- Posted December 15, 2025
In this episode, join Steve Gregg as he delves into a variety of profound topics, from the applicability of…
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On this episode of The Narrow Path radio broadcast, host Steve Gregg addresses listener questions with thoughtfulness and biblical insight. Callers discuss the challenges of switching churches, family spiritual dynamics, and how to guide children through differing beliefs. Topics also include deep dives into scripture, how Christians should interpret miracles outside the faith, longevity in the Old Testament, and the ongoing debate about baptism and rapture theology. Steve offers practical advice, historical context, and honest guidance—all delivered live and unscripted. Whether you’re wrestling with theology or real-life Christian dilemmas, this episode offers clarity, community, and encouragement on your journey
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon, taking your calls. If you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith you’d like to bring up for conversation on the air, we can talk to you about those if you call in. You can also call if you disagree with the host about anything and you want to talk about that on the air. Feel free to do so. The number to call is 844- We’ll be right back. are joining us. So you’ll have to do the calculations on your own time zone. But in Pacific time, California where I live, it’s at 7 p.m. And if you want to join us, you can go to our website, thenarrowpath.com. Under announcements, you’ll see the login codes to get on to the Zoom meeting tonight. And we’d love to have you join us. Tomorrow night we were going to have Theology Thursday in Huntington Beach at Two Brothers Pizza. That has been preempted by something else. We’ll have to reschedule that, so don’t be showing up for that, although you may want to show up for pizza and to watch the football game. but we won’t be doing our event there tomorrow night. Then, of course, we have not this weekend, but the following weekend I will be in the Minneapolis area, actually about an hour north of Minneapolis, I understand, for three days, Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday. The people who have invited me are calling it, I think, an eschatology weekend, I’ll be talking about this, well, a number of eschatology topics that are listed on our website. If you’re in the Minneapolis area and interested, go to our website, thenarrowpath.com, and look under announcements. And I’ll be seeing some of you in Minnesota in about a week and a half, or less, actually, less than a week and a half. Okay, so we’re going to go to the phone lines now and talk to Ryan calling from Linwood, Washington. Ryan? Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 12 :
Hey, Steve. Hi. So my stepson will be 12 in a couple of weeks, but my wife and I have been wanting to switch churches, but my son is really making a lot of connections ever since summer camp. Yeah. So I was just wondering what your thoughts are on… Why are you thinking about switching churches?
SPEAKER 05 :
For theological or logistic reasons? Are they too far away? What’s the issue there?
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, we do like the church. We like the congregation. It’s just they are King James only, dispensational. And we do love the people. But my wife… has a hard time with King James, and also they’re kind of pushy about it. You know, it’s like we feel like we’re walking on eggshells.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER 12 :
I feel like we’re the only ones that aren’t King James only.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER 12 :
But my son is making a lot of connections, and I am open with him about, you know, he doesn’t have to believe everything, and I try to help give him some critical thinking skills about that kind of stuff. Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
Is he old enough that if you went to a different church, you’d feel comfortable with him going to that one?
SPEAKER 12 :
I would absolutely feel comfortable with him there. I think it’s next year he would be able to go without us checking him in.
SPEAKER 05 :
I see. Next year when? Like a few months from now or just a year from now?
SPEAKER 12 :
In about a year from now.
SPEAKER 05 :
I see. Yeah, well, it’s hard to know what to say because, I mean, obviously you could tell him you guys are all moving to another church. But if, you know, if he can’t go there without you, if they won’t let him go there without you, that’s kind of interesting. They don’t let people, kids from families that aren’t members of the church come to the church?
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, he’s not allowed to be there without an adult at his age. But I think it’s when he’s 13 he’ll be able to go without us checking him in.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right. Well, could you take him to another church and him still go to the youth activities at the church he’s going to now?
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, that’s what we are doing this weekend. So on Thursday night he’s going to do Awanas. But I told him this weekend we’re going to this other church, and I’m explaining to him that it’s perfectly fine to go because we’re part of the body of Christ. We can go to other churches.
SPEAKER 05 :
But they’ll let him go to Awanas and stuff like that at that church if his family’s not in that church?
SPEAKER 12 :
Next year, I believe.
SPEAKER 05 :
I’m not familiar with those policies. Most of the churches I’ve been at would welcome kids who come without their parents. I mean, that’s what Sunday School was invented for, for kids who didn’t have Christian families, and they could get some church involvement. This church actually doesn’t want kids there whose families are not part of the movement, huh?
