Join us on Family Talk as Gary Bauer continues his touching conversation with Mark Johanson. Discover how Mark, a devoted Christian, balanced a demanding career in government service with his commitment to his faith and his beloved wife, Sherry. Mark’s journey from the Air Force Academy to influential roles in Washington is not just a story of professional success but of bringing faith into every corner of life. Learn from his experiences as he shares the poignant tale of meeting Sherry, the love of his life, and how their marriage of 45 years was rooted in prayer and dedication.
Welcome everyone to Family Talk. It’s a ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute supported by listeners just like you. I’m Dr. James Dobson and I’m thrilled that you’ve joined us.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, welcome back to Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. I’m Roger Marsh. Have you ever wondered what it’s like to be a Christian in Washington, D.C., to work in the corridors of power while staying true to your faith? Well, on the last edition of Family Talk, we met Mark Johanson, whose decades in military service took him from the Air Force Academy to the Pentagon. But his real story isn’t about his impressive career. It’s about bringing Jesus into every room he entered, even when that meant standing alone. On today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, Gary Bauer, our Senior Vice President of Public Policy here at the JDFI, will continue his conversation with Mark Johanson. And Mark’s going to share about meeting his wife, Sherry, at a wedding reception with possibly the worst opening line you’ve ever heard. This is going to be great. And yet, God used that awkward moment to launch what became a 45-year marriage that would inspire everyone around them. You’ll also hear how they navigated seasons of heartbreak together, always keeping their faith at the center. Mark and Sherry’s story is a beautiful reminder of God’s faithfulness through every season of life. So now let’s rejoin Gary Bauer and Mark Johanson on today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk.
SPEAKER 02 :
So, well, Mark, here we are for day two of telling your great story of service in government and incredible positions, but also your service to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So we’re glad you could be here again today.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, amen. I’m glad to be here as well and especially to talk about the ability or the pleasure or privilege of serving the Lord within government. And so I think we’ve got some interesting stories to talk about.
SPEAKER 02 :
No question about it. So let’s get right into it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER 02 :
So is my recollection correct that at the Air Force Academy, is that when you first met your lovely wife?
SPEAKER 03 :
No, actually not. I am glad I didn’t meet her while I was going to the academy because one of the things she told me later after, well, after we got engaged, I had no interest in cadets. I wanted nothing to do with the military. I mean, it was like love and marriage snuck up on us because we both thought, well, you know, we’re dating and she’s not interested in a military person and I’m not sure I want to get married yet. And so, you know, the Lord had other plans for us, so…
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, tell us about that because it was at a wedding reception, right? Yes, it was.
SPEAKER 03 :
It was something else. So I had returned from Thule, Greenland, spending a year up there on remote. So another miracle that the Lord provided, and that was that I ran into a retired colonel who had flown for my dad, Joe Gines was his name. Wonderful, wonderful person. I just happened to run into him there in Colorado Springs. And he said, why don’t you come to my wedding reception? And I said, what? And he said, yeah, I’m getting married again because he lost his wife probably five, six years before. And he says, I’m marrying a lady who lost her husband. And I said, okay, fine. And then he went on to say, oh, yeah, there’s going to be some lovely ladies there. So I said, well, I’ll be there.
SPEAKER 02 :
I was going to say, do exactly what you’re telling me, right? Get you to the wedding reception.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you know, if you think about it, where do you meet people that tend to be somebody decent to meet? And a wedding reception would be one of those. Sure. Norm. Normally. So I went to the wedding reception and I’m kind of hanging with Joe. We’re talking and I’m standing by him and I’m looking around the room and I saw this gorgeous blonde angel with a blue dress on, blue eyes. I’m thinking, oh my gosh, how do I get to meet her? How do I get to meet her? And as I told you, I was a bit of an introvert. And the next thing I know, she’s coming straight across the room, heading towards Joe and myself, because I’m maybe five, six feet from them. She comes right up to Joe, and she says, Joe, who does this man belong to? And I thought, did I hear that right? And fortunately, my brain worked quickly. And I said, well, it could be you if you play your cards right.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mark, if you would have run that by me before you said it, I could have told you that was not the right approach.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you knew Sherry, and so she looked at me with a withering glance, and I’m thinking, oh, I blew this. I’m trying to be cute or funny.
