In this engaging episode, listeners are guided through complex spiritual topics, such as the role of baptism and its relation to circumcision. Steve offers clarity on often-misunderstood doctrines, distinguishing between tradition and scriptural foundations. Also, as listeners express their desire to embrace their calling, whether as a preacher or a lay believer, Steve provides a roadmap guided by faith and scriptural principles. From the Book of John to the significance of the Eucharist, each segment of the discussion provides a fresh perspective on living a faith-filled life.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Good afternoon, and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon, taking your calls. If you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith, that’s what we talk about here. If you call in with those, if you have a difference of opinion from the host, you’re always welcome also to call in about that. We’ll be glad to talk to you. The number is 844-484-5737. Again, that number is 844-484-5737. And just for those of you in Arizona, know that I’m coming to speak in, what, about five locations, five towns in the Phoenix area, and not so close, too. I’ll be in Tucson this Thursday. I’ll be in Maricopa this Friday. I’ll be in Peoria and Buckeye. on Saturday, and I will be in Scottsdale on Sunday. So if you’re in those areas and would like to find out more about those meetings, you can go to our website, thenarrowpath.com, and look at announcements, and you’ll see where and when these meetings are taking place in Arizona this weekend, actually beginning Thursday and through Sunday. All right. We’re going to go to the phones now and talk to Donnie in Detroit, Michigan. Hi, Donnie. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thanks for coming. I’ve been around there for a long time, but I’ve been absent. I’m already somebody. Hey, you know what?
SPEAKER 05 :
I need you to get off your speakerphone. Your speakerphone is making too much of an echo.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, I’m sorry. Yes, sir.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, sir. It’s very echoey.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, yes, sir. I hope they get me off of that without hanging up. Okay, get off my speakerphone. Okay, I’m sorry. Okay, go ahead. But I’ve been here with you for a while, and I talk to people about you and everything in your spiritual knowledge. But my question is life. I want to let them know and let them hear what I’m saying. I know life, and it has a fleshly one, and it has a spiritual one. And the spiritual likes to see the fleshly life, but he that believeth on the Lord shall never die. I don’t believe in death. I know the flesh will go to the dust.
SPEAKER 05 :
So are you saying you don’t believe in physical death, or you believe that even when people physically die…
SPEAKER 04 :
No, I say I believe in physical death because flesh and blood will not enter his kingdom. So what is your… It is the resurrection and the dead in Christ shall rise. We don’t even know how sometimes to teach death. Death is not a permanent place. It has a resurrection such as Jesus died.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, I hear you. And I always teach that same thing. Do you have a question for me?
SPEAKER 04 :
I have a question.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. What is death? Well, it depends on which passage we’re looking at. Death can mean, well, it usually means the cessation of life or the absence of life. Now, as you pointed out, I think there is physical life and there’s spiritual life, and there’s also corresponding physical death and spiritual death. And then there’s also a metaphorical sense in which death is referred to. For example, in Jewish society, in the Bible, if somebody was alienated from their family or ashamed of their family, the family might say, you’re dead to me. Now, that doesn’t mean they’re spiritually dead. It doesn’t mean they’re physically dead. It means that they are relationally dead to them. And like the prodigal son, when he came home, his father said, my son was dead. Of course, he wasn’t saying the son was spiritually dead or physically dead. He was dead to his father in the sense of alienated. Sometimes the expression dead is used in the Bible to speak of somebody who’s doomed to die, even though they’re not dead yet. They’re almost dead. They’re as good as dead. You know, that they’re about to die and there’s no escaping it. And we would say that, too, if, you know, if we were hurling in a car toward a cliff that was, you know, 100 feet high and our brakes were out and we know we’re going over the cliff, you might say to me, we’re dead. And you’d be right. I mean, in a sense, metaphorically, we’re almost dead. We’re doomed. We’re doomed. to die and that the scripture uses it that way too uh so there’s a lot of different things that death can mean it can mean something it can be used metaphorically not of real death but or of impending death but um but it also can speak of a state of being alienated from god which we i guess we’d say that’s spiritual death and obviously it can mean physical death so those are all Those are all different ways in which the word death is used.
