The Hydroplate Theory offers a unified explanation for various geological phenomena, and this episode uncovers its secrets. Discover how the breaching of ancient lakes led to the rapid formation of iconic features such as the Grand Canyon. Our hosts navigate through the complexities of this theory, demonstrating how a better understanding of biblical events can lead to accurate scientific predictions. With insights into modern-day findings supporting this theory, this episode is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by geological wonders.
00:24:48 Petrified Wood and Its Connection to the Lakes
00:26:33 Latest Evidence Supporting Hydroplate Theory
SPEAKER 02 :
Greetings to the brightest audience in the country and welcome to Bob and Yart Live. Yesterday, we had Bob and Yart and Walt Brown talking about the hydroplate theory. And I mentioned briefly how one of the most compelling pieces of evidence that your theory is true is if it does a good job explaining a lot of different physical phenomena with just one explanation. And an example of that is with the hydroplate theory, which Bob and Walt were discussing, is how the hydroplate theory explains the origin of the Grand Canyon. That’s just one example among many. With that said, we are going to play today, this is Bob and Walt talking about the origin of the Grand Canyon, how the hydroplate theory does a great job explaining it, when other theories aren’t quite as compelling or persuasive. With that said, we’re going to jump right into this. If you want all of Walt Brown Week, you can find that by going to rsr.org. RSR stands for Real Science Radio. rsr.org, clicking on the store and checking out Walt Brown Week. You do not want to miss that. Hey, now let’s jump right into the broadcast.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, not to worry, here’s Bob Inyart.
SPEAKER 03 :
I have read creationist literature on the Grand Canyon, and I’ve been unhappy with it because after going to the canyon ten times and rafting in the canyon and trying to understand how it formed, I was unhappy with the creationist literature because I felt it didn’t really describe it. Well, I’ve just recently read the latest chapter of In the Beginning, which is available on Dr. Walt Brown’s website, creationscience.com. And, Walt, I have to tell you, I was thrilled with that chapter because for the first time in some 30 years of reading, I felt, wow, I understand how the Grand Canyon formed.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes, Bob, and I think you also now understand many other strange things that are found in the northern Arizona, southern Utah region, and parts of Colorado. Right, in the vicinity.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, things in the vicinity that were never associated with the Grand Canyon.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, for example, petrified wood. Petrified National Forest, biggest example of petrified wood concentrated, is directly connected to the formation of the Grand Canyon.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, why don’t we start with an overview of two lakes, two regions, huge inland lakes that existed after Noah’s Flood.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right, right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Could you describe those lakes to us?
SPEAKER 01 :
Let’s put our minds back in gear, and we’ll quickly go over things. It’ll raise some questions, but let’s skip them, or we’ll be here for a whole week. The floodwaters are covering the entire Earth. That was a global flood. Even the smaller mountains of the pre-flood Earth were covered. And now the floodwaters are starting to retreat. Don’t ask where to go.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s a very easy answer, but it takes 10 minutes to explain. Right. So the water is draining off the earth. The crust of the earth is thickening and crushing and rising up out of the water. And there’s basins in that crust that’s rising up out of the water. And every basin is going to be filled with water.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, there are lakes today, like the Great Lakes and Salt Lake.
SPEAKER 01 :
Minnesota has 10,000 lakes. Well, there would be 10 million lakes on the earth’s surface. Right. Huge lakes. And as the mountains are pushed up, such as the Rockies, which you’re very familiar with, Bob, you are concentrating a lot of mass on a small base. And so those mountains have to sink in. It’s just a simple grade school physics problem. There’s an unbalanced force. It’s got to sink into the mantle. And what’s going to give? Well, on either side of that sinking Rocky Mountains, the pressure is building up. because stuff is being shoved down. And so there’s going to come weak spots on the flanks of these mountain ranges that are sinking in that are going to break loose and rise in compensation for the downward sinking of the Rocky Mountains. Those rising regions are called plateaus. Plateaus are always found next to major mountain ranges. The Cascades mountain range up in northwestern United States, right next to it is the Columbia Plateau. The Rocky Mountains are right next to the Colorado Plateau. Huge. The largest mountain range on the earth by far, the Himalayas. What’s next to them? Largest plateau in the world, the Himalayan Plateau.
SPEAKER 03 :
Nepal in that area?
SPEAKER 01 :
Sure, sure. The ten largest mountain peaks in the world are in the Himalayas. So the Colorado Plateau is rising. And on this rising plateau, an area, by the way, is about the size of Germany. On that rising plateau are two huge lakes. One of them called Grand Lake. I discovered it in about 1987.