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, I think it’s just, I think they consider it some kind of a liability thing with the age, you know, and… Yeah, I’m not sure why it would be less of a liability with you there.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, well, I don’t know what to say about that church. I would say that if your son’s making good connections, maybe you could find out whether he could invite some of those kids, like, to your home and to things extracurricular that are not at the church. If they live nearby, he could be friends with them, even if you’re going to a different church, and if that church wouldn’t let him go without you. Again, it’s strange to me to think of a church not letting a 12-year-old go to church. What if you weren’t Christians and he wanted to go to church? Would they allow that? That’s strange to me. Anyway, yeah, I’m not sure what to say. I mean, I would probably, in that case, stay in the church you’d like to leave until he’s old enough to be there without you. Or I would try to set up some extracurricular outside of church events for him and some of the friends he’s met there. Of course, when you guys pull out of the church, maybe his friends’ parents wouldn’t let him, wouldn’t let their kids come over. I don’t know. It depends on how cultic the group is, you know.
SPEAKER 12 :
Okay. So part of my main question is, what are your thoughts about, you know, us – going to a different church while he’s going to a different church at the age of 13. As a family, we’re not going to the same congregation. That’s kind of one of the main parts of my question.
SPEAKER 05 :
So it wouldn’t be possible for him to attend some of the things at the church you’re going to, but also you couldn’t kind of split the time between the two? Because it’s a shame for him to not have Christian friends that he’s getting connected to. But it shouldn’t tie you down, I wouldn’t think.
SPEAKER 12 :
Okay, yeah, I mean, I was just, yeah.
SPEAKER 05 :
I just mean, you’re going to have to be creative here, because I, you know, if a normal church, this King James only church you’re going to, if it was a normal church, at least the churches I’ve been in all my life, they let kids come there, even if their parents aren’t part of it. So I don’t know, I don’t understand their mentality there, if they’re worried about, you know, liability, legal liabilities. Well, Good heavens. I mean, are they more concerned with that or with the spiritual benefit of youth?
SPEAKER 07 :
Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
I don’t understand that mentality. So I would, you know, if necessary, you and your wife could go one more year to this church. You’ve been going there for a while, I assume. Or you could have families from that church come over and bring their sons and to be friends with him. Or he could split his time between the two, or you could. You know, you could, as a family, split your time between the two so he can still have contact with these kids and maybe meet some kids at the overtures, too, the more the merrier. Right. Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I don’t know. That’s what we were talking about. We were talking about.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I don’t know how this will shake out, actually. I mean, it’s obviously. something you’re going to have to finesse, but I think something can happen. I mean, with those suggestions, I would suggest there are some options there for you, and maybe you’ll think of something else, too. I need to take another call. My lines are full here. I need to take another call. All right. Thank you, Steve. Yeah, it’s good to have your son meet some Christian friends, so I hope he can keep those relationships. Thanks for your call. Okay, Michael from Inglewood, California. Welcome to the Neuropath. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, Steve. So I kind of had to mention yesterday the call was pretty lively. The guy that was talking about Jesus literally being on a horse with a sword or literally being a lamb. But then I kind of looked into it and I found some support for what he said. And I read somewhere that Mary actually had a little lamb and its fleece was white as snow. So I don’t know if you could use that.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, yeah. Maybe Jesus was a literal lamb. You’re right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. I wonder if he takes Titus 3.9 literally as well. But my question had to do with Proverbs 4.25. I kind of understand the let your eyes look right on. But what does it mean by let your eyelids, the eyelid part is where I’m kind of lost.
SPEAKER 05 :
You’re talking about Proverbs 4.25? Yeah. Let your eyes look straight ahead. Let your eyelids look right before you. It’s just saying the same thing twice. I mean, this is poetry. In Hebrew poetry, the main feature is couplets, where the same thing is repeated in other words. Now, let your eyes look straightforward, let your eyelids look straightforward. I mean, there’s obviously not adding any information. It’s just emphasizing the first point. Now, I don’t know why it would say your eyelids, because obviously, I don’t know, I would say, if I were going to say, I’d say let your eyes look forward, let your face look forward, or something like that. Eyelids is kind of a strange thing. But the Bible does mention eyelids in this way in a number of places, primarily in poetry books. where it’s parallel with your eyes. So it’s not a big profound thing.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Thanks, Steve.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right. Thanks for your call. Good talking to you. All right. Izzy from Chula Vista, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 09 :
How are you doing, Steve?
SPEAKER 05 :
Good.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’ve got a couple of questions. These questions have come up from our Bible study group, our home fellowship. One is from Genesis 5.1. How do you explain how people lived so many years back in those early biblical times? You know, Adam lived 530 years, and Methuselah 969, and Lamech 777 years. How do you reason that? Must be clean living. That’s what I said.
