Listeners are drawn into a discussion about the significance of modern-day apostles and the authenticity of their claims, providing a thought-provoking look into how to perceive such declarations. Steve also shares stories of miraculous healings and spiritual experiences, shedding light on the unpredictability of divine intervention and encouraging listeners to place their trust in God’s overarching plans. Whether it’s learning how to keep family spiritual practices alive or discerning the motives behind self-proclaimed religious leaders, this episode offers a blend of wisdom, scriptural understanding, and practical advice for navigating complex faith-related issues.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon with an open phone line for you to call if you want to call in with questions you have about the Bible or about the Christian faith or the Christian life. I’ll be glad to hear your questions and talk about them with you if you have a difference of opinion from the host. Maybe you’ve heard something else that’s been said on a previous occasion and You disagree and want a balanced comment, feel free to give me a call. The number to call is 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484-5737. And let’s see, I’m going to be speaking tonight about a half hour after the program ends. So if you don’t know about this already, it might be a little late notice. The program ends in an hour, and about a half hour after that, I’m speaking in Hamtramck, I don’t know how to pronounce it, Hamtramck, Michigan. It’s an unusual spelling. I mean, that’s how it’s spelled, but I’m not sure how to spell it. But it is in the Detroit area, and if you’d like to join us, you can find information about that meeting at our website, thenarrowpath.com. under announcements. And, of course, I’m going to be speaking in Michigan a couple more times before I go down to Indianapolis. I’ll be speaking in Indianapolis on Friday. I’ll be speaking in Illinois on Saturday and Sunday. If you’re in those areas and want to find out where I’m speaking, that’s fine. You can go to our website. It’s all listed. We’d be glad to meet you there. I will be speaking tomorrow night in Port Huron, Michigan. And the next day and night I’ve got some meetings in Imlay City where I was actually speaking yesterday. So I’m going back there. And then I’ll be on Thursday near Toledo, right next to Toledo, Ohio, but in Michigan at Temperance, Michigan. So Anyone who’s in any of those areas, or will be, those are places that I’m going to be speaking. And if you’re interested, we’d love to have you join us. You can get all the information about that you want from our website, TheNarrowPath.com, and under the tab that says Announcements. I’m going to go to the phones now, and we’ll talk to Isaiah from, I don’t know how to pronounce this, Oslo, Missouri. I’m probably putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable. But how are you doing, Isaiah? Hey, Steve. It’s O’Fallon, Missouri. O’Fallon. Okay, gotcha. O’Fallon with an F. O’Fallon. Okay, yeah, my call screener heard it wrong and wrote it wrong. I’m sorry.
SPEAKER 12 :
It’s okay. Hey, Steve, I know my ABCs and 123s, and I’m a spiritual insider.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey, you’re the second person who’s called me recently who could say that.
SPEAKER 12 :
My wife and I were just absolutely cracking up in the car. We listen to your show every day. But I do have a serious question, but I promised her I’d call and tell you and say that on the phone.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I try not to laugh at callers, but sometimes it’s really strange.
SPEAKER 12 :
Forgive me, but that was just crazy. So my question is, Does it matter when someone is not a Christian and they have an unbiblical divorce? You know, it’s not for adultery. It’s for they’re unhappy and they divorce. And then, you know, let’s just say the man converts to real Christianity, really serves Jesus, but wants to remarry. I have so many people around me. This is not my problem, by the way. I’m happily married. But I have so many people around me saying that it the biblical rules of divorce don’t apply as long as they weren’t a Christian when they had their unbiblical divorce. But, Steve, when I read the New Testament passages, it doesn’t seem to address post or pre-regeneration. It seems to be it’s a covenant no matter if you’re a follower of Christ or not. And I was just curious on what you thought about divorced people remarrying unbiblically post-regeneration.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. I’m with you on that because, I mean, marriage is a covenant. It’s like a contract. If you make a contract with somebody before you’re a Christian, and then you become a Christian, that doesn’t exempt you from keeping your contract. If anything, it makes you more conscientious about keeping it because you’re now concerned about being honest and truthful and not cheating somebody because you’re a Christian. So the fact that you made a promise to somebody and they believed you and they changed their whole life in order to be with you, and this was all before you were a Christian, and you’re now a Christian, and you think, well, I don’t have to keep that contract anymore. Well, that doesn’t make much sense to me. It seems to me like Christians ought to be the ones who keep their contract better than anyone else. Now, I will say this. There are people in the situation you described who got an unbiblical divorce, and they’ve later become Christians, but in the meantime, their former spouse… has also remarried or has been with other people. And therefore, to my mind, that provides them with the grounds. Because if their spouse has gone on to sleep with other people or whatever, that’s sort of like, well, now you kind of do have the grounds. I mean, it was possibly your fault that they did it. But I don’t think you’ll be punished the rest of your life because of that. I think that the fact that you’re If your ex-spouse has gone on and started their life or been with other people since the time, it means they were not waiting for you to come back. They’ve given up. They’ve released you from any obligation to be there. I mean, that’s what I think adultery does. I think it breaks the covenant. But that’s true, I think, also of Christians. I think that if a Christian got an illegitimate divorce when they were a Christian or before they were a Christian, And they’re now repenting of that. And they’re wondering, what restitution would I have to make? You know, the answer would have something to do with what did your ex-spouse do since then? I mean, has it been years? Have they gone on and gotten in another marriage? Have they been with other men or whatever? I mean, that would be a factor. But yeah, I don’t think the fact that someone gets saved somehow cancels out the commitments they made before they were saved. It’s like if you enter into a contract to buy a car, and, you know, it’s a, let’s say, a five-year contract, and two years into the contract, you become a Christian, and you say, well, I don’t have to keep that contract now. Well, why? How does becoming a Christian give you permission to be dishonest?