SPEAKER 04 :
I’m trying to get information so they can hear what I’m saying to them, what I learned from you. Okay, well, I don’t know what to tell you. I’m not sure who you’re trying to get this from. What is death?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I just told you what death is. If you mean what happens to us when we die, there’s different opinions about that. I think maybe you’re trying to say that when we physically die, we’re dead in every sense until the resurrection. Because you were emphasizing the resurrection, and I do too, but I wouldn’t agree that we’re dead in every way until the resurrection. I’d say our bodies are dead when the Spirit leaves them. That’s what James said in James chapter 2. He said, the last verse in James 2 says, as the body without the Spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead. And when… When Elijah or Elisha spread over the boy to bring him back to life, it says his spirit came back to him. So, you know, it’s possible for the spirit to leave the body. In fact, Paul, although he wasn’t talking about death in this particular case, in 2 Corinthians 12, in the early verses of that, he talked about a man who was caught up into the third heaven. He said, I don’t know if he was in the body or out of the body. Only God knows that. So Paul actually believed, even apart from dying, because he wasn’t talking about a man dying, apart from dying, he said the body is separable from the man himself. He wasn’t sure if the man was in the body or out of his body. So the body would be his home. And Paul talks about us being, as long as we’re at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord in 2 Corinthians 5. So, you know, there’s such a thing as being at home in the body or absent from the body. And so, in my opinion, when we’re physically alive, it’s when our spirit is still in us. And when we’re physically dead, it’s when our spirit has departed from us to be with Christ, as it says in Philippians 1. So I consider that to be the case. And then, of course, when Jesus comes back, he’s going to raise the bodies, which means he’s going to bring the spirits back. Now, he said that if our spirits are absent from our body, they are present with the Lord. So he’ll come back and raise our bodies by inserting our spirits back in them and glorifying the bodies, making the bodies of a different nature. And so I agree with you about the resurrection. But I’m not sure if you are saying that, you know, prior to the resurrection, there’s no life in a dead person. Well, there’s no life in his body. That’s true. But there’s the life in that person. departs from the body and is somewhere else, apparently. Paul sits with the Lord. All right. Kay in Las Vegas, Nevada. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hi, Steve. It’s so good to talk to you again. Thank you so much for your wisdom and sharing it and your patience with us. I have two quick questions, if that’s okay?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m going to be starting a study of the Book of John and one of The people in the study got a video from you that you recommended. He said the video is great, so we can use that. But do you have a study guide as well that you would recommend?
SPEAKER 05 :
Now, the video that I recommended, is that the movie about the Gospel of John?
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, I didn’t ask him. I don’t know. He just said he got it from you. You recommended it, and it’s excellent.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I have recommended a video, which is a, you know how there’s these Jesus videos they make. There’s one made from the Gospel of Matthew, one is made from the Gospel of Luke. There’s one made from the Gospel of John, and it’s called the Gospel of John. And I think there’s two different ones made about the Gospel of John. The one I liked is the one that’s narrated by Christopher Plummer. And it’s not so much I’m a fan of his, but it’s just that’s a really good, that’s a very good video of the life, well, of the Gospel of John. So that’s probably what they’re referring to. Now, as far as my videos, I think we have videos of me teaching all the way through John. If we don’t have videos, we certainly have audios at the website. And there’s notes for the videos. That is the notes I used in teaching for some of the lectures, not all of them because I don’t always use notes. but at Matthew713.com. Yeah, I don’t have study guides per se, but we’ve got just about everything else. We’ve got the audio and the video of the lectures. We’ve got actually transcripts of the lectures, complete transcripts of the lectures, at OpenTheo.org. That’s OpenTheo, T-H-E-O, .org. There’s transcripts of all my lectures there, including John. And then any notes I use to teach from, which probably would just be the notes on the introduction, would be found at Matthew713.com. So we’ve got a lot of different ways to study it. And then I recommend that particular video because it uses only the text of Scripture. It doesn’t use a translation that I prefer. I think it uses the Good News Bible or something like that, but it’s better than nothing. And it’s a well-done one.
SPEAKER 08 :
Sounds awesome. Thank you for those options. My other question is about Genesis 3.15. Who do you understand the woman to be?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, the woman to whom it is spoken is obviously Eve. Right. And I believe that she probably is seen as the prototype of women in general when she is told that she will have pain and childbearing and things like that, which is, of course, pretty much the universal condition of women. But the woman and her child, in verse 15… Probably, well, some people think it’s Mary. Maybe that’s what you’re suggesting. But it says, I will put enmity between you and the woman. That is between Satan, the serpent, and the woman.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
