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In this episode of Washington Watch, guest host Joseph Backholm takes listeners through a comprehensive discussion about pressing national issues. We delve into the House Republicans’ upcoming meetings with President Trump and the key topics on their agenda, including fiscal policies and spending. With extensive insights from Congressman Russ Fulcher, the conversation highlights the political landscape and the conservative priorities shaping policy discussions in Washington, D.C. Additionally, we provide an on-the-ground update from California, where devastating wildfires have wrought significant community disruption and loss. Reconciling faith with natural calamities, moving through grief, and embracing communal unity are explored with
SPEAKER 02 :
from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Sitting in for Tony is today’s host, Joseph Backholm.
SPEAKER 09 :
Hello and welcome to this Friday edition of Washington Watch. I’m Joseph Backholm, a senior fellow for biblical worldview here at Family Research Council. It’s my pleasure to be sitting in for Tony and with you this afternoon. Quick news. Note and reminder, as we prepare for the transition of leadership in Washington, we believe this is the season calls for heightened spiritual vigilance and unity. So during this pivotal time from now until January 20th of 2025, we invite you to join us for Operation Prayer Shield, a collective effort in which we’ll seek God’s divine protection and guidance. So to be part of the effort, text SHIELD, S-H-I-E-L-D, to 67742. You’ll receive weekly alerts, daily prayer points, and more. Again, text SHIELD, S-H-I-E-L-D, to 67742. Today on the program, fires continue to devastate California. A local pastor will join us to give a report from the ground and tell us what we can be doing to help. Also, a court ruling out of Kentucky has stopped the Biden administration’s efforts to redefine gender. We’ll tell you the details of that decision and what it means practically for people’s lives coming up as well. Also, in our worldview discussion, is God the one burning California? And what should we think about the fact that the Beatles song Imagine was sung at Jimmy Carter’s funeral? We’ll discuss all of that coming up in the program. But first, our headlines. Different groups of House Republicans will be meeting this weekend with President-elect Trump at Mar-a-Lago, starting later today with the House Freedom Caucus.
SPEAKER 05 :
I talked to the president about those meetings and his idea. It was his idea to bring in small groups of House Republicans to come together and just have fellowship together and talk about the issues and talk about the vision that we have for the year ahead of us.
SPEAKER 09 :
That was House Speaker Mike Johnson yesterday speaking with reporters. What can we expect from some of the discussions to include, and what are some of the conclusions that Republicans will be hoping for? Here now to discuss this and more is Congressman Russ Fulcher, a member of the House Freedom Caucus. He represents the 1st Congressional District of Idaho. Congressman Fulcher, welcome to Washington Watch. Joseph, thank you so much. Appreciate your program. Great to have you. What do you anticipate will be the focus of the meeting with President Trump and the Freedom Caucus?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, first of all, President Trump is a businessman, and he knows the importance of relationships and a positive rapport. And I’m confident that part of the reason that we’ve been invited is to work on that rapport and build that relationship. And that’s a good thing. And I’m very thankful for the opportunity to do it. I know that my colleagues are as well. I’m sure that as we go through these discussions this evening, that it’s going to have to do with the debt ceiling. It’s going to have to do with the upcoming reconciliation bill or bills and all the budget content that comes along with that. But that’s the genesis and I think the baseline for what we’re going to be talking about.
SPEAKER 09 :
So do you expect these meetings to be as much relational as they are policy?
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, I really do. And at the same time, it’s important for those of us that are on the fiscal conservative side to be able to communicate to the president just how important it is to us that we address some of these debt-related issues, Joe. So if we’ve got a $36 trillion-plus debt that’s just simply unsustainable, and I know that the president has requested a debt ceiling increase. A number of us opposed that. But it wasn’t because we were opposing the president. We’re simply concerned about the spending that’s coming out of Washington, D.C. And so that policy is going to be talked about a lot and the importance of changing the paradigm in Washington, D.C. so that this is not just always growing the spending side of the ledger, but we’re also cutting things, too.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, there are very narrow Republican majorities in the House. Do you think that gives the House Freedom Caucus more leverage when it comes to negotiations about things like spending and raising the debt limit?
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, no question. But to be honest, everybody’s got leverage when you’re when you’re this evenly yoked, if you will, Republican Democrat on the House floor. And so I think right now we’ve got about a one person margin that can go on a swing that will that will potentially change as some of the the the members that got appointed to or potentially appointed to various offices get replaced. However, any way you slice it, it’s going to be very, very narrow and everyone’s vote, everyone’s opinion is going to be very important. It’s extremely important that we know where everybody is at before we go out there and cast votes.
SPEAKER 1 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 09 :
Do you have a sense for the Trump administration’s priorities when it comes to spending in the budget?