SPEAKER 12 :
Right. No, I agree, and this is probably not quite a fair analogy, but we don’t look at unchristian people and say, well, it’s okay if they murder and steal, and this, that, you know, the there are still consequences to sins that are forgiven. And to me, although God will forgive divorce, I think we still should be in the business of following the hard rules of Christianity, and that unfortunately puts some people in the situation of not being able to remarry. Thankfully, this is not my problem, but it is a problem for someone close to me. But Thank you for your time, Steve. We love you so much, man. I’ve learned so much from you, and it’s so nice to talk to you. Have a blessed day.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I appreciate your call, Isaiah. God bless you, too. Thanks for joining us. Okay. Bye-bye. All right. Bye now. Okay, I’m going to talk to David from Vancouver, British Columbia. Hi, David. Welcome to The Neuropath. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you very much, Steve. I just have a question. Can you hear me okay? Okay.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, very clearly.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, yeah. I just wondered if you’d heard of the Zion Christian Mission Center. I don’t think so. Where is it? There’s several locations.
SPEAKER 05 :
Is it like a denomination or an organization?
SPEAKER 09 :
Organization, but with kind of cultish characteristics. There’s a fellow by the name of… I’ll find it here. Okay, so it’s a front group organized by Shincheon Niji. I think that’s South Korean possibly a name, but S-H-I-N.
SPEAKER 05 :
So it’s a cultic Korean group. There are a lot of cultic Korean groups. By the way, there’s a lot of Christian Koreans, I mean, who are not cultic. But South Korea, of course, had a huge revival back in the 80s. to the point where the four largest churches in the world were in Seoul, Korea. And the time came where I think about a quarter of the population of South Korea were attending church in concerns of Christians. And whenever you get that many people rushing into the Christian faith, you’re going to get all kinds of people trying to exploit those new Christians. They’re like wolves that want to leave the sheep after themselves. And cults, of course, proliferated. and still do in South Korea. A lot of them have come over here. But I have not heard of that particular name you mentioned, but if you say it’s kind of cultic and it’s from South Korea, it kind of fits a pattern. But I’m not trying to broad brush all the Korean Christian movements. I’ve spoken at quite a few Korean churches, actually.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. Thank you. There’s a 93-year-old man, possibly older now, called Lee Manhee, L-E-E, and then last name M-A-N-H-E-E. So they just have – they focus heavily on the Book of Revelation. And I’ve even heard from one of their members or two of their members about – John being the writer of Revelation, and there’s a John now presently alive that salvation is just about through him.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, well, they’re obviously a non-Christian cult. By the way, obviously there’s some right-on churches that have the word Zion in their name, but a lot of times cults, for some reason, choose the word Zion to be in their name, too. But seeing a group that says Zion something doesn’t make them a cult. It just happens that a lot of relatively unknown cults, small things, they choose that name for their group. But it’s probably, I mean, there’s lots of different ones that would. But emphasizing the book of Revelation is also something that’s kind of funny because, I mean, obviously a lot of churches focus on the book of Revelation, I think, more than they should in many respects. Yeah. But like the Jehovah’s Witnesses really are fond of revelation. A lot of cults do because they realize revelations are really hard to understand. But if they’ve got a guy who’s supposed to be, you know, One of the two witnesses was supposed to be John returned. I mean, they can make any kind of weird claims. Some of them claim to be Jesus come back. There’s actually a Korean cult that claims that their leader is Jesus returned. And so, I mean, yeah. And so many people have no idea what Revelation is about. So it’s easy to say, well, our guy knows. And then, of course, whatever they interpret it to mean supports their group is the only true group. Yeah, it definitely sounds like a cultic group. I’m not familiar with them. Okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
No, that’s very helpful. And just a warning, they’re having quite a stronghold in the Lower Mainland, and one of their recruitment practices is worship nights that are just very kind of Christian, but that’s where they’re signing up new Christians, sometimes many young people, and those that aren’t maybe grounded in the Word themselves, they’re just churchgoers in local churches, and they’re starting up doing their Bible studies with them, inviting them in, And it’s kind of secretive, and they don’t until later on.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I don’t really need to know all that stuff. Every cult has those features, actually. You know, back in the 70s, I went, sure. I visited Meriden, Connecticut in the mid-70s, and there was a cult leader there named Julius and his wife, Joanna, and he claimed that he was Jesus returned. This was not a Korean group. This is just a… you know anglo guy that but he claimed he was jesus his wife joanna was the holy spirit and he had uh maybe two or three hundred disciples and most of them looked like hippies because this was during the jesus moment times and so they’re kind of a uh a counterfeit of the jesus moment and and i you know i wanted to check them out and i went to one of their meetings uh because i’d never heard of i knew they were a cult i had never heard of them or what they believed except that julius was jesus and um You know, and their worship, they were singing the same songs we sing. You know, we sing at Calvary Chapel. And they just sing the same songs. You would have thought you were at a Calvary Chapel during the worship time. But Julius had 12 apostles. And before he ever came out on stage, I was just sitting near the back in a room full of maybe 300 people. And one of his apostles came up. And it was a visitor’s night. So, I mean, I was a visitor. And one of his apostles came up to me and said… what are you here for? And I said, well, I’m just checking things out. He said, no, but what are you really here for? I said, no, really, I’m just here to check things out. And he said, well, you’re quenching the spirit here. I said, well, would you like me to leave? He said, yeah. So I left. And I didn’t know how I was quenching the spirit since I wasn’t doing anything. But anyway, the spirit I was quenching, I think, was the spirit of Julius, so I’m not too upset about that. But anyway, his claims are very similar to many others. I don’t need to know all the details of any cult. As soon as you find out they’re that far off on one thing, you don’t need to think any more about them. Okay. Thank you, Steve. Appreciate your time. All right, David. God bless you. Emmanuel from Laredo, Texas. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Emmanuel, are you there? If you’re not, I’m going to have to move on. Hello. Yes. Okay. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hello. Good afternoon, Steve. Thanks for taking my call. Steve, I’ve got a question. Listen, my mother is, you know, dysfunctionalist, and I had changed my mind from the last month that I had been studying the Bible when I showed you lectures. So, we have a You know, some days we have some internal, with the family, some studies of the Bible. So, you know, we have been studying the last days, right? So we have different ideas. We have been in several discussions. So my question for you is how I can address this situation when my mother is teaching something very different that I believe?
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, well, so your mother’s dispensational, and you’re not. So that disagreement is causing some arguments, I guess, it sounds like you’re saying. And you’re asking me how do you handle a situation like that. Well, you honor your mother. You know, I mean, you can disagree about something like that and still be a Christian. You can both be Christians. There are good Christians who are dispensationalists, and there are good Christians who are proponents. like myself, not dispensationalists. And, um, it’s always kind of, well, I was going to say it’s a sad thing when the family’s divided over something like that, but it’s not that, not that big a deal. There are much bigger problems that could exist even theologically between members of a family. And, uh, honestly, the differences, uh, over something like that in a family may be something that God has orchestrated so that, uh, you know, the conversations will take place and maybe she’ll, maybe she’ll come around, you know, uh, You would have to – what I would – I mean, I’d make sure you’re doing this. This is kind of what I assume you are doing, but if you’re not, you should be. When you have these conversations, sit down and discuss specific passages and say, okay, on this point that we disagree about, Here’s one of the passages that you believe is teaching your point. But let’s look at this context. Let’s compare it with this other similar passage on the same subject. Let’s study out the Bible. Now, I think you said that you’re listening to my lectures. If you listen to my lectures, you’ll find that that’s precisely what I do in my lectures. I bring up the scriptures that they use. And show, you know, in the context what those scriptures mean. And I have to say that’s, to my mind, the most effective way to change someone’s mind. But you can’t be sure that you will. Especially, for example, if she’s going to a dispensational church. A lot of times people… You know, they trust their pastor more than they trust their own children. You know, I mean, she’s your mom after all. She taught you probably how to eat with a spoon. She doesn’t think you’re the one who’s going to teach her how to understand the Bible, especially if she goes to a church and has a pastor who thinks you’re wrong. And I’m assuming that’s the case. So I would say… Don’t insist upon a result where she comes around and sees things your way. It doesn’t have to be. You don’t have to argue about these things. Now, I can see how some issues would become contentious between a dispensationalist and a non-dispensationalist. These days, especially questions about the nation of Israel are big topics of controversy across those aisles. But the truth is you don’t really have to make that the issue. Obviously, dispensationalists do make Israel the issue. But I would just suggest you make Jesus the issue. You know, I mean, if something, you know, if she’s getting all obsessed with Israel, I’d say, well, let’s, okay, let’s, why don’t we think about Jesus? He’s the center of our attention, right? We’re supposed to be putting Jesus at the center. Let’s not bump him out of the center of our attention by sticking Israel in there instead. We shouldn’t allow ourselves to be distracted from what being a Christian means. Being a Christian doesn’t mean you have a certain opinion about Israel. Being a Christian means you have a certain commitment to Jesus Christ. Obviously, I would not advise you against arguing with her. Arguing with her may be a good thing if it’s done politely, if it’s done cordially, and if you’re both willing to sit down and open the Bible. and look carefully about the scriptures on everything. But if that’s not working out, then I’d just say, eh, don’t fight with your mom. Don’t fight with your mom about it. You know, if she dies as a dispensationalist, you know, there’s a lot of dispensationalists in heaven. Well, not anymore. They’re not anymore, but they were when they were died. A lot of dispensationalists, uh, when they died, they were dispensationalists. Of course, uh, when you go to heaven, you get disabused of your mistakes, but, uh, And I say that slightly in jest, but I mean, I think that’s true. But it doesn’t matter. What I’m saying is it doesn’t matter all that much whether she lives and dies as a dispensationalist. It may be that she almost, I mean, I don’t recommend people being wrong for the sake of fellowship with their church or whatever. But if they don’t see that they’re wrong, it may be that it will turn out for the better because if she goes to a dispensational church, and she changes her mind, she might get kicked out of her church. I mean, that’s happened to people. And if that happened, she might not have any fellowship. She might have some great relationships in the church. So I would advise very much against making that a divisive matter. But on the other hand, it’s very possible to discuss and even debate Scripture without it being divisive, as long as we keep in mind that Jesus is the center and we both have that in common. And that’s really all that matters. Brother, I hope that works out for you and your mom. And if it doesn’t, just respect her and let her believe what she believes. You don’t have to argue it. Not important. Not that important, anyway. Thank you for your call. We’re going to talk to Nadia in Whitefield or Whitfield, Maine. Probably Whitfield. It’s like George Whitfield, right? No, it’s Whitefield. Whitefield, okay. It’s spelled the same as Whitfield. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 04 :
