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SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here’s Angie.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey there, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news. Excited to have one of the authors of After Work, an honest discussion about the retirement lie and how to live a future worthy of dreams. Alex Lippert is joining us. Welcome, Alex. Yeah, thanks so much, Angie. Excited to be here. Okay, so give us kind of a nutshell, you know, version of description of After Work and tell us about you as well.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, so the co-author, Joel Malek, and myself, we are financial planners, been in the industry for a while now. And we noticed this very interesting trend, and that is that there’s almost no correlation between wealth and having a successful retirement. And we noticed that so many folks out there retire and ultimately find some level of disappointment and emptiness. perhaps as well. And it’s a very interesting season in life. And I think we can get into this a little more later in the interview. But I think it’s one of those things that society has a narrative. Society has convinced us that retirement is a, you know, this time for comfort, this time for fun. And, you know, that’s the end of the script, essentially. Right. It’s like if somebody asks you, are you prepared for retirement? We always take that as a financial question. Right. But the real question is, if you’ve got, you know, say three or four decades ahead of you and all of a sudden you. have 16 hours a day of, quote unquote, free time. Like, what are you going to do with your life that is purposeful and fulfilling? That’s the real question.
SPEAKER 05 :
I like that because, yeah, are you prepared for retirement? We do think it means money. So let’s go to part of the title. What is the retirement lie?
SPEAKER 03 :
The retirement lie is the notion that a kind of a self-centered, a life of comfort kind of withdrawn from society, withdrawn from connectedness with others is a good thing, right? So the old, you know, right off into the sunset or sail off into the sunset, um, you know, you’ve poured your, yourself into others, you know, during your quote unquote career years, whether that’s raising children at home, running a business, being an employee somewhere at a company or an organization, um, I mean, we pour ourselves into these places and almost every retirement book on the planet says, Hey, now it’s your turn. You know, like you’ve, you’ve saved all this money, poured yourself into these other things. Now it’s time for you to enjoy kind of the fruits of your labor, sit back, relax, you know, the old rocking chair analogy, imagery, you know, those things. And I just think those things, you know, those fun things aren’t bad. So yeah, In our book, After Work, we talk about all of those fun bucket list things like travel and golf or pickleball or all of those kind of home projects and gardening and things that have been on your list because you’ve been too busy during the busy season of life. And now you can get to those. To us, those are critical components of the season. So don’t get us wrong. We like those things too. But they really need to be the garnish on the plate, right? They need to be the parsley or the salt and pepper – to kind of enhance and add some extra flavor to the season, but they can’t be your main dish.
SPEAKER 05 :
I love it. All right. You know, we think that you mentioned, you know, being comfortable, you know, in retirement, having fun, et cetera. And in your book, you encourage us to embrace the uncomfortable and why, and what do you mean by that? Pardon me.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, that’s a really, really, really good question. It’s been my experience in life that when I get outside of my comfort zone, that’s where the good stuff happens. You know, that’s where I make the real memories. You know, if I just have a easygoing kind of hangout, kind of weekend, a couple weekends down the road, I couldn’t tell you what I did that weekend. But if I challenge myself, if I go serve others, if I go climb a mountain, if I do something that’s kind of a little bit dramatic maybe in my life and something that kind of pulls at my heartstrings and challenges me in a lot of different respects, that’s always memorable. And so I think, you know, what’s memorable in your life and what’s truly impacting, you know, you and your soul and kind of others, I mean, that’s what sticks. And so that’s an indication, I think, of How do we pursue purpose and fulfillment in our lives? Because that’s a very relative thing, right? We’re all very different. And so one thing is to get a little outside of your comfort zone, challenge yourself, and see what happens. It may not always be the perfect solution that you’re going to then pour yourself into for the next multiple decades, but it also could be. So you just got to make the effort, have the courage, Step out of your kind of your comfort zone box and just go for it. See what happens.