SPEAKER 05 :
We don’t really know why they lived so long. Obviously, we could suggest that early in human history that some of the aging effects that have accumulated over the centuries were less intense and people just lived longer. But it drops suddenly after the Flood. In Chapter 5, most of the people there lived to be around 900 years old. Then there’s the Flood. And after that, right after the flood, they live closer to 500 years, almost cut in half. And then it goes down. See, there are 10 generations from Adam to Noah, and most of them live to be around 900 years old. So the age spans pretty much stayed steady for those 10 generations. After the flood, there’s 10 generations to Abraham. And Abraham only lived to be 175. Noah lived over 600 because he got most of those years on him before the flood. But it seems that no one was living 900 years after the flood, and it was dropping to 500 and then going down, down, down. So it seems obvious that something happened at the time of the flood that changed things. Now, nobody knows exactly what that is. There are those who believe that before the flood, the Earth’s atmosphere was surrounded by a blanket of vapor. water vapor, which shielded the earth from some of the damaging radiation from the sun and other places in outer space, things that actually cause us to age now more quickly. And if the earth was sheltered from most of that, people might have naturally just lived longer. And when the flood came, it says the windows of heaven were open, which is a figure of speech. But the idea would be that that water vapor canopy was disappeared at that time due to the rain. And then, of course, without it, people aged more quickly. And that’s a reason that some people have given. It’s possible also there were nutritional reasons, but we don’t know. It must have been something environmental that caused the ages to precipitously drop so much just at that time of the flood. I mean, obviously, lots of things were different. A lot of trace minerals would have been washed out of the soil into the ocean when the rain, you know, ran off, and the soil would be much less rich with these things. You know, if you add trace minerals to soil today, it makes, you know, healthier produce. There may have been a lot more of those minerals in the soil before the flood and then when it ran off into the seas. The soil might have been depleted, but I hardly think that would account for a difference of 400 years in a person’s lifespan. So it was something, I would assume, in the environment since it changed so rapidly at that one point after being quite steady for thousands of years before that. So I don’t know the answer. We’re not told the answer. But, you know, certainly if someone says, well, this is obviously mythology. People don’t live to be 900 years. Well, whoever wrote Genesis, and I believe it was Moses, he knew very well that people didn’t generally live to be 900 years in his day either. In fact, even after the flood, they didn’t. And Noah himself, I mean, Moses himself only lived to be 120 and he was old, considered old at that time. So, you know, if Moses wrote this, it’s not as if he’s writing as somebody who didn’t know that ancient people, you know, never really lived to be 900 years old. And, you know, there’s no reason he would make it up because he gives no explanation for it. It’s obvious as you read through the history that it changed at the flood, but Without any explanation given, we have to assume that it’s just recording what happened. And as far as why it happened, that’d be to speculate about. But we really don’t have any way of knowing for sure.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. I have another question real quick. In Exodus 4, 24 and 26, Moses and Zephora… How do we reason that? Is that once she circumcised their son, she left back home to her father Jethro? Should we see that as a separation or a divorce? They did meet back in the desert when Jethro brought her out to meet Moses, but did they continue on?
SPEAKER 05 :
They were separated for probably at least a year during the time of the confrontations with Pharaoh. Yes, it was as he was on his way to meet Pharaoh for the first time that she separated from him in Exodus 4. And after the Exodus, she and her father-in-law came to visit him again in Exodus chapter 18. So we know that she had gone back to live with her father. But then apparently she went back with her father. I mean, when her father left that interview with Moses in Exodus 18, she apparently went back with her father and was permanently separated from Moses. We don’t know why, but later on in Numbers, we read that Moses married an Ethiopian woman. So he must have been single. Of course, I can’t say he must have been single because people sometimes had more than one wife in those days. But we don’t read of Zipporah being in his life anymore. I think she proved me a very unsupportive wife, and probably her leaving was as much her idea as his. So, again, it was a troubled marriage, as many marriages are in the Bible and in real life here. So, I mean, it’s not too surprising.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right, right. Well, thank you, Steve. Thank you for that. For your answers. Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you for your – Yeah, God bless you. Okay, we’ll talk to Cade in Merrimack, New Hampshire next. Hi, Cade. Welcome.
