Join Dr. James Dobson and special guest Patrick Truman as they examine the success stories and ongoing challenges in battling pornography’s influence over our culture. From taking action against military and hotel distributors to the poignant recounting of Ted Bundy’s chilling story, this episode sheds light on the urgency of confronting this public health crisis. Dr. Dobson and Truman emphasize the critical importance of awareness and advocacy, inviting listeners to consider the far-reaching consequences of inaction in this ongoing battle.
You’re listening to Family Talk, the radio broadcasting division of the James Dobson Family Institute. I am that James Dobson, and I’m so pleased that you’ve joined us today.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, welcome back to Family Talk. I’m Roger Marsh. On our last program, we began a challenging but necessary conversation about the devastating impact of pornography on our culture. Our guest was Patrick Truman, president of the National Center on Sexual Exploitation. We heard Patrick Truman talking with Dr. James Dobson and sharing the difficult experiences of serving on the Attorney General’s Commission on Pornography in the 1980s and how that groundbreaking work led to important legal victories. Today on Family Talk, we’re continuing the discussion as Patrick Truman and Dr. Dobson will explore some of the successes that came from that commission’s work, victories many people don’t even know about. You’ll hear how Citizen Action led major corporations like 7-Eleven, Hilton Hotels, and military exchanges to remove pornographic materials from their establishments. But you’ll also hear why this fight is far from over. With the Internet making explicit content even more accessible than ever before, the The statistics now are staggering. Patrick Truman will note that roughly 90% of teenage boys and 60% of teenage girls are regularly exposed to pornography. The consequences reach into every corner of our society. Again, as we mentioned on our last broadcast, the content you’re going to hear today is intended for mature audiences, so parental discretion is strongly advised. And now let’s rejoin Dr. James Dobson and his guest, Patrick Truman, for part two of their important conversation about how pornography is truly a public health crisis. That’s on today’s edition of Family Talk.
SPEAKER 03 :
When you and I were talking before the program today, you made reference to something that happened during the Pornography Commission incident. 1985 and 86 that I had forgotten, and it had to do with 7-Eleven.
SPEAKER 02 :
People don’t know that 7-Eleven was probably the leading distributor of pornography in America at one time. And the Attorney General’s Commission on Pornography, which you were a part of before you finished your work, sent the corporation that owns 7-Eleven—it was called Southland Corporation at the time— sent them a letter saying that the Attorney General’s Commission is wrapping up its work and we are about to name you as the number one distributor of pornography in America. Got their attention, didn’t it? jumped at that. They did not want to be called a pornographer, but certainly didn’t want to be called number one. And they got rid of pornography in all 7-Elevens. And you know, Jim, as you recall, the magazine racks in 7-Elevens are right there at a child’s eyes. And what a sweeping victory for the commission before you even ended your work.
SPEAKER 03 :
Let’s talk about another aspect of that. There was a time, I’m not sure now, where the military base stores, the PXs and so on, were high-volume carriers of pornography.
SPEAKER 02 :
And you guys jumped on that. We did a couple of years ago when there was a sexual assault crisis in the military that came to light because of a survey across all military branches. And the Armed Services Committee and the Senate held hearings on why is there sexual assault in the military. And we – took pictures of the PX magazine racks, and we brought those to this committee and waved it in front of them. Jeff Sessions took our brochure showing a picture of those porn magazines sold in the PXs to the committee and made an announcement, and the committee wrote to the Pentagon demanding that they get rid of the PX porn. And what happened? The Army and the Air Force immediately got rid of it. I’m not sure if the Navy has gotten rid of all of it. We understand that there’s still a problem with the Navy. But most all of it disappeared. And it shows you one thing. The citizen action counts. You can make a difference.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, let’s talk about hotels because at the time of our commission, almost every hotel had the most wretched, hardcore stuff. We’re not talking airbrush nudity. We’re talking about hardcore obscenity.
SPEAKER 02 :
On the TVs.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
And, you know, you’d go in those rooms, Jim, and you’d turn on the TV. And, of course, the first thing they want to sell you is the movies. And many of them said – There’s this kind of movie, drama, action, and adult. And then you can click on the adult and you see all these terrible images, etc. Well, we put Hilton Hotels on our Dirty Dozen list. It’s a list that we produce annually of 12 corporations engaged in pornography or sexual exploitation. Every year we do this. We put Hilton on, put the list out to all the pro-family groups in America. A lot of the people wrote then to Hilton and called Hilton. And Hilton asked us in for a meeting and said, we’re getting 1,000 emails a week to our top executives. and we’ve decided to get out of the porn business worldwide. Every hotel across the world that’s a Hilton hotel or a Hilton-managed hotel got out of that business. And then we turned our attention to Hyatt, Intercontinental, and the Starwood brands, and all those within six months agreed to get out of the porn business as well. That’s progress. Great progress. So now when you check into a hotel, your kids don’t turn on the TV and see that sort of thing. And the businessmen and women aren’t tempted when they go there. That’s very important.
