In this enlightening episode of Real Science Radio, we dive deep into the fascinating world of cancer research and the groundbreaking advancements in immunotherapy. Hosts Fred Williams and Doug McBurney explore the potential of the human immune system, designed by God, to fight and cure cancer. They discuss a remarkable clinical trial involving a local injection that triggers a whole-body immune response, leading to a significant reduction in tumors and even complete disappearance in some patients. Despite the small trial size, the success rate demonstrates a promising future for targeted cancer treatments, highlighting the intricate design of our immune
They injected it locally in one tumor and tumors all over the body disappeared.
SPEAKER 03 :
Scholars can’t explain it all away.
SPEAKER 1 :
Get ready to be awed by the handiwork of God. Tune into Real Science Radio.
SPEAKER 03 :
Turn up the Real Science Radio. Keeping it real.
SPEAKER 04 :
Greetings to the brightest audience in the country. This is Real Science Radio, and I’m Fred Williams.
SPEAKER 02 :
And I’m Doug McBurney. Fred, today we have a really interesting update from the world of cancer research. So if you’re interested in cancer research, who isn’t interested in cancer research? Everybody’s interested in it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 04 :
And this one is really cool because there’s some history with this with our show. That’s right. Bob Inyart was a big fan of this whole immunology. Say that five times really fast.
SPEAKER 02 :
Immunology and immunotherapy and immunomodulation, all the manipulation of our immune system in order to protect us against disease and defect and to heal and cure as well.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. And it’s a remarkable design system. And, you know, Bob and I used to talk about how, who knows how many years the scientific community missed using this as a treatment for cancer. And I think it’s been the last couple of decades they realized, hey, this is a pretty powerful design in the body. The most, the best engineered system in the world by far, by leaps and bounds in the immune system. is constantly fighting disease, including cancer. Our immune system kills potential cancer cells all the time.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, yes. People wear the pin or the T-shirt that I survived cancer. And one of the things I use in my work, I tell people, Everyone in this room is a cancer survivor. We’ve all survived cancer probably hundreds, if not thousands of times, maybe even millions of times when you take into account how many cells there are in your body and how often they reproduce and divide. And we all have survived mutations that would have, could have, should have led to cancer. Probably, well, we’ll find out in heaven. I’m going to ask God for the spreadsheet from my body. How many times did my immune system defeat cancer? And I can assure you, God’s going to be pretty proud. He’s going to be, check this out. You’re not going to believe how many times you survived, not just cancer. Let’s go through everything that your body was under assault from all the time that our immune system defends us against. And this reminds me of an interview that was really a watershed moment in my life in understanding science, was listening to Bob Enyart interview Kevin Anderson about 10 years ago. And Kevin Anderson said, The immune system, the human immune system cannot be defeated if it works properly and can engage all of its tools.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. And this is after, and, you know, we can have any medical experts confirm if I’m wrong about this, but this is after the quality control system that makes sure, you know, that everything divides properly, you know, when cells are dividing, et cetera. There’s a massive and complex quality control system. Yeah. If that fails… Then you can get mutations, whatnot. And then there’s an immune system to fight these things that are growing, these cancerous cells get into a state and the immune system can fight them. So we’ve started realizing, I think over the last couple of decades, we can use the body’s immune system to start fighting cancer. And so there’s this brand new clinical trial. And it really caught our attention because they’re actually using a local injection that triggers a whole body anti-cancer immune response. Yeah. And from this, there was a small phase one trial. And they injected a new form of what’s called CD40 against antibodies directly into a single tumor. And in half of the 12 patients, the tumor shrank. And here’s the amazing thing, Doug. In two of the patients, the cancer completely disappeared.
SPEAKER 02 :
And they injected it locally in one tumor. And tumors all over the body disappeared.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, including cancers in the liver. You know, you hear liver cancer, it’s like, well, you’re done. Yeah. And, you know, lung cancer is always, you know, way high up on the list of, oh, that’s not a good one to have.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right.
