In this episode, Steve Gregg navigates through intriguing listener questions. Explore the symbolisms behind the ‘Key of David’ and hear how it relates to access to God. Tune in for a comprehensive discussion on the importance of covenant in defining Israel and address the persistent topic of end-time tribulation. Discover how tithing fits within New Testament teachings and gather valuable perspectives on managing financial obligations alongside spiritual duties.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 09 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon. And the purpose for that is that you can call in while we’re on the air. You can present questions you have about the Bible, about the Christian faith. We’ll talk about them here, might even be able to answer them, you never know. You can also call to disagree with the host because the host does, you know, the program isn’t here to just feature my views about things. But I do have views about things, and they do come out. And so we’d like for people with different views to feel free to call and balance comment. And you can do that. Right now we have some lines open. Actually, most of our lines are open at the moment. So if you want to give me a call, the number is 844-484. 844-484-5737 844-484-5737 844-484-5737 in the Minneapolis area. Actually, a bit north of Minneapolis, but it’s the area that I would call, as a West Coast Southern California person, I’d call it the Minneapolis area. And I’ll be speaking on Friday night. And the topic will be, and these topics have been assigned to me. It’s going to be all about eschatology this weekend. Friday night at They want me to talk about how to study the book of Revelation. On Saturday, I’m going to be talking about signs of the times, whatever that means. And then on Sunday, I’m going to be talking about the throne of David, Jesus and the throne of David. And if you’re eschatology savvy, you know that the dispensational view is that Jesus has not yet been able to fulfill the promise that the Messiah would sit on David’s throne. And the common view among us that we hear most often is that when Jesus comes back, he will sit on David’s throne. And that will be during the millennial reign. But I think the Bible actually says something different than that. And so we’ll be talking about that subject. We’ll talk about the case for each side of that controversy. And then I’ll be done for the weekend. This is like a short trip for me. It’s a long distance but short length. Only three days this time. Most of my trips this year have been like 10, 11, 12 days. And by the way, there will be another 11-day trip to Oregon next month. But I’m not going to go into the details about that right now. because it would take more time, and I’ll start giving more detailed announcements about that after I get back from this impending trip. But if you’re in Minnesota, especially in the Minneapolis area, you might be interested in coming to one of these meetings. Here’s how you do it. Go to thenarrowpath.com. That’s thenarrowpath.com. And look under the tab that says Announcements. And under there, you’ll see the dates and the times and the places and so forth. All right. If you’d like to be on the program, we still have a line or two open. If you’d like to call, the number is 844-484-5737. And that’s 844-484-5737. Our first caller today is going to be Paul from Vancouver, British Columbia. Hi, Paul. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hi, Steve. Nice to be here again. Yeah, I know I’ve spoken to you on this before regarding the place of Israel in God’s end time program, especially as it has to do with what people have referred to as the fig tree in Matthew chapter 24. I was in church a few weeks ago and someone asked a question regarding that. Isn’t Israel the fig tree that will be gathered together before the coming of the Messiah? And I try to answer by saying that it’s not just, we can’t take that statement in isolation. Jesus said, look at the fig tree and all the trees. So if Israel is a fig tree, what are all the trees? So I want to throw some light on that again, because a lot of people are confused as to the place that Israel occupies. Many people say, believe that Israel has a special place in God’s agenda. And I listened to one of your sermons where you emphasized the fact that the dispensation of the Jews is over. Now, God relates to us as either Christians born again and believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, or you are not a child of God. Could you please shed some light on that topic once again?