SPEAKER 10 :
Hi, can you hear me?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER 10 :
Hey, I’m getting out of work. I’m in a store, so I apologize for any background noise. But God bless you, and thanks for doing the show. I appreciate it. I listen to it as much as possible when I’m driving home. Great. I have a question about a gentleman – a family friend that isn’t sure about the rapture. He’s unsure about God altogether, still trying to figure things out. But I’m just wondering on your thoughts on the rapture. I know there’s a lot of theological debate on it, and it’s almost anyone’s guess at this point, but I’d just be curious to hear what you have to say with regards to a biblical foundation for what it most likely could be like during the rapture.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, first of all, the man having questions about God and having questions about the rapture are not at all equal concerns. A person who believes in God and is right with God might not have a correct view about the rapture, and it wouldn’t hurt him. I can’t imagine it would hurt anybody to have a mistaken view of the rapture. Now, whatever they do with that view might. For example, there’s a pastor I saw on YouTube. who said that if there was no pre-trib rapture, he’d go crazy. He said he wouldn’t be able to stand it. He wouldn’t be able to sleep. He’d just curl up in a fetal position and so forth. I thought, now that guy’s got a problem. I mean, what if there’s not a pre-trib rapture? Then, you know, what’s he going to do? And he said those things to his congregation. How is he preparing them? Not just for there not being a pre-trib rapture, but just for facing hardship. I mean… Whether there’s a pre-trib rapture or not, the Bible says in the world you’ll have tribulation. And, you know, Paul said that. Jesus said that. It’s commonplace in the Bible to talk about how Christians go through hardship and even martyrdom. And we know from history many have gone through torture and lengthy imprisonments and all kinds of horrible things. So, I mean, this pastor thinks, well, if there’s not a rapture before the tribulation, I don’t want to be here. Well, I think you need to grow a backbone a little bit and don’t teach Christians until you can have some Christian strength yourself. I mean, you shouldn’t be a pastor of a church if you’re telling the sheep, I couldn’t stand it. I had to go through hardship for Jesus. The truth is we’re going to have hardship, but when the rapture occurs, is of very little concern, but the Bible teaches that the rapture occurs when Jesus returns. This is the description that’s given in 1 Thessalonians 4, where it says the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel. Okay, so that’s the second coming of Jesus. And it says, and the dead in Christ will rise first. That’s the resurrection of the dead. And then it says, and then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together to meet them in the air, to meet the Lord in the air and together with them in the clouds. And that’s the rapture. You know, when the dead rise, that’s the resurrection. When the living rise, that’s the rapture. Both the dead and the living rise on what Jesus called the last day when he said four times in John 6, I will raise them up, meaning his people, on the last day. Now, that’d be the dead and the living, I assume, since Paul indicates the rapture and the resurrection happen in close proximity to each other. So, if Jesus is going to raise his people up, that’d be the dead and the living, and he’ll do that on the last day, according to Jesus’ own statements. Now, some people think it’ll be seven years before the last day or even three and a half years before the last day. Some think it’ll be 21 weeks before the last day. That’s the pre-wrath rapture. They don’t necessarily make it exactly 21 weeks, but they believe it’ll be sometime after the midpoint of the rapture. So, tribulation. I believe that whenever Jesus comes back, that’s when the rapture, because that’s what the Bible says. Whatever the last day is, that’s when the rapture takes place. And, I mean, that’s also what the Bible says. If somebody wants it to be before the last day, whether they want an interval of three and a half years or seven years or a thousand years or whatever, I’m going to have to disagree with them. But if they’re wrong, it’s not a problem, unless it is a problem. Like I said, this pastor I heard on on YouTube, it was obviously a problem to him. He believed in a pre-trib rapture, but it sounds like if he would lose his faith in the pre-trib rapture, he’d lose his lunch. He’d really be in trouble. So, I don’t think he should be a pastor because he doesn’t have the stamina or the perseverance to be a shepherd to the sheep. I wonder, would he lay down his life for the sheep? But I’ve heard other people say, well, if there’s no pre-trib uh, rapture, then I don’t even want to be a Christian. I think, well, then I think you’re, you’re not probably a Christian because you’re not following Jesus for any correct reason. You’re, you’re doing it to get out of trouble, out of hardship. You know, that’s not following Jesus. Jesus said, if anyone will come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me. That’s hardship. So, I mean, a man says, well, I don’t want to be a Christian or I can’t stand it. There’s no preacher rapture. I think, uh, yeah, maybe you just need to grow back on. And, uh, And stop pastoring. Please stop pastoring before you ruin all the cheat and scare them to death. Because, frankly, I don’t believe the Bible teaches a pre-tribulation rapture. The Bible teaches a rapture, but it certainly says nothing about a pre-tribulation rapture.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Yeah, he says we will endure trials and tribulations, but take heart for I have to overcome the world.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right.