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, I think about, you know, my dad and I were estranged for like 35 years. He had a real problem with alcohol, et cetera, and really tore apart our family. And I lost two brothers, one to murder and another to drug addiction. He’s that one still alive. But with that said, I have to say. And the way that he lived the latter part of his life, he passed away not long ago. We came back, you know, forgiveness is a big thing for me. And so when he contacted me probably about a decade ago, I let him meet my kids. and my husband and we started doing things with him and I have to say the difference between my mom’s retirement life and my dad’s like he did Tai Chi three times a day. He played chess every single day. He still taught Tai Chi. We’d go to these family camps where he taught Tai Chi. He was a retired professor and he’d still do things like he had a jet ski and he’d go down on the river and they’d go canoeing and he got a Corvette convertible and drove with his long gray beard and his long gray hair in the wind and He wore a headband like an old hippie. Like he was a character in his mid 80s. He was doing all these things. He went to Nashville on one of his bucket list trips. And he he everywhere we went, people screamed out Willie Nelson because he has got the long hair and all. And he came out of the bathroom once at this concert where I took him and he had a light up cowboy hat that had sparkling lights everywhere on it. It was like, who are you? He learned how to line dance with me. He’d try anything. He was terrible at line dancing, but he didn’t care. I got video of him. It was so funny. We did it together. But my mom is very much like, oh, gosh, it’s weird because my dad did desert us. But then with the forgiveness and my faith, it’s such a cornerstone. I had to show my kids that faith in action. But my mom… You know, complaining a lot. She’s a victim. You know, just doesn’t really do anything. Doesn’t have any friends. Doesn’t get out. Just very, I don’t know, complacent. Her retirement does not seem fulfilling to me. Like, she’s lived with us for like 20 years. She just moved out and moved in with my brother. But you’d think that like, oh, with the kids, you want to bake cookies. You want to get up and have breakfast with them. Do you want to, you know, plan something with them? I’ll take you to the movies. No, nothing. Just downstairs watching Wheel of Fortune and what’s another one? Jeopardy. And I’m like, okay, as much as my dad wasn’t there for me growing up, I really admire – and he’d read books all the time on different religions and this and that because he knew I was a Christian. And sometimes he’d want to like, why don’t you read about other religions? I’m like, no, I’m good with mine for right now. Like I can read about them, but, you know, I’m happy. Just let me have this. But it just was – they were so different. I mean, my mom’s still alive, but they are such different people. So I get it that you’re saying to us that – not just like having a purpose is a big part of retirement. Is that what you’re, if you’re just joining us, I’m talking to Alex Lippert and the book is after work and honest discussion about how retire the retirement lie and how to live a future worthy of dreams. So you’re saying we have to have a purpose.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. And purpose as a concept is kind of this ambiguous concept, right? Right. You might ask like, well, what’s, what’s purpose. And it’s like, well, I think, when you pursue purpose, ultimately happiness is a byproduct of that. But purpose comes from effort. Purpose comes from, you know, like we talked about getting out of your comfort zone. And I think for me, I look at a retiree like your mom’s story, right? I think, you know, when you’re at the retirement age, whenever that is in your life, kind of in that latter half third of your life, you’re the most well-resourced you’ve ever been, right? You’ve got absolutely the most time you’ve ever had in your life. Presumably you have the most financial resources just because you’ve had a longer time span to save and accumulate assets and financial security. But most importantly, you have the most wisdom and experience, right? And so you have this like well-resourced toolbox at your disposal. And the problem is if society says, Hey, sit back and relax, you know, let us take it from here. um you know have a good one and it’s like no like we need we need the older generation to lean in to their experience inform all of us as much as possible you know like lean in and like you said like make memories like build a living legacy with your grandkids while you have the opportunity you know because time is so precious i mean we’re here and in a blink of an eye we’re gone um so like what kind of legacy are you going to be leaving and if you look at it you know that season of life through that lens i think all of a sudden it’s like wow like i need to get i need to get moving right like this is up to me like this is like self-directed for me to go out and really pursue purpose and fulfillment and it’s something that i think you you end up in a pursuit of fulfillment. It’s this very winding path, right? This isn’t like a linear progression of like, I’ll do this, this, and this, and then I’ll reach this fulfillment zone. It’s like this constant stretching yourself and then feeling a sense of accomplishment and then seeking something new. And it’s this process. But I think when you look back down the road in your 80s or your 90s, you absolutely, none of us want to be filled with regrets. and think that we wasted our short time here. So that’s what we’re trying to avoid with the book.