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, thanks Paul for your call. Yeah, I don’t know if I’ve ever mentioned the dispensation of the Jews because I don’t really think there was a dispensation of the Jews. I think that Israel was under the Old Covenant for a certain period of time that could be called a dispensation. I mean, throughout history, Christian writers have referred to the Mosaic order as a dispensation. So, Mosaic meaning when Moses’ law was binding on Israel. So, There was a Mosaic dispensation, and then now there’s, of course, the Christian dispensation. However, neither of them were, strictly speaking, about Jews. Israel and Jews are not exactly the same thing, although sometimes the terms are used in an overlapping manner. his nation at Mount Sinai. He earlier made a covenant with one of their ancestors, Abraham, and then with Isaac and Jacob, and saying that their seed or their offspring would have special privileges and special status. And one of those was that they were delivered out of Egypt when they’d been there for hundreds of years and God made them into a nation. But it wasn’t only people of that ethnicity who did that because it says in Exodus chapter 12, that when the Israelites left Egypt, they weren’t all ethnically Israelite because it says a mixed multitude went out with them, which means ethnically mixed. But God did deliver the Israelites because of his promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He did deliver them from Egypt, and he gave them the promised land. But the group wasn’t strictly speaking Jewish, as we would say today, but they were ethnically diverse people. but that did include the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob among them. He made a covenant with them at Mount Sinai, which established them as a nation, and that nation was called Israel, which is also, of course, the ethnicity of many of the people who were part of it. But then there was a new covenant. God said in Jeremiah he was going to make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, And he did so when Jesus came. Jesus made the new covenant with his disciples who were of the house of Israel and the house of Judah. They were the leaders of the faithful remnant of that nation. In the upper room, he made a new covenant with them, he said. And so the New Testament tells us that the new covenant has superseded the old covenant. So the old covenant is obsolete. It’s actually the term that’s used in Hebrews 8.13. The old covenant is obsolete. Now, there’s still Israel because God saved the remnant of the Jewish people, of the nation of Israel. They became the disciples of Jesus. They became what we call the Jerusalem church. There were many thousands of them. They were Jewish. They were part of Israel, the nation, and they were also the first believers in Christ. And they were what’s the remnant of Israel. Also, they were called the church. Now, eventually, of course, just like Israel in the Old Testament was ethnically mixed, likewise, in the New Testament, under the New Covenant, the group became ethnically mixed eventually. Eventually, Gentiles were allowed to be part of that, too. But it’s always been a matter of which covenant. If you were living before the time of Christ and after the time of Moses, you could be part of Israel, whether you’re born that way or not, just by covenant. becoming part of the covenant. You’d have to, if you’re a man, you’d have to get circumcised. You’d have to keep Sabbaths. You’d have to keep Passover. You’d have to essentially keep the law of Moses. And Gentiles did do that. Some Gentiles did. They called them proselytes. And they became just part of Israel. And so the nation of Israel was made up of people who were born Jewish and people who were not born Jewish, but who were defined as Israel because of their adherence to the covenant. The covenant at Mount Sinai is what actually instituted the nation of Israel and what defined them. So if a Jewish person didn’t keep the covenant, for example, it says if a Jew would worship an idol, they’d be cut off from the people. They wouldn’t be part of Israel anymore. They’d still be Jewish by race, but they wouldn’t be part of Israel because Israel is not the same thing as the Jewish race. Israel was defined by the covenant of And a Jew or a Gentile could be part of Israel if they kept the covenant. That’s true in the new covenant, too. God came and made the new covenant with the remnant of Israel. And initially, as far as we know, only Jewish people were part of it in the first few years. But then Gentiles began to come in, and now there’s Jews and Gentiles, just like there were in the old covenant Israel. So, you know, it is a different era. But it’s not as if there was an era of the Jews, as if the Jewish people as a race had some special racial privilege. No, it’s always the covenant. God would exclude a Jew under the Old Testament if he broke the covenant. And he would include a Gentile if they kept the covenant. So obviously, collectively, the nation of Israel was multiracial, as it is now, too. We call it the church today. But it was called the church in the Old Testament, too, by the way. The word church was used in the Old Testament as well to speak of Israel. So church and Israel are kind of interchangeable terms in the Old Testament and the New. Although, of course, the New Testament still… uses the word Israel more than one way. So did the Old Testament, by the way. The word Israel sometimes referred to the northern kingdom of the ten tribes. Sometimes it referred to the whole Jewish nation, the nation of Israel. Sometimes it referred to simply the family of Jacob. Sometimes it referred to property, the land, or even the political entity. So the word Israel is used different ways in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, it’s used primarily two different ways. One, This one’s talking about the saved Israel, the remnant of Israel, which is the ones who follow Jesus Christ. And then the other was those who had ethnic Israeli background. And both terms, I mean, the term is used both ways in the New Testament, just like it’s used both ways in the Old. That doesn’t mean that the different ways are equal to each other. It just means you have to go by context to see which one is being used in a given place. All right, let’s talk to Steve in Old Orchard Beach, Maine. Hi, Steve, welcome.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hi, thank you. I was wondering if you could please elaborate on the keys to the kingdom. It’s referenced several times in the Bible, and I was wondering if you could elaborate on that.