In this episode, Steve Gregg addresses listener questions ranging from personal faith challenges to theological debates. Explore the biblical perspective on whether family commitments can justify missing church events, delve into the interpretation of prophetic scripture, and understand the misconceptions around Scientology as a religious movement. Steve also reassuringly unpacks the sometimes daunting topic of salvation, clarifying common misunderstandings around losing one’s salvation. Tune in for a comprehensive and enlightening discussion that encourages maturity in faith and community engagement.
SPEAKER 02 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon taking your calls. If you have questions you’d like to bring up for conversation on the air about the Bible or Christian faith, maybe you’d like to question something the host has said, maybe you don’t agree, you’d like to balance a comment, feel free to give me a call. We’d love to hear from you. The number to call is 844-484-5737. Right now I’m looking at a board that’s got a couple of lines open for you. This is a good time to call. 844-484-5737. And I’d like to announce, I know I’ve announced a lot of travels I’ve done the last few months. Well, there’s one more trip that’s coming up. that I want to announce, and then I’ll probably be staying home for a couple months, I hope. Anyway, Seattle area, actually not just Seattle area, western Washington state in general, all the way up into Arlington and way down south of Tacoma, and lots of places in between, I will be teaching for a period of about seven or eight days, I guess. Starting on the 11th of this month. So about 10 days, 10 days from now. So from the 11th to the 18th, really, I’ll be speaking in a number of places in Washington state. If you live in Washington state and you’re one of those who likes to come out to our meetings, or maybe you’ve never done. So check our website, the narrow path.com and, and you’ll find there, um, the information about those, those dates and locations, by the way, uh, this Wednesday, no, I’m sorry, next Wednesday. It’s the first Wednesday of the month, and we’re going to be doing something different for our Zoom meeting. We have a monthly Zoom meeting on Wednesday night, first Wednesday of the month. Usually it’s Q&A, but once in a while I’m asked if I will teach on something, and it’s been suggested I speak about why I’m still a Christian. Now, I have a lecture on our website by that title, which I would love to redo anyway. Not because I disagree with anything in it, but obviously it’s nice to refresh things that were done over 15 years ago once in a while. And I’ll give my reasons why I’m a Christian at this late date in my life and this late date in history. Why would a person still be a Christian in this scientific age, this modern age? And also, why would a person in my age still be a Christian, given the kinds of things that cause many people to give up their Christian faith, many of which I have been through myself. I’ve never had a crisis of faith. I’ve been through many of the same kind of challenges that people have been through, but I don’t have any problem with my faith, and there’s reasons for that. And that’s because I’m a rational person, and I believe that the truth always has the best arguments, and I’m committed to the truth. And if people are curious… about why I would think that being a Christian is the most rational and true thing, then you may be interested. A week from, well, it’s actually the next Wednesday. This is Thursday today, so it’s about a week from yesterday. I’m going to be at our monthly Zoom meeting. It’s at 7 p.m. Pacific time. You’re welcome to join us. I’ll be speaking about why I am still a Christian. I’ll be taking questions afterwards, too. All right, now back to our business at hand, which is to take your calls. Our first caller today is Matt calling from San Diego, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path, Matt.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hey, Steve. How are you doing? Good. Question. I’m in leadership role at my church, and there’s a couple programs at church that I don’t attend due to having a large family. I tend to spend time with them on Sunday mornings, and I had a brother that approached me very upset that I’m not attending. He said that there’s never a situation in the Bible where it states that you wouldn’t miss church for family, but rather it stated that you shouldn’t forsake the assembly. I think it’s insinuated in the Bible that family is pretty important, but what would you have to say or your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, let me ask you, you’re in church leadership of some kind. What is it that you’re not attending that they’re upset about?
SPEAKER 07 :
They have a Bible class before morning services, so it’s kind of like open to anyone who wants to come to Bible class. A lot of my kids are younger, so it would be more like watching them, you know. And we’re really, I got older ones that are working throughout the week, so we don’t see each other much. But Sunday mornings, nobody works, so we’re usually together.
SPEAKER 02 :
Are you going to the worship service?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes, yes. I’m a minister in the church, so yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, so why would they suggest that you’re forsaking the assembly if you’re not?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, it’s more so, you know, if the church doors are open and there’s a function, you should be there at all times. unless there’s a health issue.
SPEAKER 02 :
No, I totally disagree with that. There’s nothing in the Bible that says you have to go to church any number of times. Now, if you have some kind of agreement with the church that you’re in leadership and you’re supposed to be every place, I would maybe want to renegotiate that because, as you say, your family is more important than going to a Bible study. You can study the Bible online or anywhere else. I mean, you can study the Bible on your own with your family. So, I mean… You don’t need to be at a Bible study if your family needs you more. You know, there are many, many people, including ministers, maybe especially ministers, whose families, they kind of lose their children because the children get the impression that the person is more committed to the activities of the church than to them. And so I think it’s very important to establish good relations with your kids and to make sure you don’t lose touch with them and Make sure they know that you’re available to them. It’s nice if your kids want to go too and for you to go to those meetings. But there’s nothing in the Bible that says you have to attend all those things. So it’s really just the expectations of the individual church. And if they feel like you agreed to be in all those situations, then if I were you, I’d go and renegotiate the deal and say, well, I’m sorry, my family is more important.
