In this enlightening episode of ‘The Good News,’ Angie Austin welcomes back author Amy Simpson to delve deep into the stigma surrounding mental illness, especially within faith communities. Amy shares insights from her book ‘Mental Illness: What to Know and How to Help,’ discussing common misconceptions believers hold about mental health issues and how understanding can foster more compassionate support.
Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here’s Angie.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hey there, friend. Angie Austin here with The Good News. Really happy to welcome back Amy Simpson, author of Mental Illness, What to Know and How to Help. Welcome back, Amy. Thank you so much. I appreciate the chance to talk with you again. such an important topic and just both of us working to take the stigma off of mental illness. So people can treat it like other illnesses and not be embarrassed to say they’re suffering from something involving mental illness. Kind of give everyone just a brief overview of the book. If they didn’t hear you on the show last time.
SPEAKER 05 :
Sure. This is a short book. It’s an easy read actually. Um, and so it’s simple to pick up and use right away. And, um, designed to just be a tool that people can use when they’re in the situation of really knowing someone who is affected by mental illness or maybe trying to navigate this situation with a family member and understanding what they need to know about mental illness and how they can help. So it’s a very quick kind of basic resource that helps you understand some basics and then, okay, where can I go from there and how can I actually step in and be a part of what this what someone who’s experiencing a mental health crisis needs.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, since we have so many people of faith listening to the program, I think this is such an important book, an important question. Why do you think that so many Christians believe that you shouldn’t suffer from anxiety or depression or believe that others shouldn’t, like if their faith was right? I remember someone saying something to the effect of, to me, well, if, you know, they get their walk with God right or if they get right with the Lord, they won’t need to be on antidepressants. And so, like, can you talk a little bit about that topic?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, it’s a great question. I think it’s interesting that we have this misconception because, you know, we don’t tend to think this way about any other form of illness as Christians. And even though sometimes in the past or in different cultures, you know, we might have had situations where people would think certain diseases certain medical issues were caused by spiritual problems, you know, directly, but we tend to not think that way about anything except mental illness. And I think there is some, I partly just some maybe leftover thinking from what the way people thought about mental illness in the past. And, and not because not, not as a Christian necessarily way of thinking, but just sort of a superstitious way of thinking because mental illness is a Feels mysterious to us. It’s not something that we can easily see. And let me I can see that there’s something wrong in your brain, you know, and I can see the bruise or the. you know, the problem like I can with a broken limb or a bruise on your body, you know, that tends to be visible. Mental illness really is not physically visible. So I think that’s one aspect of it. It feels really mysterious and kind of hidden because it sort of is. It’s in our brain. Yeah, good point. Yeah, you know, it’s in parts of our body that we can’t see. But I think also there’s a confusion here between mental around how people are actually made you know that we are really complex beings and there are spiritual there is Our spiritual lives are central and core to everything else, but we’re also physical beings and we’re also emotional beings. And God has created us in his image, so we are very complex creations. And it’s not so simple as saying, you know, this part of your life is affected and so, you know, you just fix it, right? Or that, you know, the spiritual… aspects of our lives kind of fix everything else or have such a strong impact on everything else. It’s not that direct. Well, I will acknowledge that the health of us spiritually is tremendously important to every aspect of our lives, including our physical health, including our habits. You know, all of that is tremendously important and does impact our mental health. It’s not our spiritual health or spiritual well-being is not the thing, the lever that we pull that controls everything else. We have to attend to our needs around the other ways that we’re made to. And we can be harmed and injured and, you know, not healthy in other parts of our being besides just the things that we can see and just our, you know, our spiritual. So because we can’t see it does not automatically make it a spiritual issue. But I think that’s often what we boil it down to.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I like the way you explain it, too. It’s just not as tangible the way you can grab a leg and say, oh, look, it’s broken here. And so it’s not tangible, so it’s harder to really grasp it. And I think, too, I can’t even imagine coming up to someone and saying, oh, my goodness, I heard that you have cancer. I hope you get right with the Lord and you get rid of that soon.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right, exactly. And if you just had more faith or you spent more time in prayer, that would probably just go away.