SPEAKER 05 :
Now, in terms of regrets, because you talk to a lot of people who are retired or on their way to retirement, what are some of the regrets that you hear from your clients?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, a lot of times it centers around probably one of the most important things in the season, and that’s connections. So I think A lot of times people look back and they regret not having deeper relationships with important people in their lives. You know, for instance, like your father, right? Your story about him. It was like heart-wrenching with some light at the end of the tunnel, right? And, you know, there’s just so many of us that are so busy on our to-do lists and everything that we have to do. You know, a lot of my retired clients… like act like they’re busier than I am, you know, and maybe they are. But like the question is, is what are you busy doing? Are you busy doing the to-do list and all these things that you’re just going to forget tomorrow and there’ll be water under the bridge? Or are you busy out there like making an impact and doing purposeful things, pouring into others? And so to me, I think it’s, you know, waking up one day and not having a sense of what you’ve accomplished because you haven’t been intentional enough with your time. and intentional enough with your focus. And then I think also just the connections thing. I think there’s, we, when we wrote the book, we dug into a lot of research studies and there’s just so many that are just so definitively pointing towards the conclusion of deep connections are one of the most leading indicators towards happiness. There’s actually the happiness study from Harvard. Yeah. I’m reading that book, but it’s, Yep. It’s almost a century long research study. It’s the longest research study in history. They basically took a group of Harvard, Harvard college students, a couple hundred of them. And then they took a few hundred like children living in kind of destitute conditions, you know, orphans in like the inner city. And they tracked all of these kids over the courses of their entire lives. And the one leading common denominator of ultimate,
SPEAKER 05 :
happiness was their relationships with others and how deep of a connection they had with others so it’s not a social circle it’s not how wide of a social net you have it’s the depth of your relationships so to get back to your question about alex hold that thought so then we’ll get back to my question um we got to take a break and can you stick around a little bit longer sounds great okay thank you we’ll be right back we’re talking about after work an honest discussion about the retirement lie and how to live a future worthy of dreams with alex lippert we’ll be right back
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
Greeley is listening to the mighty 670 KLT Denver.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news. Continuing the discussion with Alex Lippert, one of the authors of After Work, an honest discussion about the retirement lie and how to live a future worthy of dreams. Alex and his colleague, Joel Malik, and also with Dean Merrill. Joel and Alex have been working in wealth management and financial planning and investing. Alex isn’t far from us. He’s down in the Springs, married with six kids. And you were continue. We’re talking about the retirement and happiness and connectedness and relationships and how connected we are to people like pouring into people that that’s where the happiness comes from. And they were getting back to my question. So let’s pick up there.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I just, you know, we were discussing regrets and really trying to kind of look forward in our own lives and say, how can I live out these next few decades and not look back and be filled with regret, right? And I think, and then, you know, just one test that we talk about, you know, in the book, it’s a really easy kind of just personal test you can give yourself is, you know, just look at your calendar upcoming for the next week and ask yourself, you you know, if I was on my deathbed, looking back at this week in time, would I wish I would have done more of what I’m planning on doing? Or would I wish I would have done something else? You know, like, you’ll never say on your deathbed, I wish I would have played one more game of pickleball, right? I wish I would have gone on one more trip, you know, on your deathbed, you might say, I wish I would have taken a grandkids fishing one more time or had some really, really deep discussions with loved ones or close friends, you know, and like really connected with people. Or maybe I wish I would have served somebody in my life or an organization better or more deeply. So I think you can always give yourself that litmus test. And I think it becomes very clear of, okay, yeah, like that might be fun, but maybe I’ll do that once this week instead of four times. And maybe I’ll, you know, jump into some new passion project that’s going to, you know, just amp me up in this season and make a huge impact.