SPEAKER 10 :
John 16, 33. But I thank you. All right, Keith. Yeah, no, I thank you for that. I appreciate it very much.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thanks for your call. All right. Our next call comes from Rez. Well, we don’t have much time, Rez, before the break, so maybe I’ll hold off. Take your call after the break. We have a break coming up in just a minute, and we wouldn’t get very far with your call probably if I took you now. So let me just take this. I’ll extend the break 30 seconds longer, and then we’ll get to your call in the second half hour. The narrow path is an hour-long program. We’re at the end of the first half hour. And at the bottom of the hour, it’s the only break from calls we take. We don’t have any commercial breaks. We don’t have any sponsors. We don’t have anything for sale. But we do want you to know that we spend a lot of money, and it all goes one place, and that is to pay for airtime. There’s nothing else in our budget. There’s no salaries, no overhead, nothing in our budget except buying airtime. And if you’d like to help us stay on the air, we get all that money from listeners or not at all. So if you’d like to help us, you can write to The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. That’s The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. You can also donate if you want to from the website, which is thenarrowpath.com. Now, the website, by the way, if you’ve never been there, it’s loaded. I just counted up the verse-by-verse lectures just today. I never knew how many. There’s almost 1,200 lectures verse-by-verse, and that’s not including many hundreds of topical lectures. They’re all free at thenarrowpath.com. I’m going to take a 30-second break, and I’ll be back. Don’t go away. We have another half hour coming.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 05 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’ve got some callers waiting. We have one line open if you want to call. We have a half hour ahead of us. If you can get through, we’ll be glad to talk to you with your questions about the Bible or the Christian faith. Or maybe you have something, a point upon which you disagree with the host. Feel free always to call and talk about that. Right now we have only one open line, but you can reach me at this number, 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484-5737. And our next caller is Rez from the Bay Area in California. Hi, Rez. Welcome.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hey, Steve. Thanks for taking my call. Thanks for waiting until the break. I wanted to get your opinion on something and tell you, A quick story of my cousin, who’s probably one of the kindest, most righteous people I know. He’s an engineer, and he went to India, and he saw this man over there who’s very well-known through India, who’s a holy man by the name of Sai Baba. And while he was there, he had a meeting with the guy, and during the meeting, they talked for a minute, and Sai Baba, just out of thin air, materialized a ring for him that was a perfect fit for his finger. It was no magician trick up his sleeve or anything. And he gave it to him. And to this day, he still has that. That was almost 30 years ago. There’s a lot of videos of this guy doing things like that. I know about Sai Baba. I know about his so-called miracles. So your question? I mean, Yeah, I wondered, I don’t believe he’s an evil person, but I just wondered, how do you, in your mind, explain this, if you could?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, that perfectly fits the Christian worldview, the idea that there would be signs and wonders done by people who are not, followers of God, because the biblical worldview is that there are supernatural powers in the world, not just God. There’s demonic powers. And, you know, for example, in 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul said that the man of sin will deceive with signs and lying wonders by the power of Satan, it says. Moses warned the Israelites about this back in Deuteronomy 13. In the opening verses of Deuteronomy 13, Moses said, If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us serve them, you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord, With all your heart and with all your soul. So Moses said, yeah, there’s going to be false prophets, and they’ll do signs and wonders. It’s interesting he doesn’t even mention the devil in this case, though Paul mentions the devil as doing signs and lying wonders in 2 Thessalonians 2. But here Moses doesn’t even talk about the devil. He just says God’s testing you. That is to say he’s allowing these things to happen. No doubt the devil or demons are doing it. And God allows it to happen so that he’ll test you to see if you’re going to follow him or not. Now, Sai Baba obviously is not preaching Christ, and therefore he’s a false teacher. Now, how much he knows about Christ and rejects, I do not know. I don’t know what his religious background was before he became famous. But, yeah, he’s been around. You mentioned your friend was there 30 years ago. When you mentioned Sai Baba, I thought, is he still alive? Because, I mean, it’s been at least 30, 40, 50 years since I’ve heard of him. But I did hear, you know, that he does those kinds of things. So how do I understand it? Well, I mean, again, it’s one of those things that I don’t pretend to know everything, but I know that my worldview as a Christian teaches me not to be surprised about those kinds of things happening. And I’m going to just guess that it’s a demonic power that the guy has. And he’s not the only person in history who’s had them. The Bible actually mentions people like that. In fact, you know, Simon Magus says, as he was called, Simon the Sorcerer, in Acts chapter 8, before he became a believer. His career as a believer was short-lived. He soon left the faith. But he was a famous magician. And according to even secular records about him, because after he encountered Philip in Samaria, he later had a career there. in Rome, entertaining Nero and so forth. And, you know, there’s suggestions that he flew around and things like that, you know. And in Acts 8, it mentions that before the gospel came to Samaria, where Simon lived, that he had everyone impressed that he had the great power of God. He was called the great power of God. That was his nickname. So he must have done some pretty impressive things in a world where there were lots of magicians. You know, I mean, he was impressive. Even people who had seen magicians before were deceived enough to think that he was God. So, you know, it would be interesting to know if Sai Baba is still living and if he’s doing these kind of things still, but I’d heard about them almost 50 years ago, I think, and, you know, had the same conclusion that I have now. So that would be my answer if I were pressed to give one. Okay. Let’s talk to Daniel from Stockton, California. Daniel, welcome.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hey, Steve. So – There’s a pastor that’s controversial, I would say, that I listen to, because there are some things that he talks about that I agree with, others that I don’t. You know, I don’t know if it’s necessary for me to mention who he is. The only reason I would do that is because you mentioned YouTube, and if you’ve been on YouTube, you’ve probably heard of Geno Jennings.
