Listen in as we delve into the controversial topics of evolution and creationism, discussing how these ideologies have shaped societal morals over recent decades. Tom Rogers questions the widespread acceptance of evolution without interference of intelligence, painting a picture of a society adversely affected by the disassociation from a moral compass. We discuss the pivotal changes in education post the 1963 Supreme Court ruling, how it’s shaped generations, and what the ‘Darwin’s Replacement’ series suggests moving forward.
Evolution is the cause of life, so we don’t need a God for anything. And that’s what’s taught in our public schools. And kids are getting depressed, anxious, suicidal. It’s really a tragedy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Intelligent design and DNA Scholars can’t explain it all away.
SPEAKER 1 :
Get ready to be awed by the handiwork of God. Tune into Real Science Radio.
SPEAKER 03 :
Turn up the Real Science Radio. Keeping it real.
SPEAKER 05 :
Welcome to Real Science Radio. Today we welcome Tom Rogers, founder of the Atomic Biology Institute and author of the book, God’s Biology, Darwin’s Replacement. We’re diving into a revolutionary approach to understanding life. not from the cells down, but from atoms up. That’s right.
SPEAKER 02 :
And Fred, for those who think science and the Bible can’t coexist, or science has you questioning your faith, today’s conversation is one that you will want to hear. So let’s start at the top, Tom. What is atomic biology, and how is it different from traditional microbiology?
SPEAKER 04 :
Here’s the difference in that it’s all about who is stacking the atoms to make every living cell, okay? I started this as a curiosity like three decades ago. And as I put things together, it got more and more fascinating. But it started with this idea from grade five science that material things are made of atoms, okay? All material things are made of atoms, including our skin, our cheekbones, our everything. And so there’s where the atoms come in now. The next thing is that when you start stacking atoms into living cells, it takes way more intelligence than mankind has, okay? Because man’s been trying for over 70 years to make a living cell out of atoms, and we cannot come anywhere close. The best lab is probably J. Craig Venter’s lab. involved with the Human Genome Project, and he can make a copy of little pieces of a cell and transplant them into a living cell, but… With our vast accumulation of scientific knowledge over the centuries and our sophisticated equipment, highly sophisticated equipment, we cannot come close to making a living cell. And God is doing that by the billions, like every second of every day for every one of us.
SPEAKER 02 :
Really? Every second of every day by the billions?
SPEAKER 04 :
By the billions, absolutely. What do you mean? Well, my favorite example that turned me from a part-time curiosity to full-time investigation and research was looking at red blood cells. And a fellow by the name of Pallister says that a 150-pound male, as his example, okay, a 150-pound male gets about 2.3 million new red blood cells every second, okay?
SPEAKER 02 :
Whoa, wait. Every second? You mean like 1,001? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
okay so our red blood cells do wear out in about 120 days whether male or female it’s about the same and they have to be replaced with new ones because they quit absorbing oxygen efficiently and delivering that to all parts of our body through our bloodstream and they have to pick up carbon dioxide, bring that back and expel it through our breath. So that’s what red blood cells are doing, as well as delivering other nutrients and so on all over our body. So for 150 pounder, about 2.3 million new red blood cells every second, 24-7. Now, A fellow by the name of Tortora says that every single red blood cell has about 280 million molecules of hemoglobin. And Max Perud says every molecule of hemoglobin has about 10,000 correct atoms, correct atoms. So these have to be found correctly. sorted, selected, counted, and precisely placed to the tune of 6,400 quadrillion correct atoms per second, 24-7. So, okay, this is just for our red blood cells. You can take your own weight and put it over 150, okay, so let’s say you’re 200 pounds, you put that over 150, multiply it times 6,400 quadrillion, and that’s how many atoms God is working with for your red blood cells, okay?
SPEAKER 05 :
So you’re saying that God’s having to work with a lot more red blood cells on me than probably you and Doug. I’m probably close to a 200-pound male, or even a little more, but not much more. Well, listen, Fred… God works smarter for me than he does you guys.
SPEAKER 04 :
We might have to take out those numbers.
SPEAKER 02 :
And so, Fred, we will put the equation in the show summary on the website, but that’s pretty mind-boggling. But I think I heard you say… In your description, I think you let the cat out of the bag as to what is causing all these atoms to come together properly. It’s obviously, you said selection, they have to be selected. Right. And so obviously that’s natural selection, right?