And between her seed and your seed. And he shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel. I believe what it’s saying is, initially, the first point is that God makes… hostility between snakes and women. There may be some female herpetologists who love snakes, but most humans, and especially women, are not comfortable around snakes, and some are very afraid of them. Snakes also are generally afraid of humans. So there’s enmity between the woman and the snake, but more than that, the seed of the woman is and the seed of the serpent are mentioned. And the seed of the woman is said to crush the serpent’s head, and the serpent bruises the heel of the seed of the woman. Now, if it’s simply talking about generically human beings who are all the children of Eve… will crush heads on snakes and snakes will bite them. Well, that would be true, but the statement is not made specifically about all of the woman’s seed. It says, he shall crush your head, not the seed of the serpent, but the serpent himself, which is Satan. And so it seems to me like it’s talking specifically about a seed who will defeat Satan. Now, this is, I believe, what Christ has done. It says in Hebrews chapter 2 and verse 14 that Christ through death destroyed him who had the power of death. That is the devil. Hebrews 2.14. So Christ did that. In Romans 16. Paul told the church that God would crush Satan’s head under their feet shortly. Now, the church is, of course, the body of Christ, and therefore Christ crushing Satan is done, well, for one thing, at the cross, and maybe continually through the feet of his people, his body. So that’s, I mean, there’s some suggestion in the New Testament that this has to do with Christ’s victory over Satan. When it says that the seed of the woman will crush your, not the seed of the serpent, but the serpent himself will crush your head and you should bruise his heel. So this has always been seen kind of as an obscure reference to the coming of Christ who would defeat Satan. Now, here he’s simply referred to as the seed of the woman. And some people would say this is the only time that anyone is said to be the seed of a female because seed means the sperm. And, you know, someone could be the seed of Abraham or the seed of David or the seed of this person or that person, but always it’s a man. It’s always he’s the seed of his father. But here, it’s not said to be the seed of Adam, but the seed of Eve, which is unusual. And some think this is perhaps a cryptic reference to the virgin birth, that Jesus had a mother but not a father. And so he’s the only man who’s ever been the seed of a woman as opposed to the seed of a man. He’s also God’s seed. Later on, of course, in Scripture, Abraham is singled out that his Messiah would be his seed, Abraham’s seed, and later David’s seed, and so on. So the Messiah would come through the seed of the woman, then the seed of Abraham, narrowing it down to one family. then the seed of David narrowing it down to one family and Abraham’s family. And so this has typically been seen, I think, throughout church history as a reference to Christ defeating Satan at the cross. And I think that there’s some good reason for seeing it. The woman, though, initially, I think, is simply the generic example. eve and and her daughters you know and women in general but there’s a specific seed coming through the woman that is the messiah and then his mission i think is is specified more narrowly okay thank you so much steve i appreciate your detailed answer god bless you okay okay thank you good talking to you bye now uh kevin in river rouge michigan welcome to the narrow path
SPEAKER 03 :
Steve, I first want to thank you for your patience with everyone. And like I said, John Gaper gave me your CD series on psychology. I think it’s phenomenal. First, I want to congratulate you for 28 years of trusting God for the God’s ministries given you. I have a degree in chiropractic. I’ve been out of school for 30 some years. There is a, great discrepancy, not a discrepancy, but in my family, even those that profess Christ, I think God is calling me to do. I study, I listen to a lot of apologetics, including you, and read a lot. I have your book that John gave me on the risen son, the kingdom of the risen son, and I haven’t started yet, but I used to be a New Ager in that hippie movement, subsequent to the hippie movement, and was under the delusion that I could attain some similar perfection based on the Catholic teaching of infused righteousness. Now I realize, as a born-again Christian, coming to the end of myself with an action a few years ago, that the body is dead because of sin, Romans 8.10, and that in my weakness… I can glorify God in that. And I walk now. I’ve been hospitalized over the years. But I was wondering, I listened to R.C. this morning about Carl Sagan versus Cosmos and the unknowability of God versus Harvey Cox’s early 60s book on the secular city and your take on how the church right now has bought not just into New Age and psychology, but also the view of the here and now humanism that I see prevalent in today’s church. I’m going to hang up and listen.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, wait, I don’t know what your question is.
SPEAKER 03 :
I was just wondering what your take is on how people, you know, like Oskina said in his book, Fat Bodies, Fat Minds, we don’t dedicate our intellect to the Lord. We Leave it to the hired gun on Sunday to hear the word.
SPEAKER 05 :
Kevin, let me just ask you this. I haven’t read the books you’re talking about, so instead of asking my take on those books, could you give me a specific point you’d like my position on?
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m the one who talked to you about that friend in South Carolina who said that there’s no hell in all that the other day.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right, but what is your question for me? I’m asking you a question.