SPEAKER 01 :
Not by line. Well, I shouldn’t say that. Border, of course, first and foremost appears to be on the agenda, and it should be. We’ve got a lot of damage that we need to try to fix regarding the border. Right on the heels of that is going to be energy-related issues. The United States has tremendous potential to once again embark on more domestic energy production. and energy exports, which also gives you leverage on the foreign policy front. So those are gonna be right up there. Of course, the foreign wars issues and how that gets dealt with is gonna be right there as well. And then just the overall swamp, if you will, and how you deal with these major bureaucracies and the leverage that they have gained over the years. We’ve got a full plate, Joseph, and I think that that’s probably going to be on the discussion roll tonight.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, Congressman, apropos of nothing, probably, why are all these meetings always happening at Mar-a-Lago? Everybody seems to be going to Trump’s house to do everything.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, well, I can tell you I left 25 degrees in Washington, D.C. this morning and it’s 70 degrees here. So maybe that’s part of it. But seriously, I think it’s wherever the the incoming president is. I think is where you need to be. And right now, he extended an invitation, and I think it’s probably most convenient for him to do it where he lives. And the least we can do is to accommodate that. Once again, this is not only, I think, for rapport building, but it’s going to be discussions of the major policies that we’re all going to be voting on within a few days. And so if we need to come to Florida, And in order to have those discussions, I am more than happy to do it.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. And the weather, of course, is a great bonus. Congressman, we mentioned the very narrow majorities that exist right now and kind of the challenge that presents. What do you get – what’s the sense of the mood in Congress? Is there like – A lot of anxiety because of how narrow those majorities are and some of the differences that have flared up in very recent years? Or is there a sense of optimism that we really do have shared goals, we expect to get on the same page, we all want to get on the same page, and we think we can’t?
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, that’s a great question. I just have to respond by saying since the election, it’s like a dark cloud has been lifted over Washington, D.C. Of course, I’m on the conservative Republican side and there’s more evidence there of that. However, I would argue, Joseph, that even my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are somewhat encouraged because. They don’t have to necessarily defend all the stupid policies that they’ve had to defend for the last four years. And I apologize about being so blunt, but let’s be honest. My friends on the other side of the aisle are very good at towing the party line. They’re very good at following and defending what the administration on their side puts out front. And some of those policies, quite frankly, are just plain stupid. And I’ll start with electronic vehicle mandates in a very short period of time, transgender issues, open borders, and all the things that come negatively with that. These are policies that my friends on the other side of the aisle have had to defend. And that’s why, in my opinion, they lost the election. That’s why the Republicans came out on front. And I think that everyone is relieved that we’re just not having to defend stupid anymore. And again, I apologize for the bluntness, but that’s just the reality as I see it.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, I think there are a lot of voters who would agree with that. And to that point, the 119th Congress has already been sworn in. You guys are already busy working. A lot of attention given to the reconciliation bill and how we’re going to get that passed. There’s a debate over whether that should be two bills, one bill. What’s your preference and how do you see that going?
SPEAKER 01 :
I don’t particularly have a preference, and that’s going to be discussed tonight as well. But here’s what is important. We need to demonstrate that we are willing to cut spending. And so part of the discussion tonight will include things on the docket that can be done. If we simply put workforce requirements, for example, on some of the Medicaid recipients that are able-bodied, there’s over $100 billion there. If we get rid of these electronic vehicle mandates, there’s over $100 billion there. If we get rid of this IRS Army funding that the previous or the current administration wanted to do, there’s billions and billions of dollars there. How about the Federal Department of Education? These are all things that uh our as far as is i’m concerned and my conservative colleagues this is low-hanging fruit and that’s just a start so we intend on communicating that to the president frankly i think that he has already exhibited a willingness to listen to those things but uh more than anything we’ve got to be able to demonstrate to the american people who put us in charge who gave us this responsibility and this privilege of leading that we’re not going to just continually run up the credit card. And so that’s going to be a real focus for our discussions.
SPEAKER 09 :
Congressman, are the 80,000 new IRS agents going to survive?
SPEAKER 01 :
I hope not. And I don’t think so, to be honest. Because again, I’m going to go back to my blunt comments earlier. I think that falls in the category of stupid when we start looking at doing things like that. And those are some of the policies that just don’t need to be there. You know, there is a argument, a fiscal argument for raising the debt ceiling. I did not support it prior. And I know at least I think I know why the president wants to do it. That’s to give some fiscal running room for default and the bond markets and all of that. However, when you do that, you send a message to the people of America that you’re willing to increase that credit card limit that we don’t have backing for and you’re willing to spend it. I’m not saying necessarily I wouldn’t support it for fiscal reasons, but I would need to see some spending cuts with it. And I think my colleagues are of the same mindset.
SPEAKER 09 :
Programs like Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare are something that a lot of people have come to depend upon and expect kind of the third rail. Is it possible to reduce spending in the way that you would like to see so that we see that $36 trillion debt go down rather than up without touching those kind of programs?