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and I’m sure they’re not trying to be offensive, but I find it very offensive. Like there’s something wrong with you, and that’s why you’re suffering from menial illness, because you’re just – you’re not working hard enough on your walk with the Lord, like you said, praying enough, et cetera. So what do you – What kinds of personal challenges or questions about God did you have regarding, and if you want to give a little recap about your mom’s own struggles, because growing up around mental illness like you and I both did, I think it does make you question your faith. Why is God doing this to my family, my mom, my brother, my whatever? And so let’s talk a little bit about that. your own situation with your mom and how did that make you question your faith or faith in general?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. So my mom has schizophrenia. She was, as far as I know, she was not diagnosed until I was a teenager, although it’s possible that she was diagnosed earlier than that. And I just don’t I just don’t have the story. But she was definitely experiencing the symptoms of the illness long before that. She got married when she was 19 years old when my dad and her got married, which is, you know, kind of that classic, right in that classic age when schizophrenia symptoms typically start. So she was in her late teens, early 20s, and when my parents got married, she was showing lots of symptoms of schizophrenia, but he didn’t recognize or understand what was happening, and she was able to function well enough. that it was sort of not openly, not diagnosed as far as I know, and not openly recognized for a long time. But certainly affected my family in a tremendous way, even from before I was born. But yeah, when I was a teenager, my mom became so, when I was 14, became so profoundly ill from her schizophrenia that she really lost her ability to function. And then at that point, you know, there was really no choice but for her to receive treatment and to receive a diagnosis. But it took a long time to understand what she was walking through. And I didn’t know we didn’t receive the official diagnosis for family for about 30 years afterwards. You know, she would not consent to us talking with her doctors and wouldn’t share her medical information. She was embarrassed. Yeah, it’s very common. And because of the way our medical system is set up, that’s, you know, people who have the illness have control over the information that’s shared. So we didn’t know. Or we didn’t receive confirmation. We knew, you know, because of what we had seen, that all of the symptoms pointed to a diagnosis of a psychotic disorder, probably schizophrenia. But so walking through that struggle, especially as a teenager, and seeing, you know, how my parents were really had kind of, you know, fallen apart, you Um, my parents remained married. They, they, they’re still married today. My family stayed together, but, um, in a sense, we just, we all kind of were on our own. And, um, that was obviously there was, that was a challenging experience for me. There are many, um, difficult experiences and dramas related to all the stories that I could share. Um, my mom has been homeless. She’s been in danger. She has been, um, in prison. She’s served time in jail and in prison. She’s, you know, been on the news, you know, just lots of things that we’ve experienced. And through all of that, I did ask those questions that you mentioned, questions like, why? Why would God allow a Christian to suffer this way? Why would God allow my family or my Christian family to suffer this way? My dad was a pastor for 10 years when I was growing up. Before this point, after my mom became fully incapacitated, he really was not able to serve as a pastor of a church. But before that, my parents were very faithful. They were… In ministry, just sort of all of the things or a lot of the things that you’re tempted to believe may mean that God will treat you better than other people, sort of to quote. It’s not about the way God treats us, but that’s the way we tend to think, I think. you know, that somehow God’s going to make sure that, that really bad things don’t happen to us because we’re, we’re doing so much for him and we’re so, you know, we’re faithful and, and we, and we love him and we tell other people about him and, you know, all of that. And, you know, I really had to wrestle through my theology around that and come to understand that that’s not the way it works. But, but I, it was a long road and a difficult road for me to get there. And I had many questions for God. I was, angry with him and, you know, went to the church and got mixed results, mostly, you know, kind of unhelpful responses when I did seek help with these questions. So, yeah, it’s not easy to go through the faith crisis that can come along with a mental health crisis, not only for the person with the illness, but also for those who love that person. And how is she doing now? My mom is actually doing relatively well right now. She’s she’s in her 80s and most people with schizophrenia don’t necessarily live that long because there are so many risks that come with many lifestyle risks and other risks that come with having that diagnosis but for people who do get to an advanced age with schizophrenia often it settles down a bit and I would say that’s true for my mom she’s living pretty well with it right now and And she’s in a pretty stable place. She’s also in assisted living, which is helpful because it sets some boundaries around her life and what she has to navigate with her illness. So, you know, she’s impaired. She will never be fully, you know, at the level of health that we would consider to be normal. But she’s doing okay, and she’s following the Lord and loves her Bible and spends time in it, and stays with her medication, which is a huge deal.