SPEAKER 03 :
Some of my data are old because they go back to the pornography commission. But I remember that the research showed that the number one users of obscenity, of hardcore stuff – Our teenagers.
SPEAKER 02 :
I think that’s still true today. And, you know, when you look at how available we make it to them, it’s not only on their cell phones and on their computer, but so many of them have HBO or these other channels, and they carry now hardcore pornography. There’s a show called Game of Thrones that intersperses incest and full nudity and sexual acts. You know, they’re not actual acts. But they appear to be actual sex. So these teenagers see this all around them. So it’s a small step to just spend an hour or two a day on the Internet looking at that.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, a boy between 16 and 26 is set on fire by that stuff. I mean, the high is wicked for all of us. And it is easily corrupted.
SPEAKER 02 :
What they don’t understand, and you’re better at this than me, of course, Jim, but I’ve sat through a number of these lectures, is that as you look at pornography, it’s not like looking at a sports magazine or a porn movie is not like watching a basketball game. You develop pathways of the brain, new pathways that demand to be fed then. So you don’t just walk away from it and you’re done with pornography. No, it draws you back. Your own brain says, come back. I want more. I want harder. I want more deviant. And that’s what you talked about.
SPEAKER 03 :
There’s a hormone called epinephrine that stamps those images into the brain. Others leave you. You don’t remember what the weather was like when you were eight years old. you remember what you’ve seen of a sexual nature, and it stays with you.
SPEAKER 02 :
So this refutes the notion that many dads have that boys will be boys. They’ll say, oh, I saw Playboy when I was their age. Yeah, what effect did it have on you? And what effect did the far more deviant material that kids have today, what effect does that have on them? So the boys will be boys, that’s nonsense.
SPEAKER 03 :
Patrick, are the parents in a state of panic over this?
SPEAKER 02 :
Not enough. They should be. Because if a kid is getting involved in pornography, as you said in yesterday’s show, they can become addicted. And the parent may not know about it. Their grades go down. Their social network, they turn away from it. And porn becomes their life. Parents should be very, very concerned about it. But too many are not. And one thing I heard a prominent speaker say that does not seem to work in stopping kids from getting involved in pornography is just educating the parents. Because too many parents, it just goes in one ear and out the other. I don’t even know it. Yeah, the kids know how to get pornography even if you have blocking software. Parenting is a 24-7 job, and this is why.
SPEAKER 03 :
So many people have heard me say this that I’m reluctant to say it again, but I want to make sure everybody has heard it. Ted Bundy was convicted of murdering several women, but the record shows that it was probably 100 or more in the most brutal way. And he kept it up for years. He had a system that was foolproof. He would attract these girls on campus. He looked young. He was in law school. And he looked like the safest guy ever. And he would invite these girls out to his car and then immediately disable them and kill them and throw their bodies where animals would find them and they’d be years before anybody would even locate them. He did that over and over and over again. And he discovered our pornography commission. I mentioned yesterday there were 2,000 pages in it. He read the whole thing. He saw himself in it. And he realized that he had been addicted to pornography from 13 years of age. He had gone to a dump near his house. And in those days, they were relatively mild drugs. By today’s comparison, detective stories of women bound up and with the gags and blindfolds and tied up. And that appealed to his violent nature. And at 13 years of age, he got hooked on sadomasochism, which is sex combined with violence. And it walked him through that path we were talking about yesterday toward harder and harder and more violent and more exploitative stuff until it eventually came to a little fire trail. And at the fire trail, you’ve seen everything that a man or woman can do together. You’ve seen everything that photography can tell you. And there is a moment there where some, not all, will jump the fire trail over into the actual act and not just the visual act. And he did that. He took his first woman. and was absolutely shocked he told me that he could even do such a thing. And the next morning, he couldn’t even believe himself. And then a month would go by, and the pressures would grow, and he would do it again and do it again and do it again. Well, he read those 2,000 pages, and he knew that I was the only one who would tell his story. And so he had his lawyer call me, And the lawyer called and said, Ted is going to be executed. So he can’t talk about it now. But when he has been cleared for execution, he wants you to come down to the Florida State Prison and witness this. to him and talk to him about his experience and encourage him because he’s going to confess. And I said, I will do that. Two years went by and he invited me to come to Florida the night before he was executed. It’s the most surreal thing I’ve ever been through, Pat. I went through seven locked doors, so sensitive you had to take off your shoes because the nails in your heels would