SPEAKER 04 :
And they were just gone in two of these patients.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm. So including cancers in the liver, lung, skin. These were patients with advanced cancers. And like I say, melanoma, kidney cancer, breast cancer, some really tough cancers. How did it work, Fred?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, this is how it works. And I did want to say before everyone gets too excited, and this is exciting stuff, there’s still only, I think, like a 30% success rate. But 30% is a lot better than 0% to 1% when you’ve got like these serious cancers.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, yes, and this is a small trial. I mean, 12 patients doesn’t even qualify for statistically significant anything, but these are early phase one trials that we hope could lead to much bigger results.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, so how this works is, and we’ll try to break it down simply. So inside your body right now, your immune system is constantly hunting and destroying early stage cancer cells, as we mentioned earlier. And God designed our immune system with like this special surveillance system. And some of these tumors, they learn to cloak themselves. They do. So they create what the researchers in this article called an immune-exhausted environment. Wow. The T-cells are there, but they’ve chemically been lulled to sleep. By the way, the interesting fact of the week, Doug, is going to be about immune systems. Oh, no.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, well, I should be fairly well prepared thanks to Kevin Anderson. We’ll see.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, so this new drug, it’s called 2141-V11, sends a wake-up signal through a receptor on immune cells called CD40. It’s like someone blowing a trumpet in the camp.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, I like that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wake up and let’s get going.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, yes. Like marching around Jericho.
SPEAKER 04 :
I was just going to say, yeah. Very cool.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, so the researchers expected a local response only. They were injecting the agonist antibodies locally in a tumor, but what they got was what they called a systemic immune awakening. Tumors that weren’t injected, they also shrank, and they disappeared because the immune system remembered what the cancer looked like and then began attacking it elsewhere in the body, everywhere in the body, And how can you say the immune system remembered? How can a scientist say that? Well, because there’s no other way to say it. And it’s almost like the immune system has a personality and a mind, because the immune system was designed by a person with a mind.
SPEAKER 04 :
creator and anyway it’s all very amazing and what’s really cool is the immune system has like this stochastic or kind of a random approach random quote quote to find all these combinations to find what it can latch on and then it remembers that once it it finds it and so with the fall of from the creation we deteriorate as we get older we’re all under the curse the curse and so ground yeah yeah and so this is a way to kind of Our immune system is fading as we get older, but this is kind of a way to wake it up in certain spots. And it seems to be having a real positive effect. Again, this isn’t on all the patients, but the fact that you’ve got two that were completely… pretty much right now, completely cured, and they had advanced stages of cancer. It really is, there’s a lot of positive coming out of this whole immunology science.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, and now, so these CD40s, they’ve been under investigation for a couple of decades, but in the past, there’s been serious side effects. rampant inflammation. You know, I remember Kevin Anderson when Bob interviewed him, I believe in 2016. You can find it at kgov.com. Search Kevin Anderson around 2016. He said that the immune system can’t be defeated if it’s working properly and can engage all of its tools. But one of the problems was if the immune system engages all of its tools, it will kill you because it’s that powerful. So the immune system actually has to has to put the brakes on or it will release too much of an immune response. The inflammatory event can be too large and can actually cause harm.
SPEAKER 04 :
And so that was one of the side effects. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, maybe all of us know somebody who has an autoimmune disease. And so there is this case where the body can fight too hard because, again, we’re part of a fallen creation and not everything works exactly as it used to because we’re all slated. We’re all going to die. Doug, I’m going to be dead someday.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
So are you and everybody else listening. That’s true. But, and I know I’m going on a side tangent, but death is actually a blessing because without it, we’d be in hell forever, right? Yes. We’ve got a way to pay the price. Our penalty is death, but he paid the price himself. So at some point, I’m going to have a perfect body, Doug.