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh no. Natural selection doesn’t have any intelligence to use. The evolutionists make a big point. that no intelligence is used in the evolutionary process. And that’s where they’re so far off base. And I quote an honest evolutionist from Harvard, biology professor. And this quote is worth hearing because this is where the problem comes from. It’s this worldview. And if I can indulge you for a minute here, this is Richard Lewontin, Harvard professor, biology, evolutionary biology. We take the side of evolutionary science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment. a commitment to materialism, it is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated, Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a divine foot in the door. Bottom line. We cannot allow a divine foot in the door. And that’s what public education biology is all about.
SPEAKER 02 :
And Lewontin said it. Lewontin said it. And that’s written down, right? You haven’t just made that up.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, it’s from an article he did about billions and billions of demons. That was the title of the article.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, billions and billions of demons. Okay, well, I’m going to look that up. Because I want to give another quote from Lewontin from the last chapter of his book, Biology as Ideology. That’s his book. So, not to put too fine a point on what you just said, but the title of his book is Biology as Ideology. He argued that while traditional Darwinism has portrayed the organism as a passive recipient of environmental influences… The correct understanding in his mind is that we should emphasize, science teachers and educators should emphasize the organism as an active constructor of its own environment. So Lewontin argued with the evolutionists here. if it’s possible, from an even more godless position, because he’s basically affirming Romans 1.25, being one of those who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever, amen? And so, Tom, you’re quoting Lewontin, who is an icon of, I think, neo-Darwinism. When Darwinism became… too ridiculous, and the math just didn’t work for so many years, there was a pivot to this so-called neo-Darwinism in which now the creature itself is somehow the center of the intelligence in order to create itself. But you’re describing an intelligence that’s far beyond the possession of any creature, at least from what I hear.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, that’s right. And man, scientists have been trying for over 70 years to make a living cell, a living cell out of elements. And we can’t come close, even with all this vast accumulation of scientific knowledge, highly sophisticated equipment. And the best that can be done at the moment is the J. Craig Venter lab, where he can actually copy little pieces of a cell, of an existing living cell, and copy a little piece, transplant it into another living cell that keeps on living. That’s as close as we can get.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, but you know what he can do? He can then publish a paper talking about what he’s doing, and then that paper is presented by the scientific establishment and educators as if he’s done something. And that’s what they do.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, now Venter himself is honest enough to say that they are not creating life in the lab, even though a lot of evolutionists say that that’s what’s happening, but it’s not. That’s a very important distinction. The other part of this is that evolutionists are saying that no intelligence is needed. I mean, as you probably know, people like Discovery Institute have been taken to court along with the school that tried to introduce intelligent design and shut down, basically. the intelligent design part, because the evolutions want to stick with this idea that no intelligence is needed, because their process doesn’t have any. Okay. So that’s a very important point here.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, and Lewontin let the cat out of the bag when he said, we can’t have any. We can’t, because that would point to God, and he’s terrified of God.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, exactly. And unfortunately, this is because they are deceived, okay? You know, I decided that we don’t talk enough about public enemy number one, old Satan himself, because I think that he picked up on Darwin’s concept of no intelligence needed, and that is now used to separate our students from their Creator. Evolution is the cause of life, so we don’t need a God for anything. And that’s what’s taught in our public schools. And kids are getting depressed, anxious, suicidal. It’s really a tragedy because, number one, their moral compass has been removed. back in 1983. So, 1963? Pardon me, 63, yeah. What happened in 1963 that changed things?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, you may remember the name Madeline Murray O’Hara.
SPEAKER 04 :
And in 1963, she and some of her atheist friends convinced the Supreme Court of the United States to remove the reciting of the Lord’s Prayer and Bible reading from public school classrooms. And almost immediately, like you young guys, you maybe weren’t around then. I was. Okay. And what started happening, I don’t know if you heard of Woodstock, but The kids started going nuts with LSD was the big drug of the day. And this idea of free love, you know, sex for everybody, no holds barred, the moral compass is gone. And of course, there are a lot of unwanted babies. And then with that, some deadbeat dads, the anxiety, depression of the mothers and their parents. And things just started going downhill. Kids got suicidal. And without our moral compass, you know, kids don’t have a guidepost. And their parents, if they’ve got good parents, that can certainly be a help. higher education, post-secondary education now, the stats say, and I think this is from Barna, that about 75% of the students that entered college or university with their belief in God intact, okay, belief in Jesus intact, they’re graduating without it. That’s getting persuaded. 75% of the Christians that entered college are graduating without their belief So I see millions of souls being lost because of this false teaching that the Bible warns us about.