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, that’s a conversation that’s going to take longer than what we have. However, I think the short answer is long-term, no. That’s simply too big of a part of the overall budget that is on kind of an autopilot. And it’s not been solvent for some time. It does need reform, but it’s not a simple one to address. But there are some things we can do in the meantime. And so we want to try to attack first things first. But to your point, I think that will have to be addressed if we’re going to solve this problem long term.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. It’s easy to blame politicians. But in reality, there’s a lot of people in the public who want what comes with that debt. And we’re all going to have to take our medicine if we’re going to fix this, I think. Congressman Fulcher, thank you so much for your time today.
SPEAKER 01 :
My honor. Thanks for having me on today.
SPEAKER 09 :
Coming up, we’ll get an on the ground update from the historic wildfires in Los Angeles from a pastor of one of the oldest churches in the area. Stay with us right here on Washington Watch.
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During these challenging times for our nation, Family Research Council continues to serve as a watchman on the wall for faith, family, and freedom. And together, thanks to your support, we’re making an eternal impact. 2024 has been another year of shining the light for biblical truth in Washington, D.C. This fall, over 1,000 spiritually active, governance-engaged conservatives gathered for the Pray, Vote, Stand Summit to pray for our nation and ensure that the issues impacting sage cons were understood and advanced. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins marked a major milestone this year, its 900th episode, and added the Washington Watch News Desk, a new production that presents the top news each day from a biblical worldview. The Washington Stand published 2,000 articles of news, commentary, and podcasts in 2024, garnering over 5 million views. FRC’s outlet for news and commentary continues to pursue the truth on the issues that matter most to you and your family. And with the launch of the Stand Firm app, you can listen to, watch, and read our content in one simple place. Pray for current issues, stay rooted in the scriptures, and engage the political sphere with a community of believers on our new platform. In 2024, FRC shaped public policy and culture, organizing the national gathering for prayer and repentance, where members of Congress and Christian leaders came together to seek God’s intervention in America. In May, FRC called upon believers to pray for and stand with Israel by dedicating a portion of their worship services to pray for Israel’s peace, prosperity, and protection. With Pray, Vote, Stand Decision 2024, FRC and Real Life Network led a powerful evening of election night coverage to analyze the election results and pray that our nation would turn back to God. We also filmed a transformative educational course, God and Government. Launching in January 2025, this series will explore the biblical and historical foundations of our government, empowering you to stand confidently in your role as a citizen of heaven and earth. Family Research Council thanks you for partnering with us for another year of standing for faith, family, and freedom.
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SPEAKER 09 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m Joseph Backholm sitting in for Tony today. As devastating wildfires ravage Los Angeles County, the toll on the community is staggering. With over 35,000 acres burned and at least 10 lives tragically lost. These fires are among the most destructive natural disasters in California’s history. Tens of thousands have been forced to evacuate, and as critical fire conditions persist, the heartbreak and uncertainty weigh heavily on all those affected. Communities hit particularly hard by the Eaton Canyon fire include Pasadena, Altadena, and the town of Sierra Madre. Residents are grappling with immense loss and are searching for hope. Joining me now to provide an on-the-ground update on the latest and what the needs are is Dr. Josh Swanson, senior pastor of one of the oldest churches in the area, Christ Church Sierra Madre. Dr. Swanson, welcome to Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thanks. It’s great to be with you.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you for taking some time from I know very important things that you have. Give us an update about how things are in your community.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, so it’s been really devastating on so many people in our church family. There’s been a number of families in our church who have lost literally everything. I was talking with a friend of mine yesterday who had lost his home. He was up in Altadena and he said he drove up the street and he said he just saw person after person standing in front of these empty lots, almost like people at a graveyard. you know, standing over a grave. And so it’s really, really devastating. And the loss is immense. And so, you know, we’re seeing on the one hand, people grappling with immense loss, but we’re also seeing really beautiful ways in which people are stepping up and caring really well for each other. And so we see both a mixture of grief and loss, as well as hope and the love of God kind of emerging in this place right now.
SPEAKER 09 :
We know that fires are constantly moving and understand they’re still burning. Is the threat ongoing in your community or has it moved through?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, so the threat has moved through for now. They have lifted some of the evacuation mandates in Sierra Madre. And so more of the residents are coming back. Our family was evacuated and we returned home last night and talked to many other families who have kind of had the same thing. So we’re not in imminent danger right now. And we’re thankful for that. I understand that on Monday, It sounds like winds are supposed to pick back up again. And so they’re trying to get a handle on things over the weekend to prevent the communities that are most at risk from being in danger.