SPEAKER 07 :
There is no negotiating. Our church kind of it’s kind of old school we kind of put them up by vote so I wasn’t attending that function when they put me up in that role so they knew and the rest of the church doesn’t have an issue just this one brother he’s kind of stating facts when I can’t find them in the Bible he said even in the Old Testament it was expected for people to go to synagogue or temple I just can’t find anything of that nature there’s no reference to synagogues in the Old Testament
SPEAKER 02 :
No, the synagogues were established after or during the Babylonian exile. The law of Moses doesn’t have a word about them.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay. So temple attendance was basically just for certain festivals, feasts, and then like atoning for your sins and things of that nature. But it wasn’t like people attended every Saturday.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, they didn’t go to the temple every Saturday because they lived all over the country and the temple was only one place. Sure. Now, they didn’t have synagogues until the Babylonian exile, but there was, in the Law of Moses, a statement that God desired for Israel to have a holy convocation, which would be some kind of a gathering on the Sabbath. But I’m sure that, you know, that was Saturday. But we don’t follow the rules of the Old Testament. We follow Christ and the apostles.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right. Right, yeah. In the New Testament, he used, obviously, the Apostle Paul stating not to, I believe the Apostle Paul stating not to forsake the assembly of the brethren, and that’s what he leans really heavy on.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, you haven’t forsaken the assembly of the brethren. You just don’t go everywhere they go. If three or four guys in the church decide to go watch a movie together and they invite you and you decline, well, you’re not assembling with them. Sure. But You don’t have to go to everything people go to, but you’re certainly not. If you’re attending church regularly, you’re not forsaking the assembly. Right, yeah. So I wouldn’t worry about what some guy thinks. I mean, if it’s just him and he’s got this complaint, well, that’s his problem. Let him look to his own house. Yeah. Who is he to judge another man’s servant?
SPEAKER 1 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s true. I did lean on that the family was instituted before the church was ever instituted, but he just dismisses that.
SPEAKER 02 :
You have to realize, too, the church gatherings at a given church are not what the Bible calls the church. The church is the body of Christ. Now, what we have in our towns, including San Diego, where you live, are lots of different assembly places, lots of different, mostly they’re 501c3 corporations, where they are gatherings of some portion of the body of Christ in the region. But the Bible doesn’t say you have to go to church any particular number of times per week. So… I mean, that’s none of his business how often you go. If he doesn’t like it, let him go twice as often to make up for your deficit if he thinks that’s necessary.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, I kind of mentioned to him that I think that he maybe worships church more than Christ, per se, that the church order is more important to him than anything else.
SPEAKER 02 :
Does he have children?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
How old are they? Yes. Little or big?
SPEAKER 07 :
They’re… They’re bigger. Their oldest is probably 22. Youngest is 16.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay. Are they doing well? Are they doing well in the faith?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. I think there’s some issues there, too. But, you know, that’s – I don’t – yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay. Well, maybe his family is doing – maybe he’s doing right by his family. Tell him you have to do right by yours, too.
SPEAKER 08 :
Sure. Okay, Steve. I don’t want to take up too much time. I appreciate your opinion a lot. Okay, Matt. God bless you. You, too. Okay. Bye now.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, Marlon in Georgetown, Texas. Hey, Marlon. How are you doing? Yes, sir.