SPEAKER 03 :
Let me just say without adding detail that other creationists have since used your name for it, Grand Lake, and identified the same lake, but you did first discover it, and that’s pretty exciting.
SPEAKER 01 :
They don’t want to mention that.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, but okay. Okay. But I did.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s okay. Okay. Another lake that another geologist has found is called Hopi Lake, a little smaller. Grand Lake was about the size of Lake Michigan, size in volume and area, Lake Michigan. So here are these two huge lakes that are being lifted over a mile in the air on the Colorado Plateau. Now, what would happen if those lakes… gain more water than they lose. They’re going to lose water because they’re at high elevation and a lot of evaporation going on, but they’re going to gain water due to rainfall. And there’d be a lot of rainfall back in that period, right after the flood, because the moist air coming from the warm Pacific going across the Rockies is going to drop its moisture on the western flanks of the Rockies. So you’re going to get a lot of rainfall and drainage. And Grand Lake got to a point where it started to spill over its boundaries. And Grand Lake was very near a cliff system that was about 2,000 feet high. I call it the Echo Vermilion Cliff System. You can go see it today. And once it spills over that cliff system, once it starts to spill over, it’s going to erode a notch on the bank of Grand Lake that may be an inch or two deep. But the lake is big, so the level of the lake will not drop much, but the notch being eroded a few inches is going to let more water spill over it faster, and it’s going to cut down much, much faster than the lake’s level. And so you’re going to get a catastrophic dumping of that lake. It’s called breaching. So this water, roughly the equivalent of Lake Michigan, is spilling out through this deep notch over northern Arizona. it will undercut, when you see where Hopi Lake was, it will undercut the northwestern corner of Hopi Lake, spilling its water out as well.
SPEAKER 03 :
And so the two lakes spilled out their water and carved out the Grand Canyon. Right. But could we back up a step?
SPEAKER 1 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
My first trip to the Grand Canyon, driving there, of course, we were in awe. But after that first trip, every subsequent trip, my family had to hear me with the same comments as we’re driving through Navajo Reservation, and from Colorado down to the Grand Canyon, year after year, saying the Grand Canyon ain’t nothing. The Grand Canyon isn’t nothing. Because look, as we’re driving for hours, we see far to the north, this massive cliff range, far to the south, an identical range of cliffs, and everything in the middle, it appears to be thousands of square miles of sediment, is just gone. It’s all gone. It’s not here anymore. What happened to it all? The Grand Canyon is just one piece of it.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right. And you’re probably talking about Mesa’s, Butte’s, and Spire’s and cliff systems. The Mesa’s, Butte’s, and Spire’s, the most famous region in the world where you see those is called Monument Valley. If you’ve ever gone to a cowboy movie, you’ve probably seen a lot of scenery from the Mesa, Butte, and Spire region of Monument Valley. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
We stayed in Monument Valley last summer with our kids.
SPEAKER 01 :
And by the way, that region was in Grand Lake. And there’s a reason why… Mesa, Butte, and Spires are concentrated in the basin of Grand Lake. You see, as the lake empties, it would take about three weeks for it to empty, almost all of it to empty. Beneath Grand Lake today is 1,400 feet of sandstone. So after the flood, that sand was water-saturated sand. It would have held roughly 20% of its volume probably would have been water. Because the sand grains are roughly round in shape, and there’s lots of space in between the adjacent grains to hold that water. So once the lake dumps, gets expelled, what’s going to happen to the water below the floor of Grand Lake?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, if there’s any place for it to run to, it’s going to seep out of the groundwater.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s going to come up. Because before the lake emptied, there was this water pressing down on it. Now the lake water is gone, so that water has got to come up.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right, I see.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s still under high pressure under there.
SPEAKER 03 :
I see.
SPEAKER 01 :
So as the water is coming up, and it will come up fairly easily because the sand grains have a lot of pore space in between them.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right.
SPEAKER 01 :
So it’s coming up, and carrying with it, it’s coming up through the easiest routes up, which would be the lowest portions of the lakes. The highest portions of the lakes would be islands and mounds and basin lakes. they’re going to resist that upward flow because there’s more material intervening. So the lower portions of the lakes are going to get the most water coming up vertically through them, and they’re going to carry with it a lot of this sand and debris out. And so the deepest portions of the lake are going to be excavated more, and the highest portions, the islands, are not going to be excavated at all.
SPEAKER 03 :
So you’re describing how the buttes and spires form.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s right. What an island is going to become, the slopes of that island down to the bottom of the lake are going to get steeper and steeper because the water is coming up vertically, steepening the sides of those islands, and they become buttes and mesas and spires.