SPEAKER 09 :
What you’re dealing with is just a husband and a father in your own right, but also as a pastor of a broader conversation, you’re going to have church on Sunday. What are you thinking in terms of how are you going to talk about what it is that you’re experiencing and what is the way for Christians to navigate this?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, so one of the things that we’ve done as a community last night and then the night before that and then tonight we’re going to do it again is we’ve just had these prayer gatherings where our community gathers together for support and for sharing and just to pray together. And so we’ve had people who have lost. who have dear friends that have lost everything. There were people at our gathering that I went to a couple nights ago who had themselves lost everything. And so to come together and to be able to share with one another about where we’re at, we’re feeling disoriented and confused or maybe some people oddly at peace in the midst of the chaos, and then just to pray together. So that’s what we’ve been doing over the last couple days. And as we move into Sunday, we’re also going to spend space in our church service in prayer. We’re going to have somebody get up and share who’s lost. a home. And yeah, and we’re just going to lean into God and to him as our great rock in the midst of all of the chaos. So that’s the plan moving into Sunday.
SPEAKER 09 :
Amen to that. And I know it’s very early in terms of the reaction, but do you expect this to create hostility amongst your community and a closeness to a God who would allow something like this to happen? Or are they going to look for perspective and hope that the gospel might be able to provide?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I don’t at all expect hostility. I actually look forward to seeing our community, as they have been over the last couple of days, really unite together. And you see first responders, you see government officials, you see church leaders, you see leaders in the community and teachers and this sort of thing kind of working together toward a common end. And so that’s really hopeful for me. And so I… And I do think that in periods of chaos and crisis, oftentimes people do look to God, and so we look forward to that. I had a conversation with a guy the other day who had lost his home, and he just said, you know, I’m recognizing in losing everything – what really matters to me. It’s relationships. It’s God. And I think that this moment can really provide that for a lot of people, kind of a wake-up call in some respects. But yeah, I haven’t experienced anything like hostility, and I wouldn’t expect that in the future. I think people will work together and unite together across denominational lines and people who believe, people who don’t believe, working together for the common good.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s encouraging to hear and we will pray for more of that. But Josh, last question I think I have time for. A lot of us from around the country are just observing in horror what’s happening there in California and our hearts go out. How would you like us to pray? What are the practical things that we may or may not be able to do from our vantage points in Iowa and New Jersey and wherever we are around the country, just being sympathetic? What would you ask us to do?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, thank you for that question. And thank you to everyone who is watching this, who you’ve been praying for us and we don’t know one another, but you love the body of Christ and your heart is broken over what you’re seeing. So thank you for your prayers. And there’s been a number of people that have given financially to organizations in the area that are working. That’s something people can do. Our church is collecting funds and resources to distribute to those who have needs. And people I know are rallying together to support us in that way. And that’s really helpful, you know, way to support. And I think one thing that that has just kind of occurred to me over the last few days in watching how people have lost everything has felt like supported during this time is what came to mind is that phrase, think global, but act local. And in many respects, what is carrying people through is the body of Christ being the body of Christ. checking in with each other, caring for each other, loving each other, having each other’s lives.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m gonna have to cut you off right there. Do that. Because we are out of time. We will try to do that, bear one another’s burdens. Dr. Swanson, thank you much for joining me today. Godspeed. Yeah, blessings, thanks. We’ll be right back here on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
They really are making waves out in the political world and doing it from the light of the Lord. It’s really humbling for me as a college student who has been involved in the life movement for only a couple of years to be able to witness it alongside of some of the people who have spent their entire lives fighting. A huge thing that sets FRC’s internship apart from others is they are looking for what they can pour into you instead of what they can get out of you. I have talked to so many of my friends who have interned other places and they’re responding to emails or taking phone calls and doing things like that, but here we get real hands-on experience and get to talk to important people and do important things that we get to see the impact of.
SPEAKER 11 :
The throne of Jesus Christ is unchallenged. His name was never on the ballot to begin with, and it’s never gonna be on the ballot. He’s the King of Kings, and he’s the Lord of Lords, and nothing’s gonna change that. And so our mission stays the same, preach the gospel, make disciples, get ready for heaven. In the meantime, that we’re to advance the concerns of the kingdom of God here on earth.
SPEAKER 12 :
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SPEAKER 09 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m Joseph Backholm sitting in for Tony today. Yesterday, a federal district court in Kentucky issued a decision blocking the outgoing Biden administration’s unlawful attempt to change the meaning of sex in Title IX of the Civil Rights Act to include gender identity. Now, Title IX is a federal law designed to create equal opportunities for women in education and athletics. We touched on this briefly yesterday, but we want to get a legal perspective today. So here to discuss the ruling in the state of Tennessee versus Cardona is Matt Sharp. He’s a senior counsel and the director of the Center for Public Policy at Alliance Defending Freedom. ADF attorneys represent a West Virginia high school female athlete and the Christian Educators Association International in the lawsuit alongside the state of Tennessee. Matt, welcome back to Washington Watch. Hey, thanks for having me on. Well, give us your rundown of this ruling and what it means.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, this was a colossal ruling. We’ve had several courts across the country that have issued a preliminary injunction against the Biden administration’s unlawful Title IX rule, this rule that impacts women’s privacy, safety, fairness, and sports. But what the Kentucky court did for the first time is actually vacate this rule. That means it’s essentially wiped off the books nationwide. So whether you’re in a red state, blue state, no matter where you are, The Biden administration and any future administrations cannot use this rule to try and force a school or college to allow men and girls locker rooms, restrooms on women’s teams or violate any other rights to free speech or parental rights.