set off the alarm. And they ushered me up to where Ted Bundy was. And on video, I interviewed him. There were six guards around us, all standing out of sight. We talked for 45 minutes, and that video is still available. And he said, I’m telling you that kids are going to be dead. People are going to die because people are not aware of this danger. It ruined me. He said, I don’t want to be self-serving about it because a lot of people died. But he said, this is what happened to me. And he confessed the whole thing there on that video. I walked out of there with that tape, the only interview he gave to anybody. And there were 300 members of the press there. CBS offered me a million dollars for a 24-hour exclusive for that tape. And I said, no, we’re giving it to everybody. And anybody who will show it without editing it can use it. I was out there at 10 o’clock at night with strobe lights in my face and microphones all over the place doing an interview with these 300 members of the press. And then they began to attack me. They said that I was making it up because of my bias against imagery. and said that I’d done it for money. The Denver Post said that I had done this to exploit the situation and make money. Here in Colorado Springs, Steve Raby wrote a horrible, big, full-page expose of me about how I’ve exploited things. I’ve never taken a dime a salary in 40 years of this work. I’ve written 35 books and I was accused of being too political. Not a one of them is really political. I mean, that’s what they’ve done to me. And I don’t mind that. That’s an honor to carry the banner But I can tell you that the media would not allow that story to be told.
SPEAKER 02 :
And it’s an interesting thing. Ted Bundy, Jim Dobson tape is still available on YouTube. Anybody can see it. But what would Bundy have to gain when he’s dying the next day? I mean truth is truth. The video was there for everybody to see.
SPEAKER 03 :
He wasn’t under – They made it up, Pat. They said that he was trying to justify himself. Man, listen to the tape. How can you say that? I’ve done this horrible thing.
SPEAKER 02 :
I just confessed. And what we know is that deathbed confessions are more truthful than most any other confession. A man usually doesn’t lie on his deathbed.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, that’s right.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s right. And we know from other studies today what pornography does to the brain. It destroys your empathy for any other individuals. It leads to sexual violence. The rape myth, you’re more likely to buy into that. And thinking that women enjoy sex with violence. Why? Because you’ve been watching it.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s one of the messages. They say no, but they really mean yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
This is what you learn from watching pornography. So Ted Bundy really represents – he’s the exception. Not everybody kills several people. But what he is saying about the profound influence is real.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, I want to talk about your organization, Nicosi.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, National Center on Sexual Exploitation, and the acronym is NCOSE. No cozy, we call it. Okay. Explain what you’re doing. Well, our goal is to create a movement to help build up groups around the country who are willing to fight this. We work in a coalition with Family Research Council, other different groups on projects. But the main thing is we have to get people to understand that pornography is influencing every family, every child in America, and it leads to so many other problems. We can’t solve sex trafficking in America unless we solve the pornography problem. Can’t solve child pornography unless you solve the adult pornography problem. So we develop project after project for people to partake in. We’re a citizen activist group. And on our website, people can go there and you can right now contact a dozen different companies that are involved in pornography, some of which in the last few weeks have gotten back to us to say, all right, we’re getting lots of emails. We see your point. We’re willing to meet with you. So this is something that hadn’t been done in years, Jim, getting citizen activists to Stop the proliferation of pornography.
SPEAKER 03 :
And it’s in our interest, every family’s interest. And it’s in the interest of every mom and dad because I’m telling you, your kids are targeted. They are. And your boys especially are easily manipulated and the boys then exploit the girls. That’s right. It’s a no-win deal.
SPEAKER 02 :
It is a no-win deal and we never used to say that girls are at all interested in pornography. I remember 30 years ago, that was what people said when we were prosecuting pornography. Women are not interested in pornography. Today they are because of the peer pressure from the boys and the availability on the internet.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. And that leads to putting sexually explicit imagery on cell phones. It goes to every corner of culture.
SPEAKER 02 :
Sure. And the sexting culture, kids trading these pictures. And actually, when I bring up sexting, think about what that is when these high school kids are doing it. It’s mostly they’re trading pictures of themselves under the age of 18. So that’s child pornography. Right. We’re now trading among teenagers child pornography. This is where our culture has gone with this. And once you put it on there, it can never get out.