SPEAKER 05 :
I’ve been busy trying to find a quote from Thomas Huxley. He was Darwin’s bulldog. I haven’t found it, but it’s basically paraphrasing something like, you know, the beauty of Darwinism is just unleashing our ability just to do whatever we want with sex. And so that allowed him to have this worldview to try to justify whatever behavior he wanted to do. You know, another thing about 1963 or thereabouts, I was giving a talk at a Lutheran high school some years ago, and the biology teacher who was a young earth creationist, he had mentioned something that was really interesting to me, and I confirmed it afterwards that Another thing they were doing was pushing evolution into the textbooks. And the logic they were using was, well, the Russians are ahead of us in the space war. And so we’re behind on science. We need to get more science in the textbooks. And so at the same time they’re taking prayer out of the schools, they’re also injecting the theory of evolution. And those two effects combined over time just had a huge moral impact on our society. In fact, we’re showing some slides right now that show the different things that have happened over time.
SPEAKER 04 :
And leaders like Hitler that were big believers in evolution. And Darwin, unfortunately, was a racist, as you probably know. And he condoned this idea of superior races and so on, and Hitler picked up on that, and then hence the Holocaust.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, it was in the title of his book, you know, Favored Races. The Origin of Species, and then, you know, a lot of times they don’t show you that second, his subtitle.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, yeah, they leave that out.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, so…
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, so I call it subtle Satan’s powerful ploy to separate students from their Creator. By the use of Darwinisms as the origin and cause of life. No God needed. All wrong.
SPEAKER 02 :
No God wanted. No God wanted. And so you asked a question when you sent me some notes before the show. The question you asked… that I think you want to pose to teachers is, is it important to teach students the truth about life?
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, and so any rational person would immediately answer, yes, it’s important to teach… children about the truth so how is it that if everybody answers yes to that question including the teachers in every single public school if you asked every single teacher is it important to teach children the truth about life they would say yes so how is it that most of them are not how does that happen well first of all the teaching of evolution is compulsory
SPEAKER 04 :
And you may have heard of a documentary called Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed, with Ben Stein leading and showing the causes of professors in university who dared to suggest to their students that there may be some intelligence in the way living things are made. Out the door! Not a rap on the knuckles. Don’t say that to your class anymore. You’re fired. And that’s a penalty. Now, I see today there is an actual fear of leaving evolution out of the picture. So hence you get, you know, people like Francis Collins, with Biologos and so on, trying to combine evolution with a creator, okay? Theistic evolution, evolutionary creation, and You know, evolution is an unguided process. That’s the whole point that they’re teaching. It’s an unguided process according to their doctrine. And so how can you have a guided, by God, unguided process? It’s like mixing oil and water. It doesn’t work.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, it’s sad.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s sad to see a Christian… There is this fear of leaving evolution out of the picture. And that’s got to change. You know, this deception and that Satan had worked for sure. And we’re going to start talking about him a bit more because he’s a troublemaker.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. And so, Tom, you mentioned that these people are deceived and that’s very kind of you. I think that, you know, we can all be deceived when we’re children because we don’t know anything. But once you become an adult, there comes a point where you’re no longer deceived. you’re now a deceiver and so a lot of the people in the in the government schools who are teaching children lies about their origins they’re not just deceived they’re deceivers yeah and and so teaching the truth to children for the lost and i think i think in government mandated education I think it’s a requirement that you be lost. It’s required that you do not know Jesus Christ, that you’re not familiar with the Bible, and you’re certainly never going to bring that up. And so for the lost, teaching the truth is not as important as justifying their own sin. And so if you’re not… I don’t know if this is even legal to say this in Canada. If you’re not a Christian… you’re not qualified to be a teacher. You’ve disqualified yourself from being a teacher, but we live in a world where the exact opposite is being enforced, like you said, by mandate.