SPEAKER 09 :
How do you expect life to be different now post this decision?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, you think back, 2016 is when this whole battle first started. We had the Obama administration issue this dear colleague letter trying to rewrite Title IX to include gender identity. So we’ve had these ups and downs that all culminated with earlier this year, the Biden administration pushing this Title IX rule. So across the country, we’ve had parents, female athletes, and others reach out saying, our school’s telling us they have to allow a boy in my girl’s locker room, in the restroom, on even overnight school trips. And everybody kept pointing to this rule and to what the Biden administration was doing. So this federal court ruling, wiping the rule away, is going to really take the government’s boot off the neck of schools across the country and make sure that they’re doing good policies that protect privacy, that protect speech and parental rights, rather than undermining those important constitutional rights.
SPEAKER 09 :
I know that’s very encouraging news to a lot of people who are watching and listening to our conversation who have been, you know, dazed and confused by the developments over the last four years in particular. But Matt, this is one lawsuit involving Title IX where we got this good decision, but there are many more. How do you expect this decision out of Kentucky to impact all of the other litigation around Title IX?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, as I mentioned, when this rule dropped, Alliance Defending Freedom, we filed five different lawsuits across the country on behalf of students, teachers, even school districts challenging this rule. And so far, every single one of those courts in our cases has issued a preliminary injunction, but it’s been limited. It’s only applied to the specific states involved, the specific school districts involved. So this ruling, number one, makes a difference because it has that nationwide application. But second, because this is the first time the court has actually said we’re going to vacate the rule, we determined that the Biden administration didn’t have the authority to do this. that as the court described, it actually flies in the face and turns Title IX on its head to try and say that a man can be a woman and have access to women’s spaces and opportunities. So we think this is sound ruling. What we hope to see is that in those other court cases I mentioned, the four other court cases that have been going through the process, that those courts are gonna adopt this same ruling. And so that we end up with court after court after court consistently ruling that this is unlawful, the administration doesn’t have the authority to do it. What the next step is though, is while this takes the federal governments out of the role, while it takes it away from the pressure on schools, we still have a lot of states that are adopting bad policies. So you have like the situation in Connecticut where they as a state have adopted a policy saying men should participate in women’s sports. So the next step is taking the same reasoning that Title IX doesn’t require this and that it could actually violate Title IX to put men on women’s teams and take that into states that are adopting bad local or statewide policies. So we’ve got a big victory at the federal level. We’ve still got work to do at the state level to go any place where they’re trying to undermine privacy, safety or fairness in sports and challenge those policies as well.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s a good reminder. Matt, why is this case different in the ruling? You mentioned the other cases where there were favorable results, but they were limited to the circumstances of that case in a preliminary injunction. But in this case, the judge made a much broader decision. Is that because the facts in this case were different or the judge just saw the situation differently?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it’s actually because this is what all of these cases were working towards. Every one of them, we were asking the courts there involved to vacate this rule, to wipe it off the books so that it couldn’t be applied anywhere. The court so far had not reached that final determination. So this Kentucky case was the first one to sort of go to the finish line, to look at all of the facts, look at all of the evidence, look at all of the arguments and properly determine that if you look at Title IX and its original intent, that the goal there was to ensure women had equal opportunities in athletics and education, that that original intent was completely undermined by what the Biden administration was doing with this rule. So this is really the culmination of all of those cases. Every one of those other ones, this is what we’re asking for as well. And so we hope those courts will follow suit and reach the exact same outcome. But again, the big part of this is it is a nationwide ruling. No matter where you live, the Title IX rule cannot be enforced against you.
SPEAKER 09 :
That is great news. Matt, very quickly in our remaining seconds, because we are seeing a change in administration, do you expect this decision to be appealed?
SPEAKER 08 :
We hope not. You know, we’ve only got a few days left in the Biden administration. We fully expect and hope the Trump administration will not appeal this and, in fact, start taking steps to enact better rules that protect women’s privacy and safety and equal opportunities in sports.
SPEAKER 09 :
Matt Sharpe, thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 09 :
When we return, our weekly worldview conversation with David Cross. Stay with us.
