he says in verses 19 through 21, he says, Speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord. Then verse 20, Giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. And then verse 21, submitting to one another in the fear of God. So he says, be being filled with the spirit by speaking to one another in spiritual songs and hymns and so forth, making melody in your heart to the Lord by giving thanks always for all things and by submitting to one another. So. I think what Paul is saying is the means that he is recommending for being filled with the Spirit continually is to continually be worshiping and praising God in your heart with songs and such, continually thanking God for everything. When you’re continually thankful, you’re never grumpy, you’re never bitter, you’re never angry. And your heart is a welcoming place for the Spirit to fill. I really believe that continual thanksgiving in all things is a very major… discipline that is conducive to remaining filled with the Spirit. And then, of course, submitting to one another, which I believe would simply mean not putting ourselves first, you know, continually putting other people’s interests ahead of our own, as Paul says in other places like Philippians chapter 2 at the beginning there, you know, let every man esteem himself. his neighbor’s interests and not only his own interests. Submitting to one another, putting others’ interests ahead of your own, that’s as a habit. As a habit, not pushing for your own way. Putting self down, as it were. Keeping self… Second. Subordinate. Yeah, second, exactly. Subordinate, yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
And very truly, the church… And I’ve already talked about big churches. But nevertheless, I’m in one. We really do emphasize at every chance you can, you know, choose on the word. Step aside for a second and make that call to a brother that just came across your mind and those kind of things. So I thank you for these scriptures because I’m supposed to bring a scripture to the day. Fisher of the Week to that. There’s about five questions here that we’re going to answer in group.
SPEAKER 07 :
All right.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I’m blessed enough to have the pastor in my group. He heads my group up. That’s great. So I can encourage others that there are churches that emphasize one anothering as Romans, and that’s actually the text of the sermon was marriage, which is, of course, a picture of the church. All right. Well, look out. But thank you, Steve.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Well, thank you for your call. God bless you. God bless you. Bye now. All right. We’re going to talk next to Paul in Sacramento, California. Hi, Paul. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 13 :
Hi, Steve. This is Paul. Yeah. I have a real quick question for you. I’m sure you probably figured this out really easy. And I ask people the same question several times, but they don’t seem to pick up on it. What’s the one component in the human body that’s keeping every human being alive? It’s not the heart that comes second.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, when you say component, I don’t know if you mean… There’s something in the body that keeps the body alive.
SPEAKER 13 :
Without it, we’d be dead.
SPEAKER 02 :
It’s the spirit. It says in James, the body without the spirit is dead.
SPEAKER 13 :
Amen, brother. A plus. You got A plus right there. That’s it. That’s why you called?
SPEAKER 02 :
To ask that question? Huh? You called to ask that question?
SPEAKER 13 :
You got it right. I ask people that several times when I’m out with this woman. They seem to can’t get it. But, yeah, you got it. I knew you would get it around time. This is elementary for you.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. So this wasn’t a question you needed the answer to. Okay. Well, thanks, Paul.
SPEAKER 13 :
You’re welcome, Steve. Thanks for your program.
SPEAKER 02 :
Have a great day. Bye now. Okay. We’re going to talk to Jonathan in Handon, Massachusetts. Jonathan, welcome.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hi. How are you doing, Steve? I’m fine, thanks. I’m pretty new at this. I’ve been listening like the past week or two. So I guess I’m just kind of seeking counsel. I have a long story, so I don’t really want to… Yeah, we don’t want to probably hear a long story. We’ve got lots of people waiting. Sure.
SPEAKER 02 :
Be as brief as you can.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, no, of course. So, you know… I’m just going to say real quick what I’m enduring. I’m enduring slander, mockery, hatred, and being called evil. I know I’ve done so many wrong things. I made myself vulnerable to some degree. I did try my best to confess to people that I may have hurt down the line. It’s like some people commend it, but For some reason, I’m being condemned for mine, like for my story, for my journey to try to make the best, you know, of life done wrong. Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Let me ask you this. Are you saying that you did some things that were worthy of censure that you’ve repented and you’re now going the right way and people are still holding it against you? Correct. Okay. So why don’t they accept the fact that you’ve repented? Are they Christians or non-Christians?