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, well, the keys to the kingdom is mentioned in one place in the Bible, and that’s in Matthew 16, but there’s also reference to the key of the house of David. Now, some people… like Roman Catholics, for example, generally speaking, understand the keys of the kingdom to be the same as the key of the house of David. So maybe that’s where you’re coming from. But there’s only one actual time that the keys of the kingdom are mentioned. That’s in Matthew 16. And he says, let’s see, where do I start here? Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah. It’s going to be verse 18. No, no, verse 19. Jesus said to Peter, I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Now, many translations believe that the better way to translate the latter part of that is whatsoever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven. What have you loosed on earth will have been loosed in heaven. In other words, Peter’s not doing the binding first and then heaven responds and agrees with it. Rather, heaven has done the binding and loosing, and Peter is announcing it on earth. He’s binding on earth what has been bound in heaven. So that the binding and the loosing is a heavenly reality determined by God, and Peter is among those who will be enforcing that in the church. Now, I say among those. Because the same thing is said to the whole group of apostles a couple of chapters later. In Matthew 18, verse 18. Again, Jesus is now talking to all the twelve. And he says, Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth will have been loosed in heaven. So the same promise that he made to Peter is made to all the apostles. So it applies to Peter. But because he’s as one of the apostles, it really applies to all the apostles. But since Jesus is talking to Peter, says, you know, you will do this. But he doesn’t mean to the exclusion of the other apostles. It’s because you’re one of the apostles and all the apostles will have this authority. Now, I believe that would include the whole idea of having the keys to the kingdom. What are the keys to the kingdom? Well, no one knows for sure. I think there’s been a. sort of a traditional folklore image that when people die, they meet Peter at the pearly gates, and he decides to let them in or not. I think that whole fiction comes from probably a misunderstanding of this verse. If Peter’s got the keys to the kingdom, you know, people are going to have to meet him at the door, and he’s going to have to open it for them or not. But that’s not what I think he’s saying. Coming into the kingdom of God, is something that we do in this life, not when we die. Jesus told Nicodemus, you have to be born again to enter the kingdom of God. You have to be born of the Spirit. The Bible says that we Christians have entered the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is in our midst. We’ve been translated into the kingdom of God’s Son, it says in Colossians 1. And so… You know, we have come into the kingdom of God. Now, how do people get in there? They get in there by receiving Christ. And how do they receive Christ? Well, by hearing the gospel. Well, how do they hear the gospel? By someone preaching. You know, Paul goes through that whole process, that whole chain there in Romans chapter 10, when he says, how shall they call upon him of whom they’ve not heard? And how shall they hear? Unless they preach. I’m looking at Romans 10 here. Verse 14 and following. It says, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? How shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? Now, Jesus was sending the apostles. That’s what the word apostle actually means in the Greek. It means sent ones, people who are sent. So he was going to send the apostles out to the world, and they would preach, and then the people would have an opportunity to believe that and call on the Lord and come into his kingdom, which is what happens when we’re converted. So Peter and the apostles, I think, were together given the assignment of opening that opportunity. They have the key to open that lock to the people who would otherwise be ignorant and not be saved. Now, of course, since the apostles have died, there’s others. who preached the gospel. It doesn’t have to be just them, but they were the ones who initially did. Even when there were 3,000 converts on the day of Pentecost, in the book of Acts, it says there were 3,000 people, and they continued daily in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and in prayers. That’s Acts 2.42. And the next verse says in verse 43, Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. So you’ve got 3,000 people, but only the Apostles seem to be out there doing those things. And also we read, you know, in chapter 4, that verse 33, With great power the Apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. That’s Acts 4.33. So the church had thousands of people, but the Apostles were the main preachers. And that’s, I think, what Jesus probably is saying to Peter, you and your fellow Apostles, I’m sending you to preach so that people can know and believe and call on the name of the Lord and enter the kingdom of God that way through conversion. So that’s how I would understand the meaning of that. I’m aware that there’s some more significance given to that by the Roman Catholic Church than I’m suggesting here. Is that understandable?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Well, no. Thank you very much. That helps a great deal. Thank you. for your insight, and thank you for all you do.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right. Thank you, Steve, for calling. God bless. Okay. Jim from Sacramento, California. Jim has become pretty much a daily caller. And, Jim, you might want to cut back a little bit, but go ahead.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes. I was wanting to, first of all, let you know that you’re going up there to Minneapolis. About seven miles west in Plymouth is our Free Lutheran Bible College and Seminary.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, thank you, Jim. I don’t need to have all that information. And I hope no one thinks I’m rude by cutting you off, but you do like to share a lot of information before getting to your call. We’ve got a lot of people waiting. Could we get to your question, please?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes. My question is in relationship to the key to the throne of David
SPEAKER 09 :
The key of the house of David?
SPEAKER 05 :
What, in your judgment, is that exactly?