SPEAKER 03 :
So now could we go to where the water pours out of Grand Lake and it forms basically a canyon system, First Marble Canyon, which is very different from the Grand Canyon. And then the Grand Canyon.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. As Grand Lake is spilling to the south, it is eroding, taking with it an awful lot of dirt with it. These are called mesozoic sediment. And removing that causes the land underneath to rise a little bit. It’s like if you had a spring scale.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right.
SPEAKER 01 :
Or let’s put bricks on a mattress. And you lift up some of the bricks in the center of the mattress… the mattress is going to bulge up a little bit.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right, and it forms like a funnel shape. As Grand Lake was breached, that water rushing out, it widened sort of like a funnel. And so that whole area of the funnel heading toward the Grand Canyon, all the surface material eroded away rapidly.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s right. And if you pull out a map of the state of Arizona and look for Page, Arizona, you’ll see that about 20 miles to the southwest is that funnel region. And you can easily spot it on a map because Highway 89A has to go in a hairpin curve to negotiate that funnel. And it’s very prominent.
SPEAKER 03 :
The ground underneath where all that was eroded away started to lift up, and then Marble Canyon formed in a way very different from the Grand Canyon. It literally cracked.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s right. As it’s rising because of the lifting off, eroding away of the overlying softer rock, it’s softer in that it’s crumbly. And it’s weakly cemented. The layer underneath it, which is called Kaibab limestone, very hard but very brittle, is arching up. And because it’s brittle, it’s cracking. And I have a photograph taken from an aircraft looking down at Marble Canyon at our website. When you look at it, you see it’s obvious. Marble Canyon began with a crack.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s a crack. It’s a stress crack.
SPEAKER 01 :
A tension crack.
SPEAKER 03 :
A tension crack, and then you could see other cracks that would form just the way you’d imagine if that kind of pressure was, that upward pressure was put on that stone.
SPEAKER 01 :
So not only is the water spilling over this 2,000-foot-high cliff, it’s now going into that crack. And the crack is growing down to where Hopi Lake is 30 miles to the south. And that water is undercutting the northwestern corner of Hopi Lake, and now Hopi Lake is spilling out. Hopi Lake is a little higher. The waterfall that’s coming out of there would be about 20 times higher than Niagara Falls is today. And the volume flow rate coming out of Hopi Lake would be, for a period of just a few days or weeks, about 1,000 times greater than the volume flow rate coming over Niagara Falls.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right.
SPEAKER 01 :
So that water is now excavating to the west. And to make a long story short, carving the Grand Canyon, which is a little over 200 miles long.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, so when I’ve gone to the Grand Canyon, I heard the story when I was a kid that the Colorado River carved out the Grand Canyon. And so I go there and I look at it, and I see not only is the canyon there, the general shape of the canyon, but there are all these side canyons. massive side canyons that are as deep as the Grand Canyon that go nowhere.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s right. And they have no water to carve them.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. There’s no rivers forming in those massive side canyons. And so the question I had, until I’ve read your latest chapter on the Grand Canyon, which is at creationscience.com, until I read that chapter, I was frustrated because the creationists couldn’t explain how the Grand Canyon formed. Now I understand. that when these lakes, when they were breached and carved out this massive canyon, now the canyon was lower than the groundwater above it. And so the groundwater from after the flood began to rush out into that Grand Canyon. And that groundwater, which was massive flows, carved those side canyons.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s right. The canyon, the main trunk of the canyon was being cut far below the water table. It was releasing water on the flanks. So the Colorado River didn’t carve the Grand Canyon. The Colorado River is a consequence of this wall of water from these two giant lakes that spilled out and eroded that area. And now where does water flow today? It’s got to flow through the deepest part. That’s called the Colorado River.
SPEAKER 03 :
We see the same thing up at Mount St. Helens today. The canyons that are there, Engineers Canyon and others… They were not formed from the river coming out of Spirit Lake, but they were formed rapidly within hours and days, and that river was formed by the canyon.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right, right. Now, if the Colorado River formed the Grand Canyon, that’s what’s being taught in our schools, Bob.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s what’s being taught if you go into the museum up the Grand Canyon.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s bizarre.
SPEAKER 01 :
If the Colorado River carved it, wouldn’t you expect to find… About 800 cubic miles of sediments, and that’s what you’ve got to remove to form the Grand Canyon. 800 cubic miles of sediments in a huge, huge river delta where the Colorado River enters the Gulf of California.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 01 :
It ain’t there, Bob.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s not there. So the Grand Canyon sediments, where are they?