SPEAKER 04 :
To be honest, I believe they’re non-believers. Have you told them that the things that they’re holding against you are things you have…
SPEAKER 02 :
repented of and that you don’t do those things anymore or you don’t approve of those things anymore?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I have actually. And what do they say? Nothing, it’s only that they shot or just kind of like just rubbed it off, I guess, you know, brushed it off kind of thing.
SPEAKER 02 :
Are these people relatives of yours or friends or people you work with?
SPEAKER 04 :
I mean, who are these people to you? They were acquaintances.
SPEAKER 02 :
Are they people that you need to be around? Are they people that you need to be around?
SPEAKER 04 :
No, not really. But the social media is so big nowadays that everything is social media now, you know.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right. Well, I would say that, you know, you can limit your social media contacts and only include those people who are reasonable or civil. I don’t know what else to tell you because you said you don’t think they’re believers. Well, if they’re not believers, we can’t have any control over what they’re going to say or do. The Bible indicates that, well, Christians are supposed to extend grace. Christians are supposed to forgive others as we’ve been forgiven. But unbelievers can’t be expected to behave as Christians because they’re not. We can only look at what we are told to do and then do it. and realize that there’s going to be the majority of people on the planet probably are not going to be obedient to Christ, and therefore they’re going to act like people who aren’t obedient to Christ, and that includes holding grudges. Now, no Christian should hold a grudge. In Ephesians chapter 4, it says that we should not let the sun go down on our wrath. That means don’t even go to bed angry. It says you can be angry, but don’t sin. Apparently sinning would mean when you hold on to that overnight because it’s in that very context. It says be angry but don’t sin but don’t let the sun go down on your wrath. So things do make you angry, but you’re supposed to forgive. You’re supposed to release that. You’re supposed to just commit your situation to God. Now, these people who, I guess, are speaking evil of you, if they’re not Christians, we can’t really quote Bible verses to them because the Bible isn’t written to non-Christians. It’s written to Christians. It’s instructions for people who are committed to following Christ, and these people may not be. So what then? Well, that means that if you have gotten right with God, if you’ve done wrong things, and you’ve humbled yourself and repented and asked God for forgiveness, and you’ve asked the people for forgiveness, the people that you have wronged in the past, and you’ve asked them to forgive, well, know this, that God does forgive you. And Reasonable people or godly people presumably will forgive you, but maybe not everyone will. There’s a lot of people who like to hold a grudge. There’s a lot of people who like to think they’re better than you, and you’ve given them a good reason to nurture that idea, and they don’t want to give up on that. So that’s just the world we live in. And Jesus mentioned that we, even as Christians, even if we don’t do things wrong, in your case, you feel like you’ve done the wrong thing and repented, but even if we don’t do anything wrong at all, Jesus said people will hate us sometimes. He said in Luke 6, in verse 22, he says, Blessed are you when men hate you, and when they exclude you and revile you and cast out your name as evil for the Son of Man’s sake. That is for Christ’s sake. If you’re following Christ and you’re not doing anything wrong, they hate you just because you’re doing it right. He says, in that case, rejoice and leap for joy. For indeed, your reward is great in heaven, in like manner their fathers did to the prophets. Now, he’s saying that good people like the prophets in the Old Testament or the disciples now or us, if we do well, if we do good, there’s going to be a certain percentage of people who will not be happy with us, who will be hostile toward us. Now, of course, Jesus may be talking about a different kind of situation because he’s talking about people hating you because you do good. And they don’t like the good behavior that you’re committed to doing. And why wouldn’t they? Well, they wouldn’t because by you doing good, you are, as it were, condemning without words the way they live because they’re not doing good. You are saying, I don’t want to live that way, which is another way of saying you guys are living the wrong way. People don’t like to have people in their life who don’t affirm what they’re doing. So, you know, there are bad people. who will hate good people because they are good. Now, in your case, it doesn’t sound like you’re being persecuted because you are good, but you did some bad things. But on the other hand, Christians should be willing to assess the repentance