SPEAKER 13 :
I’m doing really well. Love your show. John 16, 13, Steve. But when he, the spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears, he will speak, and then the phrase, and he will disclose to you what is to come. Is this specific to the apostles? Could this be referencing maybe 70 AD or the events of the early church? Or is it for any believer, maybe it hints at agonists or prophetic ministries of some kind? Or is it just even the individual believer the Holy Spirit will speak to and disclose things to come? What do you think that means, that phrase? He will disclose to you what is to come.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right. Well, if a person gets revelations about things in the future, that would seemingly be the gift of prophecy. Now, the apostles, of course, were even, in a sense, more important than prophets, and they prophesied. But Paul made a distinction between apostles and prophets. Not everybody who prophesies has the label prophet, because Paul, of course, said you may all prophesy one by one. But he said, you’re not all prophets. Not everyone’s a prophet. Not everyone’s an apostle. These are the 12 in the upper room with Jesus. And, of course, they did have special status. They did have special roles and special privileges. And he may be speaking to them merely as such, as apostles, about how the Holy Spirit will guide them into all truth and show them things come so that they can guide the church and teach the church about these things that have come. It’s interesting that, you know, The apostles did write in the New Testament eschatological things that seemed to go far beyond anything the Old Testament said. Now, I’m not really sure that the Old Testament prophets spoke about anything beyond 70 A.D., but I think the apostles did. I think the apostles spoke about Jesus coming at the end of the world. So that was probably revealed to them when the Spirit came. I’m not sure. But, I mean, we could say this applies primarily to them. But some of the things that are promised to the apostles, well, some things that are promised to the apostles apply more broadly. Like there are other prophets Paul knew about in the church. You know, I mean, besides the apostles, there were prophets. And, you know, the Holy Spirit showed them some things to come. You mentioned, I think you mentioned Agabus. Agabus certainly was said to be a prophet, and he prophesied things that were to come. But he was not one of the apostles in this room. So we know that what he promised to the apostles could apply more broadly. In fact, when he said the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth, this may be especially applicable to the apostles. But we know 1 John 2, writing to Christians in general, says that the anointing that is in you, which of course is the Holy Spirit, will teach you all things. So there are promises that Jesus made to the apostles, which probably applied to them primarily. But that doesn’t restrict the Holy Spirit from doing some of those things through other members of the body of Christ too. So that’s kind of how I would see it. Very good. All right. I appreciate it. Thank you, Steve. Okay, Marlon. Good talking to you. Thanks for your call. Bye now. Yvette from New Rochelle, New York. Welcome to the Narrow Path, Yvette.
SPEAKER 09 :
Hello. Thank you for taking my call. I had a question. I hope you don’t think it’s a foolish question, but… When Jesus was in the temple, it’s written about in John’s Gospel and I think Luke’s Gospel, you know, ripping the money changers and throwing over tables and cleansing the temple. He’s cleansing the temple, but still that sort of behavior, why isn’t it considered sin? I mean, if we did that, we’d get arrested, right?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, actually, he didn’t whip any people that we know of. As far as we know, the whip he made was used to whip the animals and get them to leave. Once you whip the animals and get them to leave, the owners are going to chase them. So they’ll get out, too. You know, where your money is, your heart is going to be, too. So, you know, I don’t think he did anything violent to any people. But if we say, well, but he was interfering with people’s business and their property. Well, yeah, but he said they’re in the wrong place. He said, this is my father’s house. You don’t make my father’s house a place for you to do business. It’s like if I came home and a bunch of guys were setting up a business in my house without my permission, I’d probably run them out. I mean, they don’t belong in my house. This is not theirs. And the temple was not made for that. So, I mean, Jesus, as the son of the owner of the house, he said, it’s my father’s house. And they said, you know, what authority do you have to do that? Because he was the claimant. to have the authority to drive people out of the temple. Well, the authority to do it comes from him being the son of the owner and his agent. So for him to drive people out of his father’s house who were doing things that you’re not supposed to be doing there is no different than if I come home from a vacation and there’s people camped out in my house and I throw them out because they’re not invited. Let’s say they’re doing drugs and stuff, which I don’t have permit in my house. So to me, I don’t see how Jesus would be in the wrong in any way.
SPEAKER 09 :
So in a way, it’s like God’s judgment on them.
SPEAKER 02 :
He was God’s agent, of course. He’s God’s son. Let’s clean out this mess.
SPEAKER 09 :
And if I can ask a follow-up question, in John’s Gospel it seems to come rather early in Jesus’ ministry, and then in Luke’s Gospel, I think it’s chapter 19, so it’s just before he makes… Right. It’s later in his ministry. Do you think it happened twice, or did they, having different points of view… Is perhaps John’s not necessarily in chronological order?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, John is filling in gaps in the other Gospels. The other Gospels cover largely the same material as each other, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, although each has its own unique details that it gives. They pretty much follow the same pattern and outline as each other. And all of them, when they talk about the cleansing of the temple, they put it in the beginning line. of the final week, or near the beginning of the final week, of Jesus’ time on earth. Now, that’s because I believe he did that during the final week of his time on earth. Now, John, when he wrote, was not writing to duplicate anything that they had said. In fact, the only thing that John includes, that the other Gospels include, as a miracle, would be the feeding of the 5,000. Amazingly, there’s like, what, 30 miracles or something in the Gospels. The only one that all four of them record would be the feeding of the 5,000. It’s the only one that John records That’s also in the other Gospels. That and, of course, the death and resurrection of Jesus himself at the end. But John is supplementing. He’s not duplicating what the others are doing. Now, apparently, Jesus also cleansed the temple at the beginning of his ministry. And John places it really actually before Jesus’ public ministry began. He places it before the Galilean ministry, which is pretty much where the synoptic Gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, they begin the narrative. with Jesus’ synoptic, with his Galilean ministry. John begins the Galilean ministry late in chapter 4. So he places this cleansing of the temple before Jesus even began his public ministry, which I take John to be telling the truth. And the details are not the same. On this occasion, at the beginning of his ministry, he told them, don’t make my father’s house a house of merchandise, in John 2, 16. But in the other Gospels, at the end of his ministry, he accused them of making his father’s house a den of thieves. Now, there’s a house of merchandise, and a den of thieves are not the same thing. It’s a different accusation. So he just said at the beginning of his ministry that the temple is not to be a place where business is being done. It’s not a business venue. And then at the end he’s saying it’s a den of thieves. People are ripping people off. And so it seems to me these are different events, and it would also fit the general way that John typically supplements the other Gospels. He puts in details that they leave out and leaves out details that they include. And he included this first cleansing of the temple at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry to supplement the fact that the other Gospels had only mentioned the one at the end of his ministry. So I believe there were two. Yeah, the Bible testifies to two, and the details are not the same in them.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right, good talking to you. Have a good day.