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s right. Yeah, yeah. Well, if you believe the Bible, and you should because it’s true. The Bible says that if you believe God and trust Him, He’s going to give us a brand new, perfectly functioning, heavenly body that’s going to operate. Well, it’ll operate here on the earth, but it’ll also operate in heavenly places. And that’s going to be really cool. And Fred, that actually reminds me, I have to say this. We lost a real great friend of Real Science Radio just within the past couple of months, Gordon Carroll, great supporter of Bobbiny Art Live and Denver Bible Church, an elder there, and just a… A guy who helped me early on when I had a hard time with praying. How do I pray? I didn’t know how to pray. You know, the Bible says we don’t even know how to pray and that the Spirit has to intercede for us. But Gordon Carroll said to me, he said, you know, Doug, do you believe God is real? And I said, yeah, I do. He said, well, then just talk to him. He said, well, you’re driving, while you’re working, whatever you’re doing, if you think about a question that you don’t know about or you’d like to know an answer to, Just bring it up with God and ask Him about it and talk with Him. Just talk to God. And so anyway, I started doing that in my life. And anyway, Fred, the more people I know who die and go to heaven, Gordon Carroll died and went to heaven, Bob Enyart died and went to heaven, and then my dad died and went to heaven. All this has happened in the past, recent past. It’s really focused my attention on the fact that We’re going to spend most of our life in heaven, not here. Most, yeah. Not just most, but, I mean, eventually it’s going to be such a dramatically more… But obviously, this is an important preparation ground. We’re being prepared for the next life. And one of the things that I’m convinced prepares us for the next life is investigating God’s creation and how He made all this work, understanding how it fell and why it fell. And then, of course, that brings you to… confronting your own sin and confessing to God that you’re a sinner and asking for His forgiveness and having a relationship with Him. But it’s all a part of preparing. And studying the immune system is a great way to prepare for the next life and hopefully to point other people to the fact that that’s where we’re all headed.
SPEAKER 04 :
The Bible verse that’s on my saltwater aquarium right now is God’s wonderful works were made to be remembered. Amen. So we’re remembering them right now, and they’re going to be remembered for all eternity. Doug, before I get to this next story, which is about 6 million-year-old ice in the Antarctic. So they found 6 million-year-old ice near the surface of a glacier.
SPEAKER 02 :
6 million years old. 6 million years old. I’m interested to hear about that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, but before we do, when we were talking before the start of the show offline, you had mentioned, so this science article we just talked about, about the immune systems, this new clinical trial that’s showing a lot of promise, is from the Epoch Times. Did I say that right?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, it depends. If you’re from Philadelphia, I think Epoch is the way, but if you’re from Texas, it’s Epic.
SPEAKER 04 :
Epic? Well, I’m from Colorado. But then I lived in Missouri, and I got a little bit of a slang for a while. So it’s epic? I don’t know. You don’t know?
SPEAKER 02 :
It can’t be epic. It’s spelled Epoch, E-P-O-C-H. Epic would be with an I, but it can be pronounced epic depending on where you’re from. It could be Epoch. It could be Epoch. It’s E-P-O-C-H. This reminds me, Fred, so my wife is Japanese. English is not her first language. And we go through this with words. Like epic would be a word that she would be like, well, what’s the difference between epic and epic? And I’m trying to explain to her there is a difference between epic, like a long story, an epic, and an epic, which is a long period of time. And she would say, you people have too many words. And they all sound too close to the same.
SPEAKER 04 :
Japan, do they use pictographs or is that just Chinese?