SPEAKER 03 :
My question is, how do you know you’re being called either to preach… or just to allow the Holy Spirit to live Christ’s life through you, especially when people in your family, there’s doctrinal differences regarding Genesis 3 or the total depravity of man.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I wouldn’t have gotten that out of your first five minutes of presenting your thoughts. Okay, so how do you know if you’re called to preach or just be a Christian? And you say especially in view of having families, members that have a different view of some things. Well, I’m not sure that having family members that agree or disagree is relevant to the question of being called to preach, because if you’re called to preach, you do it, and you don’t have to wait for permission from family members or anyone else to agree with you. You do what God said. But it sounds to me like once you got down to giving a question, it was how do you know if you’re called to preach or not? And I believe that we are all called to promote the kingdom of God in any way that God gifts us to do. Now, preaching is a specific kind of gifting to, that’s what evangelists do. They go out and they evangelize. They preach to, you know, maybe to multitudes, maybe to, you know, smaller crowds, but they’re They’re preaching the gospel. They’re evangelizing. That’s what preaching is in the Bible. Now, there’s other kinds of presentations to groups. You might be called to teach or called to exhort or called to comfort. There’s lots of different gifts. Paul lists these different gifts in Romans 12, I think starting around verse 7. For several verses on, maybe through about verse 12, I’m thinking, And there’s other gifts that are mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12. And so each person has a gift from God and a calling to use that gift for the kingdom’s sake. Not all are called to preach. Not all have the ability to preach. Not all are qualified to preach. Not all even understand the gospel well enough to preach it. I’ve found even amongst some evangelists. But so… I’m going to have to just say, the way you know what you’re called to do is, I’ll give you a few tests for this. First of all, what do you feel strongly urging yourself to do? Paul said, woe is me if I don’t preach the gospel. Jeremiah said, I decided I wouldn’t speak anymore in the name of the Lord, but then his word was like a fire burning within me and I couldn’t keep it to myself. I mean, if you’re called to preach, I think it’s going to be burning in you. And I don’t know that there’s many people who’d be able to hold you back. I mean, they can put you in jail or they can kill you, but they can’t really stop you from preaching. Paul was that way. So, I mean, if you’ve got that kind of drive, then that’s one thing. Another thing would be if when you do share the gospel with people, whether it seems to be, Does his word return void from your mouth? I mean, Paul, when he preached to the Thessalonians, he said he was so happy about it because he could tell that they were really saved because he said the gospel came to you not in word only, but also in much conviction and power of the Holy Spirit. He said that, I believe, in 1 Thessalonians 1. Let’s see here. Yeah, in verse 5. He says, in verses 4 and 5, 1 Thessalonians 1, he says, So he’s saying, when we preach to you, apparently Paul had known the… Otherwise, in some circumstances, the gospel didn’t have this kind of impact. He said, in your case, it didn’t come just in words. It’s not just that I spoke words to you and that was it. But it came with words that were accompanied by the power and assurance of the Holy Spirit. There was an anointing on the preaching of the gospel that impacted and cut them to their heart and caused them to, he says, to embrace Christ in the midst of persecution and sufferings. So… You know, I would say if a person thinks they’re a preacher, but no one gets saved when they preach, maybe they should look for a different calling. And the best way to know what your gift is, I think, is to just live naturally as you walk in the Holy Spirit, and God will lead you in different ways and do things through you. And others will probably tell you what your gift is. But, you know, even if you’re not articulate and can’t speak well and maybe not called to be a public preacher, your life can preach. You can simply be available to, as it says in 1 Peter 3.15, that you can be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks you. Even if you’re not speaking to a coliseum full of people and preaching the gospel or even a church, you know, you can talk about the Lord to anybody who brings it up with you. That’s what Peter said. So, you know, I would think that if a person is really called to preach, they will know it because they won’t be satisfied with anything less. I know… I know that I was called to ministry. I’m not a preacher. I’m a teacher. I mean, I don’t do a lot of preaching, but I am occupied a lot with teaching. I wouldn’t be satisfied doing much of anything else. I mean, if God required me to do something else, I’d be content with his will. But, I mean, just given my own inclinations, I would not be satisfied. I would not feel satisfied to be not sharing the word of God with people. But some people are, and I think they probably have a different calling or a different gifting. So there’s not just one way you can tell, but I would say just walk with God, walk in the Spirit, be filled with the Spirit, and see what he uses you for. If he uses you in preaching, then that’s a good thing. Then maybe you’re called to preach. Okay, Patty in Carmichael, California. Welcome to the Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 12 :
Hi, Steve. This is a question I heard them talking on my Christian radio station.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, hold on. I’m going to have to put you on hold because you can hear the music.
SPEAKER 12 :
It’s time for the break.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s time for the break, but I’ve got another half hour coming up after the break, so I’m going to put you on hold and come right back to you after the break. Okay, good. You’re listening to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. We’re only halfway through. We’ve got another half hour. We’d like to let you know that The Narrow Path is a listener-supported ministry. And if you’d like to help us pay the radio bills, I just approved of a couple new stations today, one in Des Moines and one in Boston. And we’re already in Boston, but I think this will be a live broadcast in Boston on another station. Anyway, we keep adding. I don’t know, we’ve got 80-something stations across the country, and they cost a lot of money. If you’d like to help us, you can write to The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California. Or go to the website thenarrowpath.com. I’ll be back in 30 seconds. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 01 :
Small is the gate and narrow is the path that leads to life. We’re proud to welcome you to The Narrow Path with Steve Gregg. Steve has nothing to sell you today but everything to give you. When today’s radio show is over, we invite you to visit thenarrowpath.com. where you’ll find topical audio teachings, blog articles, verse-by-verse teachings, and the archives of all the radio shows. Study, learn, and enjoy. We thank you for supporting the listener-supported Narrow Path with Steve Gregg.