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, yeah, the key of David, or the key of the house of David, is mentioned twice. It comes originally from Isaiah chapter 22, and then it’s quoted, or at least alluded to, by Jesus in the book of Revelation. In Isaiah 22, it’s applied to a man named Eliakim. Yeah. 22, let’s see, I’m going to see where we start here. It’s a prophecy made to a man named Eliakim. And he’s taking the place of a man named Shebna who’s being thrown out of his office. Now, this is in the period of Hezekiah’s reign, the king of Judah. Shebna was the steward of the house. And that’s the same word, the word steward, this is verse 15, that is used of Joseph when he was a steward of Potiphar’s house. He’s a servant who had great authority and was apparently given, he’s the one who would give access to the king or not because he had the key of David. The house of David would be the king’s house. The whole dynasty of David is called the house of David. So it would apparently be the case that if someone wanted to see the king, they would have to present their case for doing so to Shebna. And he would allow them to come in or he would not. Now, Shebna somehow displeased the king or God. We’re not told how he did or what he did. But basically, Isaiah 22, 15 through 19 is talking about how he’s going to be thrown out of his position. And then in verse 20 and following, it says that in that position, that Sheba has vacated, God’s going to put a man named Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah. Now, we don’t know very much about Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah. We do know that when the Rabshika surrounded the city of Jerusalem and Hezekiah sent some agents out to negotiate with the besieging army, Eliakim was one of the ones he sent out. So he was some kind of a trusted official. But God is saying that his blessing is on Eliakim, just as his displeasure is on Shebna, whom he’s replacing. And it says in verse 22, Isaiah 22, 22, The key of the house of David… I will lay on his, that is Eliakim’s shoulder. He shall open and no one shall shut. And he shall shut and no one will open. Now, what this means is it’s not very mysterious. It just means that he’s going to now be the steward of the house of the king. And he will be the one who’s entrusted with the keys of access to the king. So that, you know, it’ll be finally his decision. who gets to see the king and who does not. So he’s a very trusted servant, a very trusted steward. He protects the king from probably frivolous interruptions, and yet he’ll let people in who he feels should have access. Now, that is said about Eliakim. In Revelation chapter 3… Jesus says to the church of Philadelphia in verse 7, To the angel of the church of Philadelphia write, These things says he who is holy, he who is true, he who has the key of David, he who opens and no man shuts, and shuts and no man opens. Okay, so Jesus is saying that he has a role analogous to that of Eliakim. What was that role? Eliakim could grant access to the king or not. to the king’s house or not. Jesus is in the position to do that as far as access to God. It will be Jesus who decides who has access to God. God has given him that authority and who does not. That’s what having the key means. Now, what’s interesting here is a few verses later in verse 9, he’s talking to the church. He says, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie. Indeed, I will make them come and worship before your feet and know that I have loved you. Now, what apparently was going on here is in Philadelphia, the synagogue, the Jewish synagogue, was persecuting the church. As we read in the book of Acts, it happened in many, many cities. The churches were persecuted by the Jewish synagogue. And Jesus refers to them as a fake synagogue. He calls them the synagogue of Satan. They say they’re Jews, but he doesn’t recognize them as such. They’re a synagogue of Satan instead. But he says, I’m going to turn the tables and they’ll eventually come and bow before you and acknowledge that I loved you. I believe that will be on the judgment day. But the point seems to be, and many commentators believe this is so, that the Jews were trying to tell the Christians, you know, you’re not Jews, so you can’t have access to our God. You don’t get to come to use our God. You’re not circumcised. You’re not part of our synagogues. And when Jesus said, I’m the one who opens and closes, and no one else has any authority to do that, he’d be suggesting in that context. Yet these Jews of the synagogue may be, you know, excluding the Christians. And we know the synagogues did eventually exclude Jewish believers in Christ. They may be kicking you out, but their opinion isn’t what matters. I’m the one who has the key. I’m the one who, if I let you in, no one can keep you out. If I open the door for you, no one can shut it. If I shut the door, no one can open it. So that’s what the key of David, that’s the context of the reference to the key of David. It’s simply talking about, in the original case, in Isaiah 22, 22, how Eliakim would have a special position of privilege in the house of Hezekiah to admit or not admit people, to have an audience with the king, And Jesus is saying, yeah, I’m in that position too, only with God. You know, I can let you come before God. These Jews who are refusing to acknowledge you, they will acknowledge you someday. They will come about your feet and they’ll acknowledge that I loved you. But at this point, you don’t have to worry about their opinion, he’s saying, because my opinion is the only one that will matter. I’m the one who admits people and excludes them, not them. All right, I’m going to take a break here just for a few seconds, and then we’re going to come back with another half hour coming. At this point, we just take a moment to let you know that The Narrow Path is listener-supported. You might notice there have been no commercials. We don’t have any products for sale or any sponsors, but we do pay lots of money to radio stations. If you’d like to help us stay on the air, you can write to The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730. Temecula, California, 92593, or go to our website, thenarrowpath.com. I’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 01 :
As you know, the Narrow Path radio show is Bible radio that has nothing to sell you but everything to give you. So do the right thing and share what you know with your family and friends. Tell them to tune in to the Narrow Path on this radio station or go to thenarrowpath.com where they will find topical audio teachings, blog articles, verse-by-verse teachings, and archives of all the radio shows. You know listeners supported Narrow Path with Steve Gregg? Share what you know.
