Join us as we navigate through the shocking events surrounding Charlie Kirk’s assassination and its ties to broader societal issues. Through candid conversation, the episode examines the corrupted shift from the pro-life movement to an industry driven by money and politics. With insights from past and present, this installment challenges us to prioritize the gospel and reflect on the real cost of contemporary political and social conflicts.
00:00:00 Introduction and Telethon Month Announcement
Welcome back to Real Science Radio for the conclusion of our show on Charlie Kirk. As we move to the memorial and we’ll play a key clip, talk of the gaps left and what every Christian must do next. Also, please don’t forget that it’s telethon month. We would love if you could partner with us to help keep Real Science Radio on the air.
SPEAKER 05 :
Scholars can’t explain it all away.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 1 :
Tune in to Real Science Radio. Turn up the Real Science Radio. Keeping it real.
SPEAKER 03 :
So now here we are, and Charlie Kirk ends up being assassinated during a conversation about the topic of transgenderism.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, and the shooter’s, I guess, boyfriend was transgender.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, and so just real quickly, I want to address that, Fred. I don’t know enough about the killer. The other people who were probably involved with him before the fact, I don’t know enough about his family to make any judgments. Because frankly, Fred, I can’t really trust what I hear in the news and I can’t trust what I see online. And so I’m going to stick with what you and I have talked about, what our prediction about what this kid is or who this kid is. I’m going to stick with that until I’m proven wrong. I’ve heard a number of things about the family that I really don’t know. I know a lot of people think that the FBI is covering things up and lying about things. Is that true? Probably. That’s what the FBI has been doing for 50, 60, 70 years. They’ve been covering stuff up and lying about stuff. The justice system… has forged a law enforcement community that has to lie and make stuff up professionally in order to get things through court, in order to put some… Anyway, it’s all just a mess. So to think that there’s a deep state conspiracy or an FBI or CIA conspiracy that’s actually behind all this, when it’s more than likely you’re just seeing the product of the justice system that has produced… which naturally produces lies. And there’s a lot of stuff the FBI doesn’t know. Not just lies, Fred, incompetence. incompetence in law enforcement and the justice system means that yeah they make stuff up and they lie and they try to fill in the gaps when they’ve missed something so that doesn’t mean there was a conspiracy i don’t know fred i haven’t heard yet that donald trump is behind the assassination but i’m sure that’s coming yeah i’m sure yeah right i’m sure that’s coming i have heard from the left that the whole remembrance, the celebration of Charlie Kirk’s life, the memorial that just occurred last week, last Sunday, two Sundays ago, anyway, recently, the memorial that occurred, I’ve already heard on the left from the crazies that this is all too well done. It’s as if they pre-packaged this. It’s as if they were ready for this. And they’re trying to imply that there was some kind of conspiracy and that Charlie Kirk was like a sacrificial… Anyway, the fact is, unfortunately, the assassination of Charlie Kirk… was custom made for the pro-family industry. And so I don’t want to offend my conservative friends, but Bob Enyart used to talk about the pro-life industry. Back in the 70s, there was a pro-life movement that wanted to end abortion. And that movement became corrupted by lawyers and businessmen and salesmen. Turned into the pro-life industry that it turned into a fundraising operation for the Republican Party based on the premise of Being pro-life and it ended up electing Republicans and regulating the murder of innocent people on the money of Christians That that’s basically what happened with the it became an industry rather than a movement well in America I’ve witnessed from the 90s to now a pro-family industry They make their living raising money off Christians by talking about Christian issues surrounding the family. And then they elect Republicans and they regulate the destruction of the family. That’s the pro-family industry. And Charlie Kirk was early on in his career as a very young man, by the way, Fred, in his early 20s. So I’m just going to say it, okay? I have some things that I’ve prepared. So Charlie Kirk’s assassination was the most shocking assassination, the most saddest, most reprehensible, most shocking assassination ever. In my lifetime, certainly in modern American history, I actually gasped out loud, Fred, when I heard. My brother called me on the phone, having just watched the video, and I gasped out loud when I heard it. It was that shocking. And I didn’t see it, I heard it. And I gasped like it was a friend of mine. Fred, I just had a friend of mine die unexpectedly, Gordon Carroll. I knew him for more than 25 years, and I know he’s with the Lord. I heard him preach the gospel. But when I heard that Gordon Carroll died, I gasped, too. And by the way, I just want to say Gordon Carroll was a big behind-the-scenes helper in establishing Real Science Radio and KGOV and Denver Bible Church. Gordon was a cop in Colorado, so always behind the scenes. But he went from being a virulent, anti-Christian, atheist advocate. He went from that to being the exact opposite. A warrior for Jesus Christ. In no small part because of Bob Enyart’s ministry. And so Gordon was always essential help behind the scene. He’ll be greatly missed. And I hope he’s listening. I know that a lot of his family and friends still listen on the radio in Denver. And so if you’re listening, my prayers are with you. God’s grace and peace be with you all because I know you’re suffering. But Fred, hearing that Gordon died was a lot like hearing Charlie Kirk had been assassinated. I gasped out loud. It was that shocking. But I didn’t know Charlie. I know he cut his teeth doing debate like Bob and… other men like Daniel Hedrick, who we have on the show, and even me, to some degree, back when I was Charlie Kirk’s age, I used to go, we, Bob and Daniel and I, we would go into the lion’s den. We would go to a secular festival and set up a booth, and we would debate the cultural topics of the day in order to try to raise the topic of Jesus Christ. And Charlie Kirk… He went into the lion’s den unarmed.