Um, so I started reading the Bible about four years ago with my husband and we’re doing, you know, our daily studies and stuff. And my family has seen a big change with us, which I think is beneficial for everybody. But my dad suffered a silent heart attack, um, in late April and he put him on life support and it gave us an opportunity as a family for my husband and I to express the power of prayer and, um, He was not given any chance to live. Basically, we were told to kind of let him go. But we got the tube out. And anyways, we made an agreement with him that they would try. They said it would be a very low percentage for him to make it off the table. And he did it. He made it off the table. It took two months to get him out. And glory be to God, he’s here. What I want to know is that was a really important time for our family. And I think my husband and I were able to show… our family what it means to really get down and pray. And now that my dad’s home, he’s doing good and he’s improving every day. But I’m trying to figure out how can I keep the momentum going with my family that isn’t religious in any way. They do, I believe, believe in God. My dad and I had a very straightforward conversation before he went into the operating room that he, I told him, I said, you need to make a decision before you go in because you’re not guaranteed to come out. And you’re going to have to live with that. And I think he did. But I’m trying to figure out a way to get my family on board to, like, actually practice reading the scripture. I’m proud of them because they are praying and they do mention God. But I’d just like to kind of keep the momentum. And I really greatly appreciate your nightly show and listen to you. And I think you would probably have some good ideas for me to help them.
SPEAKER 05 :
Do you live with them or near them?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I live near them. We’re about 15 minutes out.
SPEAKER 05 :
And you see them several times a week or so or not?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yep, yep. I stopped over and brought them banana bread and blueberry lemon cake yesterday.
SPEAKER 05 :
Great. Good. Well, have you asked them if they would like to read the Bible with you or have you read it to them? I mean, just like you and your husband have started reading the Bible, right?
SPEAKER 04 :
We read it separately. So my husband started reading in late 2020, and eventually I came around and had my own reasons in February of 2021. And we both read in the morning, but we read separately. He has his own study in devotional, and so don’t I. But we talk about what we’ve read. We just don’t follow the same readings.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. Well, I guess what I’m thinking is that your parents talk about God. They believe in God. But are you saying they don’t quite… click, they don’t know who Jesus is? Is that the idea? Or they’re not committed? Or they’re just kind of lukewarm?
SPEAKER 04 :
I think if you knew the fact that we didn’t grow up religious at all, and my brother, my younger brother died 17 years ago, and he was shot. And so that was obviously really hard on our family, but I think that right there alone can really make a parent upset with God and maybe never want to turn. Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
So what I’m asking, because we’re coming up to a hard break. I can’t let it go too long. So do they say they believe in Jesus or they’re not at that point?
SPEAKER 04 :
They do. My dad said he saw him. He goes, I don’t know if it’s a dream or not, but I saw him.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. Well, I mean, just a suggestion. When you visit them, say, why don’t we start a habit of reading about Jesus together? Why don’t we read through the New Testament? I’ll And I’ll read it out loud. And you can have your Bibles open. And if there’s something you don’t understand, you can ask me about it. We can talk about it. Obviously, they’re not a religious family. But if they believe that Jesus is real, you could say, well, you know, Jesus obviously is real. And here’s the story about what he said and what he did. And, you know, if Jesus really is real, he’s like the most important thing there is. If he’s not real, there’s no significance to him at all. He’s just another historical guy who lived and died thousands of years ago. But if he’s real, then there’s nothing as important as that. And so why don’t we take some time to read about him and find out what he said. Would you start with John? I would start with Matthew, actually. I’d start with Matthew, actually. Some people start with John. I appreciate it. Whatever works for you. And, of course, if you feel like you’re not able to answer our questions, you can listen to my lectures on it. I have verse-by-verse lectures on the whole Bible on our website. They’re free, and I answer every question that anyone ever has thought of. No, I appreciate it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you so much. Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
God bless you. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. Our website is thenarrowpath.com. Lots of stuff there. It’s all free. We have another half hour coming, but I’m taking a break for 30 seconds. I’ll be right back. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 01 :
Take the narrow path with you everywhere on your phone or other device by downloading our app from the App Store or from Google Play. You can listen to the radio broadcasts live or later from the app, as well as many other lectures posted at our website. Search for the app by typing the same name as the website, the narrow path, and enjoy the learning experience. It’s rare to get such good stuff for free these days.