SPEAKER 09 :
You too. Bye.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, let’s see here. Dick in San Clemente, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path, Dick.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, thank you, Steve. I really would like to get your comment regarding the Church of Scientology. and they have had such a campaign on television on one of the channels here. I just happened to drop by and see on the TV, and it reminded me of the days when Dr. Walter Martin, he comes out with a book, Beware of Those Who Preach Another Gospel Other Than the Gospel of Jesus Christ from Galatians. And boy, this, you know, trying to have a discerning spirit,
SPEAKER 02 :
I think they are way, way off base. Well, of course they are. They’re not a church. I mean, they can call themselves a church. Anything can call itself a church. In the Bible, the church is the body of Christ. It’s the fellowship of believers in Jesus who follow Jesus. Scientology doesn’t do that. Scientology doesn’t even believe in sin. They believe you have something you’ve accumulated called engrams, and they have a machine to help remove it. There’s no machine in the Bible that removes sin from your life. I mean, L. Ron Hubbard, the guy who started the movement, was a science fiction writer. He was a popular science fiction writer. And once, before he started Scientology, an interviewer asked him, if you had a million dollars, what would you do? Or he said, if you wanted to make a million dollars, what would you do? I think is what they asked him. He said, I’d start a church. I’d start a religion. And then he did. Now, the man was not a godly man. He was in it for the money. He was rather abusive to people in the group. The current leaders, he’s dead now, I believe, but the current leaders tend to be rather abusive, too, from many documentaries that have been made about it. All I can say is the Church of Scientology, if one even considers it religious, it certainly isn’t about Jesus. It’s not about God. So if it’s religious, it’s religious like Buddhism is religious or Hinduism is religious. Or, you know, it’s less religious than most cults are, I think. So that’s why I think about Scientology. I don’t think it’s a church at all. And I’m not sure why anyone who’s spiritually hungry would go to something like that as something to solve their spiritual quest. Except that, of course, a lot of celebrities promote it. And that’s, I think, one of the biggest things that has caused it to succeed as a business. All right, let’s talk to Joshua from Worcester, Massachusetts. Joshua, welcome.
SPEAKER 10 :
Hello. Hi. Hi, I have a question about Hebrews 10, 26 and 27. Okay. Well, that verse says,
SPEAKER 02 :
as it’s a common question people have, it says, if we sin willfully after we’ve received knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Now, the writer is writing just before 70 A.D., when the temple was to be destroyed, that fiery judgment that he’s talking about, will consume the adversaries. He’s predicting the destruction of the temple. Now, he’s writing to Jewish people. The book is to the Hebrews, to the Jews. And he’s writing to Jewish people. It’s very clear from chapter 10 earlier that they were once Christians, and they’re now leaving the Christian faith to go back to Judaism. And he’s saying, well, if you’re going to go back to where you started again, if you go back to that, and he calls that, you know, If you continue sinning after you’ve come to know the truth, well, you’re going back to something that won’t save you. There’s no sacrifice there. He said that earlier in the chapter, in verse 18, after he quotes Jeremiah 31, which mentions their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more, referring to the new covenant which Christians have participated in. In verse 18, it says, Now where there’s remission of these, that is, in the new covenant where there’s remission of lawless deeds and sins, there is no longer an offering for sin. Meaning there’s no more animal sacrifices. The temple sacrifices are of no value. You offer those because of sin, but if God has remitted your sins, where there’s remission of sins, you don’t need these sacrifices anymore. They don’t exist anymore. They’re not of any value anymore. Now the Jews still practiced them until the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., But they were of no value. And that’s what he’s saying. There’s a new covenant now. The sacrifices of the past are not recognized by God. They’re defunct. So in verse 26, just a few verses later, it says, if we go on sinning willfully, which is what these people were planning to do, go on sinning and maybe go to the temple to offer a sacrifice, which is what the Jews did. He said, no, there’s no longer a sacrifice for sins. That is, apart from Christ, there isn’t. The temple sacrifices are of no value, he’s saying. And what you’ll find back there is simply the destruction that’s coming on the whole system shortly after this was written. So that’s what he’s talking about, I believe. I need to take a break here. I appreciate your call, brother. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. We have another half hour coming, so we’re not done. Don’t go away. The Narrow Path is listener supported. If you’d like to write to us, the address is The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. Our website’s thenarrowpath.com. I’ll be right back. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 01 :
Are you aware of the wide variety of teachings available without charge at the Narrow Path website? In several hundred lectures, Steve Gregg covers every book of the Bible individually and gives separate teachings on approximately 300 important biblical topics. There’s no charge for anything at our website. Visit us there and you’ll be amazed at all you’ve been missing. That web address again is www.thenarrowpath.com.