SPEAKER 02 :
We did a show on one of his debates with an atheist. We have a real science radio show back that, I don’t know, about six months ago. He did a really good job at the time. We pointed out a few things that we would have added, which is always easy to do, armchair after the fact. There’s plenty of debates I’ve been in. It’s like, oh, man, I wish I would have thought of that at this particular point. He’s definitely had a huge influence. He was all over YouTube. It was definitely shocking. I did want to talk about the memorial event. So, Doug, we’re not going to get to the latest headline news, and that’s okay. But I don’t want to skip our interesting fact of the week, and then we’ll close the show out with maybe a few more comments on the Charlie Kirk assassination and the memorial that was held. Okay. All right, so are you ready for the interesting fact of the week? I’m never ready, Fred, but you do it anyway. Here is the interesting fact of the week. Why did the Metropolitan Transit Authority dump old city subway cars into the Atlantic Ocean?
SPEAKER 03 :
I didn’t know they did that. Was that allowed?
SPEAKER 02 :
That was allowed. They did actually do this.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And so MTA, if I’m not mistaken, that’s New York, New Jersey. Is that right?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. Yep.
SPEAKER 03 :
Why would MTA put old subway cars in the ocean? Was it to form pylons for the windmills that are being built by the leftist maniacs offshore there?
SPEAKER 02 :
I like that answer though. That good answer. I can’t think of another reason. Well, they did it to create artificial reefs.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, that’s well, that’s brilliant.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. And I guess it worked, you know, I haven’t looked in that in a while. Um, but yeah, so that’s why they dumped the old city subway cars.
SPEAKER 03 :
So that’s awesome. So we take a bunch of junk. that we’re going to pollute and we’ve been polluting nature and destroying mother earth with it for 70 years now what are we going to do with our junk let’s throw it back in the ocean and it turns out that it it all goes back to the dust of the ground it turns back into something that that uh the earth can use and the fish can use that’s pretty cool i like that i don’t know if it’s an area you can scuba dive but yeah that’s what they did so oh i don’t know if i’d want to be scuba diving off new jersey seems risky but
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, so Doug, you know, on Charlie Kirk’s Memorial, I did not get a chance to watch it again. This was during, you know, I was super busy at the time. But I saw some clips of it, and, you know, I thought that overall… For me personally, overall, it was a positive. I know there’s different ways to look at it. The gospel was preached at least once, I thought, and I wanted to get your opinion on that. When things like this happen, I know one of our local churches is run by a conservative pastor, and I believe it’s a pretty solid church overall. They had 2,000 extra people show up after that assassination, and the lead pastor said, apologize for not being there. He said, I made a big mistake. And then the next week he gave a really pretty moving sermon on the whole affair. And that was Flatirons Church and Pastor Jim, if people want to go listen to that. Anyways, I wanted to get your take because you’ve always got a really good, you know, you’re really good with theology and you’ve got interesting inside these little tidbits that people don’t think of. Everybody usually looks at something like big picture. Oh, that was really great. And I do think that God does use moments. He doesn’t create evil. We’re not a Calvinist show. Sorry to our Calvinist listeners. We don’t believe that God ordained this guy to go shoot Charlie Kirk. To bring about a better good. But God can take evil and bring about a greater good, if you think of Joseph in Genesis, about how God turned this into good. And I wanted to get your perspective on that and the memorial overall. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, so any insight that I have, Fred, only comes from studying the Bible. If you study the Bible, you will be head and shoulders above all of your competition, and you’ll be one step ahead of everyone who does not. Study the Bible.