SPEAKER 05 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for another half hour. We’d be glad to take your calls, and I’m looking at a switchboard that has a few lines open. It’s not always that way. It was full during the first half hour we took all those calls. But if you’re interested in calling in your questions about the Bible or maybe a disagreement you have with the host, I’d love to talk to you. Give me a call. We only have a half hour, so don’t wait until the last minute because, frankly, if you wait very long, we just won’t get to your call, probably. If you call right now, I’ve got a feeling you’ll get in, I’m pretty sure, because there are a few lines open. The number to call is 844- 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484-5737. Our next call comes from Andy in San Diego, California. Hi, Andy. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hi, Steve. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I randomly found your radio picking up my kids from school in the afternoon. It’s been amazing to listen to. I got lots of questions, but my first one… I’ve been a Christian about, I wasn’t brought up Christian, but I became Christian about 30 years ago. And I started, went from, you know, the first week of church to starting a Bible study in a Shriners hospital. And I’ve been there about two weeks. A kid comes in to me, 16. He got hit by a drunk driver and lost his leg from the knee down. When I asked for prayer, he looked at me and said, will your God regrow my leg? It’s just been a springboard. And that’s your question? Yeah, I would love to hear your thoughts on that question. I mean, I’ve been pondering it for 30 years.
SPEAKER 05 :
Sure. Yeah, I’ve never heard of a regenerated limb. This is one of the things that atheists a lot of times bring up. If you’re on the Internet and you listen to atheists, they often say, well, you hear about God healing headaches and backaches, but How come, if he does that kind of thing, how come he never grows back, you know, amputated limbs and stuff like that? Well, the truth is, I don’t know why he heals anything on any occasion and why he doesn’t on another occasion. You know, God has not promised that we can demand healing. God has not promised that we will be well every day of our lives, ever. The Apostle Paul wasn’t well all the time. He had some problems. He prayed three times that Jesus would take away. And Jesus said, well, my grace is sufficient for you. My strength is made perfect in your weakness. In other words, being weak, having sickness, there’s a purpose in it. And, you know, God doesn’t always heal. He usually doesn’t heal, but he sometimes does. I mean, I shouldn’t say he usually doesn’t because I don’t know the percentages. I certainly have known people who were healed by God. And I know people who died while they were praying for healing. And they had just as much faith. I guarantee the ones who died had the same amount of faith as the ones who got healed. Some of the people who got healed didn’t even have very much faith when they got healed. And someone else, one lady I knew, died confessing that she was healed of her cancer. So a lot of people think that raises questions about the reliability of the Scriptures. It does not. Some people have interpreted some passages as if they guarantee that you’ll be healed if you have enough faith. But a little bit of knowledge of the Bible is a dangerous thing. Because you get a few verses here and there, and you say, wow, these verses tell me exactly what I want to believe. And I’m sticking with it. I’m claiming those, you know. But the truth is that there’s no blanket promise that people will be healed. And while I’ve known people who were, you know, completely healed of cancer that had metastasized through their whole body, and they were apparently instantly healed. They were healed, and I met them even five years later, and they’re still cancer-free. I can’t explain why God does that with some. Like I said, I knew a lady who was confessing she was healed of her cancer right up until the moment she died of it. And I knew another lady who was telling me she was going to die. She had no faith for healing. She didn’t even want a healing. She said, I’m ready to go be with Jesus. I’ve got cancer through my whole body. The doctors have given up. Please don’t pray for me to be healed. I want to go see Jesus. I’m ready to go. And she even thought the Lord had told her the date that she was going to die of it. And she told us what the date was. And when that date came, her husband took her to the hospital, and she was cancer-free. And she’s the one I saw five years later, still cancer-free. Go figure. I mean, here’s two women I have personally known. Both had terminal cancer. One got healed while she was saying she wouldn’t be healed. The other died when she was saying she would be healed. Go figure. I don’t know why God does what he does at certain times. But I will say this. Supernatural healings are more common sometimes than others. God does a lot of miracles at some special times. We know this from the Bible. There were a lot of miracles involved with Israel escaping from Egypt and wandering in the wilderness. God did a lot of miracles through Moses and also through Joshua. But then there aren’t a lot of miracles for like hundreds of years after that. And then Elijah and Elisha come along. That’s like 700 years after Moses’ time. And a lot of miracles, you know, a lot of miracles are done through those guys. And then not so much for another 700 years. And then Jesus and the apostles come, and there’s a lot of them. And there are seasons through the church age where there’s been revivals and a lot of healings and miracles. And other seasons where there just aren’t many. This is up to God to do what he wants to do. And, you know, everyone who’s sick, of course, feels that they’ve got a very good argument for why God should heal them. And everyone who loves them is desperately hoping that God will. But you cannot promise somebody that God is going to regenerate their amputated limb simply because God doesn’t promise it. We can’t make promises God doesn’t make. And there are people who would not even have a ministry, probably, if they weren’t apparently permanently injured. I mean, I think of Johnny Erickson