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome back to the new Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg. We have some lines open if you’d like to call. We have another half hour ahead of us to take your calls. If you have questions about the Bible, the Christian faith, or disagreements with the host, feel free to give me a call. The number is 844-484-5737. Again, that’s 844-484-5737. Let’s talk next to Virginia from Bridgeport, Connecticut. Virginia, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Steve, I started a Bible study at my house for my grown-up kids. Great. And they started bringing friends and we grew too big that we could no longer hold it at the house and we went out to get a location. My question is, since This past week was the death and resurrection of our Lord, and we were talking about having the Holy Communion. My question is, can we have the Holy Communion before being baptized or no?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, the New Testament writers, or I should say those who were taught by them, the earliest church, the earliest Christians, they did not believe in serving communion or participation in communion among those who are unbaptized. But then they didn’t believe that a person who was unbaptized was a Christian. Because in those days, whenever they preached the gospel, if somebody became a Christian, they baptized them. So they’d never heard of an unbaptized Christian. And since communion is the communion of the saints, the communion of the church, the Christians, Yeah, they didn’t have it with those who were unbaptized. I would probably practice the same thing, although not because I don’t think that anybody who’s unbaptized is a true believer. But I do believe that in our modern church, baptism has often been neglected and not emphasized. And I believe that people who are believers should make it a priority. to be baptized right away, as soon as possible. And then they have declared themselves to be Christians. And then communion is really for them. You certainly can have communion, but I would suggest that unbaptized people, if we’re going to follow the practice of the church from the earliest days, would be that they would not participate in it.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s good, because they all want to be baptized.
SPEAKER 1 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
So that means, yeah, we’ll be fine. Thank you so much, Steve. I love your program.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you, Virginia. God bless you. Thanks for your call.
SPEAKER 04 :
God bless you, too. Thank you. Bye.
SPEAKER 02 :
Bye now. And that’s great that you started Bible study in your home for your kids, and it gets to be too big. Wonderful. And now, yes, they all want to be baptized. Better still. Excellent. All right. That’s a great story, sister. Diana from Gainesboro, Tennessee. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, hello. Excuse me. Beth, do I need to… You’re off speaker. Okay. I had to get my… I had to get off speaker, and I think I have my thoughts together. The Bible describes the faithful as receiving new bodies, you know, spiritual bodies upon Christ’s return, and I think that’s mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15 and maybe 2 Corinthians. My question is, will the lost, anywhere in the Bible, does it say that they receive new bodies?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, apparently they do, because the Bible speaks about both the righteous and the unrighteous being raised from the dead. And obviously many unrighteous people, as well as righteous, are decayed into dust. There’s ever… Yeah, so if they’re going to be raised from the dead, that dust is going to have to come back together again, you know? And so, you know, it says in John 5, verses 28 and 29, Jesus said, Do not marvel at this. The hour is coming when all who are in the graves will hear his voice, and shall come forth, some to a resurrection of life and some to a resurrection of condemnation. So there’s a moment in time coming when everybody in the grave is going to come out. and some are lost and some are saved, but they’ll all come out anyway to face the judgment. Paul spoke this way about it too in Acts 24, verse 15. He said he believed there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and of the unjust. Now, resurrection of the dead means the bodies stand up alive again. That’s what resurrection means. So, the unbelievers will have bodies. Now, on the other hand, I don’t know that they will have immortal bodies. The immortality is promised only to those in Christ. The Bible says this is the message that God has given to us, eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life, and he that has not the Son of God has not life. So those who don’t have Christ, I don’t think will have immortal bodies, but they will have some kind of bodies. They’ll come back out of the graves to stand judgment. I believe, you know, even if they’re not mortal bodies, that after they’ve raised, they’ll probably be conscious and alive long enough to be punished for their crimes. And then perhaps they’ll be annihilated. I don’t know. I mean, there’s different theories about that, all of which can be supported from some passages of Scripture. So I don’t know really how that will come out. But the basic question, will unbelievers be raised alive? Yes, they will. But that Christians will be raised in immortal bodies, you’re correct. 1 Corinthians 15 says that that is the case. But the state of the bodies of those who are lost who are raised, they’re raised to stand judgment and then they’re cast into the lake of fire. We don’t have any statements that their bodies are immortal or that they won’t ever die or be annihilated or whatever. That’s not something the Bible goes into detail about. So that’s, I guess, all we know. All right. Thank you for your call. Let’s see here. Our next caller is Scott from Sacramento, California. By the way, we have a line that just opened up. If you’d like to call, the number is 844-484-5737. Scott, welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 11 :