SPEAKER 01 :
They’re all over the flanks of the Colorado River, 1 to 200 miles east and west of the Colorado River as it flows from say Lake Mead, down to the Gulf of California. And you can see it when you’re driving east and west across the boundary between Arizona and California. Just slow down your car as you pass a stream bed or a creek bed that is cut down 1-200 feet and look at the rocks and the dirt that’s in the walls of that excavated creek. And you will find slightly rounded rocks some of them boulder size, and mixed with mud and clay. And that tells a big story. The fact that these large rocks were carried in a flow and rounded means the flow was quite violent and strong. And the fact that there’s this fine stuff mixed in with it means that the flow stopped very quickly and everything then settled down. So that’s where it is. 800 cubic miles must be eroded. to form the Grand Canyon, and to give you a feel for what 800 cubic miles is, if we take every river on the Earth today and calculate the volume of water in every river on the Earth combined, you’d only get 300 cubic miles.
SPEAKER 03 :
Whoa.
SPEAKER 01 :
Now, so 800 cubic miles is a lot, but it’s nothing compared to what had to have been swept off. The Kaibab Limestone that I mentioned, the top of the Grand Canyon, you had to sweep off at least 1,000 feet off of an area around the Grand Canyon that’s about 10,000 square miles.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s what I’m talking about when I say when we drive there, we look at all that strata that’s just gone.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
As you’re driving for hours before you get to the Grand Canyon, I point out to my kids, you could see strata and cliffs to the south of the highway and far to the north. We use binoculars. We look. And the strata match perfectly, so all that entire chunk of Arizona is gone.
SPEAKER 01 :
In between, the cliff has to be removed. Yes. And it has to be swept out someplace. And you’re not going to sweep it out with wind, because there are no sand dunes around there. It’s not going to be swept out with glaciers. Glacier activity is very easy to identify, and there haven’t been glaciers within 500 miles of the Grand Canyon. Water swept it out, and it had to be violent. and it had to be fast, and it had to be a sheet of water.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. Now, the side canyons, when you explain the formation of the side canyons, that the Grand Canyon was carved out, and now the water in the water table had somewhere to go. And so it flowed with tremendous force, tremendous amount of water in that sandstone, and it basically became a drainage ditch. It formed the side canyons. Now, there are two other terms the audience, I don’t think, may recognize, slot canyons and barbed canyons. Could you describe those?
SPEAKER 01 :
Slot canyons are very pretty. I think everybody’s probably seen the beautiful photographs of them. These are canyons that are very narrow but very deep. The width of the canyon is small compared to the depth.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right.
SPEAKER 01 :
And there will be lots of cracks in this material after the flood waters drain. There are going to be cracks there and and those cracks are going to be slowly expanded by water seeping out. The cracks will be roughly vertical, and so you’re going to get slot canyons forming as the water drains out. Barb canyons are much more interesting. Not as pretty, necessarily, but far, far more interesting. Tributaries to rivers enter the river at angles less than 90 degrees.
SPEAKER 03 :
In other words, acute angles. If you have a river and a tributary enters it, well, basically, they’re both flowing downhill. So they’re going to enter at an acute angle, a small angle.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right, a small angle. But around Marble Canyon, these huge side canyons called Barb Canyons are entering at larger than 90-degree angles, called impuce angles. And they look like barbed wire when you look at them from a map. In other words, they’re sticking out from the main Marble Canyon, and Marble Canyon is leading into Grand Canyon, by the way, And they’re sticking out, but they’re backwards. The flow that cut them is going in roughly the opposite direction as the Colorado River is flowing today.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right.
SPEAKER 01 :
The direction of the flow of the Barb Canyons is to the north, Colorado River is to the south. How can that be?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, how can that be? That is so fascinating.
SPEAKER 01 :
And geologists don’t like to talk about it much. The only explanation I’ve ever seen them put forth to it is absolutely ridiculous. And they should be embarrassed.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right.
SPEAKER 01 :
You see, as the Grand Canyon is being swept, those 800 cubic miles are being removed from it. And far more, about 2,000 cubic miles, that had to be removed first before the Grand Canyon is carved. The sheet of water that was sweeping over it. That’s going to cause the land below the Grand Canyon to rise. Just for the same reason we took bricks off the mattress. The mattress is going to rise underneath them. So as the region of the Grand Canyon is rising… it’s tipping the layers to the north about a degree, one degree. And that’s causing subsurface water to drain out to the north. And where is a lot of that water going to drain into? It’s going to drain into the crack that formed Marble Canyon. And so as those drainage paths, subsurface drainage paths, are spilling out Marble Canyon, they’re carrying material with it, and you’re forming a valley due to all the material underneath that’s being removed. You’ve heard of sinkholes. That’s where water drains from a spot, forms a depression, a little dimple on the surface of the earth. Well, these are long valleys that are lots of dimples.