SPEAKER 05 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for another half hour, taking your calls. And if you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith, or you have some matter upon which you disagree with the host and want to talk about that, we welcome your call. The number that reaches here is 844-484-5737. That’s 844- That’s 484-5737. And I might just say, we don’t say this often enough, and I can tell that sometimes we ought to. If you call in, and let’s say when you call in you’ll be put on hold briefly or at length, depending on how many callers are ahead of you. But while you’re on hold or before you even call, think of what your question is. In other words, don’t wait for me to put you on the air and then you start trying to figure out what your question is. You know, it takes a long time. You might want to write it down for yourself. I mean, write it down and read it. I’ll tell you what, we pay radio stations, it’s about $100 a minute we’re paying to be on all the stations we’re on. So if you take a minute or two, you know, to even get your question out of your mouth, well, then it’s cost $200 of donors money. And maybe you think it’s worth it. In many cases, when people take that much time, it’s only because they’re not sure what they want to say. So try to be efficient in the use of time. And, by the way, if you’re on hold, stay on your phone. If you leave the phone and listen to the radio, When I call your name and you hear it on the radio, I will have already been calling you for about 30 seconds on the air, and you probably will be hung up on before you get back to your phone. So when you’re on hold, stay with your phone, please. All right. Let’s talk to Patty from Carmichael, who called just before our break, and I put her on hold there. Hi, Patty. Welcome.
SPEAKER 12 :
Hi, Steve. Thanks for your time. I got a quick question. Can you tell me what in the world is a Eucharist?
SPEAKER 05 :
The word Eucharist is a Greek word that means Thanksgiving. And it’s the word that is used in some of the church fathers’ writings, and it certainly is used by, say, Roman Catholics regularly to speak of what Protestants might call the Lord’s Supper or communion, what we call communion. And so that’s what it’s just a name for. But again, it’s usually associated with Roman Catholics. I mean, that is the language, the word Eucharist, because Protestants often use a different term. But it’s the same. We’re talking about the same thing. Although, of course, it means something different to the Catholics than it does to most Protestants, because the Catholics believe. that the bread and the wine actually turn into the body and blood of Jesus, where Protestants generally don’t believe that. But that’s true. They actually believe that. But, yeah, Eucharist is just the word they use. It literally means Thanksgiving, but it’s a term that the early church actually used for taking that wine and that bread in a ceremony in church.
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, they were doing the thing about the Catholic Church on all of three ministries, and I just didn’t know what they were talking about. So thank you for your answer. I appreciate it, and God bless.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right, Patty. Thanks for your call. Carrie from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is next. Hi, Carrie. Welcome.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hi, Steve. This is Terry, actually.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, Terry. Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, yes. Thank you for your ministry. God bless you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, my question is I’ve become aware that there are a large number of people in churches or Christians that also belong to secret societies. I don’t know how they reconcile that with their Christianity, but I wanted to hear what your thoughts are on that. Okay. You know, I’ve seen from scriptures that I’ve seen, there’s plenty of scripture that would, in my mind, discourage that. But, you know, I haven’t heard anybody with scripture to, you know, to say that that’s okay.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, so when you say secret societies, are you talking about the Freemasons or some other?
SPEAKER 02 :
I’m talking about Freemasons. I’m talking about Greek letter organizations as well.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right. All right. Well, how do I feel about that? I… I don’t believe that those societies are operating in the name of Jesus. Now, that doesn’t mean they’re doing bad things, but they might be. I’ve heard Christians who say some very bad things about what the Masons stand for. For example, I’ve heard that if you get high enough in the Masons that you suddenly discover that it’s what they would say a Luciferian organization, by which they mean devil worshiping. But then on the other hand, I’ve known of Christian pastors, I mean, I don’t know them personally, but I’ve heard people talk about them, who are high up in the Masons and don’t seem to see any conflict between that and their Christian commitment. So I’ve never been in the Masons, I would never have joined them, or any other group of people who aren’t specifically Christian. I know there are Christians in the Masons, there are Christians in some of the other organizations, but You know, Paul said in 2 Corinthians 6 that we should not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. And the way I understand the meaning of that is being yoked together is like what you do with two animals pulling a plow or pulling a cart. You put a yoke over their necks, two cows, two mules maybe, and they’re yoked so that their strength is harnessed. to do a job. So they’re working together. They’re partners. They can’t get away from each other. The success of one is directly enhanced or inhibited by the working of the other because the yoke binds them closely together. The Old Testament says don’t plow with an ox and an ass together. Yoking them together