SPEAKER 09 :
Welcome back to The Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for another half hour, taking your calls. If you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith, feel free to give me a call. Actually, I’m looking at a full switchboard now, so don’t call right now, but if you want to call a little later, the number is 844-484-4844. 57 37 And our next caller today is David from Worcester, Massachusetts. Hi David.
SPEAKER 04 :
Welcome Hi, how you doing today? All right Yes, I have a question. I like to read. I’m historian like Exodus and and I and I catch my eye of Pharaoh and I was wondering because I was reading the passage and And I like to do historian warfare, like a strategist warfare of all kings, how they fight wars. And it caught my eye on Exodus, you know, 20, around the area that Pharaoh’s army go after the Jews of the land, the water expand. But I tried to think, like the king of Babylon that he says, this is my kingdom, and God gave him seven years with the animals. And I was wondering if Pharaoh drowned or he didn’t drown or God just destroys his army so he could get embarrassed because back then a king, you destroy a big army, the king’s honor goes down the ground, like he loses. So I don’t know if he drowned or not he didn’t drown.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, that’s something that is kind of impossible to tell from what we’re told. For one thing, we don’t even know which pharaoh it was. Historians have different opinions as to which pharaoh it is because all the kings of Egypt were called pharaoh. And so when a man is simply called pharaoh, it’s just like calling him king. without giving his name or specific identity. And there are a number of pharaohs in the book of Exodus. There’s the pharaoh that was living when Joseph came down there, There was another pharaoh that rose up and imprisoned or enslaved the Jews. And he’s the one that Moses fled from. And then there’s the pharaoh that Moses confronted after that pharaoh had died. So, you know, there’s like three different pharaohs and none of them are named for us. We don’t know which ones who. So, you know, there are mummies and sarcophagi of pharaohs from that general period. whose bodies, you know, are mummified and known, and which apparently didn’t get, you know, sunk in the river or the sea. So, you know, we don’t know which Pharaoh it was, and the Bible doesn’t tell us. It does say that the Pharaoh pursued them, but this can be a way of just saying he sent his armies in pursuit to them. I mean, the terminology could mean that. So it’s not really known whether Pharaoh died or not in that situation. We know, of course, he’s dead now. And there are people who think that Pharaoh did die in the Red Sea, but I’m not sure. I mean, the Bible, it’s interesting, it avoids mentioning that specifically. And it seems to me like maybe that would be a significant enough thing that it would mention it if he did die in it. So he was, my guess is he probably did not go into the danger zone when the sea parted. That would be so surreal and terrifying. I mean, we know that Pharaoh was afraid of things less terrifying than that at times. He was, you know, he was afraid of the serpent that Moses cast his rod down and became a serpent as Pharaoh fled from it. You know, Moses, when he showed himself capable of bringing plagues of flies and frogs and water-drained blood, Pharaoh very clearly had moments, at least, where he was frightened. I would imagine if he watched the whole sea open up and the waters on either side like a wall, as it says in Scripture, he probably would defer from going down into that danger zone, probably just sent his armies. So I’m thinking he survived it, but surviving with all your armies wiped out, and your economy wiped out by the locusts and all the plagues and stuff, and your cattle dead and everything like that, and the firstborn of everyone dead, including your own, I would say that he was pretty wiped out. He probably wished he was dead. But I don’t have an answer because the Bible doesn’t give the answer. And if we knew which Pharaoh it was, we might be able to tell from the Egyptian remains whether the Pharaoh’s body is there or not, whether that Pharaoh’s body is there. So we’re going to have to be left uncertain about that. We don’t really have specific information. Thank you for calling. Okay, let’s talk to Craig from Orlando, Florida. Craig, welcome.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, Steve, how are you doing, sir? Good, thanks. Yeah, I got a quick question about the Bible, about the Israel, the Palestine’s. I know the Bible, where I’ve been in Adventist on my life, it tells about the persecution of the second coming of Jesus Christ. Can you tell me about that?
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m not sure what you’re referring to here. The persecution at the second coming of Christ, you’re saying?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 09 :
What do you mean? The persecution of Christians at the time that Jesus comes? Or you mean before that? What are you referring to?