SPEAKER 05 :
I like the idea of these connections because I think that in retirement, maybe some of us think we’re going to move away somewhere else where we don’t really have connections. And if you do that and do go to the warmer climate, I’ve seen a lot of success with moving to these communities where there are a lot of seniors who are very active and have, you know, these things, these breakfasts together and Sunday services, you know, and other things that kind of give you many opportunities to create friendships. And my brother, who isn’t that old, is actually in one of those. And that’s where my mom is right now. So she’s going to do the mermaids water class. And she goes to a Saturday, you know, chit chat and gossip session. And then they go to a breakfast once a month. And then they go for some walks around the neighborhood. So it’s helping her to make Yep, absolutely. All right, well, let’s talk about what are some of the things that you want people to take away from after work when they read the book?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, we want you to have a sense of, you know, I’m not a has-been, right? I’m not retired. If you look up synonyms in a thesaurus about the word retire, you find words like retreat, withdraw, you know, not as useful as you once were. And we want you to make this season be the best, most impactful and purposeful that it can be. And it absolutely can be. But you’re no longer on these predefined tracks of life, right? You don’t have a job that you can immediately just plug into and have daily connections with others and interaction and an active, more active lifestyle. I mean, you don’t have this predetermined kind of structure that you can just fit into. You really have to make it yourself. And so we really want you to lean in And be the best version of yourself in this season. You know, start working on your living legacy today. And I think you’re going to look back and be extremely proud of yourself, feel accomplished. And also, again, not be filled with that regret that we already talked about.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes. Okay. All right. Let’s talk about faith then. You know, a lot of my listeners are Christians and you included a chapter on faith. What does faith have to do with a retired life? I mean, I could imagine what, but let’s talk about it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. So there’s 10 keys in After Work. And faith is right smack dab in the middle. And that was intentional because I think You can do a lot of, you know, things right in this season. But I think if you have a lack of faith, I mean, faith is really the area, you know, in your life that everything else kind of orbits around.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
It informs the rest of your life kind of comprehensively in this like totally enveloping way. And so without it, a lot of times what happens is you turn to material kind of secular things. to try to fill that purpose or happiness bucket, right? The problem with that is the more you try to consume in the pursuit of happiness in the material secular realm, the more the happiness monster wants to eat, right? And it’s never satiated. So you try to constantly cram more and more fun, fun, fun things into your life, and you realize, oh, there’s never enough, right? It’s like there’s never enough money, or there’s never enough vacation, or there’s never enough material goods, and it becomes this vicious cycle. And so you need to get yourself outside of that cycle, and I think wherever you are in your faith walk can absolutely do that in a huge way. And I think there’s a lot of different interesting perspectives in the book on faith. Joel Malick is actually the co-author. He’s a pastor’s kid growing up, and he’s also studying to become a licensed pastor himself, just because he’s very passionate about it. And, you know, a few things we talk about in the book, I mean, one is, it’s a famous C.S. Lewis quote, but it’s, you know, faith is a habit, right? And I think that’s an interesting way to, like, look at it. It’s like, this isn’t, you don’t, you know, just be faithful on a Sunday, and then you go on with your life, right? I mean, it’s you really have to work at it like anything else. And I think the more deeply you, you know, pursue that and go down that, you know, rabbit hole, if you will, I think like the more you realize you need it. And so I think for me, it’s like a question of like, where, where are you putting, where are you putting your faith in this season? You know? And like, are you, pretending to be kind of like the master of the universe in your own life? And, you know, or are you remembering kind of where you’re at and how small, but also how immensely important you are at the same time? You know, it just brings that into full perspective for me at least. And I’m like, ah, yes, like I’m not, like I’m not, I’m not truly in control of all of these aspects, even though we, we pretend we’re in control of everything in our lives. Right. But if you think about the things you actually do, have control over in your life. There’s only a few. And so I think, you know, my faith reminds me that, hey, there’s so much out of my control. I need to be faithful. But the things that are in my control, I really need to focus on those and let God take care of the rest.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, retirement that, you know, all of the I mean, our kids right now, they’re all going to be in high school next year at the same time. And the idea of like, you know, living, we’ve saved a lot and we’re pretty conservative and we have a nice home that will, you know, sell in what, four years or so. So. When you talk about the sugar rush of retirement, like I can see, like I already can feel that like, oh, we’ll have a boat and we’ll have a dock and we’ll live on the water and there’ll be warmth and I can garden all the time and I can grow lots of things and plant my own vegetables and run, you know, have the dogs at the beach and blah, blah, blah. So what do you mean by the sugar rush of retirement?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. So retirement, um, You know, society’s narrative is that it’s going to be this endless vacation. You don’t have the Monday morning meeting. You don’t have to take orders from a boss or you don’t have to have all of the responsibility over the children that you’ve been raising or the business that you’ve been cultivating or whatever it is. Right. You no longer have all that responsibility. So it’s an endless vacation. The problem is, is you can’t take a vacation from a vacation. right?