SPEAKER 05 :
I know his name. I’ve never watched him. I don’t know what he stands for, yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, and he just says, let’s get back to Bible. Things that the church currently is doing, a lot of the things we do are not biblical. For example, one of the things that I’m stumped with and wondering, do I need to go and redo what I’ve done? But he mentions that baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost is not the way to baptize, that we should be baptizing in the name of Jesus only. And he pulls scriptures like from Acts 8, 17 and all that. Lots of them in Acts, yeah. Right. And he mentions, you know, nowhere in the Bible did it say you say a prayer and invite Jesus into your heart and then you’re saved. And he said because he goes back to Acts and says, this is how you are saved. And it was the it was, you know, the the. the being baptized and the laying on of hands, and then they received the Holy Ghost. So if you’re just standing there and all of a sudden you’re speaking in tongues and calling out the Holy Ghost, that’s not the Holy Ghost.
SPEAKER 05 :
Anyway, so… It did happen that way in the house of Cornelius. They got baptized in the Spirit and they were speaking in tongues and they had not been baptized yet. They had not made any profession of faith at all. So it might happen that way sometimes. Right.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, you know, and I know from my own personal experience, I spoke in tongues for the first time after reading Scripture and praying, and I asked God. I was by myself, not in church. In fact, I find those experiences for me personally come in a private setting more than they do in a public setting.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. So what would your question be for me today?
SPEAKER 02 :
My question, I’ll focus on the one topic he brings up, which is baptism. He says if you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, you were baptized wrong. He says you should be baptized in the name of Jesus because to say in the name of the Father, that name the son, that the name, you know, you just… I don’t know what just happened to your voice.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, I’ve got to put you on hold. Your voice just went strange. It kind of went distant. But you don’t have to tell me the whole thing. I’m familiar with people who say that we have to be baptized in the name of Jesus only. This is the position of the United Pentecostals and the Oneness Pentecostals in general. I’m not saying he is one because I don’t know him. I mean, you don’t have to be a oneness Pentecostal to believe that baptizing in the name of Jesus is the way it was done in the book of Acts, because we read it a handful of times. We read of people being baptized in water, and they’re always baptized in the name of Jesus there. So, I mean, I’m with him on that. But if he says you were baptized wrongly, if you were baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, I’m going to say, well, where does it say you’re not supposed to? It seems to me like Jesus said go and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So it seems to me if you got baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, that was done. the way Jesus said it’s supposed to be done. And I’m not sure why anyone should say otherwise. Now, if someone says, well, did the disciples, the apostles, when they baptized people in the name of Jesus, were they disobedient to Christ on that point? No, I don’t think so. In my opinion, they must have felt like that’s what Jesus meant. I mean, they spent their whole lives trying to obey Jesus. I mean, Peter was willing to die. He said, we must obey God rather than then, wouldn’t we? The court told them that they’ll die if they don’t stop preaching the gospel. And Peter said, no, we have to obey God. So, I mean, obviously, when they baptized in the name of Jesus, the apostles believed they were baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And I’m not going to say they were wrong. It sounds to me like probably they were right, that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit they took to be the name of Jesus. Now, what that would mean is, that the name of Jesus is equivalent to the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I mean, the other day we were talking about Colossians 2.9, where Paul said that in Jesus dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. I mean, the name of a person who is and was among us as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in flesh, is the name of Jesus. And I suppose that the apostles heard Jesus say that and figured, well, what name is he talking about? It must be the name of Jesus. At least that’s what they understood it to be after they were filled with the Spirit. So, remember, before Jesus was crucified, in John 16, I think it’s verses 12 and 13 or thereabouts, he said, I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them at this time. But when the Holy Spirit comes, he’ll guide you into all truth. Well, When the Holy Spirit came, I believe he did that. And we never find the apostles modifying that practice at all. They always baptized in the name of Jesus. So to my mind, I’m going to have to assume that either they were disobedient to Christ, which is not an option since they were willing to die rather than be disobedient. they must have been baptizing the way they understood him to be telling them to do it. And so they must have assumed that the name of Jesus is what he’s referring to. And he says the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Now, I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the Baptist church when I was 12 years old. And, you know, it was done the way that Jesus said it. But to my mind now, as I got older, I realized, well, that’s just the same as being baptized in the name of Jesus. If the two terms are interchangeable, again, they must be or else the apostles were disobedient. I don’t believe they were disobedient. So those terms must be interchangeable. And if they are interchangeable, how can someone say that one is better than the other? How can one say that one is invalid and the other is valid? It doesn’t make any sense to me. It seems to me that if someone said, I baptize you in the name of the Alpha and the Omega, You know, the lion of the tribe of Judah. I baptize you in the name of the son of David, you know, the Messiah. I mean, all of those are talking about the same person. And, you know, this is the problem with people who get legalistic about this is they think salvation is based on a ritual rather than the person that you’re swearing allegiance to. Baptism is your oath of allegiance to Christ. And if you’re baptized, remember Paul said you weren’t baptized in the name of Paul, were you? Why do you say that? That’s 1 Corinthians 1. He said that because some people were saying, I am of Paul. He said, no, you’re not of Paul. Paul didn’t die for your sins. You weren’t baptized in the name of Paul. The idea is what name were you baptized into or what person were you baptized into? If someone said, oh, I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and if that’s the same as Jesus, then it seems to me that’s all good. And again, any other synonym for Jesus. It’s the person who saves you, not the ritual. So, you know, I think when people get legalistic about formulas, I think they’re getting off the rails. Not because he’s wrong in saying that the apostles… baptized in the name of Jesus, of course they did. They did that. But I think it’s just strange to get messed up about that. Okay, Ray in Seattle, Washington. Is that you too? Was that you I was just talking to?