SPEAKER 03 :
You can never eliminate it. Right. That’s right. Yeah. Well, tell me more about your organization, because I want people to understand.
SPEAKER 02 :
We’re 55 years of age, and we’ve got Washington, D.C. headquarters right on Capitol Hill. Recently, we put on an event right in the U.S. Capitol building, invited members of Congress, staff, members of the administration. We had the Department of Justice there, other departments, Department of Defense, come where we could talk about the influence of pornography on on the military, on the culture, on child sex abuse, et cetera. So we act as a think tank also to try to get people to understand the influence of pornography. And our number one goal this year is to get the U.S. Justice Department to prosecute illegal pornography. And Jim, most people don’t even know that it’s a violation of federal law, punishable by five years in prison, to distribute hardcore pornography on the internet. Yet it’s all over the internet. And it’s a violation of federal law to distribute hardcore pornography by cable or satellite. Comcast, Verizon, they all violate that law. It’s a violation of federal law just to be in the retail business of distributing pornography.
SPEAKER 03 :
Patrick, where does your passion for this come from. Your family’s not involved in this, and you’re not addicted to it. You have not, as I can see, ever been dragged into it. You’re the Lord. spared you from that. Why this? You could have fought a thousand things as an attorney at the Department of Justice.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, actually, I used to head Americans United for Life, the national anti-abortion group. But a combination of circumstances ended up at the Justice Department. and was in a Bible study at the Attorney General’s office. And the Attorney General announced he was going to have a special strike force of prosecutors and named one of the fellows from our Bible study to head it. And that person turned to me and said, well, if I’m going to head it, I want you to be my deputy. And so I became the deputy. And then he left soon thereafter, and I became the chief of it. And what I saw was the harm. and the devious nature of these pornographers and what they were doing to our children and to husbands, wives, et cetera. And I just gained a passion for it, and God’s never let me get away from it. Thirty years now, and I’ve enjoyed my stay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you’ve been steadfast, and you’ve been my friend, and I am grateful for you, Pat. Patrick Truman we’re talking to, an attorney, heads up this anti-pornography organization, and if people forget how to reach you, they can contact us, and we’d be glad to pass that information along. I’d love to work beside you on this issue for the rest of my life. And maybe, maybe the Lord will grant us some success because it’s been an uphill slog.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 01 :
The raw honesty in Dr. Dobson’s personal confession about his own temptation reminds us that this battle against pornography requires vigilance from all of us. No one is immune to its pull. You’ve been listening to Family Talk and part two of Dr. James Dobson’s conversation with Patrick Truman about pornography as a public health crisis. Now, if you missed any portion of today’s broadcast, or if you want to share it with someone you love, visit drjamesdobson.org slash family talk. We’ll be right back. To sign up, go to drjamesdobson.org. That’s drjamesdobson.org. You know, since Dr. Dobson’s home going in August, we’ve been honoring the extraordinary legacy of our beloved founder and the decades he devoted to strengthening families all over the world. We encourage you, if you haven’t already, to join thousands of others in celebrating Dr. Dobson’s life by visiting jamesdobsonmemorial.com. On this special memorial site, you can read about his remarkable journey, share your own tribute or memory, and make a gift to ensure the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute continues the mission he was so passionate about. Your heartfelt memories, your words of gratitude, and your financial partnership all help preserve the incredible impact Dr. Dobson had on families all around the world. Again, the memorial website address is jamesdobsonmemorial.com. You know, Dr. James Dobson founded the James Dobson Family Institute with a clear mission, to preserve and promote the institution of the family and the biblical principles on which it is based. Through daily broadcasts like the one you just heard, we are working to introduce as many people as possible to the gospel of Jesus Christ— We’ll see you next time. To make a secure donation online, visit drjamesdobson.org. If you prefer, you can make a donation over the phone when you call 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and on behalf of all of us here at the JDFI and the Family Talk broadcast, thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you can still trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
Join Dr. James Dobson and special guest Patrick Truman as they examine the success stories and ongoing challenges in battling pornography’s influence over our culture. From taking action against military and hotel distributors to the poignant recounting of Ted Bundy’s chilling story, this episode sheds light on the urgency of confronting this public health crisis. Dr. Dobson and Truman emphasize the critical importance of awareness and advocacy, inviting listeners to consider the far-reaching consequences of inaction in this ongoing battle.