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I think that is helpful to be in a setting where they take it. My two brothers that suffer from mental illness, one’s in a facility now where he takes it, but just like you said, with the extra risks. I think I mentioned to you last time I talked to my brother that was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, manic depression. He was murdered. So it’s that lifestyle. And the medication, you say in the book that – treatment does not equate a cure. And so I think that’s where my brothers have run into such, such troubles because they’ll stop taking their medication or in Bryce’s case did. So, you know, obviously it doesn’t take anymore because he was killed. But, you know, with my little brother, he, you know, is in a facility where they give him his medication, but boy, let me tell you something. When I get a call from him, you know, I never know. He never has a cell phone. I don’t know where he’s living. I don’t know if he’ll be homeless or, I can’t reach him. I get my call once or twice a year, maybe on like Mother’s Day or my birthday or Christmas or something. And I can tell immediately if he’s on his medication immediately. And if he’s over medicated, you know, because that also is an issue, you know, because they have no affect and they talk very monotone and. Kids are always like, what’s wrong with your brother? Like when he calls, he sounds so weird. But other times, you know, he doesn’t. And again, like you said, that treatment is not a cure. Amy, I love having you on. I want to have you on again. Where can people find you and your book, Mental Illness, What to Know and How to Help Amy Simpson?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, this book is really published by Aspire Press, which is part of Rose Publishing, which is part of Tyndale House Publishers. So you can find it by looking for Aspire Press titles or Rose Publishing. or just going to Tin Dad House Publishers. But it’s really also available anywhere else that people are used to getting their Christian books, you know, at those Christian bookstores or online where they’re looking for those books. They can find it. So, yeah, Mental Illness, What to Know and How to Help. It’s a short, like I said, it’s a short read. It’s It’s just over 100 pages long, so it’s really a quick one. And it’s actually something that you can easily tuck in your bag or purse and carry around with you, too, if you want to have one handy to hand to somebody else who might need it as well. And then I’m on X. I’m on LinkedIn, Instagram, Pinterest if people want to find me there. But, yeah, they can find this book really wherever they would typically buy their Christian books.
SPEAKER 04 :
Excellent. Well, thank you, Amy. Thanks for joining us again. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 05 :
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 06 :
Erie, thanks for tuning in to KLTT, the Mighty 670.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hey there, friend, Angie Austin and Grace Fox with the good news. Welcome, Grace.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thanks for having me again, Angie.
SPEAKER 04 :
You are welcome. I look forward to it every week. We’re talking about your book, Keeping Hope Alive, Devotions for Strength in the Storm. And today we are talking about the devotion titled In His Sight. So let’s get started. What are we talking about regarding In His Sight?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it’s interesting because I just released a book called Names of God Knowing Peace. And one of the names of God I explored in that study is El Royi, which means the Lord sees me. And there’s a verse in this devotion we’re talking about today that is totally related. It’s Psalm 33, 18 and 19, which says, But the eyes of the Lord are on those who fear him, on those whose hope is in his unfailing love. to deliver them from death and keep them alive in famine. And when I wrote this devotion, I was just coming off an experience where I had been at a park with some of my grandkids. And some of them were quite little, right? So they’re climbing all over the monkey bars and enjoying the kids’ toys. But there were so many of the grandkids there that I was I was very busy just keeping track of them all, you know? And Oh my goodness. At one point, my heart just kind of shot because I’m thinking one, two, three, four, five. Oh no. Where’s number six. Where’s number six. Right. I’m missing one. And, and then realizing it. No, no, he’s still there. He’s just, on a different part of the equipment and, and realizing that as a grandma, I want to keep my grandchildren in my sight because I want to know they’re safe. Yes. That boy, how much more does God keep us in his sight because he cares for us and he, he, he just never loses us. Right. He always knows where we are. And that’s such an encouragement.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, I would say so, but I think that many of us lose sight of the fact that we’re in his sight, and that’s why we are always grasping at those straws of control because we so easily forget.