SPEAKER 08 :
No.
SPEAKER 05 :
I didn’t think so.
SPEAKER 08 :
This is Ray.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, Ray.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hey, before I ask my question, sorry, I had a bug. You make a comment about your age. You’re talking about people living all these long years. Genesis 6.3 says God limits after the flood to 120 years. How does that fit into everything you were saying?
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s the length of time he was giving mankind until the flood. When God said his years, meaning mankind, man’s years shall be 120 years, he’s not saying that people from that time on would live 120 years long individually. No one ever did. I mean, Moses did, but that was almost everyone in Genesis before Moses was born. Well, all of them lived to be more than 120, it seemed to me. I think Joseph died at 110, if I’m not mistaken. But, no, it never did become the age, the average age. And Moses wrote Genesis, and he also wrote Psalm 90, where he said that a man’s days are three score and ten, which is 70. So it would be interesting for Moses to record God saying that man’s years would be 120, and then Moses writes a psalm where he says man’s years are 70 years. Now, what God is saying, this is giving you the run-up to the flood. And God saw that wickedness of men was great on the earth, and the thoughts and intents of men’s hearts was only evil continually. And he said, my spirit shall not always strive with man because he’s wicked from his youth. His days will be only 120 years, which means, I believe, the length of time that he was going to wait and give mankind that much time to repent before the flood would come and take out the unrepentant. So I don’t think 120 years ever was intended to be the longevity of an individual person because, as I say, at that time and for a long time afterward, it was much longer than that. People typically lived.
SPEAKER 08 :
Here’s my question.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
My question is, in Hebrews 11.35, it says you can get a better resurrection by suffering. What do they mean by that?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, it doesn’t quite say that. It says the people by faith in the Old Testament who suffered martyrdom, they were sawn in two, they were slain by the sword, they faced the violence of fire and things like that, it says they did this because they desired a better resurrection. Now, you’re taking that to mean that they figured by suffering they’d get a better resurrection than they would get if they didn’t suffer. Now, it could mean that, because there are different rewards in the resurrection for different people, and those who die as martyrs, well, I wouldn’t mind if they got a better resurrection than I do. I mean, if their rewards were greater, I mean, as far as I’m concerned, they deserve it. I mean, fine. And people will get what is just. But it’s also possible what it’s saying is the resurrection they were seeking is better than the life they were giving up. They were giving up this life because they looked for a better life. in the resurrection. I have come to think that’s what the writer of Hebrews meant. Though, when I was younger, I always thought it meant, yeah, by suffering more, they get a better resurrection than they would get if they didn’t suffer more. And that could still be true. I mean, that’s obviously an ambiguous phrase, and I’ve got no objection to either one. You know, the more we suffer, the more, you know, as it were for Christ, the more reward there should be, I should think. I mean, you know, if Richard Wurmbrandt, who was tortured for 14 years in Romanian communist prisons and lived with his feet broken up so bad he could never stand on them again, he couldn’t wear shoes anymore for the rest of his life, it was too painful. He had holes and stripes and scars all over his body for the rest of his life. if he doesn’t get a better reward than me, I’m going to lodge a complaint. You know, I’m going to say, what’s up with this? How could I get the same reward he gets? I haven’t suffered like that. And so, I mean, people who are martyrs, I would be surprised if they didn’t get something better than I get, assuming I’m not a martyr. So, yeah, that could be what he’s saying, but he could be simply saying they gave up their lives. It says they refused deliverance because they sought a better resurrection. That is, they had a choice between being delivered from their martyrdom by compromising, but they didn’t. They looked for something better in the next life than the life they were losing. So I could see it either way. But it’s a question I fully understand you asking because that has come to my mind too when I was reading that before. Okay, let’s talk to Alistair from Vancouver, British Columbia. Hi, Alistair. Welcome.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hi, Steve. Thanks for taking my call. I have a question here. It’s something that I need some clarification on as far as repentance goes. Now, You know, is repentance a one-time thing or is it a daily thing or is it a thing that needs to be done when it’s necessary? And is there any difference between repentance after the birth and death of Jesus on the cross or before?