would not be a wise thing because they wouldn’t Well, there’s different reasons for it that I won’t get into. But the point is, when Paul said we should not be yoked unequally together with unbelievers, most people apply that to marriage, and they should. They should. Although Paul doesn’t give that particular example, marriage would certainly be an example of being yoked together with somebody. And Christians are not supposed to marry non-Christians. But it’s not the only kind of yoking. If you are, let’s just say, laboring as a team or with a club or with a society that to do some kind of even a good work. Some of these, like the Masons, they are also service organizations, and sometimes they do good works. And that may be a reason that some Christians say, I feel comfortable being in this group because we’re doing good things for people. We’re helping people get glasses and things like that that they need. Well, it may be. It may be that they’re doing good works. I’m not going to deny that. But I think that Christians, if they’re doing good works in partnership with other people, should be doing it in partnership with Christians, because otherwise we’re not doing it in the name of Jesus. I mean, I might be, if I’m a Mason… And I’m involved in the projects that the Masons are doing. And they say they’re good works. And the Masons get the credit for it. But Jesus doesn’t because the Masons are not specifically a Christian organization. They’re not doing their work in the name of Christ. Now, an individual Christian who would be in the organization might feel like he is, but he’s doing a work with a group that’s not going to give the glory to Christ. And, you know, the Bible makes it very clear. Paul said in Colossians, I think it’s 317, he said, whatever you do in word or indeed do all in the name, of the Lord Jesus. And I think that if we’re going to work as a team with people to do good works, that work should be done in the name of Jesus. That is, it should be recognized this is the body of Christ following their Master Jesus. doing his works, exhibiting his, you know, his purposes and his priorities in what we’re doing. Whereas the Masons, even if there’s, and I know there are Christians who’ve joined them. I’m not sure why, but, I mean, there are. the Masons are doing nothing in the name of Jesus. They’re doing it in the name of the Masons. So I wouldn’t really join any service organization, whether it seemed to me it had sinister aspects or not. Even if an organization had no sinister aspects reported about it at all, if it’s not a Christian organization doing things in the name of Christ, I would save my energies to work with Christians so that Christ might get the name recognition for what he’s done or for what’s being done in his name. So that’d be my thoughts about it. I don’t really know why a person who really wants to glorify Christ and everything would join up with groups that are mixed Christians and non-Christians and which do not act, therefore, corporately in the name of Christ. It’s just my conviction. Yeah, thank you, brother. Let’s talk to David from Portland, Oregon. David, welcome.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, hi. Thank you. Reading in about the Exodus and then the ordination of the Aaron and his sons, they had to sacrifice animals, and there was bulls, there’s rams, sheep, and it made me think, were there a lot of animals on the Exodus? It seems like there’s They have all these animals they have to sacrifice to. What do you think, how many animals did they have? Did they have a lot of animals that was on the Exodus?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, you know, we do have a census taken of the Israelis from each of the 12 tribes, and we know the number of them, but they didn’t take a census of their cows and goats and things like that, so we don’t have any idea about the numbers of those. But there were apparently plenty of them. Actually, when the tabernacle was erected in the wilderness, they slew a lot of animals. They sacrificed a lot of animals at the dedication ceremony. So, yeah, they apparently had a lot of animals with them. Where did they get them? Well, the Bible says that when Israel was fleeing from Egypt, actually when they were first released and before they’d gotten away, that God told them to ask for stuff from the Egyptians. and they gave them stuff because they were eager to get rid of them. The ten plagues had kind of caused the Egyptians to be ready to be rid of the Israelites, and so they were glad to pay them off to leave. Now, but even before that, even before the ten plagues, the Israelites had cattle because we know that some of the plagues of Egypt before they were released affected the cattle of Pharaoh, but it didn’t affect the cattle of the Israelites, we’re told. Uh, so we know that the Israelites, even as slaves had cattle and I’m not really sure how, you know, what the arrangement was with that. I mean, uh, we know they brought a lot of cattle into Egypt by cattle. I’m thinking more of sheep and goats, but cause they were called cattle too in the Bible, but apparently bullocks and bulls and things like that too. So it would appear that the Israelites had their own flocks and their own herds, uh, And then, of course, as they were leaving, they asked the Egyptians to give them stuff, too, and they did. So we don’t know exactly all the stuff that they took with them when they left, but they weren’t leaving empty-handed. They had a lot of animals with them. They had silver and gold given to them, which they used in making the tabernacle, for example. And jewels. Jewels were given to them by the Egyptians because those were later used in the high priest’s outfit, his robes. Breastplate on his chest and things on his shoulders were gems. So, yeah, cattle and other wealth was given to them as they were leaving. And they had some of it even before they left, even in their state of slaves, they did. Okay, well, thank you. All right, well, thank you for your call, David. Kay from Mesa, Arizona, welcome. Welcome.