SPEAKER 03 :
And if someone in the audience is having a hard time picturing this, you could read it. You could see the photographs, the maps, at creationscience.com in the chapter on the Grand Canyon. You link to it right from the homepage.
SPEAKER 01 :
www.creationscience, that’s one word, creationscience.com. Okay, now… I’ll take you there, and the table of contents is on the left-hand side of the page. Go down and find the origin of the Grand Canyon.
SPEAKER 03 :
We’re almost out of time. Last thing, the Petrified Forest. That ties into the formation of the Grand Canyon.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, because Petrified National Forest is right in the basin of Hopi Lake. And a couple of other smaller petrified forests are in the basin of Grand Lake. Why would petrified wood… Why would it be in Lake Basin? Well… Those lakes that are left over from the flood are rich in silica. I’ll have to skip over why, but they’re rich in silica. They’re warm. Water that came out from deep under the earth is warm. Logs floating in that lake, and there’d be lots of pre-flood forests that have been ripped up and are still floating on the surface of these floodwaters and now floating on the surface of lakes. Those logs are going to be saturated with this silica-rich water. As the water cools off, The silica in solution must come out of solution. It’ll precipitate out. Where will it precipitate to? It’ll precipitate into the porous spaces in the cells forming petrified wood.
SPEAKER 03 :
So there are a number of features actually around the Grand Canyon that were never before associated with it. They just form such a beautiful picture once you understand how the Grand Canyon was formed. Dr. Walt Brown, thank you again for a fascinating show. And if you would, we’d like to do a final program tomorrow.
SPEAKER 01 :
Okay, I’ll be here.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, thank you so very much. You could read Dr. Brown’s book, In the Beginning, Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood, at his website. It’s all there for free, creationscience.com. It’s fascinating. For years, we’ve been selling his book right here at Bob and Yert Live. You can get it on our website, kgov.com. Just click on the store under literature. You can read all about the book, see the book there. It’s just great. Or you could call us, At 800-836-9278. That’s 1-800-8-ENYART. 1-800-836-9278. If you order this week, we will send you an autographed copy of Walt Brown’s book. And boy, is it great. It is the best creation book I’ve ever read. And I’ve been a creationist since 1973. So that’s 33 years of reading creation evolution books and books on the global flood. And it is absolutely thrilling. Plus, God has used it to bring many people to the Lord, especially people interested in science. So not only can you get this book in the beginning from us, but at Bob and Yert Live, we offer a science pack. It’s the BEL Science Pack, five fabulous resources, including a debate on the age of the earth, the fabulous video, Unlocking the Mystery.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right, it’s Dominic Enyar again in studio. The more and more I have learned about the hydroplate theory, the more I am convinced that it’s true and that we should be sharing it with unbelievers as evidence for the Bible. By the way, we’ve been playing episodes from Walt Brown Week, which originally aired here on KLTT Radio and kgov.com and rsr.org back in 2007. 2007. And since then, the amount of evidence for the hydroplate theory, it just keeps piling up. Like recently, right with the hydroplate theory, one of the things it teaches is that there was subterranean waters and the pressure, it built up and eventually it cracked through the crust and and shot out the water, and that’s what later came down and rained. And the Bible, when it says the fountains of the great deep burst forth, that’s what it’s talking about. Now, in the hydroplate theory, you have this. And when the fountains of the great deep burst they shoot debris at such high velocity that it enters outer space, right? And that’s a pretty intense explosion there. Well, they recently, and Walt Brown, he says that this debris became asteroids, and that’s where our asteroids are from. And what’s incredible is just this past year, 2024, NASA said, landed a satellite on a comet on an asteroid, Bennu, and then grabbed some rock from Bennu and brought it back to Earth. And what they found was remarkable. They said that this asteroid, it contained material that is only found where the mantle meets the crust in the mid-oceanic ridge, just as Walt Brown would predict. That material there would be found in outer space. And that’s exactly what they found. They find so much evidence for Walt Brown’s hydroplate theory. It really is shocking evidence that having a good understanding of the Bible allows you to make extremely accurate scientific predictions. It’s really cool. Hey, may God bless you guys. I’ll catch you later.
The Hydroplate Theory offers a unified explanation for various geological phenomena, and this episode uncovers its secrets. Discover how the breaching of ancient lakes led to the rapid formation of iconic features such as the Grand Canyon. Our hosts navigate through the complexities of this theory, demonstrating how a better understanding of biblical events can lead to accurate scientific predictions. With insights into modern-day findings supporting this theory, this episode is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by geological wonders.