SPEAKER 03 :
We do, and you know what? There’s a little term for that. I’ve called it spiritual amnesia. We do forget. We go through amnesia. Through highs and lows spiritually. So we might go through a really hard time where, oh, you know, we draw close to God. And there are times when we feel like he’s carrying us through. And then that’s done. And we move on. And life is going smoothly again. And we kind of forget. The people of Israel did that all the way through the Old Testament. And we’re no different than that. And so… it’s like remembering even when life is going well and we feel like we can be, Oh, all good and independent and self-sufficient, but no, we still need him. And, and we still are in his sight. So it’s not that he says, Oh, okay, they’re good to go. I can go turn my attention to somebody else now. And he, you know, turns his focus away from us when things are going well, but no, we are always in his sight at all times. And, And, wow, it’s just good to be reminded of that. It’s like you’ve got to write it on a recipe card and stick it on the fridge, you know. El Roye, God sees me.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, when we talk, oftentimes you and I discuss some of the trips you take with your ministry, you and your husband, and all the people you work with, and you’ve talked about your ministering to people who minister to the people in the Ukraine, and that many of your people are helping people who are in a lot of pain and in a lot of danger. And I always think, like you were telling me about Romania and Turkey, Egypt and Poland and Slovakia, all these places you go. And when you were telling me about Egypt, I was like, oh, are you safe? And then you talked about being behind walls and, you know, these things. So I always think, to be honest with you, like I get a little scared when you’re like, oh, you’ve got to come on one of these trips with us. And I’m like, oh, is there like a safe one in Poland? You know what I mean?
SPEAKER 06 :
I don’t know.
SPEAKER 04 :
And so when you take some of these trips, you must have to really realize that you’re in God’s sight because when I read about some of these mission trips where people end up in danger or they go to Africa, one of my friends is a surgeon and she’s going to Africa soon too. you know, help people with surgeries, obviously as a surgeon. And she said, Hey, does anybody want to apply? And I’m like, Oh, I’ve just got one kid at home now. Like I can start doing some of these things like soon where I would go to exotic places and, you know, fundraise and help people in the far reaches of the world. And when you go and how do you overcome the fear? I mean, sometimes you’ve told me like pre navigation on your, So phone, you know, your grandmother, I think about my mom navigating like even with a map or a phone. And I don’t know if my mom could do it. Granted, my mom is older than you are. But I think back to when I used to get along around Los Angeles without navigation on, you know, phone when we had flip phones. And you’ve overcome a lot of fears like, you know, traveling to other cities, traveling to other countries, having to navigate, you know, the train system or the bus system or being on buses. You told me just within the last month or two, you were on some bus where you didn’t really have water and people had snacks and it was super hot. We were just like dying, you know. And so you go to a lot of places where you are not comfortable, where you do not feel at ease, and you must lean on the Lord because you wouldn’t even be there if you didn’t overcome your fears of going to places that aren’t necessarily safe or familiar, and there are language barriers and transportation barriers. So how do you tackle all that?