SPEAKER 02 :
So how long was it from that rather unusual first exchange to when you were having your own wedding reception?
SPEAKER 03 :
It was a year.
SPEAKER 02 :
Just a year?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, we dated a year ago. Because she was kind of standoffish. The first thing that we did, and I think this is so important, is after she said yes, we both got down on our knees and we prayed to the Lord. We said, God, we don’t know what we’re doing. This marriage is in your hands. Our lives are in your hands. We want to follow you. Please, please guide us in everything that we do.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, Mark, so many marriages today, God is nowhere in the ceremony. I mean, it’s really amazing. It is because in every wedding that is really a wedding ceremony, There are three entities involved, a man, a woman, and God that is overlooking this covenant between them and that their marriage ought to depend on. And the fact that that doesn’t happen these days is, I think, another indication of how deep the trouble is that the country has.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, amen. Amen. And I mean, that’s what you and Dr. Dobson said.
SPEAKER 02 :
have focused on for years is the the strength of the family is the underlying strength of our our nation of the world so you’re you’re starting out and isn’t this around the time then that uh that dr dobson absolutely into your lives and you too pretty much close let’s just keep it on
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, because this is 79. We’re just married. And then we get our roots ripped up because we’re sent to Omaha, Nebraska. And especially Sherry because she had her mom and her sisters were in Colorado. And here she was important in the courthouse. And now she’s a military wife and we’re going out into the midst of Nebraska. Okay. Nothing against Nebraska, but she wasn’t prepared for that. But it turned out to be a great blessing. Once again, the Lord provided. It was the time that we were refined in the fire as a young married couple because I was thrown into a new job. The main thing there was I was put on the inspector general team, and we were traveling every other week for maybe two weeks. So I was gone two-thirds of the time. I’d be in Turkey, in Greece, you name it. We were going all over the place. It was the strategic air command inspector general. So we were doing the northern tier of the missile folks in North Dakota, et cetera, and then overseas with the space folks. And the first thing I found out was these men, when we get on this C-141 and fly overseas, they don’t seem to have the same perspective I do on marriage or a walk with the Lord. They’re taking their wedding rings off. The first thing I want to do is find the nearest bar and where they can chase women when we land. And I decided right there and when I needed to be careful because I didn’t want to be cocooned off as this radical Christian goody two-shoes. So I always tried to walk with them. We’d go to the bar, and I’d spend maybe 30, 45 minutes. And when they started losing it, I’d get out of there. And then, for example, at Athens, I loved it because I went up to the Parthenon, and then I went on Paul’s trail to Mars Hill and the Oropagus. And it was interesting because slowly but surely, some of these other men started following me and saying, oh, you seem to know your history. Could you take us along, too? And so I could preach to them, and they didn’t even know it. I’d say, you know, the Apostle Paul stood right here. He’s talking about the unknown God. And he’s talking to these folks that knew Socrates and Aristotle and all of this great philosophy. And then he’s telling them, hey, you’re a bit wrong here. Let me tell you about the true God. The one true God. There’s one, and it ain’t Zeus.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, so often the best presentation of the gospel is just letting people see us live our lives, right? Yes, it is. That’s what you were doing.