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m referring to a thing, I think it’s after, before, I’m not sure. I read a Bible because I’m trying to get a good communication. When Jesus comes back, we don’t know by the time by now, but I want to know. If Jesus comes very, very soon, when the persecution comes, it’s a Christians and Jews going to be saved? I’m not sure.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, and by the persecution, are you talking about what they call the tribulation? Is that what you’re referring to?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, I’ll just put it this way. The Bible does say that persecution and tribulation can be expected by all Christians. The Bible says through much tribulation we enter the kingdom of God. The Bible says all who would live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. You know, Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 3 to the Thessalonians, you heard that you would suffer persecution as you have found to be true. Jesus in, you know, John 16, 33 said, in the world you will have tribulations. In the Sermon on the Mount, he said, blessed are you who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake. So, you know, it’s pretty clear. He said also in Mark 13, you’ll be hated by all men for my name’s sake. So there’s persecution, there’s tribulation that all Christians are promised will be experiencing. Now, there are people who believe that there’s a special time of tribulation and persecution here. at the very end of the age before Jesus comes back. And I think that’s the context of your question. Some people call that the Great Tribulation. That’s not a view that is universally held. The Bible is not absolutely clear on exactly what things will be like just before Jesus comes back. Most people think there’s a seven-year tribulation before Jesus comes back. The Bible actually never mentions a seven-year tribulation in any passage at all. You know, this idea is a patchwork of passages that say different things. And when you patch them all together and you make them all be about the same thing, which may not be a valid thing to do, then you can come up with a defense for like a seven-year tribulation. But it’s not something the Bible clearly teaches anywhere. So if you’re wondering, see, I’m not quite sure what it is you’re wondering, but if you’re wondering, will Christians be persecuted before Jesus comes back? And you mentioned Jews too, Jews and Christians. Probably. I mean, I think persecution of Christians is a very normal thing throughout the past 2,000 years. I think it will probably continue to be. As far as Jews being persecuted, yeah, they’ve been persecuted pretty regularly too throughout history. So although the Bible doesn’t actually specifically mention that Christians and Jews would be persecuted particularly severely at the end, many people believe that that is the case. But I don’t know if it’s the case. All I can say is whether it gets worse at the end or not, we need to be prepared for very severe tribulation and persecution, even if we’re not living at the end. Back when I was younger, communism controlled a quarter of the world. And Christians in communist countries were often, especially preachers, were arrested and tortured and kept in prison and sometimes killed. That happened a lot to Christians. It’s still happening in some places in the world today. Now, for these people, if someone said, oh, it’s really going to get a lot worse before Jesus comes back, I think they’d say, I’m not really sure how it could be any worse than this. I’m being tortured every day. I’m barely hanging on to life. I mean, this is Throughout history, there have been Christians treated this way. So I don’t really know that, I don’t even know how the Bible would even express that. an exceptionally worse one for Christians because there have been lots of seasons throughout the past 2,000 years where Christians have been terribly treated and Jewish people too for different reasons but I’m wondering if your question is coming from maybe the question of whether there’s going to be a rapture of the church before the tribulation and then Jesus is going to come back after the tribulation lots of people teach that and I don’t know of anything in the Bible that teaches that. And again, it’s not that I’m a new Bible reader and I just haven’t read the whole thing yet, so I’m not sure if it’s in there somewhere. I’ve taught through the Bible verse by verse over 20 times, and the more I teach it, the less I see any indication that there is such a pre-tribulation rapture. Though I thought there was when I first started out, but my view has changed on that. But I just say don’t even worry about that because we don’t know if Jesus is coming back you know, tomorrow or if he’s coming back in 100 years or 1,000 years from now. The Bible says it’s not for us to know that. What is for us to know is that Jesus wants us to occupy until he comes and to be filled with the Spirit and be his witnesses throughout the world. That’s what he told his disciples that he wanted them to do. So that’s, yeah, that’d be, I hope that helps you. Thank you, Craig. Thank you very much, Steve. I appreciate it. God bless. Okay, Craig. God bless you, too. Good to hear from you. All right. Greg from Webster, Massachusetts. Got a lot of New England callers today. There’s a Connecticut caller waiting, too. Hi, Greg. Welcome.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hello, Steve. Hi. First of all, thank you so much for your ministry. I get very encouraged from your teachings. I have a question on tithing. I have a question on tithing. I had gone through some self-imposed stupidity with spending money I shouldn’t have on things I thought I needed. And I was a regular tither for a long time, and I’m obviously feeling some guilt. I haven’t tithed this year. And I love the scripture in Malachi that says we can test the Lord. I don’t like the idea of testing the Lord, but he does say that. My question is, do you… off the top of your head have any scriptures I could meditate on to get back to tithing.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, are you in debt? Is that why you’re not able to tithe? You’ve got credit card debts and stuff like that?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, self-imposed. Yeah, self-imposed. I appreciate that. Not sinful in terms of addiction, but just stupid.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, well, you know, when you’re in debt… that money isn’t really yours to tithe on. It’s not even yours to spend on. You need to pay your creditors.