Hey, Steve, thanks for all you do. I’m going to do my question up front, which you always like to hear from people. Is the embracing of Calvinism and Reformed theology kind of understandable in the light of man kind of embracing their part in salvation too much. I remember, you know, history back in the 16th century when this first arose, they came out of Catholicism, like all the things, sacraments, all the things that man must do and everything, and so it’s kind of understandable. And today, I think we’re maybe seeing the same thing. It’s like you’ve got to do the sinner’s prayer, and it’s all man-focused, so… I was just wondering your thoughts on that, and I just had a quick follow-up question on that real quick. Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, yeah, Calvinism, for those who don’t know, emphasizes that you can’t do anything to get yourself saved in any way, partly because they teach that God has ordained before you were born whether you’ll be saved or not. That’s something you can’t change. You were born either as one of the elect, which means you will inevitably be saved, or you’re born as one of the reprobate, which means you inevitably will not be saved. There’s no transitioning after you’ve been born from the category of reprobate or elect. Those choices, according to Calvinism, were made before you were born, and you just live out the destiny that God foreordained for you. Now, the Bible doesn’t teach that, but there are verses in the Bible that some people quote as if they teach that. And this is the basis, these verses are the basis of the Calvinist idea. Now, what they would say is if you actually say what the Bible says, namely that you’re saved by faith, you’re saved when you repent and believe. If you believe that, they’ll say, no, you’re taking credit for your own salvation because you believed and you repented. What the Calvinists would say is if you believed and repented, it’s because God made you do that. God brought you to life spiritually and gave you, or I would say, according to their view, imposed upon you repentance and faith, which you never would have wanted when you were unelect. I mean, I should say before you were regenerated. Before you were born again, you didn’t want to. And unregenerate people don’t want to repent or believe, they say. And they can’t want to. But according to them, if you’re one of the elect, then God changes you from a person who doesn’t want to to someone who does want to. He just kind of shifts your will so you don’t make the choice. And then he makes you a believer. He makes you repent. And, you know, again, he does that only for the people who are elect. And they were elect before they were born, before the foundation of the world, according to them. So this idea is that only the elect… can believe and they can only believe because God makes them pretty much believe because of election and irresistible grace and some things like that. So is that what the Bible teaches? No, no, the Bible doesn’t teach that. Calvinists think it does. Anyone’s welcome to check my lectures, God’s Sovereignty and Man’s Salvation, where I look at all the Calvinist scriptures and discuss them from both sides. And, you know, anyone who lists those lectures will have to, if they’re honest, will have to recognize it. The Bible really doesn’t teach those things. It’s an ideology that people buy into. And then, of course, they form the scriptures to conform to their ideology. The scriptures don’t teach these things. So, anyway, they would say, well, if you feel that you have the power to repent and to believe, then, of course, you’re saying that you’re doing it. You’re saying that that’s something God didn’t do. that God, it’s not just due to election and irresistible grace. They’d say you’re taking too much credit. So for people who come out of a religion that’s very legalistic, as the reformers came out of Roman Catholicism, for example, you mentioned, it might be a very appealing thing to realize that, well, I don’t have to do any of these things. In fact, I can’t. And then, of course, they realize that, or they’re told anyway, that it’s a very humble thing to say that you’re so evil, so depraved, that you can’t possibly want to be saved. It might sound very humble, but a false humility isn’t humility. Humility is looking at things as they are and not giving yourself more credit than you should. But the Bible tells us you have a responsibility to repent and believe. So if you do it, you did it. If you don’t do it, you didn’t, and that’s what you’ll be judged by, whether you did or not. So maybe Calvinism appeals to those who feel like it’s the most humble way to be. Although it’s an amazing thing when you deal with Calvinists. A lot of them don’t seem very humble at all. You think that they’re taking the humble position, and they’re saying that we’re the ones who are proud. But when you talk to them, they sound like they’re the elite. I mean, the elect. To them, the elect, they are the elite. And they act kind of like they think of themselves that way sometimes. Not all Calvinists do, by the way. There are humble Calvinists. But the ones that really are out there pushing it often don’t seem very humble at all. I mean, they might hold to what they call a humble theology. But it’s not enough to hold to a theology that identifies itself as humble. You pretty much have to be humble in order to receive grace. God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. So maybe you’re right. I mean, that might be one reason why so many people are drawn to Calvinism. I don’t think most people are, but a lot of people are.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, thank you. Just a quick follow-up question to that. So do you think God is… like we’re created in this nature and we were taught to love everyone by his commandments, but we don’t actually like everyone. And I’ve heard you teach that we don’t understand why people or God draws some people more strongly with dreams and visions and people being put into their life. So can we say there’s a, like a kinder, gentler, I don’t know, uh, The Reformed theology where God draws some people more strongly and those are maybe the elect? I don’t know. I’m just kind of thinking out. Because we have this, you know, in our own lives where we would go to our deathbed for certain people, but we don’t like everybody, so we wouldn’t do that for everyone. Does that make sense? Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I think the statement makes sense. I’m not sure exactly how you’re connecting it with the election issue. I would say it is true that some people clearly are in circumstances from birth that are more conducive to their being able to become Christians. I, for example, and my siblings, were born into a great Christian home where we were You know, our parents modeled godly Christianity. We were taught the truth from our youth. And all of us are serving God and have been since we were young. But there are people who are raised in homes like that that just make their own choice to not follow what their parents taught them and so forth. So, I mean, being born into privileged circumstance might give you a leg up, give you a head start, as it were. That makes it easier for you to be a Christian, but it certainly doesn’t guarantee it. On the other hand, there are people born in tribal villages in the jungle that have never heard the gospel, but some of them seek after God. And I, in my opinion, I’ll bet they find him. You know, we find Cornelius in the Bible was a pagan, a pagan Roman, but he sought after God and God sent Peter to him to evangelize him. So, He was born in very unfortunate circumstances with reference to believing in Christ, because he was, from his youth to an adult life, a pagan. But lots of people who were raised pagans get saved. So, yeah, I don’t know why God gives some people more advantages and others fewer, but I believe that God gives the same reward to those who make good use of of whatever advantage they have and the same penalty for those who do not make good use of the advantages they have so it still rests on the individual no matter what God does favorable in their circumstances their individual choice is what God’s going to judge them for and again the Bible says God he gives grace to the humble now being humble is your choice you can humble yourself under the mighty hand of God uh And the Lord will lift you up, the Bible says. Or you can be proud. Proud people, God resists. Humble people, God gives grace to. So it’s not really even how much you know or what advantages you have. It’s a question of whether you humble yourself before God and seek him and put your trust in him. So, yeah, I can’t really argue one way or the other about why. You know, God chooses to give certain circumstances that are beneficial to some. But to some who receive them, these become their condemnation because to whom much is given, of them much is going to be required. So those who have had greater circumstances and still choose to be proud and rebellious against God, well, they’re worse off than if they hadn’t been given them, I think. So anyway, those are some thoughts. You know, there’s many mysterious things that we’re not told. or at least are not explained fully to us. Andrew in Greenville, North New Hampshire. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hi. I had a question. I had a couple brothers that basically split apart in the church because of a question of losing your salvation. What a shame.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
One said, hey… You know, you might be able to. And the other one was like, nah, man, that’s impossible. And I think, I don’t know. So I’ve, and I don’t know how I’d judge that. So I was wondering what you thought.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. Yeah, God’s not going to judge people on whether they believed they could have lost their salvation or not. he’s going to judge them on their actions. So if a man believes he cannot lose his salvation, but he lives obediently for Christ, well, how can that be bad? I guess it could be bad if by his believing you can’t lose your salvation, he influences others who then believe that and go off and live in sin hoping to be saved. The Bible makes it very clear, those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. So the question is what you do. Now, lots of people are in heaven today who believed that they couldn’t lose their salvation. Now, I don’t believe that doctrine is correct. I don’t believe the Bible teaches that you can’t lose your salvation. But whether you believe it or not, a Christian is someone who follows Jesus. For example, I can’t imagine losing my salvation for the simple reason that I can’t imagine ever losing my faith. I’ve been a Christian since I was a child. I’m 72 years old. I’ve studied every, you know, every objection that people have to Christianity. They’re all empty. The objections are empty. The evidence is solid for being a Christian. I can’t even, I mean, I know too much about these things to ever not believe them. The people who don’t believe them, I feel, simply haven’t studied them. Or if they have studied them, they haven’t been honest with the evidence because they probably don’t want to believe. But the point is I can’t even imagine ever coming to places of anything happening that would make me not believe. But while I don’t believe I’ll lose my salvation, I believe I could if I wanted to. And yet, whether I believed it or not, I won’t be judged by whether I thought I could lose it or not. I’ll be judged by whether I actually depart from Christ or am faithful to Christ. And a man… Two men can believe differently on that subject and still both serve Christ. And why would people divide over it? Now, in my opinion, the one who decided to divide from the other over it is the one who’s not obeying Christ. Because Christ said, love one another as I have loved you. Among the 12 disciples, there were men who disagreed with each other on things. Certainly there was one who had been a collaborator with the Romans as a tax collector. And there was one who had been a zealous, which is a rebel against the Roman authority. But