of your heart about those things, and if they see that you have the fruits of repentance in your life, they should just not hold that against you. But non-Christians, no one can tell them what to do, from the Bible because they’re not submitted to the Bible. If they don’t care about following God, then it makes no sense to quote scripture to them. So we can only then quote scripture to ourself if we’re Christians. And he says if people hate you, if people cast off your name as evil, and you don’t feel it’s justified, then just rejoice. Because, after all, God knows. And his opinion of you is more important than the whole world’s opinion of you. If the whole world approved you, And God didn’t. You’re not in a good way. But if the whole world hates you and God approves you, well, then the opinions of everyone in the whole world against you don’t count for anything. God’s opinion is all that really matters. That’s why Paul said in Galatians 1.10, if I were seeking to please men, I would not be the servant of Christ. That is to say, I want to serve Christ. But I wouldn’t be able to do that if I was addicted to man’s approval of me. And there comes a time where you just have to say, well, like David said, if my father and my mother forsake me, the Lord will take me up. At least God’s on my side. And to say at least God’s on my side, I think more like at most God’s on my side. That’s the most important thing. So, you know, I don’t know what you did. I don’t know who these people are. I don’t know what they expect of you. I don’t know what signs of repentance they’ve seen or may be waiting to see in you. But when you’ve got people who just don’t like you or won’t forgive you, realize that God does forgive. And if you have repented of the evil thing that you did before and you’re now pleasing God, well, you’re going to have people who don’t. I have people who don’t like me. Can you believe it? Yeah, it’s really true. There’s people who don’t like me. And you know why? In some cases, because I did bad things. I’ve done some bad things in my life, and I repented. But there were, I can think of a few cases where, nonetheless, there’s some people who still hold something against me, which I’m very sorry to know. I wish that wasn’t true. But you can’t change it. You just move on and you do what’s right, the best you know, and live to please God and only worry about what his opinion is of you. Hey, I appreciate your call, brother. Thanks for joining us. Our next caller is John from Orlando, Florida. John, welcome. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 12 :
Hey there, brother.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hey, John. Good to hear from you again.
SPEAKER 12 :
Hey, good talking with you, brother. I’m curious, just a couple of little quickies on the early church. The main schools, the seven main schools of the early church, I don’t ever really recall hearing you referring to them necessarily as catechetical schools.
SPEAKER 02 :
schools is that a term that you’ve used yes yes they are the four six actually six six catechetical schools yeah and of course there were seven no there’s six um and and uh they’re right six six that’s right okay yeah that’s right and catechetical catechetical yeah catechetical of course refers to catechism catechizing uh teaching, teaching young Christians, you know, and there were six such schools. As I mentioned, this comes up in relation to our discussion of the different views of hell, because one of them was the Latin school of Carthage, the city of, you know, Tertullian, and they taught what we consider to be the traditional view of hell now in the Western Church, which is eternal conscious torment. But the school in Ephesus, which is where Irenaeus was, taught conditional immortality or annihilationism. And then the other four schools, and those were in Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Edessa, those schools all taught some form of origins view, which was restorationism.
SPEAKER 12 :
That partially answers my question. Interestingly enough, I came across a different list, a list that referred to them as different regions or areas, that being Alexandria, Caesarea, Antioch, the eastern Syrian, which is, you know, Edessa and Nisibis, Asia Minor and North Africa. And they recognized the one in North Africa as teaching eternal torment.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, that’s the one in Carthage. Yeah, Carthage in North Africa. Carthage.
SPEAKER 12 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 02 :
But see, the North African church was the Latin church. That is Augustine, Tertullian, these guys who lived in North Africa or were from North Africa, they were part of the, we call them Latin fathers. They read the Bible in Latin. They were in fellowship with the Church of Rome. And so we could say it was Rome, but it was actually across the sea from Rome in Carthage. But it was the Latin church.
SPEAKER 12 :
Ah, gotcha, gotcha. And did all six of them exist in the second century?