SPEAKER 02 :
No, they use a lot of the Chinese kanji in their writing. Oh, that’s interesting. Yes, and then Hidagana and Katakana. But yeah, it’s all the pictogram-based language. But anyway, we have a lot of words, and English is very difficult. So an epic is a fantastic example of that. And I think you’ve pronounced it right, Fred. How did you pronounce it again? Epoch? Epoch. I think that’s a better way to let people know that you’re not saying epic. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
So the Epoch Times is the source of this article that ran the story on this.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, yes. And the Epoch Times is basically a news organization created by the Falun Gong dissidents who escaped China probably in the early 2000s. And they came to America. And if you’re not familiar with the Falun Gong, it’s a form of yoga-like meditation. They’re pagans, basically. And I wouldn’t call them harmless pagans because there’s no such thing as a harmless pagan in that if you follow paganism, you’re going to end up in hell forever. But they won’t molest your son or chop your daughter’s hands off. So they’re not like that kind of religious fanatic. Yeah. They meditate and they gather in the park and they go om and they do yoga. Yeah. And they terrified the Chinese government in the early 2000s because they developed quite a following. And China being an officially atheist culture and demanding that you worship the state… The Falun Gong were persecuted in prison. Some of their leaders were executed, put on trial and executed. Came to America and found friends in wealthy conservatives who just believed in freedom of religion. And have also, a number of them have become quite successful and gone into media and have created this newspaper, the Epoch Times. So if you weren’t familiar with the backstory of… Yeah, and I wasn’t.
SPEAKER 04 :
I thought that’s interesting because I’ve seen plenty of stories from the Epoch Times. Epoch Times? Yes. So, wow. Now, does that mean they’re not credible? No. I mean, CNN, they don’t have a bias, right?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, so you think who’s underwriting the Epoch Times? Well, it’s Falun Gong dissidents who escaped China. Well, who’s underwriting CNN and MSNBC and ABC News and CBS? Yep, exactly. I probably would trust some yoga dissidents who have a bias against China. You will notice there is a fairly strong anti-China bias in the Epoch Times, which I’m pretty anti-China biased. I don’t like communist criminal gangs that conquer China. and enslave billions of people. So I’m all for that. But yeah, that’s the backstory on the Epoch Times. And they do some really good quality reporting, and they’re relatively conservative for a bunch of pagans, I guess. Okay. Anyway, I found that interesting. I think they have a number of Christians on staff, by the way. So they’re They won’t only hire Falun Gong practitioners.
SPEAKER 04 :
There you go. Okay, so the next story is from Science Daily, and this is just from a couple of weeks ago. So November 5th, 2025. Okay. Frozen for six million years, Antarctic ice rewrites Earth’s climate history. Oh, boy. Boy, another rewriting. Okay. Another rewriting and something to do with climate, climate change, all that good stuff.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, yes, yes. So they claim they’ve got the six-million-year-old ice in Antarctica, and it’s not snow. It’s not compressed snow. It’s ice. Frozen for six million years near the surface.
SPEAKER 04 :
Near the surface. Okay. Okay. So let me get this right. So you’ve got this rare, highly advanced ancient ice. It’s got to be highly advanced because it’s ice that does not melt, doesn’t flow, doesn’t compress, doesn’t crack, doesn’t sublimate, you know, solid to gas directly. Unlike Doug. Every other ice in the whole planet.
SPEAKER 02 :
I was going to say, ice seems to me like… I don’t know how long ice can last. I know there are some glaciers and some icebergs that are probably pretty old, but it just doesn’t… Six million years seems to be a bit of a stretch.
SPEAKER 04 :
Near the surface. I think they said somewhere between five and… I don’t know why they don’t know exactly. The article maybe doesn’t have the detail from the study, but between one and 200 meters. So basically between a… A yard and two football fields.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, down from the surface. Okay. All right. So they say in the article, Antarctica is the perfect place for ice to remain undisturbed for millions of years because, are you ready? Okay. Because the wind blows the snow away. Okay. Okay, wait a minute. That’s from the article. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s how the ice remained. It just said that the wind blows the snow away. So that sounds like to me, and by the way, the source of this is Oregon State University.