SPEAKER 03 :
But like I said, it was a balance because I knew that if I went too far in rejecting them, let’s say, pointing the finger and saying, what the – If they asked me, I would tell them why I didn’t think it was a good idea. But slowly but surely, these folks started coming to me and asking me advice and they’re sharing situations with their marriages and their kids. And I mean I became – I became the – Kind of the traveling chaplain for that group. And, I mean, that was great. And Sherry was in the same situation. The men would leave, and the women would all get together and say, oh, let’s go to this bar. Let’s go dancing. Let’s do this or that. And they took their wedding rings off. I thought, wow, isn’t this something? Both sides are doing their thing. And then Sherry, like I did, tried to hang in for a little bit, and then she would leave when it started getting a little untoward. But the women started coming to her because they admired the marriage that we had. And they started talking to her, and she got to bring them to the chapel and just feed into their lives. And it was just— It was a time of growth for us, for our marriage, and for us to stand strong with the challenge.
SPEAKER 02 :
Did Sherry start listening to Dr. Dobson on the radio?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, let me get back to Dr. Dobson.
SPEAKER 02 :
You remember him? Yes, I do. Our founder and everything.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m sorry. I went down a little bit down the rabbit hole, but it certainly feeds back into Dr. Dobson because we didn’t have this wisdom naturally. Yes. And what we’re talking to these wives and husbands are things that we’re hearing from Dr. Dobson. We’re applying it to our lives together as marries, and then we’re sharing it with these men and women.
SPEAKER 02 :
There’s so much more we could talk about about your government service and you’ve served a number of presidents and so forth. But I want to be sure we have time to deal with the fact that you and Sherry found each other. You’re each the love of your lives. And you were together for 45 years.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 02 :
But an event happens fairly early on. Her illness, tell us what happened.
SPEAKER 03 :
The last 20 years before she passed, she got breast cancer. And then it would go into remission. And then it would move and pop out again after about five years. And so we went through four bouts of five years. And we had three chemos and four radiation. And she had stuff cut off of her. You know, losing body parts as we’re going through this. And through it all, she was focused. She taught this class for 25 plus years at our church. And it became the largest women’s class there, 85 women usually as an average. And she’s putting her life into that. I mean, every day I’d get up, she would be already in the Word. I mean, she worked really hard on teaching. She wanted to impart the Word the best way she could, and she was very talented at that. And this class was tremendous. She would pick out ladies, and I got all kinds of cards from ladies all over the world, actually, because there are a lot of military families. And they went through her class at some point, and they remembered her, and then they heard about her passing. And I got the sweetest notes saying, You know, Sharon didn’t just teach. I mean, she was a wonderful teacher, but she put into our lives, and this is what she did for me and my husband and me and my kids. And she would come over, and I felt like her focus was on me, on me. And she’d find out what was going on, and she’d pour her life into mine. I mean, all of them had kind of the same theme of what she did.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s amazing that she’s— having this struggle in her own life, and yet she’s pouring herself out to help the lives of others.
SPEAKER 03 :
That was number one. I actually was number two there because it was serve God and these ladies. That’s the number one thing I want to do. And then I get to my family. And, you know, that’s right because God’s first. And she felt that the way she was serving God was with those ladies, that flock, and And another lady wrote and said she was so good at figuring out our capabilities and our talents and pulling them out of us. Because this lady said, I was always scared to speak and I was always scared to tell people what to do. And she said, so Sherry came over one day and said, I want you to be the table leader for these 10 people. And she said back to Sherry, I can’t do that. I can’t do that. And Sherry said, yes, you can. And we’re going to work together and you’re going to do it. And the lady turned into a great leader. And she just said, I’m so grateful because I didn’t see that in myself. And she did. She saw it.
SPEAKER 02 :
So, Mark, I know obviously she was being treated, and of course you are faithfully praying. During these periods of remission, did you have a reasonable expectation that maybe the battle had been won, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, yes. In fact, I believed to the last minute, I mean, that she passed, that the Lord was going to provide a miracle. And I prayed that way. I said, Lord, I know we’re going through this, but I also know that you provide miraculous healing. And I said, I’m praying that that’s what you’ll decide to do. And she was that way too. It was kind of a sine wave. We’d go up and she was better. And then all of a sudden we’d come down in the valley and she could hardly walk. And then we’d go up again and it was… And Michelle was a great blessing because as a doctor, she really held—I mean, she was right there with her mom, and she helped me a lot in the hospital. It’s amazing. I didn’t write this, Dan, but this is—it’s amazing how quickly they’re ready to, say, go home and die. And we’re in a good hospital, but it seems like they’re ready to give up. And as a Christian, you don’t give up. You don’t give up until the Lord says, okay, it’s your time. And you go, yes, sir, we’re ready. But they’re ready to throw you under the bus in some ways.