SPEAKER 02 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Like, if you have a favorite dessert, you know, and you eat it every single day, all of a sudden, it’s no longer a favorite dessert. You can tell yourself that, but it’s really not. You don’t even want it anymore at some point at a certain point. And so for us, the sugar rush of retirement is that first six to 12 months of retirement where it is a vacation. You know, I liken it to the honeymoon period in a marriage, right? Like it’s this glorious you know short-lived season of celebration and vacation um but but but the honeymoon does not define the marriage right like and you have to go into marriage knowing that and likewise you have to go into retirement knowing that so absolutely take those you know that big retirement trip take the whole family on a trip if you can do that you know do all of those home projects you’ve been waiting on make sure no you know doors in your home squeak at all i mean there’s You go down the list, like you said, you know, like, you know, move where you’ve always wanted to move, but you’ve been waiting until retirement. And, you know, if if you’re really passionate about like being out on the water, like get that boat and do the gardening all the time. And that’s great. But you have to go into it knowing that, hey, this is going to be a fun, ephemeral or short lived season. And then it’s time to reengage thereafter.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right. So I have to say, as I was reading the bios, as you know, I was reading about Joel, your co-author, when I said six kids.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. I only have two. He’s the crazy one with six.
SPEAKER 05 :
I see. No, you like five. fly fishing trail running you’re a beekeeper and you have a rescue pup and uh yeah so that’s funny joel’s got six so he’s got a lot to say for retirement all right we only have about two minutes left when we said when you ask people about retirement are you ready they think about finances so a couple of tips in the two minutes we have left for people that do want to save properly for retirement
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I think as you think about retirement from a non-financial side, it’s just like the financial side, right? You need to start as early as possible and be as consistent as possible because, you know, you don’t just snap your fingers and say, oh, I’m fulfilled now, right? I mean, it’s a process. It’s a learning process. It’s a process that’s challenging. It’s a process that takes a lot of effort and intentionality. And so to do that, you know, start today, start to ponder, you know, let’s kick the tires. If you’re not retired yet, let’s think about, you know, what are some areas that I can pour myself into in the future that might become like the meat and potatoes on my plate and no longer just this fun, interesting thing, kind of pie in the sky idea and just give them a try. And you might surprise yourself. And I think you’ll be able to make an impact on others and eventually reach that level of, Hey, I’m, I’m feeling very fulfilled in life. I’m in a great spot. I’m having a lot of fun too.
SPEAKER 05 :
I love the idea, you know, of, you know, saving enough that, you know, you’re not. I mean, I think we probably over saved. And it’s funny because we met with someone once and he’s like, you know, I don’t think you’ve saved enough. We’re like, oh, please. Like we knew from our friends and comparatively speaking. And obviously he wanted our business. But that kind of turned me off right there. I’m like, no one I knew at the time, you know, at the age I was had saved what I did in my life, in my world of other news people, you know, like around me.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 05 :
And so maybe we over-save. And I am trying to get my husband to, like, enjoy life now. Like, I want hardwood floor on the steps. And he’s like, well, I don’t know. And I’m like, come on, bro. Like, let’s just live a little, can we? All right. I want to make sure, Alex, that people can find you and your book, After Work, an honest discussion about the retirement lie and how to live a future worthy of dreams. So what’s your website?
SPEAKER 03 :
Website is theafterwork.net. You can also find the book on Amazon. And our book is being utilized by a lot of small groups. So if you’re in a small group, if you lead a small group, check it out. There is a 30% discount for small groups directly from Tyndale House, which is our publisher. But you can find that link on our website. So theafterwork.net. Excellent. Yes. Thank you, Alex. Thank you. Awesome.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