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, boy.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, so that helps explain some of this where we’re going. Oregon ducks. Okay. So erosion, the ice was protected basically from something that causes erosion. High erosion?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, because snow laying on the ice and then the wind blows the snow, there would be some friction and that eventually would have some impact on the ice, I would think. I thought wind blowing was part of the whole erosion process.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. But in this case, the ice is protected from erosion by erosion.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
You cannot make this stuff up. Okay, so then how did they date it at 6 million years? It wasn’t through ice cores, you know, where they count the layers of ice. They used the argon dating method.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, argon. Measuring argon gas to what? That’s trapped inside the ice?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, so an argon dating method. And so… Remember, though, Doug, that ice is not some perfectly closed system. Gas migrates, it diffuses, and it escapes. Well, of course, except in this ice for six million years. I actually asked AI a question on this. I asked AI this. I said, so I was wondering how well documented is it that gases migrate, diffuse, and escape out of ice? Because I know that it does.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, that’s something that seems intuitive that I would assume because I’ve worked with ice and it’s relatively unstable. I would think it’s not going to trap too many gases for too long, but that’s just an assumption. And this is, by the way, Fred, this is one of the things that AI is really valuable for. Yeah. Because you can confirm things that, you know, because we have assumptions that are wrong. I’ve had a number of them. But you can check yourself with AI because it can go and research all the known.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, it finds everything in a lot of different tons of places. So I want to know how well documented is it. So in the past, you could do a Google search and get a bunch of articles and then have to read through them. Right. This one kind of goes everywhere and then gives you, you know, a more concise summary. Yeah. And I’m going to skip to the summary, and it says this, that migration and escape of gases from ice is not speculative. It’s one of the most measured and modeled processes in glaciology. I like what it says here. What is speculative is assuming it happens slowly and predictably over millions of years. And rapid climate shifts can break the model. And so… Of course. That brings us to… I wanted to… The first thing I thought of is the hydroplate theory. So we just had Kevin Leon. I’d recommend people go back and watch those shows because there was a hit piece in the CRSQ that was just pretty much a disaster. And if you think that that article… Does any damage to the hydroplate theory? I encourage you to watch our show and find out all the enormous problems with that. So anyways, you know, back to the hydroplate theory. So we’re going to get to, you know, how does the hydroplate theory explain this? This ice that they, you know, the six million year old ice. So just as a kind of a really quick recap of the hydroplate theory. So when the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and that’s documented in the Bible, it talks about the fountains of the great deep bursting forth, right? And we have this mid-oceanic ridge, by the way, a crack around the globe. In one day, it says. Yeah, in one day. So large volumes of supercritical water were released. The oceans heated. There was a post-flood atmosphere that was warm. Evaporation was high, and snow and ice built up rapidly. So remember that there’s a thing called the Great Roll. The Great Roll. This is where the Earth rolled.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, yeah. It was like 35 degrees roughly. After the hydroplates slid and stopped, the Earth was now unbalanced. And so a lot of the Earth that was closer to the equator and more… Tropical? Ended up rolling up, and now it’s up in Siberia. And that’s a real interesting theory that there’s a good bit of physical evidence that that occurred. Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER 04 :
And we recommend you get, you know. By the way. Walt Brown, now he passed away recently. We’ve had a show on that. He’s another guy who went to heaven. He’s in heaven right now.
SPEAKER 02 :
Reminding me.
SPEAKER 04 :
And we get to watch a video of the actual flood event. I don’t know if, you know. God has old VCR tapes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, you know, God’s been running tape on the whole thing.
SPEAKER 04 :
Would they be old camera reels? Would it have been pictures of the event with the cameras that would poof smoke up when you took a picture? Listen to this.