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, I don’t know what century they came into existence. I would say so. I would say either that or maybe the early 3rd century. Origen, for example, was in the early 3rd century mostly. He was born in 185, so that was the end of the 2nd century. He was a teenager when he became influential, so in the early 300s, excuse me, the early 200s, which would be the 3rd century. Now, the reason I use his life as a measuring thing is because four of them followed his teaching. So obviously his teaching didn’t exist, from him anyway, until the mid or early third century. And so I think it would be probably after that time we know about these six schools. How many of them existed before his time? I don’t know. Maybe all of them. We don’t have a lot of information about that.
SPEAKER 12 :
Okay, and one last thing. You know, I haven’t done any primary research on this. I want to. I actually plan on doing this. But when you encounter something that apparently, where apparently the entirety of the early church affirmed and taught something, if it’s different than how we understand it, if that kind of gives you pause, what I have in mind is, Like I said, I don’t have primary research on this, but it would seem that most of the church, if not all of the early church, affirmed baptismal regeneration, unless someone’s reading it wrong or something like that. Your thoughts?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, sometimes some of these doctrines, you can find statements in the early fathers that sound like they support them. though in some cases it’s not clear exactly how you’re to understand it. But I do think baptismal regeneration was a very common view in the early church. There were other things that I don’t agree with in the early church. I mean, for example, almost all of the early church fathers in the first three centuries appear to have been premillennial, and I’m not. I mean, now Justin Martyr, who was premillennial, said that there were some who were not, but we don’t know any of their names. It’s like all the church fathers we know who wrote on the subject, seem to be premillennial, and yet I don’t agree with that view because I don’t think it’s scriptural. So I don’t let the church fathers, even the consensus of them, determine fully what I’m going to accept if I can’t prove it scripturally. But, yeah, I think that was a very early held view. Hey, John, I’m sorry. I’m out of time. I got my break here, and I’ve got to go, but thanks for calling. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. We have another half hour coming up, so don’t go away. The Narrow Path is listener-supported. If you want to help us out, you can go to our website, thenarrowpath.com, and see how to do that. Thenarrowpath.com. I’ll be back in 30 seconds. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 05 :
Are you aware of the wide variety of teachings available without charge at the Narrow Path website? In several hundred lectures, Steve Gregg covers every book of the Bible individually and gives separate teachings on approximately 300 important biblical topics. There’s no charge for anything at our website. Visit us there and you’ll be amazed at all you’ve been missing. That web address again is www.thenarrowpath.com.
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome back to The Narrow Path radio broadcast. If you were listening to that announcement at the bottom of the hour, it’s a little dated. The announcer said that we have at our website, in addition to lectures going verse by verse through the whole Bible, he said about 300 topics. I’m sure it’s many, many hundreds more than that. Now, that was an announcement recorded a long time ago, and we’re always adding more, but I’m sure it’s a great number of hundreds more than that. It could be a thousand by now. So, anyway, if you’ve not been to our website, thenarrowpath.com, Those lectures are all there, and they are free to listen to. Everything there is free. So you never have to think that you’ll see something at the website and think, oh, no, it’s behind a paywall. No paywalls there. Just go and listen, take them, download them, keep them. They’re all yours. All right. That’s at thenarrowpath.com. Now, we’ve got another half hour coming up, taking your calls. We have a few lines open. If you’re interested in joining us today, the number is 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484-5737. Our next caller is Brian from Riverside, California. Hi, Brian. Welcome.