SPEAKER 02 :
So you had the one daughter and now you’ve got a granddaughter. Yes, absolutely. And does she share part of your wife’s name?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, absolutely. It’s Eve Sherry. So Sherry is her middle name. And we, you know, that was, I lost Sherry. And of course, the first part of that, and I still cry. I think I cry every day at some point. I think of something. I see something. Yes. I watch a romantic movie and I think of when we had a situation similar and— And, of course, our president, Bart Brock, lost his wife.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. And tells— I read his pamphlet. Yeah, which is beautiful, isn’t it? It is.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, it— His situation definitely was a bit different, but there was a lot of gems in there that really applied to me. And it helped me come to the point—and I will get to a detail here if you want to hear it—but come to the point where I started saying, God, thank you for 45 wonderful years. Reading Bart’s pamphlet, as you brought up, and what he went through, I saw a lot of things in there. And it turned me around. Every morning I get up, as soon as my feet hit the floor, I thank God. I thank God for the 45 years. I thank God for Sherry. I thank God for the marriage that we had and being man and wife and also parents to Michelle. And what a wonderful, wonderful story. situation it was i mean it wasn’t perfect yeah we had some pretty good knockdown arguments occasionally anybody that says they don’t you know uh sure they’re lying because we’re human beings right and uh yeah but i usually realize that that she was right when we had the arguments and i say later i’d have to come back and say uh you were right i was i
SPEAKER 02 :
Mark, now you’re setting back the cause of men. I think that could be edited out there. I don’t know. Well, as we’re getting close to the end of our two days together, was there something else you wanted to share? You mentioned a detail that you wanted to share.
SPEAKER 03 :
Sure. The Lord has spoken to me directly. Maybe speaking is not the right word because I know that some pastors would say, what are you talking about? This doesn’t happen. But I got to share it from my heart. Has spoken to me directly three times. in my life. And it’s not been him speaking to me like Noah, but it was, he showed me, he gave me a dream. Something rolled across the road, which was a certain color, which indicated you need to go to this school because it was the school colors. I mean, can you believe that? We’re trying to decide on a school and this ball comes rolling across the road. And it’s the school colors, and they’re unusual. And I said, oh, well, I guess you’re supposed to go to that school, hon. But anyway, so the Lord gave me this dream that was incredible. Because I’m missing – and this feeds into how I came to the point of saying, God, thank you. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for 45 years. I’m grateful for that. And move a bit on from my – I mean, why? Why did I lose her? And it was Claire Isabel. I remember every stitch of it, it was like watching a high-definition movie. I’m on a train. I’m on a steam engine, you know, one of those old – coal-fired trains. And I used to do HO gauge, so maybe that’s why it was a steam engine.