SPEAKER 12 :
Hello, I’m Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council here in Washington, D.C. Behind me is one of the most recognizable buildings in all the world, the U.S. Capitol. What does it stand for? Well, most people say government. But do you know the Bible talks about four institutions of government? Do you know what they are? And do we have a republic or a democracy? Well, what do you say? Also, what about this thing, separation of church and state? Does that mean Christians shouldn’t be involved in government? Guess what? We address those issues and more in our new God and Government course. I invite you to join us to see what the historical record and the Bible has to say about government. Join us for God and Government.
SPEAKER 09 :
The world is hurting, streets are filled with crime, families are broken, sin is celebrated, and God is mocked. Everywhere we look, the wages of our sin are on full display. As Christians, we know that surrender to God’s will is the solution to our biggest problems, but not everyone agrees. Even in church, we hear people say the most important thing is to be tolerant, that we shouldn’t impose a morality on other people, and that loving our neighbor means celebrating what they do. but you can’t do that. It’s not that you don’t love your neighbor, you do, but you care about God’s opinion more than your neighbor’s opinion, and this makes you different. In fact, sometimes it makes you feel alone, like you are the only one. But there is good news. You are not alone, not even close. Research has found that there are 59 million American adults who are a lot like you. There are millions of people around the country who are born again, deeply committed to practicing their faith, and believe the Bible is the reliable Word of God. But that’s not all. They’re also engaged in our government. They’re voters. They’re more likely to be involved in their community, and they’re making a difference in elections. The problem is that a lot of them feel alone, too. We want to change that. FRC wants to connect these 59 million Americans to speak the truth together, no matter the cost. If you want to learn more about this group and what it means to be a spiritually active, governance-engaged conservative, or if you want to find out if you are one of these sage cons yourself, go to frc.org slash sagecon and take the quiz to find out. The world is hurting, and we have the solution. We can’t do it alone, but we can do it if we work together. That’s what we’re working toward every day. Join us. Go to FRC.org slash S-A-G-E-C-O-N, SageCon, to learn more. That’s S-A-G-E-C-O-N, SageCon, to learn more. Welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m Joseph Backholm sitting in for Tony today. Quick reminder that FRC and Wellverse to the ministry of Jim Garlow are hosting an inauguration praise and prayer convocation on Sunday, January 19th at Greater New Hope Baptist Church in Washington, D.C. If you plan to be in the area, I invite you to join us as we worship the Lord and pray for our nation leading up to the presidential inauguration. Registration is free, but space is limited. So register today. You can do so at frc.org slash prayer. Well, we’re now 10 days into the new year, and there has been no shortage of news so far. With so much going on, it can be easy to gloss over the headlines. But as Christians, we want to make sure we analyze every headline through the lens of Scripture. How do we think about these things biblically? That’s why we like to conclude the week on Washington Watch with a biblical worldview conversation. So joining me now for that discussion is David Claussen, who is the director of the Center for Biblical Worldview here at Family Research Council. David, good to see you. Happy New Year.
SPEAKER 07 :
Happy New Year. Great to see you as well, Joseph.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, we’re going to cover a couple of stories, and I think we want to start with the fires in California, because that really does have the nation’s attention. Our hearts go out, of course, to everybody who is suffering a tremendous loss. Did God do this?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, Joseph, this is kind of an age-old question. I think I first, as a young boy, had to think about a question kind of along these lines. It would have been the summer of 2004. I was living in Orlando, Florida, and we had three hurricanes blow through in a series of, I think, four or five weeks. And I think that’s where I first started to really think about kind of what you would now call natural evil. And I think it’s important for Christians to realize there is a distinction between natural evil, versus moral evil. I think moral evil is a category we’re more familiar with. These are sins that are carried out by moral agents, individual people, whereas natural evil is kind of what you just observe, things that take place in the natural order. And I think it’s important to note, Joseph, this is part of the consequences of living in a Genesis 3 fallen world. Romans 8, Paul makes this point, actually, that creation itself groans, creation itself longs for redemption. And so we live in a fallen world. Now, you know, we could look at some of the political decisions, Joseph, that have led up to why some of these fires are maybe as big and bad as they are. And maybe there is some moral blame there. But I think in short, this is a good example, such as a hurricane or tsunami of natural evil, the fact that we do live in a fallen world that, again, we see reflected in the headlines.