SPEAKER 10 :
Hey, Steve. Thanks. I appreciate that. I’m a new believer, Steve. I just started getting into the spiritual journey. And my question is, at my church, the church I started attending, they baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And a good friend of mine, he got saved about five, six, seven years ago, something like that. He was an alcoholic. He was a great guy. I enjoyed my talk with him. And he told me that getting baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, that baptism is no good. You have to get baptized in the name of Jesus. So that’s where I get confused. I’m not sure. Like I said, I didn’t open up a Bible until a few months ago.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right, well, the question is, are we going to obey Jesus or are we going to obey the apostles about this? Now, if Jesus said one thing and the apostles said the opposite, I would go with Jesus. On the other hand, I don’t think the apostles said the opposite of Jesus. I think they meant the same thing Jesus meant, though they used different words. Jesus, for example, said in Matthew chapter 28 and verse 19 that he says, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Now, that’s why your church does it that way. That’s why the church I grew up in does it that way. That’s why actually most Christians throughout history have done it that way. They baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. In fact, that’s a very early practice also from the early church. One of the earliest documents of the early church that’s not one of the books in the New Testament, but was a very valued document. In fact, for the first 300 years, there were some Christians who thought it should be in the New Testament. It was that well received. It was called the Didachei. And the didache is a Greek word. It means teaching. And so it’s called the teaching. The longer name of it is the teaching of the 12 apostles. And it was, though it’s not written by the apostles, it was said to be a summary of what the apostles taught, written very, very early by those who had heard the apostles and sat under the apostles. So it’s generally viewed to be a very authentic representation of early church practice. And in the dedicated, there are instructions for baptism, and it seems to be flexible. It says, you know, baptism should be in running water, if possible. But if it’s not running water, you can use still water. If you can’t, if there’s no cold water, you can use warm water. And he said, it says, if there’s not much water, just pour water over the head and say, I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Now, notice they were very flexible. Yeah, you could use this kind of water, that kind of water. There’s preferences for this, but if it’s not available, try that. They weren’t very legalistic, apparently, about the method. But it’s interesting that it testifies to that formula. It says, if you pour water over the head, just say, I baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, which is exactly what Jesus said to do in Matthew 28 and verse 19. Now, why would anyone then do it a different way? Well, because… In the book of Acts, we read of the disciples, the apostles, carrying out this commission that Jesus gave them. And they evangelized and they baptized people, just like Jesus said. But whenever they baptized people, we’re told they baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Even Peter gave that instruction in Acts chapter 2. And they said, well, what shall we do? And he said, well, repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ. So Peter said, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ later on. For example, in chapter 8 of Acts, Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch in the name of Jesus. When Paul came to Ephesus and found some people who had been baptized with the baptism of John the Baptist, which was not the same as Christian baptism, it says he told them about this, and they got baptized. Paul baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ. In the book of Acts, whenever people are baptized, it says they’re baptized in the name of Jesus or the name of Jesus Christ. And therefore, there are people, and notably those who are called oneness Pentecostals, and that may be the church your friend goes to. We sometimes call them Jesus-onlys because they say you should be only baptized in the name of Jesus, not in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But how do they decide that? I mean, if Jesus said, baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Peter said we’ll be baptized in the name of Jesus, who are you going to follow, Jesus or Peter? Or how can it be that Peter, who was a faithful follower of Jesus, didn’t do it exactly the way Jesus said it? I think the best answer to that is that the disciples did do it the way Jesus meant it. He said baptize in the name, singular, of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, And they believed, as Paul says in Colossians 2.8, that in Christ dwelt the whole fullness of the Godhead. The whole triune God. was in Jesus. And therefore the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit that’s given among men is Jesus. Peter said in Acts chapter 4 and verse 12, there’s no other name given among men whereby we must be saved. So the name of Jesus is the name in which they baptize. And I think they understood that to be obedience to what Christ said, baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They just recognized Jesus as the name. of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I could be wrong about that, but there’s a very good reason to think it’s true, since the apostles definitely followed Christ and obeyed him. And if he said you have to baptize in one formula, and they deliberately or neglectfully used a totally different formula, meaning something else, Well, then the church has been on a shaky foundation from day one because that was on the day of Pentecost, which Peter said, you know, be baptized in the name of Jesus. So what I understand is they weren’t nitpicky about the way it was verbalized. The point is that people are being baptized into Jesus. Now, Jesus is known as Jesus Christ to us, and so it’s the name that’s usually used. but that this is, no doubt, how they understood the meaning of the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then if you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that means Christ, then you were baptized in the name of Christ, even if the word Christ wasn’t mentioned. Because it’s not the word, it’s the person we’re talking about. And a person might be known by more than one name. In fact, as you look at the different cases in the book of Acts, I think sometimes it says they baptize in the name of Jesus. And sometimes in the name of Jesus Christ. And sometimes in the name of the Lord Jesus. Now those are technically different ways of saying the same thing. But apparently it wasn’t the way you said it that mattered. It was who you were being baptized into. And so… If your church baptized you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and your friend’s church baptized in the name of Jesus, in my opinion, they both mean the same thing. And therefore, it shouldn’t be a point of contention at all. I don’t think we should be legalistic about it.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay. Thank you, Steve. Appreciate you.