SPEAKER 02 :
That was one of the things that Charlie Kirk did say, the first thing you should always do is read the Bible. Number one.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’ve tried to make that a habit myself. First thing in the morning, as soon as I can clear the sleep out of my eyes and see clearly enough, is to read the Bible. Yeah, and… Not just any part of the Bible. Be reading the Bible in some logical fashion. Don’t just drop the Bible open and read a verse and think that’s going to help. Although that’s better than tuning in Howard Stern in the morning. But the memorial and the gospel. So, Fred, everybody thinks about Jesus when somebody dies. Unbelievers, atheists… Everyone thinks about God when they hear somebody died. That’s the first thing they think about. The reason Charlie Kirk’s Christian testimony took front and center in the moments after he died and has remained front and center since he was assassinated is because that’s what everyone thinks about when somebody dies is God. Preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ was not front and center in Charlie Kirk’s ministry. And I’m sorry to say that, and if that offends you, well, just go back and look at the tape. I’ve been guilty of it myself, Fred. Preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ has not always been front and center in what I’ve done for the ministry over the years. But everyone now thinks it was because of his untimely shocking death. What stands out about what Charlie Kirk was doing? Well, the only thing that really mattered was when he talked about Jesus Christ. Charlie Kirk’s opinion on whether or not transgendered people should be allowed to own weapons doesn’t matter. It might have mattered to Charlie and some guy he was talking with about it at a college campus for five seconds, but it doesn’t really matter. What really mattered was the times Charlie Kirk spoke the name of Jesus Christ, or if Charlie Kirk did preach the gospel, and I would assume he has somewhere over the years, that’s what really matters. And so that’s what we all remember. And that is a great legacy for all of us to attain to and something that we should all be reminded of. And the memorial, Fred, brought that into my mind because The memorial, the gospel, was mentioned almost as many times as the name of God and the name of Jesus Christ. Almost as many times. But only one person actually said it as far as I know. I’ve gone back through as much of the… I didn’t actually watch it, but I’ve gone back through the reportage on all the speakers. As far as the headliners, Fred, during the evening… Frank Turek came the closest to preaching the gospel when he said that Charlie wasn’t in heaven because he was a great dad. Charlie wasn’t in heaven because he was a great organizer for TPUSA. Charlie Kirk is in heaven because Jesus died for him. Frank Turek said that. Frank’s been on Real Science Radio before. He came the closest.
SPEAKER 02 :
Has he really been on Real Science Radio?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. Yeah, Bob interviewed him eight, ten years ago.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah. Frank has been on. We’ve referred to Frank a number of times. But even Frank, for whatever reason, was reserved. And I want to encourage everyone out there, let’s stop with that being reserved. And I’ll get to that. So I didn’t follow Charlie Kirk because Charlie Kirk was getting into politics at a time when I was… kind of getting out of politics. I had already been through that whole thing, and I was getting more into doctrine, theology, and the Bible. But I hope the earthly legacy we pick up from seeing Charlie so shockingly and publicly killed… is that arguing politics is really of no value unless it leads to the gospel. The whole gospel. And the whole gospel, Fred, means not just mentioning God, not just mentioning Jesus like the politicians and a lot of preachers do. They mention God and Jesus a lot. But there’s something they don’t mention and it’s something Bob Enyart used to say. He used to say that every political problem in America that we’re talking about right now is caused by someone sinning. someone’s sin leads to the cultural problems we’re talking about right now. And Bob, by the way, he was paraphrasing the Bible. Bob lifted almost all of his material from the Bible. People think he was some kind of genius, but it’s just because he read the Bible and studied it a lot.
SPEAKER 02 :
I think it’s okay. That’s one thing to plagiarize. If you’re going to plagiarize anything, you plagiarize the Bible.