SPEAKER 09 :
Does that make us feel better about what we’re experiencing? I mean, what’s the way to process this, whether you live in a hurricane region, and a lot of people do, and they’ve had their lives ruined in that way, their homes, I would say, ruined in that way, and now you’re seeing entire neighborhoods and maybe even towns just obliterated by these fires. Is this just, you know, we just chalk it up to we’re unlucky?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, I don’t know if I would put it like that, Joseph. I think, you know, as a Christian looking at this through the lens of the biblical worldview, even, you know, unimaginable evil, we know, and if you’re a regular listener to this program, you’ve heard me reference Romans 8.28 that says, all things work together for good to those who love God. You know, Christians do have a category that even the worst things that can happen in our lives can be used for good. They can accomplish purposes that we can’t see in the midst of it. But, again, some of the images that my wife and I are watching on cable TV last night of people losing their homes and their possessions and just getting out by the skin of their teeth, I think the category that we as Christians have is, again, the category I mentioned earlier of natural evil. The fact that we live in a Genesis 3 fallen world, again— Theology is always just behind the headlines, and I think that is kind of the theological category. But again, as Christians, and praise God for some of the stories we’re hearing of churches there in L.A. that are just doing heroic ministry, mercy ministry, and helping folks. Again, we have the category of prayer as well, and I think around the country, we need to be praying for our brothers and sisters who are living through something that, again, is pretty unimaginable.
SPEAKER 09 :
David, one of the things that we’ve observed from those who are observing this situation is the tendency to blame. And, you know, of course, sadly, we live in a world where everything is the fault of your political opponent. And so that’s kind of an instinct that seems to have been hardwired into us. You know, somehow I’ve seen people blame Trump I don’t know what the logical connection is there because he hasn’t been president for a while, but certainly they do it. And, you know, oh, it’s climate change and it’s all you mean, you know, Republicans and conservatives who haven’t done enough to stop climate change. And then you’ve seen from right to left. Well, you didn’t capture the water because you cared too much about climate. smelt and so you didn’t have any water to fight this thing and you did bad forest management because you worship the forest and you thought it was bad for people to go in there and clear the underbrush, so you’ve made this much worse than it needs to be. Now, how much logic there is to any of those arguments, you know, we’ll debate that for a long time, but there does seem to be in kind of our human nature, this desire to blame someone when something bad happens. But you just kind of described, well, in a fallen world, Things are broken and things decay and there are storms and there are fires. And, you know, our life is just going to be challenging because we live in a world infected by sin. What do you make of the instinct to find someone to blame?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, I think that speaks to the human instinct to try to explain our lives. I think all of us are, you know, when something like this happens, you want an explanation. We are rational reasoning creatures and we’re trying to explain. And for a secular kind of world that’s almost post-christian in many ways i think the only rationale or the only justifications that a lot of people have is well there must be some sort of political problem that look for the political solution again the category that i described earlier of natural evil and of living in a fallen world that is an alien concept to a post-christian world joseph And so, again, I do think, you know, in the months and years to come, I’m sure there’s going to be the political blame game. And some of the things that are being suggested by whether it’s a CNN anchor or a Fox News anchor, there might be merit to some of these critiques on how the forests are managed and whatnot. But I think right now. As the fires are still raging, I would say that the first impulse of a Christian should just be prayer, praying that people, those who are made in God’s image, are safe for wisdom, for the authorities that are on the ground, from President Biden all the way down to the fire chiefs there in L.A. County. I think that needs to be kind of the first impulse, first instinct of a Christian.
SPEAKER 09 :
And there’s one other point that I hesitate to make, but I’m gonna make it anyway, because really the harm is ongoing and we are genuinely sympathetic for the loss that people are experiencing moment by moment in California. But Jesus in his Sermon on the Mount, in Matthew 6 specifically, gave us some wisdom that I think this is a great reminder of, and the fact that we should not store up for ourselves treasures on earth where moth and vermin destroy, or fires destroy in this case, where thieves break in and steal, but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven. where moths and vermin and fires do not destroy, where thieves do not break in and steal. And this seems to be a painful but important reminder of how temporary everything that we have is. And some of the neighborhoods that are being destroyed are some of the wealthiest neighborhoods in America and therefore in the world. And these are people who presumably Five days ago, felt a tremendous sense of security and financial security and that all is well in the world and in many ways. And then in a moment, they’ve lost so much of what made them secure. And again, while we remain sympathetic for that, it’s a reminder of the fact that everything here is temporary. And if we hold too loosely, to material things for our security and for our joy and our satisfaction and our contentment, we may get a very rude reminder and we can’t take it with us. And it’s a good reminder to really store up our treasures in places where they are eternal and where storms and fires cannot take them from us. But David, let’s pivot to the next story, kind of of this week. I think it’s got some important worldview implications for us. And that’s the funeral of President Jimmy Carter. And we know he died at 100 years of age, lived a long life. By all accounts, a good, honorable man. By many accounts, not our best president. You know, that’s debated, of course, but this isn’t the time to go over his presidential record. What were your thoughts from a worldview perspective, again, as you observed how our country honored him?