SPEAKER 02 :
I don’t know. I used to collect trains, too.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, there you go. And so, beautiful train, and I’m in this beautiful car as if, you know, a high-class person would own this car from, you know, the railroad baron-type days. And I’m alone. I’m all alone. Nobody else is in there. But I feel peace, and I don’t know why, because I… I have this unusual situation where I’m feeling what I feel in the car, and I’m up above watching this. So I’ve got two minds at the same time. It’s hard to explain. But I have a bunch of luggage in the overhead. So the train’s going on. I’m looking out the window. It’s gorgeous. It’s Rocky Mountain, essentially, streams and everything. Just beautiful, beautiful Colorado-type scenery. And it slows down, and I have no clue where I’m at or where I’m going. And so I gather my luggage, and it’s kind of unwieldy. And so I stepped down through the door of the car, and then I’m down on the ground, and I’m still looking down because I’m trying not to drop my luggage. So I really haven’t looked up or around. And I’m looking down, and I see two feet. And they’re just brilliant. I mean, they’re shining. It’s just unbelievably brilliant. And I drop my luggage, and I look up, and I’m looking at this person, That is, the face is just unbelievable. And to this day, you know, that’s the Lord. And he says in this voice, which is just peaceful, authoritative. It’s the most beautiful voice you’ve ever heard. And it just gives me absolute peace. I mean, I’m not worried at all. And he says, you don’t really need that stuff here. You know, I’m looking down at my luggage. So I go, oh. And then I look around, and here’s this beautiful crystal clear lake. And I look across to the other shore, and there’s people as far as the eye can see. And then right in the front is Sherry. I’m sorry. and she’s jumping up and down she’s got this huge smile and she’s saying oh hon oh hon it’s so good to see you and then that was the end of the dream and after that I just said thank you God You gave me a good input on that.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s a beautiful story, Mark. Thank you for sharing that with us. And that’s what we’ve been promised. You were at Dr. Dobson’s memorial service. Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER 03 :
And thank you for your leadership there too.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, you’re welcome. But a number of us pointed out that to Dr. Dobson’s family, you’ll see him again. And we will see our loved ones again. I mean, the scripture is very clear about that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Amen. Thank God. Thank God.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, Mark, you have fought the good fight. You’ve finished the race in many ways. You’ve never abandoned your faith.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, don’t say I finished the race.
SPEAKER 02 :
I’m still running. I’m still running. What I mean is we’re near the end of two shows. Oh, got it. Got it.
SPEAKER 03 :
That race. Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
But it’s, you know, God has put you in a number of very important places, and you’ve always brought the cross of Jesus with you when you’ve been in those places. We deeply appreciate your partnership and support for the James Dobson Family Institute over the years, and you’ve supported my work with the groups I have here in Washington, D.C., and And so you are to us definitely an everyday hero, although we don’t run across people like you every day. And so we’re so glad to be able to spend some time these last two days for you to share your story with us and to tell us about your lovely wife. so that I think people will feel like they know her. So thank you, Mark. We appreciate you. Thank you, Gary.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you for all that you’ve done in the same place that you’ve always stood for integrity and for the Lord. Thank you so much for your leadership. Thank you.
SPEAKER 01 :
On today’s edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, we heard part two of Gary Bauer’s conversation with Mark Johansson, an everyday hero in every sense of the word, who’s been sharing his testimony about seeing God in space and serving him on Capitol Hill. If you’d like to hear today’s program again or go back and listen to part one as well, you’ll find parts one and two at jdfi.net. Well, during the past half hour, we’ve heard about Mark and Sherry Johansson’s 45-year marriage, and you know, it didn’t just happen by accident. It took commitment, faith, and understanding. And that’s why I wanna share with you about a free resource that Dr. Dobson prepared for couples to help them strengthen marriages. It’s called The Undeniable Differences Between Husbands and Wives. Drawing from Dr. Dobson’s decades of research and counseling, this digital guide explores why men and women approach life so differently. You’ll discover practical insights about communication, expectations, and what makes your spouse tick. Best of all, understanding these differences can help you appreciate each other rather than simply tolerating the differences. Now, you can download this free resource when you go to JDFI.net and search for that title, The Undeniable Differences Between Husbands and Wives. Again, it’s a free download available to you exclusively at JDFI.net. Every day at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, we’re reaching families who need biblical wisdom for their marriages, their parenting, and their faith. And your gift of any amount directly supports these broadcasts and helps us continue sharing life-changing biblical truth with families who need it most. To make a secure donation, go to JDFI.net. That’s JDFI.net. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and from all of us here at Family Talk and the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you can still trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