SPEAKER 02 :
Forget AI. Imagine this. This is just something I’ve pondered once in a while. But imagine you’re the creator of all things. You’re the possessor of heaven and earth, and you decide that you want to… record every event that ever happens from multiple angles all the time. And then, so you fill the earth with birds and bugs and creeping things and animals and humans. And then you have the ability to collect all the data that all of them collected. And it’s like on a hard drive somewhere and you’ve got every bit of Visual, audio, data from everything that ever happened. Just trust me. God’s running videotape on the whole thing from multiple angles. That’s why these liberals need to deal with their sin because you’re not going to be able to hide your sin from God. Like the bugs were watching you. Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
And they captured all of it. And it occurred to me while you were saying all this that the creepy, creeping things. Creeping. That’s where the word creepy comes from because those things are creepy. Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right, now, back to this ice, Fred. So now… Yeah. Hey, if we do another show updating some of the headlines, I have some headlines on some creeping things that’ll probably creep you out. That’s easy for a future show. We may or may not get to that. But back to this ice that we doubt it’s six million years old. Because the Bible strongly implies that the created earth that we live in right now, the biosphere we live in right now, was created roughly 6,000 years ago in six literal days. That’s what the Bible says, so that’s what I believe, and the evidence is pretty strong for that. But this ice, Fred, this ice may have been around for quite some time. Even though ice is relatively unstable, the Earth is a big place, and this ice is really, really thick, so it’d take quite a long time for this ice to… Well, I think it’s really, really old.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think 6,000 years, that’s really old.
SPEAKER 02 :
6,000 years, really, really old, right?
SPEAKER 04 :
Actually, 4,000.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, yeah, 4,000. But, you know… Yeah, roughly 4,000, but, you know, things that are 2,000 years old, we call them ancient, right? Yeah. So even, you know, 2,000 years. So this ice, there’s a goodly portion of this ice could have been sitting on the earth now for several thousands of years, which is pretty impressive.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. So when we look at the viewpoint from the hydroplate theory, I wanted to mention, so there’s, when you look at the different phases, so you had before the flood, the earth had this granite upper crust. And hydroplates, if you will, and over a subterranean chamber of water, which was under pressure. And this is all, you can find references to this in the Bible. Yes. Talking about water stored for judgment, et cetera. And so there’s several phases that were proposed. You have the rupture phase. Again, this bursting out, fountains of the great deep, breaking up along the mid-oceanic ridge all in one day. There is this continental drift phase, which is really the hydroplate sliding. There is a compression event. So they slide, compress, boom, mountains. And then there’s a recovery phase, a settling phase. And so as the plate settled, the recovery phase includes these adjustments. And we just talked about like the great role, uplift, sinking, et cetera. And so there was this role that was proposed by Dr. Walt Brown, who we think was a Sir Isaac Newton of this era, of about a 35 to 45 degree roll. And this role explains a lot of things with the high latitude warm climate fossils, for example.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, what else do we find? We find dinosaur fossils in Antarctica. You know, the frozen mammoth is really well documented in his book. Oh, yeah. Temperate forests in the Arctic, coal seams near the North Pole, etc., And so the modern interpretation is, you know, well, the earth has been exactly as it is today. Things progress like they’ve been the same in the past, just like it says in, I think, 2 Peter 4. I have to look that up.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right, that the fools say that all things have gone on as they’ve always been since the fathers… Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I’m going by it, failing and faltering memory because of the fall. And I think it’s either 1 Peter 4 or 2 Peter 4.
SPEAKER 02 :
Just don’t know. It’s 1 Peter. Read the whole book. You’ll find it. There you go. Okay. Don’t give them chapter and verse. Make them work for it.
SPEAKER 01 :
Stop the tape, stop the tape. Hey, this is Dominic Enyart. We are out of time for today. If you want to hear the rest of this program, go to rsr.org. That’s Real Science Radio, rsr.org.
SPEAKER 03 :
Scholars can’t explain it all away.
SPEAKER 1 :
Get ready to be awed by the handiwork of God. Tune into Real Science Radio. Turn up the Real Science Radio. Keeping it real. That’s what I’m talking about.