SPEAKER 03 :
Amen. Amen. And we always give credit where credit is due. Bob was paraphrasing Proverbs 13, 10. Only by pride cometh contention, but with the well-advised wisdom. Every problem we have, every contention over adultery, homosexuality, transgenderism, gun control, socialism, I mean, pick it. They come from pride, which is the original sin. And Bob preached it. Bob preached that solving the sin problem will solve the cultural and political problems. And solving the sin problem ends all the arguments. But Fred, here’s the thing that the memorial brought to my mind. If we want to solve these problems, because we can argue about them, and the pro-life industry has proven that we can rake in a lot of money… and donate it to political parties and win elections and become famous and we can have balls before the inauguration of the person we elect. We can do all that. But that’s not preaching the gospel. I know everybody thinks that Charlie Kirk was preaching the gospel, but that’s only because he died and that’s what you’re thinking about. But that’s not what he was doing. Charlie Kirk was co-opted as a very young man by the pro-family industry. And the pro-family industry has forgotten it’s only when we preach Christ to forgive our sins. That’s the gospel. It’s not when we win an argument with a liberal because that just makes them mad. When you win an argument with a liberal, that just makes them mad. And they can be vicious when they’re mad. Right? We’ve seen that.
SPEAKER 02 :
Isn’t that the truth? Yeah. Yeah. They get mad.
SPEAKER 03 :
But it’s really when each one of us asks for forgiveness for our sins and trusts the gospel. By the way, I’m going to say it. What’s the gospel? Well, there’s a God. I’m not Him. I’m a sinner. I need God to forgive my sins. And I trust Jesus Christ to do it because he died and he proved he can do it. He died and rose again from the dead. That’s the gospel. If you don’t know that, well, you just heard it and now you know it. And if you believe that, all the problems in the world… Starting with transgenderism, going all the way back. All those problems will take a back seat to that belief. And if we all believe that, then we’d actually have peace. But Fred, when we just talk about God and Jesus and the gospel and forgiveness without that pointed call to each of us regarding our own sin, that’s the hardest part of the gospel is telling someone they’re a sinner because it makes you seem self-righteous and selfish But I’m sorry, God gave us a model in the Bible of what is effective. Fred, he gave us the model with the Apostle Paul. The first thing God did with the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus was he said, Saul, Saul. He called his name twice. So what was God doing? God was revealing himself undeniably to Saul of Tarsus, right there on the road to Damascus. Just like God has revealed himself to everyone undeniably with the creation. Yeah. So that’s the first thing. God demanded that Saul acknowledge that he exists. Saul already believed in God. Saul already believed in Genesis. But he was a sinner. So what’s the next thing God… So the first thing God did was announce there’s a God. The second thing God did was he immediately brought up Saul’s sin. He said, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? You’re a sinner. And what Saul at that moment had a choice. He could rebel and kick against the pricks, as it says in the Bible. It’s hard for you, Paul, isn’t it, to kick against the pricks, Jesus said. That was Jesus telling him, I’m bringing your sin, I’m putting it right in your face. Are you going to kick against it or what? And thank God, Saul of Tarsus, He confessed. He said, I’m a sinner. And God was able to use him, obviously, to preach the gospel. But that’s the part, Fred, that’s been missing in the adulation of the legacy of Charlie Kirk, which I want to help form. Because every Christian… We all have a claim on the gospel. We all have a responsibility and a claim. So whatever Charlie Kirk’s assassination can do to forward the gospel, I have every right and obligation to make a contribution to that. And Fred, if you don’t point people to their sin with the gospel, then it’s really, that’s just all talk. The gospel involves… Your sin, my sin, that it has to. And the politicians and the preachers who are part of what I call the pro-family industry, who, in my opinion, are the ravening wolves who are right now turning Charlie Kirk’s legacy into nothing but talk and a lot of fundraising and politicking, they need to be held to that. And they need to be reminded that the Jesus Christ that Charlie Kirk publicly proclaimed… Demands that we preach the gospel, including not just that Jesus loves you, not just that Jesus died for you. Because I don’t know if I’ve said this, Fred, if you say that to a prideful man, Jesus loves you and he died for you. What does pride do? It says, well, sure, Jesus loves me. I’m a pretty good guy. I do good. I’m a good guy. Jesus died for me. I’m not surprised. I’m a good guy. He probably wants to be with me. But you can’t give a sinner, a prideful sinner, if you don’t call to his attention his own sin, you’re only telling him half the story and his pride might sabotage his salvation. So we’ve got to do that. I hope that there’s someone at TPUSA with the wisdom to remember that if you leave out the sin, that’s not the gospel. And other than that, Fred, I’ll just say God bless Charlie Kirk’s wife and his children and his family and his friends and everyone else who’s been traumatized and who’s suffering through just this awful, horrible event. Fred, I want to thank you again at the top. You said… God does not ordain evil, but God can use any evil. No matter how horrible, God can use it for something good.