SPEAKER 05 :
I think that repentance was always required of sinners wanting to be right with God before and after Jesus. And I think we should repent whenever we need to repent. Repent means to change your mind. Now, initially, when you become a Christian, what you’re changing your mind about is whether you’re going to follow Christ or not. Before you’re a Christian, you’re not following Christ. And you’re apparently okay with that. I mean, or else you would have been a Christian. Usually people who are not Christians think they’re okay, and that’s fine with them. But then when you change your mind about it and say, no, it’s not okay. It’s not okay for me to follow my own lust. It’s not okay for me to not follow Jesus. Jesus is the Lord. He’s the king. I should be following him. When people change their mind and turn around, that is, you know, the point, I think, that they’re converted. But, you know, whenever we sin, we are deceived at that moment. The devil is a great deceiver, and we can even deceive ourselves. We are deceived into thinking that sinning will somehow be justifiable, that the regrets we’ll have for sinning will not be as great as the pleasure and gratification we got from sinning. These are, of course, lies that the devil tells us, but we wouldn’t sin if we didn’t believe those lies. Generally speaking, we believe that we’ll get away with it, You know, it’ll stay a secret. No one will find out. Most of the time that’s not true. So, I mean, in other words, when we sin, we’re thinking wrongly. We’re being deceived. After we sin and we realize we were deceived, we have to change our mind about those things and say, no, I was wrong about that. I was wrong about that. It’s not okay to sin. So, you know, anytime your mind, the word metanoia is the Greek word in the New Testament that’s translated repentance or to repent. And so, you know, it means to change your mind. So I think we need to change our minds whenever our minds are wrong. And, of course, initially there’s a basic repentance that reorients us. from the wrong way we were going in life to the right way, following Christ. But after that, you know, there’s still, you know, we still do the wrong things at times, and we have to change our mind about that. The Bible, remember, in the churches in Revelation chapters 2 and 3, five of those seven churches are told they have to repent. Now, they are churches, and they are not, you know, they haven’t lost their salvation, so they are sinning churches, and they are told they have to repent. Now, since they’re churches, obviously the people in them had once already repented when they became part of the church. But now the church is compromised and need to repent too. So, you know, changing your mind, repenting, being sorrowful and turning back the right way needs to be done as often as it needs to be done. And, of course, the less we sin, the less we’ll have to do that. I appreciate your call. We’ve got just a few minutes left. Matthew from Dallas, Texas. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 11 :
Hi, yeah, thanks for having me. Can you hear me okay? Mm-hmm. Hi, yeah, I just was wondering if you had heard of or seen the pilot of the show The Promised Land? It’s like a satire. No, I have not. Yeah, it’s done in the vein of The Office or Parks and Recreation, but it’s supposed to be like The Office meets The Book of Exodus, like the second half where Moses has already crossed the Red Sea and he’s trying to how to lead the Israelites.
SPEAKER 05 :
Is that on Netflix or Amazon Prime? Where do you find that?
SPEAKER 11 :
It’s on YouTube, actually. The pilot is free right now. You can watch the pilot for free on YouTube. I think it’s like 28 minutes or so, but they just released a trailer for the next couple episodes. I think there’s like six episodes total for season one. And supposedly the next one is dropping, I think, in October, the first of October. They said in the trailer, if you watch it. I think you can watch that on YouTube as well.
SPEAKER 05 :
So, no, I haven’t seen it. It’s a comedy. I assume it’s not Reverend. I mean, comedy is candy.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, it’s… Yeah, they’re trying to be respectful of the Bible without making fun of it. If you watch the pilot opening, it’s pretty funny. I’ve seen it several times now. It starts with Moses. Spoiler alert. He’s holding up the staff. And the Israelites are dying when he puts it down. And he’s like, I’m trying to hold it up. And then her and Aaron are trying to help him. And it’s done. It’s funny. They break the fourth wall and talk to the camera like they do in the office. It’s worth checking out. I wanted to know your opinion on it.
SPEAKER 05 :
I have not seen it. I didn’t know it existed. I will say that hearing about it, my first impression, I’ll bet it was written by Jewish comics. For one thing, most comics are Jewish. And secondly, Jewish comics are particularly cynical about some of their own historical narratives and stuff from the Bible. and their own religion, which is not to say that they’re entirely mocking it. It’s just that they tend to make some jokes. And so I could see that as, I mean, I don’t know who wrote this, so I could be wrong, but if I saw the credits run at the end, I’d expect to see a lot of Jewish names probably, especially since it’s about the Jews, and Jews often like to make jokes about themselves. Anyway, no, I don’t know if I’ll ever see it. I mean, I won’t say that I refuse to see it. I just don’t know if I’ll get around to it. But I can’t comment on it since I didn’t know it existed until just now. Anyway, I appreciate your call. We’re out of time for today’s program. You’ve been listening to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg. We’re on Monday through Friday at the same time for an hour. taking your calls. We are also, as I said earlier, listener supported. If you’d like to write to us, the address is The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. You can also donate from the website, but whether you donate or not, the website is definitely a place you should visit. There’s all kinds of resources. None of them cost any money. You don’t have to donate. You don’t even have to sign in or anything like that. We won’t know you were there. But there’s thousands of resources there for free at thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us.