SPEAKER 02 :
God bless you, Brian. Thanks.
SPEAKER 11 :
God bless you. Thanks.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, Daniel from New York City, New York. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Hey, Steve.
SPEAKER 11 :
Hey, Steve. How are you?
SPEAKER 02 :
Good.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. Yeah, Steve. Today I want to ask you, you know, like I’m a Christian. I’m a born-again Christian for like over nine years already, at least nine years. And I want to say, you know, I trust in the Lord with all my heart and soul, and I have faith in him. But I think what I’m curious about is that, you know, if I believe that I’m saved and I have my trust in the Lord, does that mean that I’ll win in every area of my life? Like, I’m like, I won’t have any more difficulties in my life? Or will I solve difficulties and trials?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, have you read the Gospels at all?
SPEAKER 09 :
I read the Gospels?
SPEAKER 02 :
Have you read the Gospels, like what Jesus said and stuff?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I’ve read the New Testament, some of the Old Testament, yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, okay, so then the answer to that should be fairly obvious. I mean, Jesus said, for example, in John chapter 16 and verse 36, he said, In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. So you will have tribulation in the world. Jesus said, blessed are you when men persecute you and abuse you and so forth for my name’s sake. Okay, that sounds like it was a realistic scenario he was talking about there. Paul also said that Christians will experience tribulation. He said that in 1 Thessalonians 3. He said, I told you and you have found it to be true that you would experience tribulation. Peter, in 1 Peter chapter 1, He says, you know, we rejoice in our salvation, though if need be, we have to endure various trials, which are purifying us as fire purifies gold. So, I mean, there’s a lot of – James said that, you know, our trials work patience in us. And Peter also said, do not think it’s strange. This is 1 Peter 4. Do not think it’s strange that you encounter diverse or various trials. So when you say, well, you know, are you going to have a trouble-free life? Are you going to be victorious in all areas of life? I’m not sure what you mean by victorious. If you mean, will you be victorious over the power of sin in your life and the demonic attempts on your life, that is, on your sanctity and on your salvation, I believe there’s every reason to be victorious over those. We are given promises about that. But if you mean, will I be victorious over the economic forces of recession and high unemployment and inflation, and will I overcome all those things by being wealthy in spite of all these things? Well, the Bible doesn’t promise that. What the Bible does promise is that whatever you need, If you’re trusting Christ, if you’re seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, everything you need, he will provide for you. But that doesn’t mean you will not have, it doesn’t mean you’ll have more than food and clothing, because Paul himself said this in 1 Timothy chapter 6. He said to Timothy, having food and clothing, with these we will be content. He says, for those who want to be rich, fall into snares and such. So he said, God will provide the things we need, though what we need, as far as God is concerned, may be very different than the list of things we would make that we think we need. But there’s a difference between what we need and what we would like. And, you know, becoming a Christian means that I’ve surrendered my claim on what I would like in life. And I’ve adopted God’s plan for what he thinks I need. And he might even think I need some trials. He might think I need some suffering. But Jesus said, if anyone come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. That can be an unpleasant walk. Because Jesus didn’t come to give us your best life now. He didn’t come that is the best in the sense of the best life. in all ways that you would like, it will be the best life in the sense that you’ll live a better life as a Christian, a holier life. But it’s not going to be the best in terms of outward circumstances necessarily. And it’s not supposed to. There’s no promises that it will. So I realize there’s a lot of Christians out there, preachers, who have said, well, if you have enough faith, if you walk with God, if there’s not sin in your life, You’ll be prosperous. You’ll be wealthy. You’ll be free from sickness. You’ll be riding the wave of victory and everything in your life. I don’t see anything in the Bible that says that. In fact, I see the opposite. Jesus said, blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. It says in James chapter 2 that God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him. So the people who say That, you know, if you live right and believe right, you’ll have everything, you know, you’ll be cruising through life without trials. Those people must be reading a very different Bible. They certainly have a very different religion than the Christian religion. So, no, I can’t promise you that you will not have trials or that you will not have pain or poverty, but you will have God. And a Christian is a person who’s decided that God is enough. God is everything. I seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and I’ll let him worry about any other things I need because I trust him. He’s my father. That’s what being a Christian means. You’re born again. You’ve got a father. Faith means you trust him. So you entrust him with your circumstances as you seek only to please him, and that’s what it means to be a follower of Jesus. All right. Let’s talk to Michael from Inglewood, California. We have a line or two open if you want to call 844-484-5737. Michael, welcome.