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, yep. Yeah, you think of the ministry. I mean, there’s so many cases in history that we don’t know about of somebody dying that was standing preaching the gospel. You know, there’s that story of those guys in Ecuador. They’ve been training for ministry their whole lives. They go there and they’re, you know, within, I don’t know, a couple of days. I’m probably getting the facts a little bit wrong, but they were killed by spears. But it started a whole other movement, and a lot of those people in that tribe became Christians, turned their lives over to Christ. So this hopefully will turn the tide. We’ll see. The spiritual warfare is overwhelming. We don’t fight against flesh and blood, but against basically the darkness, you know, spiritual warfare. And you touch on some really good points. The Bible says that the law is perfect for converting the soul. And if you leave that part out, how are they going to recognize their sin if you’re just telling them, like you said, God loves you? Or that if you forgive somebody and they’re not repentant, well, then what’s the use of the law to convert their soul? Oh, Fred, so the…
SPEAKER 03 :
The fact that you said that, Fred, I don’t know when it’s appropriate to criticize Erica Kirk. I don’t know. And if I’m offending, it’s an occupational hazard. But for her to forgive that young man before he’s had an opportunity for repentance. I mean, Fred, what do you make of that?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, and it’s hard to be tactful for something like that because we both just feel so devastated for such a wonderful woman and wife with their two kids.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
But, you know, those are one of those things. It’s moments like these. You know, all we can do is speak the truth. And, you know, man, I sure have my faults. And like you, you know, pride’s always been one of my problems. But if we communicate to that young man that, oh, it’s okay. Basically, it’s, you know, I forgive you. The guy’s, how do you know he’s repentant from it? And the Bible says, forgive a person seven times, 70 times. But guess what part people always leave out? Christians, 90%, 95. People listening to this right now, and I’m sure many are offended, but Every word of God is important. Nothing goes void. And you’ve said that very well in the past, Doug. That verse does not say forgive them seven times, 70 times. There’s a part people always forget. If they repent, forgive them seven times, 70 times. That is right in the Bible. We got to be careful. that we don’t mark out that particular part and block it out of our minds because we’ve been taught for so long that forgive no matter what. It’s times like these that I think it’s worth mentioning this. It’s hard to bring it up because it’s difficult to be tactful with somebody who’s as moving and a strong believer as Erica Kirk. But it’s a moment, too, to kind of reflect, say, okay, we got to do what Jesus would do. What does that mean in the Bible? Why would that be there? There’s a reason it’s there. I had one friend say, he referred to, there’s two different places in the Bible where it talks about seven times 70. The second place, and I can’t look it up right now, but one of them doesn’t mention that if he repents. But then it goes into a whole… where the servant is owed money and the king forgives him the debt and then that guy goes and he doesn’t forgive this other guy’s debt. And what did God do to say, oh, I’ll just forgive you for that? No, he threw him in the prison.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Because there wasn’t repentance. There has to be repentance. The law is perfect for converting the soul.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, yes. And we’ve got to remember that. Every verse in the Bible doesn’t have to specifically mention the repentance. If you study the Bible at all for five or ten minutes, the repentance is implied. Everywhere. There has to be repentance. And of course… It’s repentance toward God. That’s the most important repentance, is that you have to repent from a position of not acknowledging that there is a God. You have to repent to change your mind to say there is a God. That’s the first repentance. So if Erica Kirk, and I believe Erica Kirk wants that young man to repent and be saved, I could say… I could hear it in her voice, the way she said it. That’s what she wants. Well, if that’s what she wants, then he needs to be made aware of his sin or he will not have the opportunity to repent and to be saved. Which, by the way, that kid can be saved. Saul of Tarsus was actively participating in the murder of Jesus’ own followers, his own disciples.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. Hey, we’re running out of time in this broadcast, so go to our website to catch the rest of this program, realsignsradio.com.
SPEAKER 05 :
Scholars can’t explain it all away.
SPEAKER 04 :
Get ready to be awed by the handiwork of God.
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Tune into Real Science Radio. Turn up the Real Science Radio. Keeping it real.