Tata. She’s like my age, like 70-something. And when she was 19, she had a diving accident, broke her neck. She’d been… paralyzed from the neck down for over 50-something years. And if she had not been injured, you probably would never know her name. But now she’s known all over the world because she has a ministry to disabled people. And, of course, she got saved and has had a great testimony through it. There’s books, movies about her. Just because she got injured. Now, lots of people prayed for her to get well. I’m sure she did, too. And she never got healed. But she’s got a great attitude. Her joy in the Lord is even more of a testimony because she’s paralyzed than it would be if she was in great health. And, you know, you can’t say why God doesn’t do things. But I will say that of all the miracles God did, we don’t read ever of a regenerated limb. And therefore, if someone says, well, you’re God, if they say, can he? regenerate my limb, I’d say, yeah, he can do anything he wants to. But I can’t tell you that he will. And especially since, while it would be very nice to have all our limbs intact, people often live reasonably well without them. I mean, there’s that brother from Australia who was born without any limbs. And he’s got a wonderful ministry, which he probably wouldn’t have if he was born normal. I mean, sometimes it’s the very disability that we have. that God uses to be the testimony to get people’s attention and his grace and his power is seen in our weakness. So my answer to that, young man, would be, I’m sorry to say, I can’t tell you that God will heal that. But I can tell you this, he will use it if you surrender your life to him. If you’re devoted to him, he’ll use that for good. In fact, I dare say there may come a time when you’re glad you don’t have that limb because of the way God has used you through the situation. I don’t know what that will be, but I do know God. And I know that those kinds of things are definitely true. So that’s all I could say to him about that. I’m sorry to say, you know, it would be nice if I could say, yeah, God will definitely regrow your limb. But I honestly don’t know of any case where he’s done that. And I don’t know of any reason why he should have to, because he doesn’t owe us any of that. Some people think he does. Some people think that Jesus died for our healing as well as our salvation. And they read it into Isaiah 53, 4, and 5, which I believe they misunderstand. So, you know, misunderstanding certain verses can get you to think that God promised things that he didn’t really promise. And then when he doesn’t, You have to decide, you know, well, did he lie or am I seeing it wrong? And I think when it doesn’t happen the way you thought it would, I’m going to have to say you’ve probably seen it wrong. All right. Let’s talk to Jonathan from Worcester, Massachusetts. Hi, Jonathan. Welcome.
SPEAKER 11 :
Hey there. Hello, everybody. Yes, I got saved 59 now. I got saved back in 82. In Massachusetts, as far as I’m concerned, there was an awakening. A lot of people came to faith with the Lord. And it seemed like a simpler time. What I’ve seen over the last 40 years is things we would have never thought about back then. And if you did hear it, like the gentleman was saying about apostles, if somebody said they were apostles back then, it was just people just understood outright something is right. Whereas these days, I’ve come to see where that term is used everywhere. Where the church wasn’t in my house, I went to go in and… What is your question about? The question is, people… Well, the question is, these aren’t true apostles that are claiming to be apostles. That’s the question I’m asking.
SPEAKER 05 :
That didn’t have a question mark at the end. You’re saying these are not true apostles? Is that what you’re saying?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, sir. Would these be considered from, like, the book of Revelation where the Lord said about false apostles? Would these be those people?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I think a lot of them are false apostles, to be sure. Okay. I don’t know, you know, when people ask me if there are apostles today, and I’ve been asked many times, and those who listen regularly already know what my answer is because I’ve given it before, I have to say I don’t know any of them. And if they are out there, I’m surprised that God keeps them under a bushel like that because, I mean, it’s possible that there would be someone important in the world that I wouldn’t know about, but if there are apostles… It’s strange that I’ve traveled the entire world. I’ve taught on every continent multiple times, mostly within charismatic circles, which means people who believe in the gifts of the Spirit, which is where you’d most likely find people who believe in the gift of being apostles and prophets and so forth. So those are the circles that I have primarily been in while I’m teaching internationally for 55 years. And I haven’t met anyone that if they said, I’m an apostle, I would say, yeah, I could see that. Now, I have met people who said they were apostles. I’ve met other people that their friends told me that they were apostles. But in virtually no case have I met somebody who said they were an apostle and gave the impression to me that they really were. Now, there may be some. But it seems like, I mean, apostles are kind of important. At least they are in the Bible. And if they’re around, it seems like a significant number of people in the body of Christ should be made aware of them. And it seems like most of the people who say they’re apostles are kind of cultic people or self-aggrandizing people in many cases. And I wonder, too… If you’re an apostle, is there some reason you need to tell us about that? I mean, if you’re really an apostle, why don’t you go out and be an apostle and do the apostle thing? Do you need to have a badge that says that? Do you need that sign on your office door, Joe Smith, apostle? It seems to me that almost everybody who calls himself an apostle or even a prophet says, could get by without calling themselves that, but they’re calling themselves that for a reason. They’re very deliberately wanting to be looked to in that role. And since Paul said God gave first apostles and secondarily prophets and thirdly