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s a really good question, Angie. Part of me says, okay, there are – common sense things that we need to do in order to address security issues because those things are real. So, for instance, our mission organization taps into another organization whose role it is to inform mission agencies about security issues in the area. Oh, okay, okay. So every day we have a person who’s trained in that to relay the information. And so we’re not going to go into a setting where, say, all the intel is saying, don’t go there because it’s not safe at this point. As a foreigner, stay out of there. So if that’s the message we’re getting, we’re going to respect that. But, you know, if it’s a small risk or something and they’re not warning people to stay out, per se, then we go. But we still take precautions. And, for instance, we’re not going to open our hotel room door to just anybody. You know, that type of thing when we’re staying in a place where there might be a bit of a risk. So we are taking precautions like that. But I’m not going to… ever say to somebody i’m not willing to go into that place where we have staff working because i don’t think it’s safe because if i were to say that what does that communicate to our staff who are working there
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh my gosh, that’s a conundrum, because you can’t really. I mean, they’re not going to respect you or feel like you’re working successfully on their behalf, that you’re not looking out for them if you’re sending them there, but you’re like, well, that’s okay for you, but not for me.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly. And what does that say about… my faith and my level of trust in God’s ability to keep me. So I really have to measure that. And I have to live by the truth that says there’s no safer place than in the center of God’s will. That’s not just a Christian, you know, nice little quote. It’s either true or it’s not. And, you know, scripture says to expect suffering. It says to make up your cross and do whatever it is God asks you to do. And guess what? He’s going to ask us to do things that are not comfortable. Because if we could just do those things in our own strength, why would we need him? So I fully expect that my role is going to lead me into places that are far beyond where I feel comfortable going. And then my, my yes matters. And so, but like I say, we balance out with those Intel reports and, and yeah, it’s just, it’s just a matter of figuring it out and taking it one step at a time and trusting God to open or close the doors too.
SPEAKER 04 :
And you feel like your husband’s also good at that. Is he better than you? Is he, are you more fearful than he is?
SPEAKER 03 :
No, I don’t think so. I think that we’ve been through enough together that we do have that level of trust that God is going to keep us. And so there is an opportunity that’s come up. We’ve just been talking about it in the last few days. The final decision hasn’t been made because it’s not ours to make. It will be… our U.S. director’s decision, the final call is his as to whether or not we go, that we might be going into Lebanon in November. And so, of course, we look at the intel at that point, you know, as it gets closer and closer. And if something should literally explode there in that area that we’d be traveling to, even the day before we go, if the intel says do not go, we will not go. You know, we cancel the flight. But if God opens those doors and it appears that he is at this point, we will continue to walk through those doors. So we’ll see. We’ll just see. And I’m not scared. I’m not scared to go. I feel like, wow, you know, God, what an amazing opportunity to go in there to bless our staff. So,
SPEAKER 04 :
I love it that you weigh what you’ll put your – the situations you’ll put your staff in and that you have to be equally willing to do so yourself, put yourself in the same circumstances. And I think about like when I was younger before I had kids and I’d go whitewater rafting, et cetera, and then I haven’t done that since I had kids because I feel like it’s like an unnecessary risk to put myself in because every year here in Colorado, we have people that die whitewater rafting. And I feel like, oh, you know, why put myself at that additional risk or whatever. And so I kind of feel the same way about, you know, starting to take trips that might be a little bit more dangerous or to take time away from my family that I’ve got one kid in school for another or in high school for another two years. And then I feel like I can put myself at more risk. But then I think about you and you’ve got all your children and how many grandchildren now?
SPEAKER 1 :
14.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, my goodness. That’s amazing. So, you’ve got older grandkids, like, you’re going to get to the great-grandma’s, you know, stage, you know, before you know it. I mean, not all your grandkids are babies, like, you know, these numbers are going to continue to grow, and, you know, and you have a lot of people to live for and stay safe for, but… I love it that you trust in the Lord so much that you feel comfortable with that. And I know that my comfort zone will come. I still feel, even thinking about it, like a little trepidation. But I think part of that may be that I still have a kid at home that I feel responsible for on a day-to-day basis. But I think I’ll be ready soon to start taking some of those trips where I trust in God while I do things for others. Because I feel like I’m at a point in my life where I can give so much back to other people when it’s time for me to do that. And so, you know, I’m looking forward to that. I always get such a kick out of talking to you, Grace. I don’t know if you know how blessed you are to have so many opportunities, but it’s my job to keep reminding you. Thanks for the reminder. Okay. GraceFox.com. Check out her books. Thank you so much, friend. Talk to you next week. Okay. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
In this enlightening episode of ‘The Good News,’ Angie Austin welcomes back author Amy Simpson to delve deep into the stigma surrounding mental illness, especially within faith communities. Amy shares insights from her book ‘Mental Illness: What to Know and How to Help,’ discussing common misconceptions believers hold about mental health issues and how understanding can foster more compassionate support.