SPEAKER 08 :
Which is what I’m trying to do, and I was brought up that way. But I also, you know, I guess it’s a faith issue. I’m just trying so hard and praying that I would be entered the faith to step out and get back to that 10% tithe.
SPEAKER 09 :
Let me just say, okay, the New Testament does not impose… the obligation of tithing on anyone. That’s an Old Testament teaching. The purpose of tithing, and the word tithe is an Old English word that means tenth. So it speaks of giving a tenth. And in the Old Testament, when God erected the tabernacle and he appointed the Levites to serve full time there, he said that the other tribes of Israel needed to bring a tenth of their tithing produce from their crops and bring it to the tabernacle, and it would be, that tenth would support the Levites. And that was the idea, that there was a full-time staff working at the tabernacle, and they needed to be supported, so the tenth of the gross national product of the nation was brought to the tabernacle to support the Levites. Now, we don’t have the Levites anymore. We don’t have the tabernacle anymore. We do have things, though, that we could say are the antitype of those. The tabernacle and the temple were a type, I believe, of the church, which is built out of living stones into a holy spiritual house, the temple of the Holy Spirit. You know, Levites, I guess we could say they might be parallel to people who are in full-time ministry today, perhaps. although the Bible doesn’t necessarily say so, but you could see it that way in principle. There are people who work full-time in ministry and should be able to eat. So you could kind of take the whole concept of the tithe and say, well, I guess we should support the brethren, we should support ministry, and so forth. And the New Testament does say that those who minister in spiritual things should be able to receive support in the area of material things. And it says in 1 Timothy chapter 6 that those who are taught should share with those who teach them. No, that’s Galatians. I’m sorry. There’s also something about that in Timothy, but that’s Galatians 6, that those who are taught should share in all good things with those who teach them. So supporting ministry, supporting the work of God, I say supporting missionaries, full-time ministers, that’s something that is a New Testament obligation, but we’re never told that we’re supposed to take a tenth of our income and do that. I believe a tenth is not a New Testament idea. However, it’s not a bad starting point. I personally believe that anyone who can should be giving more than that to promote the gospel. And those who can’t even give a tenth, I don’t think they should be legalistically forced to do so. Now, when you’ve got debt, technically, of course, you don’t own a lot of money because even what you have technically might be said to belong to your creditors. Although, if you’re on a payment plan with them and you’re making your regular payments, then they’re not asking for their money back. They’re asking for only this much per month. In which case, if you can service those debts and still have enough to live on and enough to give, then that’s fine. That’s a great thing to do. And if you can give 10%, all the better. I believe God does bless when we make sacrifices. But here’s the thing. We can’t make sacrifices. We can’t give to God what is owed to a creditor. So if you’ve got X amount of dollars you’re supposed to pay on your credit card bill every month, and you’re just barely able to pay that, you should still pay it. Now, if you’re going to give something to God, I think you should cut back on your other expenses, even if you have to cut back your standard of living. in order to give to God. Now, that’s making a sacrifice, you know, because that’s the money that you really have, you know, access to. You’ve got to pay your debts. And, of course, that’s going to limit the amount of, you know, elective money you have to live on and to give. But if you’re going to give, you should give it from that which you have after your debt payments each month have been made. Okay. And maybe you won’t be able to give 10%. But you could try. I mean, you could say, okay, what would 10% of that money be? Okay, get that figure. Figure out what it would be. And say, how much of that could I give right now? Well, maybe I couldn’t give that much. Maybe a third that much. Well, can I get the other two-thirds from somewhere? That is, can I work a second job? Can I – Could I cut back on some of my entertainment or on some of the luxuries in my life? I mean, some people asking themselves those questions say, nope, we’re already down to the bare bones. I’m not saying that you can do that. I’m saying you should ask yourself that. I would say if you are servicing your debt on a regular basis and every penny that’s left over you need to feed your family, then I don’t think you should be giving to the church until you pay off one of those debts. and there’s different ways of getting your debts paid off. There are Christian counseling ministries that counsel how to get your finances in order and stuff. But as far as giving goes, if you say, well, I’m going to cut out – I’m going to take a tenth of my income, and after I’ve paid all my monthly debt payments, I’m going to give that tenth – to the church or to missionaries or whatever. I’m going to give it to God, help the poor. And then I’ll live on whatever’s left. And I’ll trust God to make it possible to do that. You can do that. And I’ve known lots of people When I was growing up in the church, the church I went to wanted people to tithe, and they’d have people give testimonies that, you know, I didn’t use to tithe because I didn’t have enough money, but I made a commitment to tithe, and I started giving the first 10% away to the church. And it was amazing. God somehow made it possible for us to live on the other 90% just as well. And I heard that testimony a lot. But, you know, I just think we should be good stewards of the money we have. Paying off debt is, I think, tearing up your credit card is a pretty important first step. Get rid of the credit card, get rid of all credit lines, and start paying that debt off in a way that your creditor agrees to. And then from what’s left, give what you think you can. And if you feel like, well, I’m going to trust God, I’m going to start giving 10%, even though I don’t feel I can afford it, and see if God will bless that. He might. He’s done that for people. But I’m not saying you have to do that. If you say, well, I have to give 10% or else I’m robbing God, like Malachi 3 says. Now, Malachi was written to Jews under the Jewish law, not to Christians. But But there is a promise there that if you do manage God’s finances in a faithful way, he can open the windows of heaven on you and pour out a blessing. So I’d encourage you to just do what you can and maybe just a little bit more than you think you can to see if that’s possible. But get those debts paid off as soon as you can. That would definitely be the first thing, I think.