teachers and so forth, it sounds to me like they may be kind of jockeying for some rank, some recognition. And I don’t want to judge them. All I can say is, I’ve not been impressed with any of the claims to apostleship that I’ve heard made in over a century of traveling among those parts of the body of Christ where you hear about such things. I just think it would be a very strange thing if God has some significant apostles in the world, and with the Internet and with traveling and with, you know, The connections I’ve had that I just would never… It’s not just I haven’t met them. I don’t think I know of any. So I’m not sure what the good is of there being an apostle if nobody can find them. Anyway, I can’t say that there can be no apostles. The Bible does not say that the apostolic office has ceased. Some people think it has, and it may have, but the Bible doesn’t say that it has. So all I can say is, When people say they are apostles, or they say, this guy on this podcast, he’s an apostle. This guy on YouTube, he’s an apostle. Is there some reason you need to tell me that? Let me hear what he has to say. If he says something worth believing, I’ll believe what he says. Not necessarily that he’s an apostle, but I don’t need to know if he’s an apostle. I’m not looking for someone to call my leader or my apostle or the guy I’m following. I’m already following Jesus. And that’s what the apostles got people to do. They, of course, they were there to preach Christ, not Paul says we don’t preach ourselves, we preach Christ. So, I mean, if a man’s a real apostle, then he’ll say things that are worth hearing. But him telling me he’s an apostle isn’t one of those things that’s worth hearing. I don’t need to hear him say that. I’m in a position, since I have a Bible, I can tell whether he’s telling the truth or not. And it’s amazing how many people claim to be apostles, and they don’t even have that distinctive. They don’t even tell the truth. So, yeah, I kind of feel your pain there. I understand what you’re complaining about, and I share your thoughts about that, I think. All right, let’s talk next to David from Moses Lake, Washington. David, welcome.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hey, good afternoon. How are you doing? Good. First time call here. I’m trying to keep it poignant. But my question is, I’ve been praying for something for a long time. It was a devastating turning point in my life. Something happened that just devastated my family, my health. It’s just been encompassing. I’ve been praying for about a year. And I believe God is sending me messages just through Scripture and through messages through YouTube, just through messages like when I hear you speak, when I hear David Jeremiah speak, things like that, everything is going to be okay. God’s taking care of it. It’s just, this seems to be arbitrary. You know, it seems to be poignant to my prayer. And my question is, I guess, would God allow those messages to seep in my heart if it wasn’t going to be true? Because I am so scared that I have built up this positivity that everything is going to be okay and then everything is going to fall through. I don’t think God would tease you like that.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, I don’t either. And I think we can say if we’re trusting God and submitted to him, it is true. Everything is going to be okay. It may not be okay in the ways that we would like it to be okay. And that’s an important thing to remember. Because when the sisters of Lazarus sent messengers to Jesus, they said, He that you love is sick, which means heal him. Please come and heal him, you know. And, I mean, the question was implicit. They didn’t actually say it. But when Jesus went, they blamed him for not having come. So they figured he would understand. They’re telling him that Lazarus was sick. would be implicitly saying, please come and heal him. But Jesus’ answer to them was, this sickness is not unto death, but to the glory of God. And obviously they assumed that meant, oh, okay, Lazarus isn’t going to die. That’s great. But Lazarus did die. And, you know, but Jesus said it’s going to be okay. It’s God’s glory. I mean, our whole goal in existence is to glorify God. So, I mean, to say, hey, your situation, God’s going to be glorified. Hey, that’s all I need to know. You can tell me. I mean, it may hurt like heck. I might hate it going through it. But if God’s going to be glorified, that’s turning out good. I mean, all things work together for good. And what the good is is God’s glory if we’re trusting in him and love him and yielded to him. So, you know, your crisis may turn out the way you hope it will, or it may actually turn out the way you don’t hope it will. But if you’re trusting God, it is going to turn out okay. It’s just that what you think of as okay and what God thinks of as okay may not be. Now, of course, Jesus didn’t lie to Mary and Martha. He did go down there, and he raised Lazarus from the dead, so obviously that sickness wasn’t ultimately unto death. It was unto resurrection from the death, and it was to the glory of God. But, you know, it’s not always the case. I mean, if our situation turns disastrous, it doesn’t mean Jesus is going to come down and miraculously fix it for us right away. He did in that case. The point I’m making is he told them it’s going to be okay, and it didn’t go the way they thought it would. And I don’t know what God’s plan is in your situation. But I know his plan is good. And I know that if you’re trusting him, he will not fail to fulfill his plan. So it may be that he’ll do exactly what you’re understanding it to mean. But if it goes the other way, then I’d be looking for, you know, what his plan is in this alternative outcome. Because… There’s no way that you’re going to be asking him to do something that’s good and for his will to be done. And you’re trusting him like a faithful child. And then he doesn’t do what he wants to do. I mean, that’s the one thing we can count on. You know, whatever God wills. James said, go to now human that say today and tomorrow we will go into such a city and continue their year and we’ll buy and sell. He says, you ought to be saying, if the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that. We can’t count on anything. All he says, if God wills it, it