SPEAKER 01 :
Hey, Steve. I only called because you said you had a line open, but what you were just speaking about on the baptism in Jesus’ name or in the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, I wanted to say that, no, I wanted to ask because it seems like Jesus and I are really dogmatic about it. It has to be in Jesus’ name only. Otherwise, you have to get baptized again or something like that, which shouldn’t be a problem if you, you know, you’re just getting baptized, not just getting baptized. Anyways, my question is, if there’s a name of the Father and Son and the Holy Ghost, but the Father, if his name is Jesus, then that kind of confuses me if Jesus is the Son and God is the Father. And it would almost seem like God’s name is, you know, we talked about it before, Yahweh. But how can God’s name be Jesus unless Jesus is God the Father?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, there’s a sense in which he is God in our midst. That’s why it says in Isaiah chapter 9 and verse 7, His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. This is how Isaiah reads, you know, titles for the Messiah. the mighty God, the everlasting Father, there is a sense of that being so. Now, but of course, you say you’re confused. I think it’s a very confusing thing to try to understand the Trinitarian view. And I’m not sure to what degree you’re Trinitarian, but Jesus’ only people we’re talking about are not Trinitarian. They’re what we call modalists. They believe the Father is God, but then he became the sons. but not while he was the Father. He moved from being Father to Son, and then after he ascended, he became the Holy Spirit. So you’ve just got one person who’s going through different modes, Father mode, Son mode, and Holy Spirit mode, but not all three at the same time. Now, that’s what’s called the oneness Pentecostal view, which is the Jesus-only view. The Trinitarian view is that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are all existent simultaneously within God that they’re all aspects or persons as they is the term that’s usually used in God now but they are in such a way that they share in one substance with God so the Trinity doctrine is usually stated to be God is one in substance but three in persons now if someone says I don’t understand how that can be I’m going to have to agree I can’t either I mean, I can think of all kinds of illustrations, and I’ve used some of them, but we can’t be certain that the illustrations that pop into our head really conform to the reality of the most profound and, in many respects, abstract mystery of the whole realm of reality. I don’t feel that I can understand fully the Trinity Doctrine. But I do find that Jesus, in his own teaching, both identifies himself with God and distinguishes himself from God, and both in the same chapter. For example, John 14, when Philip, the disciple, said, Lord, show us the Father, and that’s enough for us. They were not thinking of him as the Father, certainly. They knew him as Jesus, the Messiah, but they wanted to see the Father. And Jesus said, Have I been so long time with you, Philip, and you don’t know me? Do you not know that I am in the father and the father is in me? And if you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the father. Now, this is a very strange thing to say, because he’s basically saying, why would you need to see the father if you’ve already seen me? If you’ve seen me, it’s as good as seeing the father. which seems like a very blasphemous thing for a man to say, unless it’s quite true. And so he seems to identify himself as the manifestation of the Father among them. And yet later in the same chapter, he said, I’m going back to the Father, and you should be glad that I’m going back to the Father because the Father is greater than I. So he distinguishes himself from the Father in the very same chapter that he seems to identify himself with the Father. How can that be? I don’t know. I don’t know. But, you know, if I can’t explain something, that doesn’t mean it’s not true. I’ll tell you something. I don’t know anything about quantum physics. I can’t explain a single thing about it. I mean, I’ve heard it described, certain things about it, but it just makes no sense to me at all. And yet, I think if I understood all things as they really are, I would understand quantum physics. But there’s things that are simply above my pay grade. I have not studied them, or even if I did, I might not understand them. And how much more true is that of the spiritual realm and of God? You know, who transcends the universe. As far as I’m concerned, if there are things about him that are inexplicable to me, but certainly required to believe, if I’m going to take everything in Scripture seriously, well, then I’ll just go with that. I’ll just believe it. I’ll believe it. And if someone says, well, I’ll bet you can’t explain that. I’ll say, but I can’t. Do I need to? Is there going to be a test at the pearly gates that I have to give a discourse on this and explain it? I don’t think so.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay. Thanks, Steve.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right, brother. Thanks for your call. Good talking to you. All right. Let’s talk next to Jason from Ladner, B.C. Ladner. Hello, Jason. Welcome.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hi, Steve. Thank you. It’s Ladner in Delta, B.C.,