they were both in the same group of disciples. And, you know, you don’t have to agree about everything to be a brother or a sister to someone. And Jesus said you’re supposed to love one another, not agree with each other on every point necessarily. It’s great if we do. And it’s great to see everything alike. But people just don’t. So the next question is, okay, if they don’t see it alike, how are they treating each other about these differences? If the answer is not good, then one of them is not really doing well with God at all, even if he’s the one with the right doctrine. You can have all the right doctrines and not be doing well with God and might even be living under his anger because you’re not loving your brother, because you’re not obeying God. God’s not going to judge you by whether you had all the right opinions. He’s going to judge you by what you did. Everything in the Bible that speaks about judgment says everyone will be judged by his works. Because your works show if you’re a follower of Christ or not. And following Christ is what’s required. What you think about, for example, whether you could stop following Christ or not, is a separate issue. And much less important if you love Jesus. And that’s, of course, what is going to distinguish you as a Christian. You love Jesus and you love everyone he loves. Well, then, you know, you might think, you could possibly lose your salvation, or you might think you couldn’t possibly lose it. But if you love God and follow God, I mean, what’s the matter with what you thought about that? Unless, of course, you lead people astray. If you find somebody who has fallen away from his early profession of faith, and you tell him it’s okay because you’re once saved, always saved, well, then, of course, you’re causing someone to stumble, and you might as well have a millstone put around your neck and be thrown into the sea, Jesus said. So you don’t want to ever give anyone permission to live in sin because God doesn’t. So those would be, I guess, the long and the short of it. Whoever divides from another brother over a disagreement about that, if they’re both living for Christ, shame on whoever it is that’s deciding to break off from the other. It shouldn’t be a matter that Christians can’t live together peaceably about. Okay, let’s see. Todd from Sacramento, California. Hi. Hi.
SPEAKER 12 :
I really appreciate your show, bro. I have a question. I think it’s in Galatians 1, and Paul’s talking about the gospel he’s teaching. He says that he didn’t learn this. He wasn’t taught this from man. So I think his exact words are it was a revelation. So does this mean that he was – taught by the risen Christ himself? I mean, did he sit down with him? Did Christ appear to him and tell him all about it? Or was it like a dream, like a revelation type thing? Or is that clear?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, your question is clear, but the answer is not clear in Scripture. Paul doesn’t tell us how the revelation came to him. We know that he saw Jesus on the road to Damascus, but we don’t have any reason to believe that the entire gospel was explained to him on that occasion. We know that he lived his life in communion with Christ after that point and no doubt received lots of insights through Revelation. Now, whether you had dreams, visions, you know, God spoke to him, Jesus appeared to him and gave him these things, we’re not told any of that. Any of it is possible because later in his life we do read of him having visions. We do read of Jesus appearing to him and so forth and revealing certain things. But these are later. This is after he already understood and was preaching the gospel. So he’s talking about an earlier time in his life when Christ revealed the gospel to him. And the reason he says that he did not receive it from men is because there were false teachers in Galatia kind of undermining Paul and saying that he was just, you know, he wasn’t one of the 12. He hadn’t really, you know, learned from Christ himself. He had just learned that secondhand from the other apostles and didn’t even get it right himself. But he said, no, I didn’t learn this from anyone else. I got it directly from Christ, just like they did. Only the difference is that they got it while Jesus was with them on earth. He got it from Christ after his resurrection through different forms of revelation. And you want to know what kind. I don’t know what kind. But, again, in Paul’s later life in the book of Acts, we see that he has dreams, visions, you know, appearances of Christ to him on various occasions. And even, very possibly, just while you meditate on Scripture, God may reveal things to you. I know he has, I would say he has to me, just meditating on scripture, just the Holy Spirit’s given an insight I had never considered before. But then when I checked it out and searched it out, it proved that it’s exactly what the Bible said. So I don’t know about Paul, how his insights came to him, but it may be that God just directed him in his searching of the scriptures. Because everything Paul taught can be found in the Old Testament scriptures. But everything Paul taught could be in the Old Testament Scriptures too. It’s when the Holy Spirit guides you in your study and meditation of the Scriptures that he often reveals things to you that you would have missed. And that may be how Paul got it too. I honestly don’t know. He quoted a lot of Scriptures later on in support of what he said. So it may be that the Holy Spirit just illuminated him about those Scriptures and that was the revelation he got. Otherwise, I don’t know. And it could be all of the above. We just aren’t told. I appreciate your call, but we’re out of time. Thanks for joining us. You’ve been listening to The Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg. We’re listener supported. If you’d like to help us pay the radio bills, you can write to The Narrow Path, PO Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. Or you can go to our website, which is, everything’s free there, but you can donate at thenarrowpath.com. Let’s talk again tomorrow. God bless.