will happen this way. But even if it doesn’t happen that way, as long as I’m trusting God, it will work out the way that God wants it to work out for me. There’s no possibility. that a trusting child of God, putting their total confidence in God, will fail to have God’s outcomes in their life. It may not be the outcome they were specifically preferring. I hope things do go well for you, though. I certainly hope that, I mean, they will go well if you’re getting that message, and I think it is true that it will, but you have to be open to the possibility of it going well, what God means by going well. may not be exactly what you’re thinking of as the outcome. We leave the outcomes to God. Faith doesn’t mean we have faith in an outcome specifically. We have faith in God. And we have faith that God will bring the outcome that he sees best. And that’s really all we want. We don’t want some outcome that isn’t his will. I mean, we may at the moment think, I’d rather have this outcome, whether it’s God’s will or not. But as Christians, our commitment is, I’d rather have God’s will ultimately. Not my will, but yours be done, Jesus said, before he got arrested and nailed to a cross. Okay. God bless you, brother. Kevin from Riverside, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 10 :
Nice to meet you. Quick question. I’d like to know if you think that the four Gospels are part of the New Testament. Absolutely. And how could that be if Jesus… really hadn’t died, and it wasn’t the day of Pentecost when the church started.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, the New Covenant began to break into reality when Jesus arrived. There was a transition during his lifetime. At the very end of it, before he died, he had the sacramental meal with his disciples, so this cup is the New Covenant. So he established formally the New Covenant in the upper room. But his whole ministry prior to that was inaugurating the New Covenant. He was bringing in the realities. And that’s why he was able to not be, you know, strict in Sabbath observance. That’s why he could be touched by a woman with an issue of blood. And he didn’t get unclean. She got clean. He could touch a leper. And the leper got clean instead of Jesus being unclean. Under the law, under the old covenant, if you touch a leper, you’re unclean. You touch a woman with an issue of blood, you’re unclean. And Jesus could say, you know, whatever you eat, you know, doesn’t defile a man. It’s what comes out of you. But under the old covenant, it would defile you if you ate pork or something like that. So Jesus already, even before he died, before he was in the upper room, the new covenant is breaking in. The kingdom of God that he’s bringing in had arrived with him. But it went through stages of ratification. And, of course, there’s the Last Supper. His death and resurrection then was a major part of that. His ascension to the throne of God at the right hand. Those are all steps through which it went. But it began, I mean, it began to break into the world when Jesus was here. And that’s why he lived essentially above the old covenant, because he was essentially the new, he himself was the new covenant. You know, it says in Ezekiel 34 and Ezekiel 37 that God would make Jesus a covenant, or actually it’s in Isaiah also, that he says, I will give you as a covenant to the people. So, Christ, in a sense, is the embodiment of the new covenant, and then he made the new covenant with the disciples in the upper room. But, yeah, his life is in the Gospels, and his life was the breaking in of the new covenant. So, sure, his disciples and the Jews lived under the old covenant pretty much until Jesus died, though not in every respect because Jesus was the Lord of the Sabbath, so they could break the Sabbath if he wanted them to. He was, and when they were criticized for actually breaking the Sabbath, he defended them because they were going about their business, his business. So, yeah, I mean, it’d be nitpicking to say, well, technically, the new covenant didn’t come until Jesus died and resurrected. So all that stuff, the three years before that, you know, that’s not the new covenant. No, that’s the transitional, you know, phase from, you know, the phasing out of the old and the coming in of the new. So. you don’t see that in any of the Old Testament books, and that’s why the New Testament books belong in the New Covenant.
SPEAKER 10 :
I appreciate your question.
SPEAKER 05 :
What’s that?
SPEAKER 10 :
Thank you. Oh, a follow-up?
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, I’m sorry. I can’t have a follow-up right now because we only have a couple minutes left. I want to try to get one more call in. Lori from Detroit, Michigan. Lori, we only have a couple minutes. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Hi, Steve. Hi. So I just wonder, what’s your view on cremation versus burial for Christians? And with end-of-life decisions about what to do, like if you’re still alive and there’s not really much hope for your loved ones, kind of a decision to shut off, to end your life, essentially.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. Well, I don’t think we have the right to kill somebody, but we don’t have an obligation to keep them alive I mean, if God and the natural order have decided this person cannot survive without a machine, then I don’t think we have an obligation to trust in the machine. I think, you know, a person can keep the person on the machine. I’m not saying you can’t keep them on the machine. But if you say, you know, if God wants this person to live, he can do it without this machine. And if they die, we take that as God’s will. I mean, I would. Now, as far as cremation is concerned, the Bible does not forbid it. Lots of Christians have convictions against it for various reasons. But they’re not biblical reasons. They’re more sentimental reasons, actually. But, yeah, I don’t think there’s any sin in cremation. Though, as I say, a lot of Christians just don’t feel it’s very appropriate. But, you know, a person who chooses cremation is not violating any command of Scripture. I appreciate your call. I’m out of time for today’s program. You’re listening to The Narrow Path. Our website is thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us. Have a good evening.