SPEAKER 02 :
Ladner, okay.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, Ladner. Thank you for your ministry. I really learned a lot. And right now I’m going through the Bible again from Genesis all the way down to Revelation. So I’m starting to list down all my questions. So starting from Genesis, but I’ll just have one question and I’ll call back for the rest. So in Genesis, there’s the… I just wanted your opinion if this place really exists right now here on earth and is there a chance that someone might go into the vicinity and see the angel guarding it?
SPEAKER 02 :
No, because some of the changes that have occurred since the story of the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve as you know, were expelled from the Garden of Eden because they sinned. And an angel, as you say, was put with a flaming sword. Not an angel, but a cherub was placed with a flaming sword blocking the way to the tree of life. But that was all before the flood. Of course, that was before everything. And the flood came and the whole earth was destroyed. Every living thing that wasn’t in the ark was destroyed. I believe there were also cataclysmic changes in the topography of the earth. I think that mountains were leveled and valleys were filled in, and I think new mountain ranges arose through the tectonic activity that was going on for that whole year of the flood. The Bible says not only the windows of heaven were open, but the fountains of the great deep were broken up, so these subterranean you know, aquifers seem to have been, you know, burst forth. There must have been earthquakes and all kinds of things. And, you know, when they came out of the arc, the earth was totally, I think, of a different, I think the topography is all different. And I don’t think any of the trees that had been alive before the flood were alive afterwards and so forth. Now, I don’t know. I wouldn’t be able to say whether the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life and all that was still there up until the time of the flood. That would be a long time. And I don’t know if it was so or if God eventually, because when man was put in the garden is to tend it. And when man was driven out of the garden, there was no one there to tend it. It would just go to weeds. It would go to seed. I think it would just become wilderness eventually. So without the man to care for it. it would do what gardens do when they’re not cared for. And so I think that within a short time, the garden would simply be another wilderness. Now, as far as the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil, it may be that after Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden, these trees had served their purpose. They weren’t needed anymore, and God may have just let them wither up and die. I don’t know. We aren’t told, but But it’s quite clear that if you go to Iraq today, which is where the Garden of Eden was, in the Mesopotamian, Euphrates, you know, Tigris, Euphrates Valley, you wouldn’t find it there now, no.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, okay, okay. So there’s a chance it might be under the water right now, so…
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I don’t know that there’s water where it used to be. I mean, you know, it wouldn’t be impossible. But I think there was such shifting of the land masses and so forth, it might not even be in the same. I mean, I don’t think there’s any garden left anywhere, under the ground or above the ground or anything like that. But as far as, you know, the trees, as far as I know, the trees in the garden were just ordinary trees, except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life. And those two trees, I assume God did not preserve since they had no further function.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. I appreciate your call. And my apologies to all those who are still waiting to talk to me. We don’t have time now to take your call. We’re out of time. But hopefully you can call tomorrow, and we’d love to talk to you. You’ve been listening to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re a listener-supported ministry. If you’d like to help us pay the radio bills… If you donate, that’s where the money goes. It goes to radio stations because we buy the time on the radio stations. We don’t have really any overhead costs to speak of, so no money is used for us. It all goes just simply by time. You can write to us at The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593, or go to our website, thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us.