SPEAKER 04 :
Here’s another situation. Nobody yet, I mean, we’re just starting to teach Autonomic Biology, okay? So this is not widely known. So far, as most people are concerned, evolution is the cause of life because they haven’t learned anything else. And there isn’t an alternative. Now, I like the Discovery Institute guys a lot. I’ve been a member there for years, and they wouldn’t even mention God by name until about two years ago, and then they, you know, Steve Meyer came out with his book called The Return of the God Hypothesis. That’s as close as they would come, out of fear, okay? Because they’ve been shot at and hit a couple of times, so… So this idea of a God-based life science has not been really preached in detail anywhere. There is creation science, but they, to my knowledge, do not talk about the the necessary, essential, finding, sorting, selecting, counting, precisely placing all of the correct atoms for every living cell. And the other part is that atoms don’t have life of their own. They have supplied energy, okay, which leads us to omnipresence. You know, there’s no perpetual motion without the addition of energy. So every atom, you know, all the electrons have a controlled supplier of energy to keep them moving perpetually forever, okay? So God
SPEAKER 02 :
is the only one that can do that so this is where his omnipresence comes in he’s in he’s in every atom okay just another sideline well and talk to us about this now so we’ve talked about the government schools we’ve talked about the mandates against the logic and science of creation but you have something ready and waiting to replace all that that’s right am i right
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s correct. That’s correct. We have what we call the Darwin’s Replacement Series. And we have a textbook. This one that you mentioned, it’s God’s Biology, Darwin’s Replacement. And we have some booklets. This is thin, cheap, and a good introduction.
SPEAKER 05 :
God is in the grocery store.
SPEAKER 04 :
I want people to get the idea and understanding that when they go in and they see all the peas and carrots and apples and oranges and things, that God made that for their life. And if he didn’t, there wouldn’t be any food and there wouldn’t be any life. So that’s how serious this whole thing is. But we need some help now. We’ve done this on our own ticket for some decades now. And it’s about 17 years full time. And now we need help to broadcast this. So we appreciate so much what you fellows are doing with Real Science Radio. This is exactly what is now needed on a broad scale. to get this message out there so that people know, yeah, there is a God-based life science, and it’s the only one that really works.
SPEAKER 05 :
So that one is, God is in the grocery store. So God is also the author of food. And so before we wrap this up, I did want to ask Doug a question. So we want to do the interesting fact of the week. why and i’ll try almost forgot yeah i’ll try to tie it to food i’m not quite sure how but so doug i’ll give you an option so i’ve got one here on sharks and i i know i don’t know how edible sharks are so i don’t know how it ties in the food or a pretty good oh is it okay oh yeah do you prefer a question between sharks or birds and i know that you might have your uh producer there by your side if she’s there it’s going to be but yeah that’s right so i can’t i i don’t want to take advantage of the fact that i have the bird whisperer right here over my shoulder so let’s go with sharks it’s one of the times that doug got the uh interesting fact of the week correct because he had the bird whisperer next to that’s okay so then i’m going to go with the shark one yeah Okay, so how many bones do sharks have in their bodies? And you can be within, you know, a thousand, let’s say. Well, no, I’m going to make it harder. Let’s see, you have to be within 500. How many bones do sharks have in their bodies?
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, so Fred, I’ve never even thought that this question would ever be asked.
SPEAKER 04 :
So… Does it depend what they’ve eaten?
SPEAKER 05 :
If sharks, yeah, you say sharks are delicious, have you ever had to… Pick bones out.
SPEAKER 02 :
No, I’ve never had shark on the bone. I’ve always had the bone out variety because I only eat fish if it’s been deep fried because that’s just the way I am. How many bones does a shark have? I’m guessing it’s not very many, okay? Okay. I’m just guessing that based on the fact that you started 1,000 and went to 500.
SPEAKER 01 :
Stop the tape, stop the tape. Hey, this is Dominic Enyart. We are out of time for today. If you want to hear the rest of this program, go to rsr.org. That’s Real Science Radio, rsr.org.
Listen in as we delve into the controversial topics of evolution and creationism, discussing how these ideologies have shaped societal morals over recent decades. Tom Rogers questions the widespread acceptance of evolution without interference of intelligence, painting a picture of a society adversely affected by the disassociation from a moral compass. We discuss the pivotal changes in education post the 1963 Supreme Court ruling, how it’s shaped generations, and what the ‘Darwin’s Replacement’ series suggests moving forward.