SPEAKER 08 :
Wonderful.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right. Thanks for your call, brother. Let’s see. We don’t have a lot of time left. Let’s talk to Fred from Alameda, California. Fred, welcome.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hi. I know this guy, and I told you about him a long time ago, the first time I started calling you. He struggles with intemperance, and He takes position, he’ll say, man cannot be good. We’re all evil and we need God’s grace. I just wanted to ask you, in your opinion, do we, is that true? Are we all evil and we all need God’s grace? Or do we become evil by doing that which is evil?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, we’ve already become evil. We became evil in our childhood. And when you do evil, you become in bondage to it. So we do have habits of evil that keep us in bondage until God gives us the ability to overcome them. Now, in Galatians 5, Paul said in verse 16, I say, then walk in the spirit and you should not fulfill the lust of the flesh. He says, For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, the Spirit against the flesh. These are contrary to one another so that you do not do the things you want to do. That is, you don’t unless you’re walking in the Spirit. If you do walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Now, what are the lusts of the flesh? Verse 18 says, He says in verse 19, Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like, of which I tell you beforehand, just as I told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. So Paul says if this is the way you’re living… It’s not okay. You won’t inherit the kingdom of God if you do that. Now, someone says, well, but we’re sinners. We all sin. Right, but he said you should walk in the Spirit, and then you won’t be fulfilling the lust of the flesh. The Spirit of God is the unique benefit given to us as Christians, which enables us to overcome the power of sin in our lives on a day-by-day, moment-by-moment basis. Now, after it lists all these things that are of the flesh, it says in verse 22, But the fruit of the Spirit, and this is what is produced in your life if you’re walking in the Spirit, as he says to do, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, temperance, or self-control. Against such there is no law. Now, the last one he lists is self-control. You mentioned your friend’s problem is a matter of intemperance, which means lack of self-control. You didn’t mention, you know, if that means in drinking alcohol or eating or other things. I mean, if you spend too much money and you don’t have any sales resistance, you need self-control. If you drink too much, you need self-control. If you’re a glutton, you need self-control. You know, there’s lots of things you may need self-control about. Now, your friend needs self-control. He says, well, I can’t help it. I’m a sinner. Well, yes, you are a sinner, which is why you need to walk in the Spirit. Because if you do walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. If you walk in the Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit, among other things, is temperance or self-control. If you don’t walk in the Spirit, the works of the flesh are things like drunkenness and all that stuff. which he says those who do those things will not inherit the kingdom of God. So I would suggest that you look at Galatians 5, verses 16 through 23, and you’ll find that that’s the answer to your friend’s objection. There is no excuse for living an intemperate life if you’re a Christian because you have the Holy Spirit. Now you’re supposed to live like that. All right, looks like he hung up around the same time I was ready to hang up. Okay, let’s see. We don’t have, we’re pretty much out of time. We’ve got other calls waiting, but I don’t have time. But it is early in the week. Hopefully these callers can call back tomorrow. At this point, I need to simply make some announcements that I would make when I only have a few seconds left at the end of the program. The main thing is that I will be speaking in the Minneapolis area this weekend, three days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I’ll be speaking each of those days. We’re going to be talking about eschatological subjects. That has to do with, of course, end times stuff. I’ll be talking about the book of Revelation. I’ll be talking about signs of the times. I’ll be talking about Christ’s reigning from the throne of David. Anyway, those are the things that are on the list. If you are in Minnesota and are interested in that or near there, go to our website, thenarrowpath.com. Look under announcements, and that’s where you’ll see the time and place and the subject I’ll be speaking about of each of these meetings. That’s this weekend, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. You don’t have to come to all three. You can come to any one of them or two that you want. But you’ll find out where they are as you go to thenarrowpath.com. and look under announcements. The information is there. The Narrow Path is a listener-supported ministry. If you’d like to write to us, the address is The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. It’s also possible, if you want to donate, you can do so from the website, which again is thenarrowpath.com.