SPEAKER 11 :
Hello. Hi. This is Kay from the Tempe, Mesa, Arizona area. Mr. Gregg, I want to thank you so much for blessing us with all of your blessings and all the fruits of the Spirit you so graciously share with us. And I have a question for you since I’m not online and don’t have any of those capacities. I did catch you mention that you were going to be in Arizona.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 11 :
And stop still on Sunday, I thought, the 30th?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, that’s correct, on Sunday, yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
Where and what time would that be? I’d love to be able to meet other Christians.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. Well, I’m going to be on Sunday, this coming Sunday, I’m going to be speaking in a church in the morning, and then in the afternoon, I think I’m speaking two more times, same location, in the afternoon, so about three times on the same day, 10 o’clock. in the morning for church, and then the other teachings would be between 4 and 7 p.m. And that’s at a place called Chapel at Raining Grace Ranch. This is actually a cowboy church, and they meet outside at a ranch. They meet outside, and I think it’s kind of a large group, but I don’t know. I’ve never been there before. Chapel at Raining Grace Ranch, and they’re in Rio Verde.
SPEAKER 11 :
Rio Verde.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, Raining of… Raining, of course, is R-E-I-G-N-I-N-E, like a king’s ring, yeah. Chapel at Raining Grace Ranch. The address, I’ll give it to you right now if you want to write it down.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
28614 North 172. I don’t know if that’s Highway 172 or whatever.
SPEAKER 04 :
And that’s in Rio Verde.
SPEAKER 11 :
Rio Verde. Did you mention something also about a Scottsdale location?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, that’s right next to Scottsdale. When we list it, we name the larger town nearby so people are more familiar.
SPEAKER 11 :
And might I quickly and briefly ask you other places that you might be visiting in Arizona, in and around the Phoenix area in that time?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. Tucson on Thursday. That’s pretty far, yeah. Maricopa on Friday is also pretty far. Goodyear. Oh, that one is not open to the public, I think.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 05 :
Peoria. There’s one in Peoria at Grace Fellowship Church in Peoria.
SPEAKER 10 :
Grace Fellowship.
SPEAKER 05 :
And there’s one in Buckeye, which I think that’s in a home. Yeah, you know, what you can do is, even on your phone, do you have a smart phone? No, I don’t.
SPEAKER 11 :
I have a hardwired cordless phone. Nothing. I’m still one of those abuelitas, Grandma, you know. I don’t have all the up things yet.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. Well, if you have any, you know, grandchildren or children over, let’s say, seven years old, they can find this for you online. Maybe over five years old would do. But, you know, you probably have a lot of friends who have smartphones or Internet. If you have them look out for you on thenarrowpath.com under announcements, it has all the locations.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate your help. Thank you for taking the time to explain that. And you are one of the most amazing men that I have heard with such gifts of the Spirit. And that patience does radiate to all of us. So thank you for blessing us with that. Take care. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you for saying so. God bless you. All right.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 05 :
Bye now. All right. Another Arizona caller, Douglas in Phoenix, is calling next. Hello, Douglas. Welcome.
SPEAKER 09 :
Hi, Steve. Thank you for taking my call. I… I wanted to ask you about where the idea that the baptism replaces circumcision as the sign of the covenant, because I can’t find that anywhere in the New Testament, and it definitely talks about disregarding outward signs like that in favor of inward reality, and if I remember correctly, even the Old Testament Jews would baptize proselytes as an outward sign of joining the Jewish congregation.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. Well, as far as the Jews baptizing Gentile proselytes who were being converted to Judaism, that was apparently taking place around the time of Christ. It’s not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course, the Old Testament closes 400 years before Christ. And we do not know that the Jews in Old Testament times were baptizing proselytes when they were converted. But We do have evidence that in the first or second centuries, at least, around the time of Christ and just after, that Jews did baptize proselytes. And, of course, the proselyte would be expected to be circumcised and, in that case, baptized. So they weren’t using baptism as a substitute for circumcision, but for something else. If you ask where in Scripture they find this, I think they read it mistakenly into a verse in Colossians 2. It’s verses 11 and 12. Colossians 2, 11 and 12. In verse 11, Paul says, In him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, buried with him in baptism. in which you also were raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. Now, these are the only verses I’ve ever found in Scripture that mention circumcision and baptism in close proximity to each other. There’s certainly nothing in the Bible that says that baptism is the new circumcision. And Paul doesn’t say that here. He says we have received the circumcision, of Christ, made without hands. Of course, in Romans 2.28 and 29, he said that he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, but he is one who is inwardly. And circumcision is not that which is outward of the flesh, but circumcision of the heart. So Paul, and in Philippians 3.3, Paul says to the Gentile Philippian church that they are the true circumcision, or we are the true circumcision in a spiritual sense. So It’s not as if baptism has replaced circumcision. We still experience circumcision. But spiritual circumcision has replaced physical circumcision. So quite apart from whatever the meaning of baptism may be, circumcision in the Old Testament is a type and a shadow of something in the New. But what it’s a type and shadow of is not baptism, but of spiritual circumcision. And baptism is a physical thing, not a spiritual thing. So when Paul mentions we were circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, he’s clearly talking about a spiritual circumcision, which he calls the circumcision of Christ. And the next verse says we were buried with him in baptism. Now he’s not saying that those are the same two things. He’s simply saying two different things about us. One thing that’s said, we’ve been circumcised with the true circumcision, the true spiritual circumcision. Also, we’ve been baptized, buried with Christ in baptism. So Paul does not make any suggestion at all that baptism is the replacement for circumcision or is the counterpart of it. He simply says there’s two different things. He could list others, perhaps, that Christians have experienced. But one is the spiritual circumcision was the physical water baptism. He doesn’t say that one replaces the other or anything. So I think those who make that case are trying to say they’re making a case for infant baptism because the Jews, of course, circumcised their infants. And no one in the Bible, as far as we know, baptized infants. But those who do baptize infants, they like to say, well, that’s because the Jews circumcised them. And for us, baptism is the counterpart of circumcision. So as they circumcise their infants, we baptize our infants. It’s an argument that doesn’t really have any biblical weight, again, because it’s assuming something the Bible does not imply or state, namely that baptism for the Christian is the counterpart of circumcision in the Old Testament, which obviously is a tradition of man, not a statement of Scripture anywhere.