SPEAKER 07 :
You know, a moment ago, Joseph, I used the term post-Christian, this idea that we’ve kind of moved into an era that is—we’ve moved beyond supernaturalism. We’ve moved beyond theism or Christianity. And yet— This week has reminded us that maybe we’re not quite as post-Christian, or maybe another way to put this is that when something of the magnitude of a world leader passes from the scene, the only language that really can communicate the moment is language borrowed from the Christian tradition. So even in the cathedral, the National Cathedral built in the late 1800s, it took them over 80 years to build that. Even the architecture of that building, Joseph, is kind of based on the medieval architecture The idea is that when you walk into a cathedral with these huge, lofty ceilings, the impulse is that you look up. Well, Joseph, I’m sure you know this, but that’s intentional. That’s why cathedrals have been built that way. They’re communicating the transcendence of God. And so even you have the kind of the vestiges, investments of Christian worship service yesterday. You had scripture readings. You had hymns, a beautiful rendition of Amazing Grace. And so, again, it’s interesting that a lot of our culture wants to move beyond Christianity, and yet I think we’re, I guess, Christian enough that, again, in a state funeral, the Christian vocabulary is really the only thing that communicates kind of the seriousness of the moment, the transitory nature of life. But I’m sure we can talk about other aspects of the survey yesterday, but those are initial thoughts that came to mind.
SPEAKER 09 :
yeah the architecture of a cathedral and indeed is a an exhortation and maybe even a tool to help us do what i think it’s colossians to set your mind on things above not the things of earth right and it is an encouragement to look up because that’s where we find ultimately our purpose and our meaning and and our creator But despite the, as you described, unambiguously Christian nature of parts of this service, there was another moment that was less Christian, and because The song Imagined by the Beatles was played. And we know that Jimmy Carter was a lifelong Baptist, self-described born-again Christian, an actual Sunday school teacher, not just a proverbial Sunday school teacher. So a committed Christian man. And then, at his service, honoring his life, the song Imagine was sung by the Beatles. Quick reminder of what this song says. Imagine there’s no heaven. It’s easy if you try. No hell below us, above us only sky. Imagine all the people living for today. Now, that is… not a Christian message to imagine there’s no heaven and there’s no hell, because Jesus exhorts us to live with a constant awareness of the fact that there is a heaven and there is a hell. What do you make of that interjection into this service, David?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, yeah, John Lennon in the lyrics goes on to say also the idea that no religion too, no possessions. And what’s interesting, Joseph, is we know that President Carter planned this to the minute. You know, presidents actually, I’ve been told, weeks into their presidency are asked to plan out their funeral in the case of a national emergency. So we know President Carter’s fingerprints were actually all over the service yesterday.
SPEAKER 09 :
So he actually requested Imagine to be part of the service?
SPEAKER 07 :
which would be my understanding, because again, presidents are told that they need to plan this out. So again, a lot of thought went into this, that there wasn’t anything that just happened accidentally.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s news to me. It felt like somebody hijacked it and wanted to do kind of what the secularists do whenever they’re trying to be like poetic and philosophical, which is play the Beatles song, Imagine, because we’ve seen that in other contexts. But okay, continue your point.
SPEAKER 07 :
My understanding is, again, every president plans every detail out. But what’s so interesting, Joseph, is the juxtaposition of this Christian architecture, Christian hymns, Christian scripture, and then basically a song to secular humanism. John Lennon, by the way, himself admitted that the lyrics sound a whole lot like the Communist Manifesto. Lennon himself recognized that. And I think the point I’ll make, Joseph, briefly, is that here in our Center for Biblical Worldview, we talk about a lot how 6% of Americans have a biblical worldview, but 88% have a synchronistic worldview, meaning that most of our friends and neighbors pick and choose ideas and thoughts from this worldview. Then they’ll pick some thoughts from this worldview. They put them together. That’s their worldview. Now, because they’re picking and choosing, almost like you go to a cafeteria, your worldview is going to have ideas, thoughts, thoughts. that really don’t cohere. They’re not coherent, but again, most people don’t realize that or even care. And so I think this is a reflection of the modern age of, again, even a worldview that Jimmy Carter had apparently really influenced by Christianity. Nevertheless, these other ideas, these other thoughts clearly found a resonance in his worldview. So I think it really is in one sense that funeral yesterday is a parable of the modern age that wants to leave Christianity but it maybe isn’t ready to make the break cleanly yet.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, it does. It is kind of this syncretistic symbolism of very Christian and then very secular, all kind of compiled into one as if they are consistent. But that does seem to be an explanation of kind of the confusion that our country is experiencing spiritually in many ways. But I saw somebody, I think it was on Twitter, They said that if Imagine was ever played at their funeral, they would jump out of the coffin and make sure it was your funeral as well. I kind of share that sentiment, but hopefully that won’t happen. I’m confident it won’t be at my funeral, and it definitely won’t be at yours. David Claussen, thanks for joining me today. I imagine it won’t. God bless, Joseph. Well played on that one there, David Klassen. Thank you for joining us, friends. We’ll see you next time here on Washington Watch. Until then, fear God and nothing else.
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