SPEAKER 09 :
So it’s another case of a tradition seeking a context. Yes.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. It’s a traditional affirmation that is used to justify another tradition, namely a practice of baptizing infants.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay. Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Two traditions. All right. Thank you, brother. God bless. Stan in St. Paul, Minnesota. Welcome to The Narrow Path.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hi, Steve. Hey, thanks for your gentle reminders to folks to be a little more efficient with all of our time. I appreciate that. Hey, with King Hezekiah time… When the remnant was still in what was the kingdom of Israel, but it had been, of course, not that for many years, just before the carrying away, the remaining Israelites of those kingdoms, the ten tribes, they were invited down into Judea, or Judah, to celebrate what the Passover was. as I remember right. I apologize. I didn’t prepare my questions early. Ultimately, my question is, did any of those tribes stay in Judah? I’ve seen some reference to that before, but it’s not strong. Did they get carried away, any of those ten tribes, into Babylon and then maybe return?
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. Now, I’m not sure if any of the people who came to Hezekiah’s Passover, you’re talking about 2 Chronicles 30 here.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. I’m not sure. Now, that’s, of course, I’m trying to figure out the chronology here because it was during Hezekiah’s reign that the northern kingdom was destroyed by the Assyrians. And I’m trying to think of, it looks like Hezekiah’s Passover, which is in 2 Chronicles 30, was prior to the destruction of the northern kingdom, it looks like.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 05 :
I’m not positive about that. It looks like it as I glance through. And so there would be still a northern kingdom these people came down to. Now you’re asking, did they stay down there or did they go back? I’m going to guess that some did each. I think probably some who came down wanted to stay there and did, and some went back. But even prior to that, before almost when the northern kingdom was established under Jeroboam, And he set up golden calves in Bethel and Dan to be the official religion of the northern kingdom. They were devout people from the various ten tribes who relocated to Judah. And this was before Hezekiah’s time. This was way back in Rehoboam’s time. And so there were, maybe not from all ten tribes, I think there’s at least seven different tribes that are noted in various passages in Chronicles where people from those tribes came from the north and resettled down in Judah, in the nation of Judah. And so, you know, there were quite a few of the, what we could call the faithful remnant of the northern kingdom that had already come down before Hezekiah’s time and before the northern kingdom was destroyed. and become part of Judah. Now, therefore, you know, later, over a century later, when Judah went into captivity, these Israelites from the other tribes from the north had been living in Judah all that time and were now part of that, and their children and grandchildren were part of it. And so, yeah, when Judah was taken into captivity, it wasn’t only people from the tribe of Judah. They were people of many tribes. Perhaps all the ten tribes were represented. But, so anyway… They were all called Jews. Now, the word Jew, of course, comes from the word Judah. And the word Jew was never used in the Bible prior to the Babylonian exile. But in the Babylonian exile, those who had been taken into captivity from the nation of Judah were called Jews. And those people who had been in the nation of Judah included Israelis from other tribes. So all Israelis. from the time of the Babylonian exile on were called Jews just as a way of speaking of them. Not because they were all tribal Jews, Judeans, but because they were, you know, geographical national members of the Judean nation. So, yeah, when they came back, there were people from, you know, at least many, if not all tribes. And hundreds of years later, you know, you find Anna in the temple saying, In Luke chapter 2, she’s of the tribe of Asher. And Saul of Tarsus is of the tribe of Benjamin. And there’s some other tribes that are represented. And, of course, there were Levites. So the Jews that came back from Babylon were not all of Judah, but probably mostly of Judah. But there were also a remnant of those from the northern tribes as well.
SPEAKER 06 :
Very good. Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right. Thanks for your call. You’ve been listening to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. We’re on Monday through Friday at the same time. If you’re not a regular listener, well, you can change that. If you’d like to help us stay on the air, you can write to The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. Or you go to our website, thenarrowpath.com.
